Cat CRF

[Geno 507]

Thanks people, but I just CAN,T get myself to stick those needles into her, much less trying to get her to swallow her pills, especially the azoydl capsule. maybe it would be better if i left the room when they do it, and then I would wonder if they really did give her her pills....I guess I have to learn to trust people, oh my...Geno

[sugarcatmom]

Couple of things come to mind about the subQs:

First of all, at the vet clinics they don't have time to warm the fluids, so Paula could be reacting to the strange sensation of slightly coldish liquid going under her skin. I really think it makes a difference to use body temperature fluids instead, which is why I prefer to do subQs at home.

The other problem could be the size of the needle they use. Again, at a vet clinic they're trying to get the job done as fast as possible, so they tend to use big fat 18 gauge needles to let the fluids flow faster. These things are harpoons! But there are better options. If you can track down some Terumo Ultra Thin Wall 20 gauge needles, it will be much more comfortable for Paula and the flow rate is not much slower. You can ask the clinics to use them instead of the 18g ones (if you bring your own, I doubt a lot of clinics stock them). Here's a link showing the needle differences: http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt...outNeedles.htm

And of course the stress of being in a strange vet clinic could be adding to the problem. Are you sure you can't get one of the tech's to show you how to do fluids yourself? Yes, it's scary at first, but just think of Paula and how you're doing it for her benefit. You can give her treats while you do it, and talk to her calmly, explaining what you're doing and why. You have the resources to make it a more relaxing experience all around. I'm sure she'll appreciate.

I wish I could help you with the pilling, but my guy is a terror when it comes to getting stuff down his throat.

All the best to you, and keep giving us updates!

[hazelrunpack]

I know exactly how you feel about the needles, Gene. I've been known to pass out at the mere sight of them. But after we got Macie and found out she had demodectic mange, we had to try to reduce her stress. And since she hated going to the vet, that meant we had to give her her vaccinations at home.

I remember the day I did it for the first time--I practiced in my head and with hand motions for over an hour: pull up the scruff, insert needle, hit the plunger, withdraw...over and over and over again. And finally, heart racing, mouth dry, light-headed, I decided it was time. Guess what happened? After all that practiced insert-hit-the-plunger-withdraw, I put the needle in and froze, waiting for an ear-splitting shriek.

It took me about 5 seconds before I realized it wasn't coming. Macie just didn't care. So I hit the plunger, got the needle out and Macie licked my nose...

Now it's not a big deal.

But really, don't sell yourself short! You can do this, Gene--honest! If woossy ol' hazel can do it...and if hazel's even woossier little sister can do subQ's on her kitties, you can! Honest!

After the first time, it gets lots easier. You might even find that both of you enjoy it as a special time together. My sis's last kitty actually would come over for his subQs and purr the whole time.

Good luck, Gene. Such a hard thing. But if you can manage it, I think Paula will appreciate it!

[Love4himies]

Oh I hope all will work out for you.

[natasha499]

My cat just had her tests run... There were two tests. One measured the CREA and BUN. The other test was a Hematology and I think it also measured Anemia.

Hematology test showed everything in a normal range. The vet said that if she was in extreme renal failure that these would be elevated also. I believe this is the test for Anemia. And if she was in extreme renal failure ; it would show up here.

The other test included the Bun and Creatine.
Her Bun is at 84 and Crea is 4.1
And yes they are high but they have been coming down.
I put my cat on Purina veterinary KF Kidney Function.
Supposedly it is the quality of food that can affect these levels.
The vet also provides me with metoclopramide. It is a liquid medication that I give twice a day to my cat. It prevents her from throwing up.

Even though the Bun and Crea are considered high, they are improving from last time just due to the food and because I am administering the medicine.
By preventing her from throwing up it improves the dehydration.

These two simple things are improving her levels.
She told me to come back in six months... or if the medicine is not preventing her from throwing up. That means that she is not getting worse and that the medicine is effective.

Don't let a vet put your friend to sleep. Find a doctor that will help you. My last vet put my other cat to sleep. They told me he was suffering and that I should put him to sleep. He was gaining weight, and would go on walks with me. They made me feel that I was torturing him. If the Doctor said to put the cat to sleep.... GET A SECOND OR THIRD OPINION!!!!!!
And get Vet approved food.

[growler~GateKeeper]

natasha499 have you spoken to your vet about sub-q fluids yet? Those numbers are quite high and if your cat is having trouble with nausea it is a good idea to give them the extra boost of fluids.

The vet diets even the kidney formulas are really not the best food for cats. There is very little protein in the food and that is not good for an obligate carnivore, cats need high quality protein. When consistently fed a low protein diet this can lead to muscle wasting and weakness - 2 common issues in the CRF cat. The latest studies in CRF have shown high quality protein is better than low levels of protein for maintaining the health of the cat, high quality protein will naturally have lower levels of phosphorus.

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...=show&item=003
http://www.southpaws.com/news/99-2-nutrition-CF.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional...ts.htm#protein
http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Have a look at the ingredients in what you are feeding and compare that to the ingredients in Wellness Canned Turkey

Purina Veterinary Canned NF: Water sufficient for processing, liver, beef, poultry by-products, trout, rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), ground yellow corn, animal digest, pea fiber, wheat flour, calcium carbonate, potassium citrate, fish oil, potassium chloride, magnesium citrate, taurine, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, niacin, thiamine mononitrate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, calcium pantothenate, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin supplement, biotin, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, menadione sodium bisulfite complex.

The highlighted red are ingredients I question - the corn, wheat, pea fibre and rice are unneccessary fillers and are the cause of many allergies in pets, "poultry" "animal fat" "animal digest" and "fish oil" do not give the animal source, there are several types of poultry and fish and what source are they using for "animal...."? For example many pets are allergic to chicken by are okay with Turkey in this food there is no distinction between these 2 types of poultry.

Wellness Canned Turkey: Turkey, Chicken Liver, Chicken, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Natural Chicken Flavor, Sweet Potatoes, Squash, Zucchini, Cranberries, Blueberries, Guar Gum, Carrageenan, Ground Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Iron Proteinate (a source of Chelated Iron), Beta-Carotene, Zinc Proteinate (a source of Chelated Zinc), Vitamin E Supplement, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Proteinate (a source of Chelated Cobalt), Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate (a source of Chelated Copper), Folic Acid, Manganese Proteinate (a source of Chelated Manganese), Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Biotin.

You will find a lot of information and links in my cat's kidney failure thread here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017

I have been dealing with this disease for over a year now, my 17 year old cat is maintained very well on whole food supplements and a raw meat diet. She has no issues with nausea & is showing no symptoms except the usual extra drinking & peeing that goes with the territory.

If you have any questions please let me know I will be happy to help. for your cat