question about pet stores

[raingirl]

I'm confused when you guys talk about not buying from pets stores. Not that I am planning on buying from a pet store, I just need clarification on something.

My friend works at a large pet store in southern Ontario as a groomer. She told me that all their pets for sale come from local foster homes/shelters. What they do is cycle the pets around every day or couple of days and they keep lists and pics for people when they see an animal and come back, so they aren't confused why the pet is gone.

Why would it be bad to buy from a pet store then? I was under the impression that all pets in stores come from shelters/fosters.

[heidiho]

Iknow like Petsmart and Petco the animals come from shelters,here they do.But petstores in the mall they do not,god only knows where they come form.

[Babs]

I know that PetSmart now only carries adoption animals from local Humane Societies.

But the small pet shops, the ones you generally see in strip-malls and such often get the animals through puppy mills and backyard breeders.

I would also be very cautious about buying Puppies in the Newspaper.

There are two main reasons not to buy animals from puppy mills or backyard breeders.

1) The first and most important issues deals with genetics. People who have no idea what they are doing could be crossing diseased animals, or in mill situations they perform too much inbreeding. As a result puppies are born with defects both physical and psychological in nature. Some of these defects could result in aggression which is difficult to control.

2) By supplying puppy mills and breeders with an economy to operate, we only encourage them to continue creating problem animals. If people stopped buying their animals, they will become overrun and will stop breeding.

Because the government is either not seeing the problem, or is ignoring it, the only thing we can do is try to break the supply chain by spreading the word about this very big problem.

In fact, I wouldn't hesitate to say BYBs and Mills are a major cause for sporadic dog bites, where the dog was otherwise a well trained animal. Psychological problems are difficult to detect, and are identified usually when it's too late, if not at all.

[OnlyInMyDreams]

Good to know.. I didnt know that about the puppy places in malls. I was always told that they were very cautious as to what puppies they carry. When you buy them they come with guarantees and they pet for the vet bills if something was to happen to them such as illness, not including accidental injury.

[Babs]

Best rule of thumb is to ask a lot of questions about the animals a store is carrying.

They should be able to tell you where the animals come from, and provide the contact information of either the breeders or the shelters from which the animals came.

If they cannot, you're probably dealing with a vendor for BYBs or Puppy Mills.

If you get breeder contact info, make sure you contact the breeder and ask for credentials. If it's just someone whose dog got pregnant because it was intact, I would be very cautious.

[raingirl]

ok....phew....I'm not crazy then. I don't see "mall" petstores anymore. They are all big box stores here, like petsmart or pjs pets.

because I don't own a car, it's hard to go see fosters/shelters (there are no shelters in brampton).

If the pets at our local pet store do come from a shelter/foster, is there any advantage/disadvantage to buying at a petstore. I'm sure they jack up the price or something...

(sorry, I'm new to this)

We are looking to get a dog before winter hits, so we have some time in the fall to romp outside before the snow hits. Once this snow hits, it might be harder to do any training etc being so cold out and snow 3 feet high!

[Writing4Fun]

I didn't think places like PetSmart jacked up the prices on these animals. I was under the impression that they were simply providing the space to a local shelter free of charge, and that the shelter volunteers were there to handle the adoption process.

[raingirl]

I don't know if they do. I've never been in petsmart before, but was thinking of checking the one out on Sunday near where I will be running some errands.

I know the dogs at ****** pets are super expensive, so I figured they jacked up the prices. Maybe they aren't shelter dogs.

[Shae]

Stay clear of ******* for sure.....and other pet stores. Why would you buy frm a petstore when there are so many unwanted needy loving pets that are desperate for a home. We won't even mention how many are on deathrow.

[Sneaky2006]

I don't know about anywhere else but there is always tons of rescues at our local ******!

[Donna Marie]

I think I have learned a lot from here. A customer of mine (I'm in the computer industry) asked me to talk to one of his customers about pet store pets (I guess I talk about it alot). I think I convinced him not to buy one from them....he did know about puppy mills but he didn't know about puppy brokers. We have a local Petsmart and they adopt out rescues.

[Shae]

Alongside *****...........
******...... Check out the link

*******

[Shae]

Here are some letters written by current and / or previous ******* employees.

Store #733

Cambridge, Mass.

A former ******** employee told PETA that dying animals were deprived of water and medication in this store’s sick room, which apparently was an unventilated “closet” where temperatures reached 90°F. Animals were kept in filthy cages. Fish regularly died of ich and cannibalized one another. A bird was cannibalized by cagemates. Animals who tipped over their water had to “wait another full day before they got more.”

Note: ******* responded to this complaint and sent PETA the following:
“[T]he [District Manager went] to the store to physically review the wellness area and assess the situation. Here is the outcome of the investigation:
• the room is currently at 75 degrees
• the room has both heating and cooling systems that are full functioning
• the room has an exhaust fan that is full functioning
• the wellness room is visited hourly as part of our "hourly animal health check" and the [District Manager] verified this by the signed logs
• the room is extremely clean and the two animals in the room have been to the vet and are under vet care”


August 11, 2004
Unknown location

A current ******* employee told PETA that (s)he was “disgusted at the lack of concern for the animals” in ******* and that animals who were “sick and dying” arrived “constantly” at the store. The complainant wrote that “cruelty” to animals “happens behind the scenes” at the store.


August 10, 2004
Unknown location

A former ******* employee told PETA that (s)he resigned after coworkers failed to treat a snake who was suffering from skin rot. The animal, who had been kept in a humid habitat, died of the ensuing condition. The complainant wrote that animals who were sick or dying were found “every day” in the store. Birds suffered from respiratory distress, and fish died of ich. Mice cannibalized the remains of their cagemates, and lizards, frogs, and iguanas starved to death.


August 07, 2004
Unknown store number

New York, N.Y.

A complainant told PETA that (s)he was “disturbed” to find two obviously ill parrots on display in cages by themselves at a ***** store. One bird was plucking his feathers out, while the other “kept bobbing his head back and forth.” An employee who was notified of the situation acknowledged that the animals were acting as they were because they were “lonely.”


Unknown location

A current ****** employee told PETA that “90%” of his or her coworkers neglect animals and do not clean enclosures. One hamster tank had not been cleaned for so long that a razor blade had to be used to remove the accumulated urine. A cockatoo was kept in an enclosure that was approximately one-third the recommended size. Another bird who had already been moved from another store to the complainant’s location was “shuffled” to a third store for its grand opening.

August 04, 2004
Unknown store number

Washington

An apparent ****** grooming employee told PETA that “horror stories” about ***** groomers are “so bad” that (s)he “want[s] to quit.”


July 29, 2004
Store #559

San Diego, Calif.

A former ******* employee told PETA that animals were kept in “horrible,” overcrowded enclosures that went “days” without being cleaned.

July 28, 2004
Unknown location

A former ***** manager told PETA that animals suffered from respiratory infections, mites, and untreated injuries on a weekly basis. Managers said that a snake whose jaw was found to be broken was suffering from “mouth rot.” A lizard died after being fed only cat food and deprived of a heat source. The complainant’s concerns about animal suffering were not taken seriously by supervisors.


July 21, 2004
Unknown location

A former ****** manager told PETA that (s)he was disciplined for taking sick and injured animals to a veterinarian. The complainant wrote that many small animals who were suffering from respiratory infections were not provided with veterinary care. Ferrets who appeared to be unweaned were sold, and as many as seven turtles were being kept in an enclosure that was designed for just one.


July 15, 2004
Store #1908
Midland, Mich.

A former ****** employee told PETA that birds infected with psittacosis—a potentially fatal bacterial disease that is transmissible to humans through dried waste—were denied treatment and kept in filthy cages after six outbreaks in the past year. The complainant reported that the housing, food, and water provided for birds were all “unacceptable” and that some food was spoiled. Obviously ill, listless birds who had “ragged” feathers and were covered in bloody droppings were on display. Birds were seen attacking one another, and at least 26 birds were being kept in the store’s back room.

July 12, 2004
Unknown location

A former ******* employee told PETA that several birds who had been injured in shipping were dead when they arrived at the store. The injured survivors, including one who was later found to have a broken leg, were placed on display. “[T]wo were placed in a freezer” alive and left to freeze to death. Tick-covered reptiles were denied veterinary care by the store manager and were sold. Animals were kept in filthy enclosures, and at least five died after the parasites spread.

[Shae]

And I spoke personally to a former ****** worker. What he confided was disgusting.....
We'll most likely be boycotting some of the ****** stores in the not so far off future. Cruelty is cruelty. Animal have the right not to be abused.It's time these rights were recognised.

[heeler's rock!]

I know that here in Calgary, Petsmart doesn't sell any puppies, cats, ferrets, and so on. They do sell hampsters and rabbits I think. On the weekends, local rescue organizations all gather there to showcase certain animals up for adoption. People get the chance to meet the animals and ask questions about them. When rescuing an animal, you don't always have to see it before hand. I rescued Helix from Sask. and drove to Lloydminster to pick him up. They give you all the info. they have and allow you a "trial" type period as they know it's hard to just get a dog from far away. Noone can predict how it will be.

Does anyone know about ******? I know they have the *******, but they also sell puppies. Do the for sale puppies come from puppy mills? They are all unregisterable and some are crosses that they charge $500-$1000 dollars for!! One lady said that she was looking into getting a puppy from there a few years ago and they wanted $2500.00!!!!!!!! I think it was a Golden Retriever!!! I think itis hypocritical of ****** to sell puppies from mills, and yet rescue them and adopt them out......

[Sneaky2006]

If that is the case with ******, why would shelters/rescues support them by adopting out their animals there?

[Shae]

Many don't actually. And not all shelters are up to par.....really need to investigate them. For instance for the longest time we all stood behind the *****......now look at all the controversy. Cheech is a prime example. And the dog who was accidently euthanised less than 24 hrs.
Dont get me wrong, I support shelters,etc.....it's just not always black and white, you know? A lot happens behind closed doors. If they have nothing to hide, they wont mind allowing you to view the facility in the back rooms....where many have "extras" And, hey, they are not all the same either........but ****** in general, at the present is under a microscope. Hopefully they clean up their act. Also, remember, it's not all that hard to allow ppl to think you're a rescue when in fact you have a puppymill going on. This is a common occurance. Best bet.....keep eyes open and ask questions...and always find referrals

[chico2]

I would defineltly,without question stay away from ***** pets,ALL their animals come from questionable suppliers and you can pay up to $800 for a mix breed puppy.Don't give them your business,you'll be very sorry.
Petsmart and others here in Oakville only charge an adoptionfee for their animals and they are from the local Humane Society.

[Shae]

I haven't heard anything negative about Petsmart. Mind you I havent gone in one to view the facility either. If they prove the have rescues and are onyl charging adoption fees, you're prob good to go. Chico, tell me, they are spayed and neutered I presume before they leave the shop? Do they do a check on the prospective new owners?

[chico2]

Shae,I cannot speak for all PetSmart stores,but the one here in Oakville,adopting out cats only,keep them in a very nice clean area..lots of space to play and places to sleep.
I would assume,I don't know,but since they are HS cats,the same rules would apply as if you are adopting from HS.
Many of the cats are adult beauties and they would already have been spayed/neutered,if a kitten,you pay a certain amount and after you have the kitten altered you get some of the money back.At least that is the way it used to be.Nowadays they alter kittens very young,so HS probably does it before the kitten is adopted out,hence the higher price.
The Oakville HS is very good,has a good reputation and they do not euthanize unless absolutely necessary.They have an old GSD who has been there for almost 3 yrs,with behaviour-problems definetly not ideal,but he gets a lot of loving care by the staff.

[sammiec]

Originally Posted by raingirl

ok....phew....I'm not crazy then. I don't see "mall" petstores anymore. They are all big box stores here, like petsmart or pjs pets.

***** is a chain store located in MANY malls (including the *****) - those animals are from BYB and Puppy Mills. [B]DO NOT buy ANY animals for *******B]

because I don't own a car, it's hard to go see fosters/shelters (there are no shelters in brampton).

Sure there are!!! There's the City of Brampton Shelter at Williams and Chrysler Drive. They are actually a wonderful shelter (for a shelter) and there's an SPCA on Main St. (Hwy 10)

If the pets at our local pet store do come from a shelter/foster, is there any advantage/disadvantage to buying at a petstore. I'm sure they jack up the price or something...

There is NO advantage from buying a pet from a petstore. They are ALL BYB and Puppy Mill dogs. There are unknowledgable people in my building that have bought pets from ****** and ALL of them have had problems with their dogs!! ALL OF THEM!!! Please DO NOT support these people and businesses!!

We are looking to get a dog before winter hits, so we have some time in the fall to romp outside before the snow hits. Once this snow hits, it might be harder to do any training etc being so cold out and snow 3 feet high!

There is no need to rush into getting a dog. I waited about a year before I found the one that I wanted. We got our on Dec 27 and we had no issues with training and walking during the cold weather, we just got our puppy a coat and some booties and we were good to go!

edited to add: A ****** that I know of has people that have been known to abuse animals in the grooming area. They have had animals come in and a groomer has hit them and kicked them out of her way. They have cut the quick and done nothing to sooth the animal's discomfort. This lady was fired because she was ratted out.
***** and ****** do sell gerbels, ferrets, hamsters, rabbits, mice, rats, and birds. These animals do come from BYB and mills as well.

As far as I am aware, the kittens/cats that are at these places do come from the local HS. SOme locations only bring them in on Saturdays and some have nice little areas for the cats to play with a climbing tree etc.

[Shae]

See, I refuse to buy at a petstore EVER.....I think it's wonderful if Petsmart,etc are adopting out shelter pets,etc.....BUT...like someone else mentioned, what about "other" species/breeds? Are they ALL shelter adptions OR just "some?" Its an all or nothing situation for me. So many animals on death row including dogs,cats,rabbits, rodents, etc,etc.....
Chico........about the GSD, I think it's great that they refuse e&a

[Shae]

[CENTER]Thought you might find this interesting.

Imagine if this were your dog

Petcetera offers $5,000 reward to solve dognapping

Matthew Ramsey
The Province


Friday, September 03, 2004

How much is that doggy in the window?

Petcetera has posted a $5,000 reward for the return of Chingoo, a Shih Tzu cross, mistakenly returned to the wrong person after a grooming session at a Vancouver store Aug. 31.

Chingoo's owner, Teddy Lee, says he took the small white dog with brown freckles on its belly into the Petcetera at 2876 Rupert for a pre-paid grooming at 1 p.m. Lee, 27, informed staff that either he or his mother would pick up the three-year-old dog. He was told to collect Chingoo, Korean for "friend," at 4:30 p.m. that day.

When he came to gather up his cherished canine, Lee was advised that an older Asian male had already claimed the dog, asking for the animal by name.

The problem is, Lee doesn't know of any older Asian men who would have picked the dog up in his or his mother's place.

The search for Chingoo was on.

"They know that it's a huge mistake on their part," Lee said of Petcetera. "They are willing to do whatever they can to help."

So far Petcetera has contacted all 34 stores in the chain to advise them of the apparent dognapping, posted signs in each store, called B.C. animal shelters, other groomers and the SPCA and topped off recovery efforts with a $5,000 reward.

Lee has sent out more than 100 letters to vets in the Lower Mainland.

Petcetera owner Daniel Urbani told The Province the mistake is the first of its kind in the seven-year history of the business that has seen approximately 500,000 dogs and cats groomed.

"The company is distraught over it," Urbani said last night.

The intent of the reward is to help recover Chingoo as soon as possible. Somebody may have inadvertently purchased the animal from the unidentified man, who Urbani said appears to have planned the incident.

Petcetera is also in the process of reevaluating its policies and procedures when it comes to returning pets to their owners. The Chingoo case was difficult to avoid because the man who took the dog asked for it by name and staff had been told that someone else might pick him up, Urbani said.

"Everything seemed to be very normal," Urbani said.

Chingoo is white with shades of brown, about 30 cm tall, 45 cm long, 7 kg, with brown freckles on his belly. The dog is not neutered, was not wearing a collar or implanted with a microchip, and does not have an ID tattoo in his ear. Lee said Chingoo is very friendly and usually turns his head at a 45-degree angle when called. Anyone with information should call Teddy or Christine Lee at 604-897-7709 or 604-537-7255.

n West Vancouver police are asking for help in finding an $800 Senegal parrot named Ben. The bird disappeared from Noah's Pet Ark Aug. 31. Ben has grey feathers on his head and yellow, green and orange feathers on his chest. Call 604-925-7300 with information.

mramsey@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Province 2004

[carey]

The two PetSmarts in Ottawa only have cats that are from the humane society, and use an adoption contract. They don't take dogs because of the work involved.
****** in Montreal have cages filled with "pedigreed" and AKC registered dogs from the U.S! They are selling around $1500.

[RuffNTumble]

I hate name-dropping, but I have to agree that ***** Pets boggles my mind. Who would pay $900 for a "Lab Collie X" when they can get the same puppy from a shelter for less than $100?
Health guarantees? HA! THe last time I was at my vet's, she was RAGING because she had a 10 week old puppy in her care with Parvo and because "the owner signed the contract", ***** was taking NO responsability! Can you imagine??? You have brand new puppy, and it's already dying! That's disgusting!!!
Granted, the supposed "rescue" I got my current dog from seems to be just as shady as ****** It's safe to say we were mislead about her age, habits and background. She is not the dog we thought we were adopting, but we still love her to bits!!
Backyard breeders are scary too. My parents got a Seal Point Siamese from someone breeding cats in their house, and she had to be put down at 3 years of age because she had a congenital heart defect and couldn't cope with an infection.

And yet, my parents STILL have their 9 year old Siamese cat Chanel, fit as a fiddle, and from a dingy pet store in an even dingier mall. All I can say is they were REALLY lucky.

The best thing to do is to do a LOT of research. Research the breed you want, which one fits your lifestyle, research the rescue, or the store, READ ALL THE FINE print and ask lots of questions.

Look at it this way, would a reputable breeder really need to ship off their puppies to a store? A lot of them breed by reservation (only have a litter when they have enough interested adopters) so they are usually not without "leftover" puppies.

I looked around for months before settling on my first dog, a great dane from a rescue, and they do so much digging around on you, you know they're doing what's best for the dog. For our neo mastiff, it was meet the dog, give the money, and a questionnaire. Not to say it was bad, but we didn't have the same "safe" feeling as with our dane. But she was in need, and that's all that matters!

Ruffy

[Sheriffmom]

If you want to read a tragic story about buying pets from Petstores go to ******* Then to the heading BEWARE. It's about a lady who bought a French Bulldog from ****** and the horror she had to endure. Keep in mind that ******* is still operating.
Also, our trainer stated that she sees many puppy's in her class each semester who have to be put down due to temperment issues, weird genetic problems, and strange health issues. She stated that a lot of petstores buy from puppy broakers and puppymills, who breed substandered dogs, and who cross breed dogs simply for their looks. When a dog is bred simply for looks you can (and do) end up with strange and weird new health issues. She said they are bred so they look cute in the window, and it makes you want to buy one. She said some of the worst of these "cute breeds" are the Eskipoo's. Some of these "new" breeds are not only un-healthy, but have extreamly poor temperments (i.e extreamly agressive). And remeber petstores cannot sell CKC registered dogs, so you have little recourse if something is wrong with your dog.
To be fair and honest not every dog from a petstore will be unhealthy/ bad tempered. But you run a high risk, with little recourse. You also perpetuate a huge problem with regards to puppymills, and the terrible treatment of animals.
If you really want a petstore pet, try calling your local humane society to see if any local puppymills have recently been shut down..... if so you may be able to adopt one of the seized pups.

[Writing4Fun]

Originally Posted by RuffNTumble

Who would pay $900 for a "Lab Collie X" when they can get the same puppy from a shelter for less than $100?

The same people who would pay upwards of $1500CDN for a something-poo from a "breeder".

[raingirl]

It seems every time I read posts here, I get more and more confused.

I can't remember who said this, but I was told there are no shelters/rescues in Brampton. We saw the SPCA booth at the farmers market saturday, but they only told us to look at www.petfinder.com. Where is "williams and crystler drive"?? And where is the SPCA on main st? (is it walking distance from the 4 corners??)

When we go to petfinder, there are never any Brampton locations to look at animals. That's why we considered petsmart (again, the no car issue). Of course, this weekend we realized there are no petsmarts in brampton, only superpet. They have an adoption centre, but didn't give us details on how it works (we only dropped by for a minute to check the place out). I guess we thought it would be easier if there is a store that would bring animals in from other places for us to see, as opposed to just looking online. Taking a bus to see only one animal is time consuming, when we could see many at once at a store (assuming that the ones coming to the stores are the ones posted online from the shelters)

[Shae]

Don't Buy from a Breeder. Don't Buy from a Pet Shop, RESCUE an animal instead!

The Distressing Fate Of A Shelter Dog



http://www.spotsociety.org/fatedog.html

[Goldenmom]

The Petsmart here in Kitchener does not sell any dogs/cats unless from our local shelters. You are charged an adoption fee, which I am sure is somehow split between the Shelters and Petsmart, although I am not sure.

Heather