Raw food for pets - BARF diet

[mafiaprincess]

Bravo is currently stateside.. Looked easier to me than feeding 'acutal' raw.

Some kennels will feed bravo and suppliments without a problem though.

[Copper'sMom]

Another question:
Can I just give the dogs their slab of meat without having to cut it up(except trimming excess fat) and let them chew, rip, and tear it up themselves as they would do in the wild?

When they eat RAW soup bones now, they get white, pasty looking poops that appear hard(I haven't actually touched it to see if it is hard!). Is this ok?? I often thought that Copper gets sort of constipated from eating the bones.

Raw eggs or cooked eggs? How many raw eggs - is there such a thing as too much?

What about things like cow tongue, feet of some sort, and other things I've seeen in the grocery store supposedly there for human consumption?? They are usually pretty cheap, and they are in the meat department - are they nutritional in any way??

And RAW hamburger is good for them too?

with my boy (aka mister fragile-gut), he often had diarhhea and mucousy stools, NOW i know it was all MY fault for not feeding him correctly from the beginning (too much variety too soon, too many veggies, too many supplements, etc). with my girl, from day 1 we switched her cold-turkey from cheap kibble to prey-model raw and not ONE single soft poop. no gas. perfection all the way

My boy is the same way but on kibble! Diarhhea happens 2-3 times a week but only once a day - looks just like a cow paddy. Some poops are fine, others are runny. His tummy has always been a little sensitive from time to time. Zoe too, has the occasional cow paddy. And they BOTH have GAS!! Frequently - a daily basis, almost with every movement they make!! LOL

[phoenix]

for the diarrhea, you can try a tbs of pumpkin... the canned kind, pure (not the pie filling). I freeze pumpkin by the tbs so when I need it, I have it. For the gas, I give yogurt every day... the kind with live bacterial cultures seems to work best... with a boxer, I have to, just to be able to cohabitate!

[technodoll]

Copper's mom:

Can I just give the dogs their slab of meat without having to cut it up(except trimming excess fat) and let them chew, rip, and tear it up themselves as they would do in the wild?
...yes that is the best way to feed raw - cleans their teeth, massages their gums, works their jaw, neck & shoulder muscles, gives a good mental work-out... quite satisfying for your little carnivore!

When they eat RAW soup bones now, they get white, pasty looking poops that appear hard(I haven't actually touched it to see if it is hard!). Is this ok?? I often thought that Copper gets sort of constipated from eating the bones.
...too much bone will lead to white, chalkish poops. the prey-model diet recommends no more than 20% edible bone overall, the rest meat & other foods. If you see your dog straining to poop, he's eating too much bone.

Raw eggs or cooked eggs? How many raw eggs - is there such a thing as too much?
...raw is better, some feed frozen in the shell for a refreshing summer treat (peeled or not), some feed lightly scrambled or poached, it all depends on what your dog likes and how much you want to "cook" for him. same thing for quantity: some dogs can't eat more than one egg at a time or they get the runs, others can scarf down 4 or 5. it really is a trial-and-error kinda thing.

What about things like cow tongue, feet of some sort, and other things I've seeen in the grocery store supposedly there for human consumption?? They are usually pretty cheap, and they are in the meat department - are they nutritional in any way??
...absolutely! and the more variety you feed, the better. The "frankenprey" model diet reconstitutes an animal as it would appear in nature, and it's fun to try to recreate that with various animal parts: in a week, you might feed a couple pig's feet (more for recreational chewing than actual meat), a pork butt, some ground beef or whole brisket, some beef heart, a couple chicken legs, some liver, some tongue, some pork ribs, a turkey neck, perhaps some lungs, a few eggs... makes sense eh?

And RAW hamburger is good for them too?
...yes on occasion & make sure it is fresh. any ground meat spoils faster than whole chunks (more surface area for bacteria to play in). i like to mix it with ground green tripe, or some raw eggs, sometimes with yogurt or canned fish for variety & nutrition.

My boy is the same way but on kibble! Diarhhea happens 2-3 times a week but only once a day - looks just like a cow paddy. Some poops are fine, others are runny. His tummy has always been a little sensitive from time to time. Zoe too, has the occasional cow paddy. And they BOTH have GAS!! Frequently - a daily basis, almost with every movement they make!! LOL
...yep, grains give gas, lots of gas... eliminate those grains and almost guaranteed, you will eliminate the digestive problems. when my boy was younger, ANY kibbles gave him dinosaur-sized cow patties, it was frightening how much poop came out of that little body. so, even if he didn't like raw that much, that's what he got to control his tummy. I admit we screwed up often and he suffered for it, looking back at it ho boy, i would have done things very differently and i'm sure he would have had virtually no GI issues (bad mommy).

here are some really good sites to answer many questions you may have:

http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feedraw.htm (look at those skulls!)

Carrie's site, and Carissa's "myths" pages there. Definitely a MUST read site, this one:
http://rawfed.com

Kevin's site is wonderfully illustrative:
http://www.rawfeddogs.net

Sabrina's site:
http://www.geocities.com/havens_home/feed.htm

Sylvie's site:
http://members.home.nl/zuhorn/feeding_raw.htm

Tammy's site:
http://www.members.shaw.ca/tamgarbox...ted_Links.html

[SarahLynn123]

[QUOTE=technodoll]ok so you feed raw, but you're going on vacation and doggy has to be boarded... a simple solution is to purchase a freeze-dried raw diet for these occasions (such as http://www.naturesvariety.com/conten...F596Pvp149EA32) and voila, problem solved.
QUOTE]


Thats crazy! I didnt even know that existed!! I looked for the store locater and nothing in Canada. Do you have to order it in, or is there another brand available that I can find in Canada? Im in Calgary!

Thanks!
Sarah

[technodoll]

sarahlynn, here are some options i found on the web, hope you can get your hands on some of this stuff, looks tasty (for the doggies of course, LOL):

www.thehonestkitchen.com

http://www.preciouspets.org/omas-pride-raw.htm

http://www.stevesrealfood.com/

http://www.animalfood.com/rttinfo.htm#ingredients

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks Technodoll!

OK so I want to make sure Im on the right track here

Shadow weighs 70lbs so 1.5lbs of food a day
Belle weighs 20lbs so 0.5lbs of food a day
Wolf weighs 12lbs so 0.25lbs of food a da

I should start off with chicken for a couple weeks and slowly add variety. (Shadow is very sensitive) I can add some fruits and veggies if they like that, and cottage cheese and yogurt etc. for some variety along with the chicken. Am I doing good so far?

All my dogs eat 3 times a day but that seems to be a bit much if they are on raw, twice a day would be better for convenience and such. Id still like to give them a snack at lunch. What would be a good small snack that would tide them over? Wolf love veggies, Belle loves fruit but Shadow doesn't like either!

Thanks! This is a great thread!

Sarah

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Yuppers, you can start of on chicken on bone for a couple weeks and go from there, adding one new protein at a time and then tiny bits of offal. Trim off extra fat to avoid the runs! A good lunchtime snack would be cottage cheese or yogurt with some canned fish, and/or fruits/veggies or eggs for the ones who like them.
Your amounts sound good. My 68 lbs boxer eats about 1.8 lbs a day but he is very active and not an "easy keeper".

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks Boxer rescue! This does seem to be quite easy. I think the plan is to stock up, look around Calgary to find the best prices and start loading up our spare deep freeze.

I do however have yet another question! What do you give your dogs for treats in between meals? Wouldn't the dog treats from stores digest at a different rate and be not to good for them if they are on the raw diet? Is a couple every now and then OK?

Thanks again
Sarah

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Hmmmm...to be honest I give them regular doggie treats. I don't think that a couple of treats would cause problems, especially if it is not close ot feeding times. I did just buy one of those giant Dick Van Patten's sausage role things, cut it up and zip locked it. I've been using those as treats (it says dog food on the package). I try not to give Dudley anything with carbs in it since he has mast cell cancer and cancer feeds on carbs.

[technodoll]

What do you give your dogs for treats in between meals? Wouldn't the dog treats from stores digest at a different rate and be not to good for them if they are on the raw diet? Is a couple every now and then OK?

being the hippie mom that I am ( ), treats consist of milk-bone cookies, dried apricots, dehydrated liver bits... they,re really not hungry in between meals and if they are, better to see them drool and jump for joy at the sight of dinner rather than a blasé look, LOL! anyways i have weird vampire dogs, they don't often eat breakfast (their choice) and dinner is ignored until 10pm, and even then half is left behind... yet it's 90% of the time mysteriously gone when we get up at 7am!

many people find that after switching their dogs from a kibble -inhaled-in-two-minutes-meal to raw food which offers luxurious long minutes, even hours, of satisfactory chewing, ripping, nibbling etc - they,re not interested in treats that much anymore. hmmm.

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks for all the info! Im sure I will have questions when we start in about a month or so.

Sorry to hear about the cancer:sad: Thats always one of my biggest fears, but I had no idea about the carbs feeding it. Thanks for sharing the info.

Take care
Sarah

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Thanks Sarah Dudley is feeling good and we have had his tumors removed successfully, however these things tend to come back - so we try to do what we can to help prevent this.

[SarahLynn123]

So Im looking around and am wondering what is trim?
http://www.hovenfarms.com/Price%20List.pdf

Its on the bottom under food for pets, and are these decent prices?

Thanks
Sarah

[technodoll]

i've never bought organic meats - too expensive! - so dunno if the pricing is ok... seems a bit high for me. "trim" is leftovers from the human cuts of meat and usually involve plenty of fat, gristle, and tougher parts of meat, although you can get good slabs of meat in there. should not include bone. doggy heaven, LOL! the pricing for mixed organ meats sounds good, specially for organic beef. I'd get that since you don't need very much in the overall diet.

most raw-feeders look for max $1 per pound of food, stock up on those chicken legs when they are on sale for .69/lbs, whole turkeys at $1/lbs is nice, so are bone-in pork roasts at that price... my dogs eat whatever is on sale, LOL!

[SarahLynn123]

Just one last question! When I call up butchers what exactly am I asking for???

I lied, another question, how good are fish heads? I seen bags of them for cheap at the grocery store but not sure how much good stuff they contain.

Thanks again for eneryones help!

Sarah

[technodoll]

Just one last question! When I call up butchers what exactly am I asking for???

I lied, another question, how good are fish heads? I seen bags of them for cheap at the grocery store but not sure how much good stuff they contain.

do not ever say you are shopping for your dog, the butchers will give you stripped bones which are only good for recreational chewing, not part of the diet itself. the key word is "roasts" ask for bone-in roasts of any kind... pork butts, brisket, stewing chunks, etc.

fish heads, if small enough to be consumed, are fine and very rich in all sorts of good nutrients, if they are really big, can be chewed on recreationally. however not all dogs like raw fish, doesn't hurt to try though

[meb999]

you guys make it all seem so simple....if it's so simple, then why the heck am I so scraed to start this diet??
People look at me like I'm a freak when I tell them I'm thinking about switching Buster to raw. My dad says it's all propaganda and will not only make my dog sick, but will give us all salmonella poisoning!
I'm a germ-a-phobe. Maybe I should wait until I can have a fridge just for Buster? And do you weigh all your dogs meals, or do you just eye-ball it?

[technodoll]

And do you weigh all your dogs meals, or do you just eye-ball it?

in the beginning, it's a good idea to get one of those small cheap kitchen scales (mine was $5) to weigh what you feed, and after a bit you will get a feel of what things really weigh and then eye-balling it is the way to go

tell your dad the propaganda is from the petfood companies... dogs don't read nor watch tv, they only know what mother nature equipped them with (teeth, digestive systems and instincts), and what the heck does he think wolves, coyotes, foxes, pumas, any wild carnivore in north america feeds on, anyways? if THEY can do it... so can you!

[Melei'sMom]

I let Melei eat her fill. sometimes she eats quite a bit and others she doesn't eat at all. her weight is great so I let her regulate her intake herself. She is the only dog here so she doesn't protect or hoard and has no problem walking away from the food if she feels full.


as a side note...she had trout today for the first time we went fishing this morning and took her with us. you should have seen her trying to figure out what that thingy was that Dad pulled outta the lake

and she still won't touch her chicken unless I take the skin off.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by meb999

if it's so simple, then why the heck am I so scraed to start this diet??

I know how this feels too! Basically doing anything different, that goes against the grain of mainstream vets is seen as wrong (vaccines, good vs bad kibble, flea/worm preventatives)... I truly hope that it changes soon as more pet owners educate themselves!

Our last dog went RAW after we found out she had cancer. At that point we stopped all chemicals/pesticides from entering her body. The vet thought she would die in weeks. She lived healthily for over 2 years.

When Dodger was a puppy, he couldn't digest the bones (even when they were grinded) so BARF wasn't possibe. Thankfully, now that he's older, he is able to handle raw diet and is so much healthier for it (not that he was totally unhelathy before but he had yeasty ears, lots of tartar/plaque buildup, gas and would often vomit in the mornings - all of which has completely disappeared within days of being on BARF).

I follow the Volhard diet more than anything else - where there is a lot of add-ins to supplement the raw meat/bones. I don't just drop some meaty bones in his bowl - which is why there is more preparation involved for me...It doesn't take ages but depending on what he's getting, anywhere from 5-15minutes. You get really efficient at it when you are preparing it everyday though!

I refuse to feed supermarket meats - I go with the most natural meats as possible. On my last trip to the beef butcher, I got 10lbs of bones (the size of Dodger'd head ), 10lbs liver, 10lbs of heart and 10lbs of kidney for $19.37. My friend also brings me chicken necks/backs from her butcher which is 50lbs for $12. I bought some organic fish the other day, about $5 for 3lbs. My other friend has a small-family farm where I get organic eggs and turkey.

Aside from the meat/bones part, Dodger also gets kelp, oats, millet, buckwheat, fruits, veggies, wheat bran, wheat germ, eggs, garlic, parsley, Kefir, ester-C, cottage cheese, yogurt, apple cider vingar, cod liver oil and safflower oil, brewer's yeats (he doesn't get every single ingredient everyday, some of them depend on the season or how he's been digesting etc...)

[meb999]

I think Buster may have had a bad reaction to a raw bone...
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....708#post248708
I'm a little freaked out, I'm very worried. Anyone else ever have this problem?

[technodoll]

i answered in your other thread... it could be a number of things. the large, naked, weight-bearing bone you gave him to chew on is not considered part of a raw diet (dogs cannot and should not eat those...)... let the vet check him out and let us know ok? good luck!

[Melei'sMom]

We wetn fishing on Sunday and brought home 3 rainbows for Melei. now on wed morning...all 3 are gone! Melei loves trout! I have never seen her eat that much in 1 meal!!

[technodoll]

he heh - melei has good taste
ps: on fish... never feed raw wild salmon unless it has been frozen for a few days first, to kill the salmon-specific parasites that can be bad for the dogs. but this is only for salmon

[Melei'sMom]

Originally Posted by technodoll

he heh - melei has good taste
ps: on fish... never feed raw wild salmon unless it has been frozen for a few days first, to kill the salmon-specific parasites that can be bad for the dogs. but this is only for salmon

That was the only thing I was worried about. good to know that is salmon and not trout. I don't think I could even get fresh salmon here, central Alberta is pretty landlocked lol.

Only problem we have now is finding time to go fishing again! Starting a business doesn't leave much time for recreation.

Melei is adjusting well though. until recently I was a sahm and now I work fulltime plus, but as we own the business and no food is involved, she goes with me everyday.


oops, back on topic...dh is always worried that the fish we catch may have a hook or something in it's mouth or stomach so he still guts and beheads the fish before she gets it. She is defiantely a fish lover though. it is obvious that fish is her favorite meal, wether it is trout, sardines or canned salmon.

if she eats fish 4-5 days a week with chicken and organ offered the other couple days, is that properly balanced enough?

[Copper'sMom]

Originally Posted by meb999

you guys make it all seem so simple....if it's so simple, then why the heck am I so scraed to start this diet??

Me too! I've been reading and reading and I'm still so nervous! Although the dogs had their chiken gizzards and hearts today. I guess I'm more worried about them eating the bones -especially chicken bones. After all these years of being brainwashed not to feed chicken bones, it's kind of hard to get that out of my head!

Now I just have to figure out all the math and percentages! Converting kgs into pounds! Ugh. I don't know why I'm so worried about it all! I just want to make sure they get enough of everything they need!

technodoll, I enjoyed the recipe section on this site! lol http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

One more question: they can eat a whole chicken?? I've seen you mention whole turkey but not chicken! I really don't know much about meat! I like all my food processed!

[technodoll]

One more question: they can eat a whole chicken?? I've seen you mention whole turkey but not chicken

well... apparently if your dog is hungry enough, he can! LOL http://www.rawfeddogs.net/RecipeDetail.php?id=2 my boy did that once when he was about 5 months old, crunched through a whole chicken in one sitting (it as a smallish one). i was a proud mama, LOL!

oh and i don't give the whole turkey to the dog(s), i cut it up in manageable peices and debone the legs & wings first (bone too hard for them). but the necks & entire ribcage offer a good workout funny thing, both my dogs don't like huge peices of RMB's, it's like they get discouraged or bored or something? LOL i have to cut into smaller peices and then it's dinnertime. yes i have whacko furkids!

ps: don't forget to trim off any big dangly peices of skin from said chicken or turkey, it's quite fatty and can give the runs to a tummy not used to eating raw yet. Adding digesive enzymes to the meal at first is always a good idea, too, if your dog has a sensitive tummy overall. mind you, some dogs when taken from kibble to raw see their tummy troubles cleared up, so you never know. it truly is trial-and-error to get to know thy dog!

[Copper'sMom]

Is this true?
Raw and kibble shouldn't be fed in the same day? Because kibble takes longer to digest than raw so if raw is fed before the kibble, the kibble will block the raw from coming out??

[Melei'sMom]

Originally Posted by Copper'sMom

Is this true?
Raw and kibble shouldn't be fed in the same day? Because kibble takes longer to digest than raw so if raw is fed before the kibble, the kibble will block the raw from coming out??

True...kibble has the fillers that take longer to digest, and the dogs are built to move raw through at the proper rate for digestion. You don't want the raw getting blocked inthere behind a load of flour and such.