Agression Post Neutering

[Jak]

Hi,

We just had our 9 months old Jack Russell/Miniature American Eskimo neutered on Monday. I will give a little background first.

While he was "babied" from the beginning (coming on couches, bed, laying on us) he was always great and never really showed any aggression towards myself and my wife. During the last months he has started to show some dominance in the form of growling and showing his teeth only when we approach his space whether on the bed or the floor and this generally happens when he is spent from playing throughout the day. Of course we never accepted this and would tell him no then off immediately.

We started to implement NILIF (he have taught him from an early age to sit/stay/lie down/roll over) daily and last week he really improved. We gave him absolutely zero access to the bed and couch once we started to notice the growling and we no longer let him up on us.

On Monday we took him to get neutered and ever since then he has been a mess. Constantly growling, showing teeth, being very distant with us and in other words wants nothing to do with us. We have even taken away any bedroom privileges and he now sleeps in his cage in the kitchen.

What I don't understand is that MANY times he shows he is the beta dog. He'll approach and ask for affection, he'll sit, stay, lie down and roll over on command whether it is for no reason or to be let out, fed etc etc....he'll be all happy one minute then another minute he'll growl. Also when he growls to protect space, if I approach he will give up that space and walk away without me even saying anything. Actually now that I think of it, many times he will even leave the space without growling yet i know what going to come next if i try to play with him or pet him...he will growl or show teeth.

Could this be part of the neutering process because he was never this bad and it is a HUGE change compared to last week.

[luckypenny]

Is he on any medication since the surgery? What does the incision look like? Any swelling, redness, oozing, etc? His behavior may be a result of pain/discomfort. It would be a good idea to have a follow-up visit to the vet.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Is he on any medication since the surgery? What does the incision look like? Any swelling, redness, oozing, etc? His behavior may be a result of pain/discomfort. It would be a good idea to have a follow-up visit to the vet.

He was on some anti-inflammatory / painkillers for the first 2 days. Now he is on nothing. I called where I got him fixed and they said to give it a few more days. I really hope it's stress/pain related and not him actual personality changing.

Doesn't look like there is much swelling. The scrotum looks pretty big still but just a little redness and no oozing. Everytime we take his e-collar off he will go down there to lick so we immediately put it back on. He has had very little chance to lick down there since we almost always keep the e-collar on.

[Love4himies]

Not that I know too much about dogs, but it seems like he is in pain and doesn't want to be touched .

[luckypenny]

There wouldn't be a change in behavior after a neuter unless he's feeling some discomfort. If you're really worried, I'd insist the vet take a look at him. Perhaps he'd at least be given some more painkillers.

Other than that, make sure he rests (no jumping, running, etc). Take him out on leash only for the next 5 days or so.

[Jak]

He just doesnt want to be touched by us but he will go around with his cone on crashing into everything, trying to rip it to shreds and he will also be playful at times. If I take the cone off all he wants to do is run and play that's why the pain thing is confusing.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

There wouldn't be a change in behavior after a neuter unless he's feeling some discomfort. If you're really worried, I'd insist the vet take a look at him. Perhaps he'd at least be given some more painkillers.

Other than that, make sure he rests (no jumping, running, etc). Take him out on leash only for the next 5 days or so.

So stress doesn't play a factor? He was in really bad shape when he came back to us. I've spayed my previous dog and it was nothing compared to him. Also, the techs at the clinic also told me he would growl at them all day and they couldnt get close to him. He has never ever shown aggression towards visitors or people on the street.

[luckypenny]

I understood you to ask if the actual neutering would cause the aggressive behavior .

You wrote that he's shown some similar behavior before the neuter so this behavior is a pre-existing issue. Pain, discomfort, stress (especially if he hasn't been conditioned to the cone previously) could all be factors in his increasing aggression but not likely the cause.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I understood you to ask if the actual neutering would cause the aggressive behavior .

You wrote that he's shown some similar behavior before the neuter so this behavior is a pre-existing issue. Pain, discomfort, stress (especially if he hasn't been conditioned to the cone previously) could all be factors in his increasing aggression but not likely the cause.

Oh for sure the aggression (more dominance than aggression) was there before the surgery. The thing is he was actually getting better by us eliminating some things as well as using NILIF. After the surgery he seems to be back to even before square one. Much worse than he has ever been.

[Bailey_]

Actually studies by both the C-BARQ and AKC Canine Health Foundation have shown that in some cases male dogs neutered before full maturity are more likely to become aggressive. I've also personally seen this in both spayed females and neutered males.

In your case though, I really think your dog is reacting to pain (as has been stated above.) Sometimes when our dog is feeling out of his element, either physically or environmentally, this can cause insecurity which will reinforce previously learned behaviors.

It's going to be really important for you to ensure a firm obedience regimene with your dog so that this behavior can be curbed. The older the dog gets, the worse a behavior can become. Were you able to walk him regularly before his surgery? Does he get much socialization with other dogs?

[Jak]

Originally Posted by Bailey_

Actually studies by both the C-BARQ and AKC Canine Health Foundation have shown that in some cases male dogs neutered before full maturity are more likely to become aggressive. I've also personally seen this in both spayed females and neutered males.

In your case though, I really think your dog is reacting to pain (as has been stated above.) Sometimes when our dog is feeling out of his element, either physically or environmentally, this can cause insecurity which will reinforce previously learned behaviors.

It's going to be really important for you to ensure a firm obedience regimene with your dog so that this behavior can be curbed. The older the dog gets, the worse a behavior can become. Were you able to walk him regularly before his surgery? Does he get much socialization with other dogs?

The good news is that he was a true gem tonight. No growling, very playful, went for a nice short walk with him but had to keep the e-collar on after the walk because he was jumping and running around without it. He is alot more attentive and out for attention tonight.

He always went for regular walks before the surgery. We also stop regularly for him to meet other dogs and people. To add, we also take him to our parent's homes every 2nd weekend and they come over every other weekend. We have a really big family so there is usually 14-15 of us in the house at the same time with our dog. We are always entertaining so people are always over and he is great with people. To add, he is also great with my mom's dog and my cousin's two dogs whether in their environment or his.

He is only really acting up with us especially since the surgery but like I said, he has been a real good boy tonight. Let's hope this continues.

[Macomom]

Sound like a great first step Jak. I am pleased that you saw some great behaviour- it helps you to remember why you love the little growling beast
Let us know how it progresses, we are all reading and invested in him getting back into the swing of things. I am sure the exercise will be a great therapy for him to get out his energy. I hope his pain has subsided so more exercise will be possible.
When we had our last Rottweiller spayed, 9 years ago, she went into a chronic depression. It was such a terrible funk that we were very worried.
I think surgery and the ensuing medication treatments can really affect pets. I wish we could communicate the "why"...

[Longblades]

He'll approach and ask for affection

The alpha and dominance theories have been disputed by many authorities of late. Instead of alpha or dominance I like to think of it as learned manipulation. He sucked up, you petted him, he got what he wanted and he learned to do it again. Whatever your semantics, do not reward solicitations for affection. He is manipulating you when he does that. Make him sit or something first. Let him learn affection from you is at your discretion, not his, and is only administered by you after he does what you want, even a simple sit.

Jak, I also wonder if your pup is not just feeling poorly from his neuter but your observation that his behaviour has not changed is a reflection of the findings of many that neutering is not a cure-all for behaviourial problems. Sometimes neutering helps, maybe even the majority of the time, but training, training, training is what was needed before his neuter and after.

Actually studies by both the C-BARQ and AKC Canine Health Foundation have shown that in some cases male dogs neutered before full maturity are more likely to become aggressive.

Bailey, can you give some links to those studies? I've read that aggression in females that were already showing signs of it has been documented to increase, sometimes, after neutering, and particularly aggression towards family members.

Edited to add: I did find this one http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files...20Behavior.pdf

[Jak]

Originally Posted by Macomom

Sound like a great first step Jak. I am pleased that you saw some great behaviour- it helps you to remember why you love the little growling beast
Let us know how it progresses, we are all reading and invested in him getting back into the swing of things. I am sure the exercise will be a great therapy for him to get out his energy. I hope his pain has subsided so more exercise will be possible.
When we had our last Rottweiller spayed, 9 years ago, she went into a chronic depression. It was such a terrible funk that we were very worried.
I think surgery and the ensuing medication treatments can really affect pets. I wish we could communicate the "why"...

Thanks for the kind words!

Another day has passed and while the growling is sometimes there, it is getting so much better. He seems to be back to his usual self. Once that e-collar comes off Monday i'm sure he'll feel even better.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by Longblades

The alpha and dominance theories have been disputed by many authorities of late. Instead of alpha or dominance I like to think of it as learned manipulation. He sucked up, you petted him, he got what he wanted and he learned to do it again. Whatever your semantics, do not reward solicitations for affection. He is manipulating you when he does that. Make him sit or something first. Let him learn affection from you is at your discretion, not his, and is only administered by you after he does what you want, even a simple sit.

Jak, I also wonder if your pup is not just feeling poorly from his neuter but your observation that his behaviour has not changed is a reflection of the findings of many that neutering is not a cure-all for behaviourial problems. Sometimes neutering helps, maybe even the majority of the time, but training, training, training is what was needed before his neuter and after.

We have been practicing NILIF for over a month now so even when he comes for attention we always make him do something. Actually, if he decides to get my attention by whimpering or pawing at me, I actually ignore him until he stops what he is doing.

Actually, I've been told that the effects of neutering are not felt instantly so it's not like we were expecting him to stop being aggressive instantly. We are just hoping that our training methods, exercise and the neutering will curb some of his aggression issues.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Jak

We are just hoping that our training methods, exercise and the neutering will curb some of his aggression issues.

Seems to me like you and your wife are doing all the right things !

[hazelrunpack]

You're right about the effect of neutering not being immediately apparent, Jak. It takes some months for the testosterone to fade from the system.

It does sound like the increased aggression you were seeing after the surgery was from either discomfort or the meds. I agree with Frenchy that you're doing the right things!

for continued success with your boy!