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Ear cropping?

rebel24
July 10th, 2004, 05:29 PM
Just thought I'd some word out incase you didn't know they are trying to ban ear cropping in Cali. Good/Bad any thoughts......


http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=ear+cropping+bans&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Db a2fdb6bd8ea3eaa%26clickedItemRank%3D3%26userQuery% 3Dear%2Bcropping%2Bbans%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%25 3A%252F%252Fwww.cirp.org%252Fnews%252F1996.07.16_C olumbusDispatch%252F%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DnsBrowserRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cirp.org%2Fnews%2F1996 .07.16_ColumbusDispatch%2F]click here

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 05:30 PM
Ear cropping is cruel I'm all for it! :D

rebel24
July 10th, 2004, 05:31 PM
I know I don't have any dogs that have it done.

LavenderRott
July 10th, 2004, 05:44 PM
Well, I am just gonna waltz in here, give my opinion and run like he!!.

First off, I will be upfront and admit that one of the things I like about my rottweiler is her tail, or lack thereof. A Doberman with natural tail and ears looks just like a black and tan coonhound.

Having said that, I think that the State of California has many more important issues to deal with besides tails and ears. And if you think that making it illegal to have it done in the State is going to stop people from having it done, well, think again. Tails will either be banded with no medical supervision, or pups will be taken out of state to have it done. As for ears, I hear a lot of pit fighters do ears themselves with a pair of kitchen scissors.

If you want to put an end to animal cruelty, then go after the really important things. Dogs chained up in backyards with food thrown at them whenever the mood strikes. Puppy mill dogs stuff in cages, having puppies 2 or 3 times a year (if the hormone injection works right) and living in their own excrement.

Enforce the leash laws that are on the books. The same with the rest of the laws you have in place. When a state can actually enforce the laws that they have already put in place, then they can make more. But it seems to me that so far, California is having a hard time enforcing existing laws.

Duck and Cover!

rebel24
July 10th, 2004, 06:05 PM
Well I understand your poistion (sp.) I myself am on the fence about the whole thing. But from several other articles I have read this is an across the board kinda thing. Other countries are starting this or have already banned it. And the say it is just a matter of time before it is wide spread here.

LavenderRott
July 10th, 2004, 06:14 PM
In some parts of Europe, it has been illegal for years. But I don't live in Europe, nor do I want to.

If these procedures are done properly, and by a qualified veterinarian, then they are no more painful then a spay/neuter. They are certainly not something I would condone someone doing at home. I am stronly against someone putting a rubber band around an 8 week old puppy's tail and waiting for it to fall of. THAT is cruel.

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 06:16 PM
I see your point LavR there are pros and cons

Some dogs have very little 'tail' and it gets injured if not docked simply because of the way they've been bred over time.

I don't believe in cropping and docking simply for the purpose of how it looks. Rather I do believe in it for preventing injury.

Dobies look just fine with natural ears and non docked tails, I think they tend to look really sweet that way.

Cocker spaniels get docked too, and I've seen some non docked ones and they have substantial tails that aren't weak and fragile.

melanie
July 10th, 2004, 06:30 PM
is ther any health reason for cropping ears, i dont see any reason for it to be done, except perhaps asthetics for the owners. if there was a health reason yeah sure, in those breeds affected, but other wise no i totally disagree with the practice and it should be totally illeagle, that is unless the dog walks up and says "look, im not feeling too attractive at the moment because of my ears, i feel kinda dorky, could we fix it" :D .

LavenderRott
July 10th, 2004, 06:31 PM
That is the wonderful thing about the country I live in. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.

glasslass
July 10th, 2004, 06:37 PM
I'd be happy if Den-Den had his full tail. Just my own thought. I understand there are reasons sometime for having it done. Friend of mine had her boxer's ears done. She later said it was really an ordeal and she would never put a dog through that again. Hate for it to be illegal though and still be performed under less than ideal conditions.

LavenderRott
July 10th, 2004, 06:41 PM
It's kind of like abortions, you know.

Right now they are legal, good doctors do them and young girls live another day. Hopefully wiser.

If they are illegal, then some money hungry doctor with dirty instruments, dirty tables and no training does them and young girls die.

Whether or not I agree with abortion is irrelevant. The fact that young desperate girls live is very relevant.

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Okay kinda off topic but dink cropping for petophiles now THERE's a good idear ;)

rebel24
July 10th, 2004, 06:48 PM
THis is kinda the way I see it. If a breed wants to have the ears done or tails done fine have done before you see the pups. If not I won't pay extra money to have the procedure done. I really see no reason either done except for a good medical reasons not because you like the way it looks. jmo....

melanie
July 10th, 2004, 06:50 PM
oh lavender i toatally agree.
but please, i dont understand, i have never know a dog with cropped ears, out of interest why is it done??
oh luba, great idea, shall i go and get my scizzors, iwill do it all for free, my little gift to society, ha ha, snip snip mongrels

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 06:52 PM
You can even make some money off of the dink cropping

Advertise it on the net, pay per view

OH I'm so sick!

Shushing now

glasslass
July 10th, 2004, 07:11 PM
Just a thought. If made illegal, wouldn't AKC have to change the standards for breeds? :confused:

rebel24
July 10th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Yep, and the AKC is none to happy about it either.

LavenderRott
July 10th, 2004, 07:55 PM
Neither are the people with the breeds in question! When the breeds were developed, ears were cropped and tails docked for a reason. While these reasons may not be relevant anymore, the breed standard, both physical and tempermental are what these dogs are to be bred too.

We have enough people *******izing our breeds now, mix anything with a freaking poodle and low and behold it is a new breed. If everyone is so worried about a pit bulls temperment, I am sure that it can be corrected by breeding it to a nice poodle. We can call it a pitti-poo.

Sorry. I am in a cruddy mood and just rarin' for a fight.

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 07:59 PM
Pitty-POO OMG LavR don't give those nutjobs anything to think about YIPERS!

Or it could be called a Pittoodle :p

Lucky Rescue
July 10th, 2004, 10:58 PM
but please, i dont understand, i have never know a dog with cropped ears, out of interest why is it done??

It's done for cosmetic reasons - people like the look of it. I would never crop my dog's ears, because I like pit bulls with natural ears!:)

I must say I love the looked of a cropped Dobie, but can't say I would do it to a puppy of mine. And Dobies were bred to have docked tails, and their own natural tails are often extremely bony and easily injured, unlike the thick strong tails of Labs, for example.

Actually, pit bulls should have docked tails!! Those things really hurt when whipped against your shins. :p

Luba
July 10th, 2004, 11:00 PM
I've seen a lot of pits with damaged tail ends because they wag them so much they smack them against everything and the tips bleed.

Seen 'many' shelter pits like that actually.

I do love the 'look' of the dobie cropped ears but would never ever do it to a puppy. I would only do anything like this if necessary.

We get to choose our cosmetic surgery, we shouldn't choose for them unless they 'need' it is my opinion.

glasslass
July 11th, 2004, 02:41 AM
Some breeds have cropped ears so that when fighting, the other dog can't latch on to them. Not a particularly noble reason. Why don't cockers have cropped ears? They are prone to a lot of ear problems with that heavy flap and long hair. :eek:

MBRA518
July 11th, 2004, 07:50 AM
If these procedures are done properly, and by a qualified veterinarian, then they are no more painful then a spay/neuter. They are certainly not something I would condone someone doing at home. I am stronly against someone putting a rubber band around an 8 week old puppy's tail and waiting for it to fall of. THAT is cruel.


I agree with the ear thing - when I was a kid we had a 1/2 dob with the ears done.... I don't disagree with others doing it "properly" - I however like the natural ears better.

As to the rubber banding - not that I've ever done it - or would consider to (our boxers were done by the vet) But is it cruel - or less painful? The reason I ask is - we had a horse born with a hernia and the way the vet fixed it was knocked him out, rolled him on his back so everything would fall back in, then used small pieces of wood and rubber bands to cramp the area of the hernia - pulling the 2 sides together and making them heal together properly.... the result was a nicely healed hernia and the clamped tissure just fell off. This was our vets preferred way to deal with a small hernia as it was less painful - and required no surgery, so it was much safer from an infection point of view. - Just wondering if that would be the same for the tail?

LavenderRott
July 11th, 2004, 08:16 AM
Tails are a bit different. There is spinal cord and lots of nerves. When you dock a puppies tail, it needs to be done the first couple of days after birth. Bones aren't fully formed, etc. To put a rubber band around an older puppy's tail can do a lot of damage and cause a lot of pain.

glasslass
July 11th, 2004, 08:22 AM
I seem to remember that is the way (rubber bands) that lambs are/were done? Now that I think about it, don't know that I've ever noticed what kind of tail sheep have. :rolleyes:

MBRA518
July 11th, 2004, 09:30 AM
Tails are a bit different. There is spinal cord and lots of nerves. When you dock a puppies tail, it needs to be done the first couple of days after birth. Bones aren't fully formed, etc. To put a rubber band around an older puppy's tail can do a lot of damage and cause a lot of pain.

oh - ok.... i guess that makes sence.

Cactus Flower
July 11th, 2004, 12:16 PM
First of all, thanks to Luba, Lavendar and GlassLass (among others), for such prompt respones, warm welcomes and good advice when I joined this site less than a week ago!


I guess I'll throw in my two cents on the cropping issue here, as I've enjoyed reading so many diverse opinions throughout.

I don't believe in cropping to make any animal look the way WE think they should look. I think God did a fine job creating them as He saw fit.

That said, I have a friend who uses dogs to hunt (another issue entirely, don't get me started lol), and he insists that without cropping, they'd get shredded by thorny bushes, brambles etc.

People, myself included, tend to get a fixed image of a breed in their mind. As an example, when I imagine a Doberman, I imagine it with cropped ears and tail. But if I had one, I would not have the cropping done. I have a Great Dane, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard "That is a HUGE labrador!", because of her big floppy ears. When I say "She's a Dane, her ears aren't cropped" it clicks with them: "Oh yeah...she IS a Great Dane...". People just imagine a Dane with the cropped ears. It's a fixed image.

Luba
July 11th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Hey like my Sadie's boyfriend Tanner :D

melanie
July 11th, 2004, 05:05 PM
actually come to think of it, i know a huge rottie X lab and he has his tail, he hit me in the face once when i was on the floor, gosh it hurt, but then maybe i shoulnt have been on the floor, lol. :D and we lived with a staffie years ago, called ziggy of course, and he still had his tail, i would imagine one would have to look hard for a vet to do it around here, i know my vet wouldnt. (it has just become illeagle here unless done by vet and many dont like it, oh well it just show our laws dont move fast, shocking and horrific to think up till june people could do it at home). i must admit a while back i saw a car with a lg sticker that screamed "i support tail docking' and i do admit it made me furious, i gave them a bit of a hard time for it, but if one wants to display their beliefs on a car like that, when it is such a controversial issue here, well i have the right to disagree, sorry ladies. :o .
glassy, yes little lambs have their tails docked. most farmers use a little metal ring and put that on the tail and it comes off, some pigs (meaning human pigs) use thick rubberbands though, and that sucks, surley it takes longer and could cause probs as opposed to the ring. it is very important to dock a sheeps tail, if it is not done there is great the danger of the sheep becoming flyblown (i dont know about other countries, only aus). that is horrid condition for a sheep, the fly lays maggots in the bum and the tail helps the sheeps dropping to stick around and the maggots go wild and eventually the sheep must be killed after a very painful experience. with sheep it doesnt seem painful, they dont seem to care really, and most well experienced sheep farmers do it swiftly and efficiently. and sheep can still become flyblown even with no tail, but it is easier to control with no tail. poor little lambs.

LavenderRott
July 11th, 2004, 07:41 PM
Not owning a breed with cropped ears, I will admit that I am not an expert as in why it was done in the past. I will say that a couple of hundred years ago, when most of these breeds were developed, tail docking and ear cropping were not done for cosmetic reasons. Rottweilers were bred to be carting and herding dogs. Tails and carts don't mix well.

Cactus Flower
July 11th, 2004, 09:31 PM
Luba, Tanner is gorgeous, and I LOVE his floppy uncropped ears! (Wish I knew how to imbed pictures into my text, like you did, rather than attaching them).

Luba
July 11th, 2004, 10:13 PM
No I attached that one too :D
It's just if you attach more then one pic they come up as a list instead of on the screen :D

Cactus Flower
July 12th, 2004, 12:33 AM
Ah geez, that's a forehead-slapper, huh?

Thank you Luba!

Here's my uncropped baby.....Just a few days after we got her. She was very thin and malnourished and definitely looks better now. But all of my other pics were too large a file.

glasslass
July 12th, 2004, 01:42 AM
I like the ears natural! First time I've seen a GD with natural ears! Looks like a "hoity-toity lab". At first, I couldn't take my eyes off her paws. :eek: They're huge! Pretty dog! :)

Lucky Rescue
July 12th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Absolutely beautiful!!:)

Catt31
July 12th, 2004, 10:02 AM
Okay kinda off topic but dink cropping for petophiles now THERE's a good idear ;)

OMG Luba, I've been saying that for YEARS!!!! Only way to stop them I figure!!! :D


A lady came into the store yesterday with a dobe, cropped ears and tails and only 9 months old, and had just recently had a litter. The lady said her friend rescued this dog from a puppy farm, and they had to crop her ears because they were frostbitten. She had a bunch of other stuff she was blabbering on about, but I'm not sure, I think its a bunch of HOOEY!!!! I never asked about the dog, I just commented on how pretty she was!!! Hmmmmm, strange eh??

Gorgeous baby, Cactus Flower!!! :D

Luba
July 12th, 2004, 11:42 AM
That one sounds full of poopies to me Catt!!! Fishy fishy fishy!


Cactus your baby is sooooo gorgeous!!
How do you find that harness for walks?

Cactus Flower
July 12th, 2004, 11:51 AM
Thanks, all! And yes, she is extremely "hoity toity" now, but she deserves my spoiling......the junkies that had her were very neglectful and abusive, and she was about to be sold for methamphetamine- since she's papered and many people out here want to buy a registered dane for (over-)breeding. Luckily my good friend (a judge) stepped in, and got them to give her to me. Long story. But she's spayed and fat and happy now!

As for the pedophile cropping.....lovely idea, but it would not work, unfortunately. In my field (forensic psychology), you learn that there is no cure for pedophilia. Cropping them would only result in their using other...methods...to abuse :mad:

Spoiled
July 12th, 2004, 05:06 PM
This thread got just a bit long, so I didn't read all of it, but I think that tail docking and ear cropping are cruel.

Doing it just for style is horrible. You don't take the noses off people's faces, the toes off their feet, the fingers off their hands, or their ears off their heads just for style. Why would you want to do this to the poor person?

But on dogs people think its just fine. Cut the poor dog's ears off and his tail as well. Isn't this just as cruel as doing it to a person?

The person who we bought Bentley from said that she didn't dock his tail, even though he is a poodle x because it is cruel and she could never think of doing something to hurt a dog. I feel that way to.

glasslass
July 12th, 2004, 11:00 PM
On the other hand, millions of women have gotten :mad: breast implants and models have had their lower rib removed to make a smaller waist. All in the name of "beauty".

Catt31
July 13th, 2004, 07:44 AM
I agree Luba...fishhhyyyyyy!!!! Weird lady!!! LOL

IMO - At least humans can MAKE that choice for themselves (to lose a rib, or gain a boob or two), dogs unfortunately can't speak for themselves, and rely on their owners to make smart decisions for them! Many people don't have those smarts and do stupid things like crop their ears or tails. I'm sure if we asked every stubby tailed dog if they'd rather have their tails, they'd say "YES". God gave them tails for a reason, I think we should KEEP them there!! I would never cut off a toe just to fit into a cool pair of shoes!! :eek:

sammiec
July 13th, 2004, 08:30 AM
AMEN Catt - excellent post. I think that sums it up right there!!! :D

LavenderRott
July 13th, 2004, 09:02 AM
If I didn't know better, I would be offended by being called stupid because my dog has a cropped tail. I am not.

What does offend me are people who do not take the time to at least understand another person's point of view and then refers to a large group of people who don't think the way they do as stupid.

Oh, and millions of baby boys are mutilated by their parents every single year.

Lucky Rescue
July 13th, 2004, 09:14 AM
If a person is 100% sure they will keep their Dobie or Rottie for it's lifetime - fine, don't crop or dock if you don't want to.

But as we know, the sad reality is that a large portion of the population sees pets as disposible and temporary objects.

An uncropped and undocked Dobie, or undocked Rottie has much less chance of being adopted.:(

Rotties in particular are being dumped in record numbers - 3000 on Petfinder - and anything that makes them more adoptable is necessary, and a 5 year old Dobie who looks like a coonhound is likely to die in a shelter. Those are the facts.:(

sammiec
July 13th, 2004, 09:17 AM
I wouldn't say that you're stupid LavR. You rescued Chase, that doesn't make you stupid, because you didn't crop it, I don't think. I agree with Catt's post because it's true that the animals don't have an option, it's only what the people like.
I would not think twice about adopting a dog that had cropped ears and a cropped tail, that's not their fault; they deserve love just the same. I think that it's cruel the people that take this decision into their own hands and because THEY like it, the dog should go through pain for THEM. Sorry if that's offensive. :D

glasslass
July 13th, 2004, 09:52 AM
LavR, you're no more stupid than I am. I love Den-Den's pom-pom and he's sooooo proud of it! When I tell him his tail-tail is beautiful, he raises it up so high and you can see the pride! I didn't choose it. It was the standard of the breed and quite frankly I didn't think about it at the time. But I've seen poodles with full tails and they're neat! Kind of curl up over the back. I love Den-Den and it wouldn't matter to me what kind of tail he has. I will say that I'm glad his dew-claws were removed. I had never thought about that before either but my previous poodle injured his dew-claw pretty badly when he jumped off a hassock and it caught.

MBRA518
July 13th, 2004, 09:59 AM
If I didn't know better, I would be offended by being called stupid because my dog has a cropped tail. I am not.

What does offend me are people who do not take the time to at least understand another person's point of view and then refers to a large group of people who don't think the way they do as stupid.

Oh, and millions of baby boys are mutilated by their parents every single year.

Exactly what I was thinking... especially the baby boy part - I cringe just thinking about it. Now before any one says the reason is possible health issues - that is very unlikely and a very low percentage of men are effected. (I've had that dicussion before)

As for tail docking - if it is done right it is done at the 2-3 days old range - so only the breeder makes that decision. Also according to the vet we used when breeding boxers (I was a kid - but I remember asking if it hurt) the nerves and bones are not very well developed on the tail at that age - so it is not nearly so tramaic as it sounds/looks. Now docking a tail when the dog is older is quite cruel - but like lucky said - it is sometimes required to get a dog adopted... in those cases it would have been much less cruel if they had been done when they were 2-3 days old.

LavenderRott
July 13th, 2004, 10:21 AM
When the breed standard were set for most breeds with docked tails and cropped ears, it was a health issue. Now, of course, it is not.

Cactus Flower
July 13th, 2004, 11:38 AM
Hoooooo Boy! This topic is getting hot!

Let me throw in another two cents or so here.

First off, I wonder if the pups would agree that there is little sensation in their tails....

Lucky, you bring up a good point, and you would know. I will admit that while I am opposed to cropping, if you gave me the choice between an uncropped Dobie and a cropped one, and I connected with each one equally, I would probably take the cropped one. I wouldn't have the guts to have one cropped myself, but given the choice if it is already done- I'd take the cropped. Can anyone else admit that and look bad with me, please? lol.
I usually let the dogs choose me, and if there is more than one that does so, I just spend enough time to see who I really "connect" with. Now, if all Dobies were uncropped....this wouldn't even be an issue.

Sorry, but I've got to comment on the "mutilating boys" issue, too.
According to the doc that snipped my son...there IS a health issue involved. Apparently it is more sanitary, and men who have not been snipped are more prone to kidney infections, etc. I will spare you all the unpleasant details as to why they say this is so.
And while many years ago they didn't used to, they now use an anesthetic to numb the area- something our pups don't get.
Historically, this practice began as a religious gesture, then became a sanitary issue.
It happens to women, too, in Africa, barbarically with a razor blade and no meds...but I've digressed enough...don't get me started.....

I'm enjoying all of these different opinions. And LavenderRott, you took that "insult" very gracefully, I must say. Kudos to you. :D

Jenni
July 13th, 2004, 12:19 PM
I work at a vet clinic and if you heard the way them puppys scream when they wake up with no ears and that intense pain WOW! we have to shut all the doors to the kennel room because people think we are murdering something. I am sorry but I have never seen a puppy wake up nicely after having there ears cropped. And the 3 day old puppys and there tails and dewclaws you hold a wiggling puppy as the vet cuts off there tail. OUCH!

Luba
July 13th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Thank u for that post Jenni!!

And I completel disagree with snippin a baby boys weenie!


What comedian said "It's just so ridiculous"

mastifflover
July 13th, 2004, 02:07 PM
I personally don't like it cropping and docking. But I have owned a Neapolitan Mastiff who had his tail docked and ears natural. He came this way as he was a rescue. But since I have learned a lot about this breed and part of the reason is for health issues and at one time safety of the animal. A reputable breeder has the ears and tails done at a very young age and is done by proffesionals. These large heavy breeds have very heavy ears that tend to be a breeding ground for infections and even when cleaned often things tend to get in the canals and grow infections rapidly. I own an English Mastiff now he has a table clearer on one end and big ears that are constantly getting infected. In fact he is having surgery this week on his ears. He came with severely infected ears that we have been working to clear up with out surgery but it is unavoidable at this point. He was a rescue so I don't know how long it has been going on.

Delirium
July 13th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Unfortunate mutilation should only be allowed for health reasons. Otherwise, it is mutilation for vanity and therefore a shame.

If I was in California I would heartily support such a law. Ideally, such legislature will become common place and include such other atrocities as declawing and debarking.

Dee

Lucky Rescue
July 13th, 2004, 02:48 PM
I wouldn't have the guts to have one cropped myself, but given the choice if it is already done- I'd take the cropped.Can anyone else admit that and look bad with me, please?

I'll admit it!! :D I was looking for a rescue Dobe for nearly a year, and I admit I was looking for one that was cropped, in addition to being suitable in every other way, of course. I also saw the trouble rescues had adopting out "houndy" looking Dobies.

When I gave up and decided on a pit bull, I was then specifically looking for an UNcropped one, as I dislike the look of cropped pit bulls, plus the general public finds them scary looking.

heidiho
July 13th, 2004, 02:52 PM
I will admit it also..

LavenderRott
July 13th, 2004, 03:18 PM
I have been looking for a breeder for a new rottweiler pup for about a year now. It sometimes seems like breeder's and I are cross examing each other like a couple of lawyers on a murder case!

And YES. my next rottweiler WILL have a docked tail.

Luba
July 13th, 2004, 03:29 PM
What dangers are there to having a rottie with a natural tail Sandi?

I don't know much about the breed myself.

LavenderRott
July 13th, 2004, 03:45 PM
Originally, they were bred for carting, herding and protection. A tail is a real pain for a carting dog. You will find that many of the herding breeds have docked tails too.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that I have never been a huge fan of dogs with tails. My 3 favorite breeds of dog: Rottweiler, Australian Shepherd, and Pembroke Welsh Corgis.

Luba
July 13th, 2004, 04:02 PM
So I assume they have very weak tails like the boxers do then. I've seen some very traumatic tail injuries with boxers because undocked.

I never knew they were carting dogs, isn't that interesting :D

Lucky Rescue
July 13th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Actually, a breed that SHOULD be docked is the Great Dane! Ever see one clear a table off? :p

Cropping and docking are very hot topics. Thanks for keeping it civil.:)

Cactus Flower
July 13th, 2004, 04:18 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: *Hand over heart* Raja and I will pretend we didn't read that!


She's never cleared a table off- I swear!


Good thing humans don't get docked for clumsiness, though....I would be limbless :p

Luba
July 13th, 2004, 04:23 PM
Well if that were to really be the case then our fine furry friend the kitty cats would never have any tails either...up on the counter tipping things over and such OMG!

Could not imagine a world with dogs and cats have no tails!

However, I could imagine a world where some people have no tongues LMFHO!

glasslass
July 13th, 2004, 05:02 PM
:D HeeHee! Puss-Puss has knocked some things off the dresser, but not with her tail. If they didn't have their tails, they'd really be knocking things off. Cats need their tails for balance. I saw a documentary on it on Animal Planet. What she knocked off was deliberate. :eek: Now she's older, she doesn't do it anymore. I'm always amazed how agile she is walking through things without knocking them. :p

Luba
July 13th, 2004, 05:07 PM
I think one of girlfriends cats does it for attention, she seems to pick these spots on the counter where there are lots of things, almost like she enjoys to try to balance between them all.

Maybe a game to her when she's bored LOL

glasslass
July 13th, 2004, 06:13 PM
Puss usually left things alone. Then, one item would catch her attention and she would decide she didn't like it there and swipe it off with her paw. Couple days later, she'd walk carefully through and the same item would be back in it's spot - SWIPE! "I don't want THAT there!" If I moved it to a different spot, it was ok. I think she was criticizing my decorating tastes. :D

chico2
July 14th, 2004, 07:30 AM
I am actually amazed at how gracefully my big Rocky tip-toes on my fire-place mantel without knocking anything over....now young Vinnie is different,in his excitment he will knock over anything in the persuit of a fly :D
I used to have a dog similar to Sadie and she was just the right height for the coffee-table,a regular sweep everything off the table doggie :D

Catt31
July 15th, 2004, 07:38 PM
I've been out of town for a few days and had a lot of reading to catch up on in this thread.

Firstly, LavRott...I am sorry that you were offended by my comments. It was NOT intended to sound that way, or call anyone who had cropped/docked rotties or dobes "stupid".....I read my post again and can see how you would have been offended, and I totally apologize, it was not meant to come out that way. You are NOT stupid, you love your dogs and that is obvious. Bad generalization on my part!! Sorry! :o My main point was that dogs can't speak for themselves.

I didn't know that Rotties were used for carting.....I guess if you were going to use your dogs for that, then crop their tails, but really, how many are used that way nowadays??

I personally would like a dog with or without a tail. When we were looking for a dog it was never an issue...we wanted one that would be compatible with us, and that we connected with! If Brick's tail was docked, I'd still love him just the same. Some days, after he's cleared the coffee table, I wish he didn't have a tail!! LOL :rolleyes:

Anyways, just my opinion, and its a good thing we are all entitled to our own!!! :)

Jackie467
July 17th, 2004, 04:18 PM
I know a lot of people don't agree with cropping ears and tails but i don't think it's so bad. i'v lived with dobermin pinchers since i was born and they all have had thier tails and ears cropped/docked. We had their ears cropped because it helps to prevent future ear infections and problems. dobs get ear infections very easily and this helps to minimize the risk by allowing air to flow in and dry any water that may have gotten inside somehow. as far as the tails i grew up with it and never really gave it a second thought. i guess ther really isn't a reason for docking the tails but it never seemed to bother our dogs at all. i don't even think they realized it was done. they never seemed in pain at all after the surgury. in fact they seemed in less pain they when they were spayed/nutered.

I don't know that i would dock their tails becuase there is no reason, but i definetly would crop thier ears for the infection reason.

Cactus Flower
July 17th, 2004, 04:30 PM
VERY interesting! I'll comment here, but I'm going to start a new thread so as not to hijack: It was recently suggested that I get my ADULT DANE's ears cropped because of recurring ear infections. I have my own opinion about that, but I'll save it for the new thread.
I find it very interesting that cropping Dobies might prevent recurring infections- wonder if it helps in Danes that are cropped as babies.

BigDogLover
February 14th, 2005, 10:09 AM
It's kind of like abortions, you know.

Here I disagree. Abortions are a mature individuals right to terminate a life, not alter a body part. This is more like the ' To circumcise/not to circumcise' argument, the decision is usually made by the parents not the *pup*.




Neither are the people with the breeds in question! When the breeds were developed, ears were cropped and tails docked for a reason. While these reasons may not be relevant anymore, the breed standard, both physical and temperamental are what these dogs are to be bred too.


Here I do agree. Herr Louis Doberman bred his dog with a specific look and temperament in mind. The look is important to the breed, and anyone who understands 'anatomy 101 on hearing' would know that cropping will enhance the dogs ability to hear. I'm a sound specialist working in audio, I'll argue this point to the death. The Beaceron, one of the dobe's ancestors, also has the ears cropped.

There are far greater evils that men perform on animals that cause stress and trauma leaving scars on the psyche that will never heal, these are the points that should be discussed. Under socialising, beating the dog to become mean, leaving your dog outdoors all day, ignoring him, harsh house breaking, the list goes on and on. Efforts should be deviated toward enhancing dog owner awareness, after all, the ultimate goal is to reduce the amount of unwanted dogs, cats, ET AL. When your dog doesn't meet your expectations, all too often, he ends up in the hands of people like LuckyR and Foxy's, who have to pick up the pieces and re-install a little confidence in the abused beast.

As for California and having greater troubles to work out, well yes maybe they do, but animal cruelty should always be 'tall order' Du jour.

VERY interesting! I'll comment here, but I'm going to start a new thread so as not to hijack: It was recently suggested that I get my ADULT DANE's ears cropped because of recurring ear infections. I have my own opinion about that, but I'll save it for the new thread.

Again, this the circumsise argument as preventative measures.


Dar.
FYI: Most vets will no longer crop dog's ears in Quebec, yet, they'll de-claw a cat. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this?