reaction ro raw bone?

[meb999]

I gave Buster his first raw bone yesterday. He loved it. I supervised his chewing, and everything seemed fine. He chewed it for an hour or two, and he didn't eat all that much of it. But then, at supper time, he barely touched his supper (which is rare...Buster LOVES to eat), and he seemed a little lethargic during the evening.

I sorta blamed it on the heat, and didn't think too much of it. But at 4 o'clock this morning, he started vomiting. He's only vomited 3 times, and all those before 5 o'clock (so he's been ok for 3 hours). Could this be caused by the raw bone?

I just called the vet and she gave me an appointement at 3 o'clock this afternoon. Am I overreacting? He still seems really lethargic, he's mopping around. Should I rush him to the emergency room?

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Hey Marie Eve! What kind of bone did he eat? Was it very meaty or just like a soup bone?

[meb999]

it was a beef soup bone. Here's a picture of it (I just took it!) If you're wondering what the white stuff is...it was in the freezer. I froze it yesterday, figuring I could give it to him again today. I put my hand next to it so you could get an idea of the size (not that it really makes a difference, does it?)

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Itdoesn't look like he got too much off it eh? Any sharp pieces? And has he ever had beef before?

[meb999]

wow, that came out really small!! Let me try again...

[meb999]

Originally Posted by BoxerRescueMTL

Itdoesn't look like he got too much off it eh? Any sharp pieces? And has he ever had beef before?

No, he really didn't eat that much of it. And no he's never had beef before. No sharp pieces. The vomiting doesn't worry me too much, because I tell myself that maybe he just has a sensistive tummy...but he's REALLY moppy. And you know boxers aren't usually moppy!!

[BMDLuver]

You aren't overreacting, lethargy is a sign that he's not processing something right.

Patch was at DMV on Boxing Day. A lady beside me had a gorgeous shepherd whom she was dogsitting for friends. He was just sort of lying on the floor not doing much. As the wait grew longer, we started to chat. Seems his owners asked her to give him a steak for Christmas dinner. He didn't seem right a few hours after but she thought maybe just upset tummy. In the morning, when he still wasn't better she headed in to the DMV. She left without him about 5 hours after we got there.

The intent of this is not to scare you but to say "don't ever think you are overreacting when your dog seems off". You know him better than anyone else.

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Ya, I'd go to the vet to be sure. It could be anything but it's best to be safe.

[technodoll]

hmmm it looks to me like he chewed off more than you might think, and contrary to popular belief, those big bones are NOT good for recreational chewing: very easy to chip off hard, sharp pieces of undigestible bone (specially for a dog who is not used to digesting raw & whose stomach acids have been weakened by a kibble diet). Many dogs (my boy included) chip and crack their teeth on those things. Please avoid giving any weight-bearing bones of large ungulates, cooked or raw, they really only belong in a pot for making soup broth better to let your boy chew on a frozen turkey neck, for example, as any bones he does ingest are very digestible.
that being said, both my dogs have been very mopey and lethargic the past 3 days, with the 40C humidex factor, they are hardly eating, not sleeping well, but i know that is how akitas cope with the summer heat (very badly). but that it their pattern, if it's unusual for your boy, yes take him to the vet. the fact that he vomited is a good sign (normally, bones that cannot be digested get regurgitated), were there any bone fragments in the reflux? or was it only bile?
please keep us posted, and don't worry he'll be fine... dogs are equipped to gnaw on raw bones, but if they have not done so from birth, they need to be gradually introduced to it with the right meaty bones (the bare naked ones are only good for tooth damage) good luck at the vets!

[meb999]

Originally Posted by technodoll

were there any bone fragments in the reflux? or was it only bile?
please keep us posted, and don't worry he'll be fine... dogs are equipped to gnaw on raw bones, but if they have not done so from birth, they need to be gradually introduced to it with the right meaty bones (the bare naked ones are only good for tooth damage) good luck at the vets!

The reflux was only bile. Man, I had read up on bones, and I found a few vets that recomend large bones with knuckles attached, which is why that's what I chose to give him...
I just put his leash on for his morning walk, and he refuses to come along. My bf keeps telling me (on the phone) that his buddies told him that Buster'll snap out of it, that he just wasn't used to that kind of meat. He doesn't want me to take him to the vet today (he wants to wait 'till tomorow)...but I don't think I can. I'm taking him today...

[OntarioGreys]

When dogs have not been eating raw meat for for a while of when first given, they may lack the appropriate digestive enzymes for digesting meat.


At the races kennels the greyhound get a racing mix of kibble, vegetables raw ground beef and supplements, but once they go to an adoption group they are feed just kibble, by the time the finally get into an adoptive home they may no longer have those needed enzymes to digest raw meat so will often vomit at first after a couple of meals till those enzymes will the reform, most raw feeders suggest if you are going to put them on a raw diet start them on a digestive enzyme initally like prozyme for the first week and this will help to prevent the vomitting.

[meb999]

My dad says the bone could have splittered and is now blocking the intestines...that he may be bleeding internally.....I'm REALLY FREAKED out! I'm the worse dog owner EVER!!

[Lissa]

You are not the worst dog owner at all - don't say that!

I agree with everything that technodoll posted.

Some dogs who are on kibble can handle a raw bone and others can't. Dodger as a puppy couldn't handle any type of raw bone whether it was beef, fish or poultry. But when I made the switch, he did perfectly as an adult and some fasting (to get the kibble out of his system).

I truly hope that Buster is okay. When is the appointment?

BTW - there are a few dogs out there who can't handle the raw diet. Its rare but it does happen, so it could be that Buster can't handle it. Having said that, Technodoll is right - something smaller and more easily digestible might have been easier for him to digest. Dodger can handle bigger recreational bones now but I wouldn't give them to him in the beginning or more than once a month.

[meb999]

So I took him to the 'emergency' vet (I cancelled my app. with my regular vet). I hate that emergency place, they never do a proper exam. He didn't yelp or anything when she examined him (although she didn't examine him long). but he was guarding (tensing up his tummy muscles when you touch them). She told me that it looked to her like an upset tummy, and to come back tomorow if there's no change. 150$ to be told that. Thanks alot. I'll go my regular vet tomorow.

Buster had a little bit of diarhea, which at least means something isn't completely blocking his intestines, right? Now, I'm worried he might be dehydrating. He hasn't had any water...and with this heat...
the skin on his neck stays pinched when you lift it (then again, he's a boxer, and they have a whole lotta neck skin, so it always sorta stays up when you pinch it...)

I just added a bit of juice in his bowl, and he drank A BIT. He's really not acting like himself. I went out for five minutes, and usually when I come back from somewhere (even if it's from the bathroom!!) I get a whole song and dance. He didn't even get up to greet me. No wiggle butt, nothing. I hate seeing him like this. :sad: I'm such a worry-wort.

[Lissa]

It's hard to know what is going on with our pets from the outside...Did the vet check his gums/mouth???

If its really hot perhaps it has just drained him? There isn't often an explanation for our pets illnesses but its normal for them to get sick too!

I hope everything is okay... when is your appointment tomorrow?

I would make some broth or blend up some chicken and rice instead of juice.

[technodoll]

i agree with lissa... is your place air-conditioned? it's unbelievably hot and muggy outside, most dogs (and humans!) just can't take this heat. also i am seeing many spiders and bugs starting to come into places, sometimes doggy will lick one up and bam, you have upset tummies from some mild toxins... anything is possible, i wouldn,t immediately blame it on the bone, could be just a coincidence.
Pedialyte (from the pharmacy) to keep him hydrated, dogs know when they shouldn't eat and perhaps you shouldn't force him to, but water is a must. does he like popsicles? good for some sugar too.... a treat. He pooped so he's not blocked... tell us how buster is in a couple of hours, kay?

[meb999]

broth is a good idea! I added just a drop of apple juice to his water...he seemed more interested in it. I also just turned on the ac, so I can rule out that he's just hot. No she didn't really check his mouth, just his belly...

His gums look pink, so as long as they're no whitish it's good right?

[technodoll]

yes, pink gums are a good sign. dogs just sometimes get tummy aches, the ickies, the blues, just like humans do. If you can rule out fever, extreme lethargy, and doggy is pooping "normally" (soft poop can be normal, bloody cannon-butt is not), dog's urine looks normal, no unusual bad breath, eyes are clear and not glassy, or red, or gummy, and doggy accepts treats even if not eating, and is drinking.... and the emergency vet was not alarmed and didn't diagnose anything on the spot... well i wouldn't worry TOO much Sometimes a bad night or two of sleep can make a doggy cranky and tired during the day, upset their digestive system, and it might have nothing to do with the bone he ate (although i would not give that kind of bone anymore, to be sure). Many times "raw food" is blamed for a variety of ailments that occured for a totally different reason (I am NOT saying you are doing this, of course!!), so it's best to investigate as much as you can, and then let nature take its course after that to regulate the problem (sleep, drink, poop everything out, go back on regular diet). Also, better to not coddle the doggy too much, some of them catch on real quick that if they act sick, they get all sorts of nice attention, treats, etc, and they milk it for every ounce they can, LOL!

[Prin]

I hope it's nothing serious, but IMO, it sounds like new raw with the heat was a bad combination. Heat is a stress and raw is a stress (if they're not used to it) and the two combined probably were just too upsetting. I hope that's it.

[rainbow]

I agree with Prin and hope you can get him to drink something. The popsicle trick would work with mine for sure.

[meb999]

Originally Posted by Prin

I hope it's nothing serious, but IMO, it sounds like new raw with the heat was a bad combination. Heat is a stress and raw is a stress (if they're not used to it) and the two combined probably were just too upsetting. I hope that's it.

Yeah, I was thinking about that today, and realised that yesterday he spent most of the day in the sun, which he rarely does (he usually ops for the shaded areas of the yard). I've turned the ac on.

He's still not eating (he doesn't even want peanut butter or yogurt -- two things he'd usually KILL to have). And he's VERY lethargic, he's not moving much...but I put some chicken broth in his water and he's drinking now, so at least that's that!

and the emergency vet was not alarmed and didn't diagnose anything on the spot... well i wouldn't worry TOO much

you would think after seeing the vet, I'd feel better, but she really didn't give him a real examination, and that worries me. She said 'oh! He seems so relaxed!' Because he was lying on the exam table...he NEVER does that. He's usually a pack of nerves at the vets. I'm not going back to that hospital (I've said that before!!).

[phoenix]

{{{{hugs}}}}} to you and Buster. I hope he feels better. It really could be the weather, though. Boxers are just not good in this heat-- my guys have been sleeping for a couple of days, just laying around. I can't believe the 150$. that's horrible.

[technodoll]

how is buster tonight? any improvement? it's gosh-awful hot and muggy even near 11pm, both my dogs are just exhausted from panting. we need a break!!

[meb999]

Last night was bad. Buster wouldn't eat or drink, or even stand up. I finally got him to drink a little bit of chicken broth, but he brought it right back up.

But this morning he seems a little better. right now, he's at the door growling at the postman, so I think he's coming out of it He also ate half a cup of his kibble, and he's drinking water without throwing up. Thanks for your concern everyone, Buster sends all of you a boxer wiggle (he's not feeling well, so only one wiggle per person ) HAHA

[rainbow]

Hope Buster has turned the corner and on his way to a full recovery.

[doggy lover]

Tucker eats those bones with no problem, but my last dog would have the runs for days. Every dogs tummy is different.
On Sunday when I took Tucker for a walk he came home behind us, the heat was getting to him too. The last few days he won't even go out of the house other than to go potty, I say walkies and he heads for the door in. Can't say I blame him, I'll take him for a walk this afternoon now that its not so hot.
Hope you doggy feels better soon, two things I hate sick babies or pets as they can tell us what is wrong.

[Skryker]

Glad Buster seems to be feeling better. Maybe it was the heat after all, combined with the bone, as the heat has let up for now. and I hope he gets his full wiggle back soon!

[Prin]

I hope he comes out of it soon.

[glasslass]

Do you think the bone might have been spoiled? Maybe the heat and all caused some bad bacteria? Food poisoning can happen to dogs as well as humans.

[K9Friend]

I'm just getting to this thread now. I went thru something similar about 2 yrs ago with my GSD. I had given her a pig's ear :sad: and oh la la - did it cost me! Almost $600 later and tons of sleepless nights worrying about her - she recovered but there was something obviously very very bad about that ear that made my dog violently ill. Like you - I thought she had a blockage, ya name it. She was lethargic - had violent vomiting spells, diarrhea, and it took almost 3 wks before she returned to normal. Dog was given x-rays, losec, injections to stop the vomiting, antibiotics..etc. Finally, I managed to get to my regular vet (who I wished I had seen from the start) - who gave me a probiotics (digestize enzyme) paste. Expensive, smelly but whatever is in that stuff - got my dog back on her feet again. I'm not saying this is what Buster needs - but sometimes when their stomach is off - a probiotics paste can help.

I hope Buster is feeling better soon. I'm sure that bone was off or way too rich for his tummy. Keep us posted.

oh...and no more pig's ears for my dog!!