Here is a Challenge BTPB or anyone else

[mastifflover]

This is for BTPB I am putting up a test here and if you can honestly pick out the pit bull I will be shocked and I am not talking about on your 6th or 7th or 10th try. I want to know how many you picked first and how long it took you to find APBT. I know pit owners that have had trouble so lets see how the well informed BTPB does. Anybody else feel free to try it. It took me 4 tries to get it. I think I am pretty breed saavy Haha. Fooled me.

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

[LavenderRott]

I got it right the first time. Before we all start jumping for joy over my intelliegence, I think it only fair to mention that this is the same test I polled on last month and I have looked at it a gazilion times.

[mastifflover]

But I thought it was a great test even for those who think they know what a Pit looks like. I am ashamed I picked a Presa first you think I would know my mastiffs. Hanging head in shame

[BamaRama]

I think the real pitbull was the one I picked last...I can't remember, I did the test a few weeks ago

[melanie]

well i dont think anyone who does not live with these dogs will have any chance of guessing it, and if your not a dog breeder or knoweledgable in such an area it seems a bit pointless, as i simply have never ever heard of the majority of breeds on the test and pit bulls are banned over here so i dont see many often.. it would be fairer if the dogs were actually compared to something general, such as staffies, rotties, and mixed breeds etc. the dogs all look like what i term pig dogs, no breed names, just pig dogs, the type used for pig hunting.

i have never in my life heard fo breeds such as
boerboel, dogo argentino, presa canaro, cane corso, black mouth cur and the list goes on. it is a little deceptive the way they have all used pig dogs but used very trendy breeds that the average person has never heard of and will never see in a life time.

so what am i supposed to do' am i supposed to look at a pig dog and go 'ah well you see that is a prime example of presa canaro'??

i dont think that test would achieve much in normal society other than alerting ppl to some really strange breeds of dog, and as many ppl know(esp in australia), there is an assumption that a mixed pig breed is more dangerous than not, so you make ppl aware of more breeds to hate and look out for.

bullmastifs and bulldogs are often mistaken for pits, why not use them in the test, it is a bit ineffective to use breeds not heard of, they should be using breeds that can be found on the streets and in ppl lives daily so they cna relate it to their experiences, i think that would prove a point far more effectivly.

[LavenderRott]

Actually, almost all of the breeds used are classified as Molosser's. The whole point of it is that most people wouldn't know a "pit bull" if it bit them on the nose, so to speak.

Dogo Argentinos, Cana Corsos, and Presa Canarios are becoming more popular in North America all the time. Filas, too. These breeds were all bred to protect herds, if I am not mistaken, from wolves and mountain lions. Want to talk about a dog needing responsible owners! These are BIG, POWERFUL dogs that make pit bulls look like bad tempered puppies.

They have "pig dogs" in some of the southern states in the U.S. I believe. I guess there are some things that are very different here then "down under".

Honestly, if you couldn't find the pit bull on the "test" chances are you wouldn't know one if it attacked you.

[Bugsy]

Mastiff LOL

Oh my... I thought that was a JRT

[melanie]

your right about the diferences between our dog societies or culture. i have never hear of any of those breeds, but then we dont have wolves or mountain lions (that sounds very scary) so we dont have a use for such breeds. but i did find the PB on my secound attempt, maybe from sheer luck but the dog look similar to one i know and that is why i picked it.

when i say pig dog, over here pig dogs are any breed of muscle dog although you do find the odd cattle dog used also. due to the banning of PB over here, some hunters have taken to trying to hid their PB by mixing the muscle breeds with PB. we have some pretty darn scary pig dogs being bred over here, and many are very dangerous simply because they are they are strictly hunting dogs, they love the hunt and that is what they do best, they have taste for blood and so on. i for one will never allow my neice or nephew near any breed that looks like a pig dog, its to risky to leave kids with hunting dogs. i have never assumed PB, only pig dog, to me i dont care what breed it is, if its piggin dog i dont go near it simple. but you also dont find to many pig dogs in towns, mainly in very sml towns and on properties or in pig infested areas.

but also over here when someone says pit bull, it is usually a bull dog or staffie they are talking about, the majority ppl here have never seen a PB. i have had a dog for years and only met my first real PB the other week (he is a hunting dog but he is hidden out on the farm so not many aware of his existance). and that is the worst thing, when ppl hide them, it makes it so dangerous for anyone else, simply because PB or not you are not aware of the dogs presence and that could cause umpteen dozen problems..

but it is obviously a useful test in your country, but over here no one would believe me that those breeds actually exist, perhaps if that test is to be used anywhere eles it should be modified by the user to place it in a cultural context.

[Cactus Flower]

This test was fun (done it before), but I completely agree with Melanie. Never heard of those other breeds. And you're right, Mel- on this continent, there are probably very few people who have heard of a presa canaro, let alone confused it with a pit bull. A test with more common breeds would be more effective in proving how easy it is to confuse pit bulls with other breeds.

[sammiec]

Some of these breeds are actually very common in North America.

I found it on the 3rd try.

Presa Canarios (13) originated in the Canary Islands. They are noted on the Dogs in Canada board. HERE There are two kennels in Canada (near Ottawa).

Boxers (1), are common

Douge De Bordeau (2) are also in North America becoming famous in Turner and Hooch HERE

Alapaha Blue (3) originated in Georgia HERE

Fila Brasileiro (11) have many breeders through out North America HERE

Just a few, they are more common then we think... I was shocked when I actually began to look.. I won't post all of them, but majority of these dogs are throughout North America and I guess we just pass them up and what breed we assume they are....

[mastifflover]

Yeah most of them are Mossler breeds and some you might know by more common names the presa is also known as a Canary Mastiff or a Fila is a Brazillian Mastfiff. But the scary thing is that some of these dogs if in the wrong hands will make a pit bull attack look like a scratch. This is what will happen as LR said it would be devastating if these dogs who can be aggressive were trained to attack. These dogs in the right hands of an experienced owner are very loving and sweet dogs same as a pit bull it is all about the owner.

[sammiec]

Don't you think imposing a pit bull ban will just encourage those punks to get a more aggressive dog, like these we mentioned? These dogs that make pit bull attacks "look like scratches" would be even worse for our society, but banning the pit bull will bring in more of these dogs, I wouldn't doubt that for a second!

[pitbulliest]

"i have never in my life heard fo breeds such as
boerboel, dogo argentino, presa canaro, cane corso, black mouth cur and the list goes on. it is a little deceptive the way they have all used pig dogs but used very trendy breeds that the average person has never heard of and will never see in a life time."

In response to this..these dogs are becoming more and more common..that's why they were used in this little quiz. Cane Corsos, Dogo Argentinos and Presa Canaros aren't as common in Canada per se..but have been widely spread throughout the states as of late...the point is, most dogs that are identified as APBTs or just pit bulls in general, are NOT...

[mastifflover]

There are breeders of Bandogs which are crosses of Mastiffs boerboel (South African) and Pits or American Bulldogs and are used for protection and hunting wild boers etc. I personally do not support or agree with this type of breeding, and especially now that these guys that are totally irresponsible pit owners will be able to get there hands on one of these dogs that is very scary. The damage one of these dogs could inflict would be massive and they could kill so easily. These dogs are going to weigh well over a 100 pounds. I did mention this in an email to Michael Bryant and supplied a link to see bandogs. I also mentioned that if he thought a pit bull attack was bad wait till he sees what these dogs can do.

[Copper'sMom]

Isn't it funny how BTPB hasn't replied to this thread?? When I did this test a while back, I was quite surprised that I couldn't find the Pit Bull!! I thought it was #3!! I know it took me numerous tries to find the pit bull........and I own one!! Or do I????

[Spurby]

Originally Posted by mastifflover

There are breeders of Bandogs which are crosses of Mastiffs boerboel (South African) and Pits or American Bulldogs and are used for protection and hunting wild boers etc..

Ban dogs are always crosses of one breed- American pit bull terrier, and Mastiff, most common, and generally accepted is the Neapolitan Mastiff. Though i am guessing many out there have been using many other breeds and calling them Bandogs for the effect it has. Certainly not the breed for everyone i agree!

[melanie]

sorry pitbulliest, i live in a different country to you, not usa or canada and here those dogs are not seen, and never heard of, im sure they are popular in america or canada, but as i said it need to be culturally appropriate as those dogs are not seen here.

[pitbulliest]

Melanie..I understand..I was assuming you were from North America..and I'm also assuming that the website was designed with North Americans in mind...its more of a national than international site I guess...but it really does have some good information.

[mastifflover]

I also think some of these breed although not common in every country are very common in South America and Europe since this is where a fair amount of them have come from these countries originally. But it was more about the point that people really can't distinguish a pit form other breeds.

[cutiecherise]

First time around, i guessed the puppy in box 23. Pitbull second time...
I recognized a few of those breeds as NOT being pitbulls, but i don't know all their names...

I think it would make more sense to have either
all headshot images
or
all full body sideview-3/4 view images

and all adult dogs.

Some of the pictures were really pixelated, or low quality, and just plain hard to see.

I think the breeds used are fine, but if i were to design a test like this, i would have used some different images that were more relative to eachother.

It is a good idea though, and surely makes one think about their own notions of pitbulls.

[cutiecherise]

*chuckles*

I was clicking on some of those pictures, to see which breeds were appearing on that page,
and some of them are so NOT pitbulls...

and then i noticed...

the JACK RUSSEL TERRIERS!

*snicker* I can't stop laughing... Sorry, but it was cute...

[rottnpagan]

heh I got it on the second try. :0)

My female purebred Rottweiler was accused of being a pit bull at a 'Pet Photo Day' and I was told to put a muzzle on her or she won't have her photo done.

Suffice it to say, I pitched a fit.

She's getting her picture done this year, whether the store manager takes her photo himself. (His words, not mine).

[dogdude]

I'm sending this question to this list for the following reasons: 1. I've read a lot of the posts about breed bans, and several folks here seem informed and lovers of "dangerous dogs" (media title), and 2. I have some simple questions that I would like to run past some "dangerous dog" owners (not your dog specifically, but what the media calls "dangerous").

I'll start by saying that I am a dog owner. He's a mellow, older retriever, flat-coated, gentle, quiet, much like a rug that I walk and feed. He's a great dog. I can understand being attached to a pet.

I'm also the father of a 17 month old son... the type who destroys things, toddles around my house, has no fear (due to living with the afformentioned rug) of dogs, and little fear of much else. I can understand being concerned over the safety of a child.

Here come the questions... ready?

I would NEVER leave my son alone with my dog. I've had this dog for 9 years, and trust him explicitly. My son however, who loves the dog, is not above poking the dog in the eyes, ears, and nose (something we try to stop when we're in the room), and the dog could react badly, possible causing harm to my son. If that were to happen and the injury was serious enough, though it would kill me, I would put the dog down. Should I not expect that ANY dog, regardless of breed, if it causes serious injury to a person, regardless of provocation, be put down?

I recall an attack in Edmonton a few years ago in which a Mastiff owner shot his own dog because it attacked and killed a 5 year old girl. Up to that point he described his dog as gentle and trustworthy, and witnesses said the girl paused her playing long enough to stop and look the dog in the eye, where upon it attacked her. The dog was dead before the police arrived. This owner was not a "darker element" of society (though he was a lawyer ), but a responsible, good dog owner. He had no idea his dog would or could do such a thing. Nonetheless, the dog had no chance whatsoever to do it again. Isn't this the right thing to do?

I don't advocate for the death of pit bulls or any other type/breed. I do, however, advocate for muzzles, bans on breeding (especially for unscrupulous breeders), and termination for dogs that ever cross the line, regardless of why they attack. Am I being unreasonable?

We would all agree that the major problem is owners, not dogs. Some are just not responsible. But how to control that? Do we start with a "dangerous dog" registry, much like a gun registry, and try and deny people from owning a dog that we don't think they should have? Remember, that would mean if you think it would be hard for you to get a gun, the same would extend for a pitbull.

I'm listening to the CBC news right now, and the breed ban sounds like it's moving forward. From what I can hear, they are saying muzzles, bigger fines (up to $10,000), no new dogs, and no breeders. If you've got one now, muzzle it and be responsible. If you want a new one, think again. Is this not responsible?

Don't tell me about "statistic"... I'm a biostatician. I understand misidentification, and which dogs are "most likely" to bite (often ****ers). I think the real difference is that when ****ers and goldies bite, they often let go (and I can easilly overpower a ****er). When there is an attack, it is often severe, and the results are often attributed to a "dangerous dog" breed, like rotties and pits. Why can't society put some restrictions on this? Why is this not ok?

Tell me that in public I have to muzzle my mellow, rug dog. Done. When he started to get aggressive on the leash with other dogs, my vet recommended a halty. I bought one, and I still use it 2 years later. It controls the dog better, and he doesn't growl and bark at other dogs when I walk him.

Someone point out to me (calmly, no name calling please) why this is an issue, and not just reactionary rhetoric to "impositions" on our cute friends.

Anyone?

cheers,
Dogdude

[dogdude]

I just tried the little "spot the pit bull" game that folks have been talking about. Ok, maybe I'm a biologist, but I'm not a breed/type officionado. Even so, I picked the PB 3rd. if you know some breeds, it's not that hard.

dogdude

[sammiec]

I apprciate your comments, it's very well written and to the point.

For starters. I have a 1 year old APBT. Briggs is a family pet. She is with us constantly.
I wouldn't leave my dog unattended with any children. I don't believe dogs are to be babysitters. I do however trust her completely with children, while there is supervision. I don't have children of my own and I think it's fari to say that depending on the circumstances I would consider her being PTS if there ever was an attack. I would hope that would be for any breed.

Pit bulls are not bred to attack people, they are "programmed" that way through "training" by the irresponsible owners, and by training I mean they either have protection training, or no training at all. Many dogs involved in these types of horrible attacks have a story behind them. They are not fully vaccinated, they are under socialized, they are neglected, etc.
Some attacks on other dogs are from owners carelessly assuming their dog will not do anything. Pit bulls will attack other dogs if they feel threatened, regardless of size. If a caucker spaniel (I know how to spell but it gets blocked) was to get in my dogs face and try and initiate (what its owner would call playing) a fight, my dog would probably end it. The public is VERY misunderstood about this fact. There are misunderstood about the breed entirely - they are not bred to be HUMAN aggressive!

Pit bull owners should be regualted. ADDED: I think that the owners should go through a vigurous screening process, they should have their homes evaluated, they should take a "safety" training course - like how to break up a fight, something like that. I know I would be willing to do all of those to have my dog. Those that are not so willing can get a sheetsu!! (I know how to spell that too )
The dogs should have temperment testing - that's about it, I think. If the dog is viewed as unfit and has the potential to attack a human - and this is found during the testing I would rather that dog be PTS. It saves them, the owners, and potential victims a lot of heartache and pain in the long run.

There are many attacks by other breeds that are not brought to the lime light such as pit bulls and rotties. There was an attack in Chatham during the beginning of the BSL talk. A Cheasapeak Retreiver attacked a child and required 100 stitches. Did you hear about that? It's frustrating, but it does happen. I wouldn't doubt for a second that if my best friend's golden was to attack, I wouldn't be able to physically handle that dog. No way. He's 110lbs and very strong.

I do not believe it's fair that my dog should have to wear a muzzle. I think that's it's pretty inhumane, IMO! But if I have to choose a muzzle or no dog... - I can still show her the same love and affection with that stupid thing on her face.
A halties is not a muzzle, they are designed for a comfortable and effortless control of your dog. They are not designed for deteering barking nor biting, your dog can still bite, and do damage if he wants to.... - just incase you were mislead about their function!

I hope I was able to answer your questions.

[sammiec]

Originally Posted by dogdude

I just tried the little "spot the pit bull" game that folks have been talking about. Ok, maybe I'm a biologist, but I'm not a breed/type officionado. Even so, I picked the PB 3rd. if you know some breeds, it's not that hard.

dogdude

They 3rd try doesn't count in a court of law. Yes, it's not that hard, but it's not that easy either, that was the point.

[mastifflover]

I think your comments were very well written and I agree with a lot of things you have said. But I do not believe that every dog that bites should be put down. Example I had a dog that loved kids and over a matter of a few weeks started to run away from them and bark at them. The reason the kid next door used to poke her through the fence with sticks and tease her. I caught him went to the parents with the kid in tow and told them what was going on. I said I did not want there child to get bit but he was going to whether it was my dog or someone elses. He did get bit by another dog. My smart thinking by reporting the incident to the police and animal control saved that dogs life because the child caused his own bite. Sorry the kid got bit but he deserved it he had been warned about his behaviour and if his parents could not be bothered to teach their child to respect animals, that is not up to the neighbourhood. When this went to court the owners were found innocent and the judge told the parents of the child that they need to teach animal safety the dog was on his property behind a fence not running loose. This dog by the way had never been or never after that was aggressive. I also dont agree that a animal should be required to a muzzle if it has never done anything to warrant it. Also what happens when that ie: lab attacks one of these dogs and they cannot defend themselves or their owner. What is that too bad for them. Sorry it will be a cold day in hades before I would ever put a muzzle on my dog if has done nothing to deserve it. I do not own a pit bull but I feel this issue affects every dog owner. I do agree if my dog unprovoked attacked as much as it would devastate me I would have him put down. I am a responsible owner and expect my dog to be under control at all times. If more people would take responsibility for their dogs large and small we would have less dog bites and attacks. The gun registry was a flop criminals dont register their guns just as the ignorant idiots who train and abuse these dogs are not going to abide by the laws and will move on to larger more aggressive and dangerous dogs, becase they are out there but they were so focused on pit bulls.

[dogdude]

Originally Posted by sammiec

They 3rd try doesn't count in a court of law. Yes, it's not that hard, but it's not that easy either, that was the point.

I agree that it's not easy... but what does "in the court of law" mean? If you're comparing it to a lineup, we're not talking about an individual dog here, as in, "That dog bit me", we're talking about "That type of dog bit me", which would be similar to, "That race of person attacked me." Put someone Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Malaysian, and a Philipino in a lineup, all male, all 5'4", all the same build. Could you say that it was definitely one race or another that mugged you? Probably not. Could you say it was a definitely a Pit Bull that attacked you? Probably not. Could you say it was an Asian person that attacked you? Yes. Could you say it was a, "Pit Bull like dog, or Pit Bull cross" that attacked you? I could. I suspect many others could as well.

Let's eliminate the times a victim called a mastiff a pit bull, or a shepard cross a pit bull, or a Burnese mountain dog a pit bull... these are silly mistakes. But when a person thinks a Thai Ridgeback, a Bull Terrier, or a Pit Bull Cross are "Pit Bull like", I would tend to agree. I suspect the description of "an Asian person" attacked me would stand up in court, and be used as evidence to include or exclude someone as a suspect. On top of that, many attacks are not attributed to "unknown attackers" (as in "unknown assailant"), but rather are attributed to a specific animal, many time killed after the attack. Regardless of what the victim thought the dog "looked" like, usually the specific breed is determined.

Again, I don't want to marginalize the feelings and opinions of those against a "dangerous breed" ban, but it would be helpful if people on both sides of the debate used good evidence. If one side starts using bad evidence (as the media side often does) that does not justify countering them with bad reasoning as well. Take the high road folks!

cheers,
Dogdude

[schnauzerlove]

Second try (first try was the Jack Russell Terrier)....tried to pick the least likely picture first (thought it was a trick question). My second pick was the one I thought looked like the APBT. I didn't know much about these dogs until I got onto this website.....all those cute pics posted by members!!

[sammiec]

I was in no way intending that post to be ignorant or rude. I simply was stating that it's not easy to pick out the breed. It's frustrating. When people see a boxer and call it a pit bull, or a shepard mix and all it a pit bull, or a mastiff and call it a pit bull - yes a silly mistake, but in many instances these are taken into account and still categorized as and attack by a pit bull. It's ridiculous.
For instance....
This dog kinda looks like a pit bull type dog, short hair, firm build... could get classified as a pit bull in an attack. They happen so fast that people are just not able to correctly identify dogs including their breeds.
That's what I was referring to.
This dog is a GSD/boxer