Ear cropping?

[rebel24]

Just thought I'd some word out incase you didn't know they are trying to ban ear cropping in Cali. Good/Bad any thoughts......


http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomfr...%2F]click here

[Luba]

Ear cropping is cruel I'm all for it!

[rebel24]

I know I don't have any dogs that have it done.

[LavenderRott]

Well, I am just gonna waltz in here, give my opinion and run like he!!.

First off, I will be upfront and admit that one of the things I like about my rottweiler is her tail, or lack thereof. A Doberman with natural tail and ears looks just like a black and tan coonhound.

Having said that, I think that the State of California has many more important issues to deal with besides tails and ears. And if you think that making it illegal to have it done in the State is going to stop people from having it done, well, think again. Tails will either be banded with no medical supervision, or pups will be taken out of state to have it done. As for ears, I hear a lot of pit fighters do ears themselves with a pair of kitchen scissors.

If you want to put an end to animal cruelty, then go after the really important things. Dogs chained up in backyards with food thrown at them whenever the mood strikes. Puppy mill dogs stuff in cages, having puppies 2 or 3 times a year (if the hormone injection works right) and living in their own excrement.

Enforce the leash laws that are on the books. The same with the rest of the laws you have in place. When a state can actually enforce the laws that they have already put in place, then they can make more. But it seems to me that so far, California is having a hard time enforcing existing laws.

Duck and Cover!

[rebel24]

Well I understand your poistion (sp.) I myself am on the fence about the whole thing. But from several other articles I have read this is an across the board kinda thing. Other countries are starting this or have already banned it. And the say it is just a matter of time before it is wide spread here.

[LavenderRott]

In some parts of Europe, it has been illegal for years. But I don't live in Europe, nor do I want to.

If these procedures are done properly, and by a qualified veterinarian, then they are no more painful then a spay/neuter. They are certainly not something I would condone someone doing at home. I am stronly against someone putting a rubber band around an 8 week old puppy's tail and waiting for it to fall of. THAT is cruel.

[Luba]

I see your point LavR there are pros and cons

Some dogs have very little 'tail' and it gets injured if not docked simply because of the way they've been bred over time.

I don't believe in cropping and docking simply for the purpose of how it looks. Rather I do believe in it for preventing injury.

Dobies look just fine with natural ears and non docked tails, I think they tend to look really sweet that way.

Cocker spaniels get docked too, and I've seen some non docked ones and they have substantial tails that aren't weak and fragile.

[melanie]

is ther any health reason for cropping ears, i dont see any reason for it to be done, except perhaps asthetics for the owners. if there was a health reason yeah sure, in those breeds affected, but other wise no i totally disagree with the practice and it should be totally illeagle, that is unless the dog walks up and says "look, im not feeling too attractive at the moment because of my ears, i feel kinda dorky, could we fix it" .

[LavenderRott]

That is the wonderful thing about the country I live in. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.

[glasslass]

I'd be happy if Den-Den had his full tail. Just my own thought. I understand there are reasons sometime for having it done. Friend of mine had her boxer's ears done. She later said it was really an ordeal and she would never put a dog through that again. Hate for it to be illegal though and still be performed under less than ideal conditions.

[LavenderRott]

It's kind of like abortions, you know.

Right now they are legal, good doctors do them and young girls live another day. Hopefully wiser.

If they are illegal, then some money hungry doctor with dirty instruments, dirty tables and no training does them and young girls die.

Whether or not I agree with abortion is irrelevant. The fact that young desperate girls live is very relevant.

[Luba]

Okay kinda off topic but dink cropping for petophiles now THERE's a good idear

[rebel24]

THis is kinda the way I see it. If a breed wants to have the ears done or tails done fine have done before you see the pups. If not I won't pay extra money to have the procedure done. I really see no reason either done except for a good medical reasons not because you like the way it looks. jmo....

[melanie]

oh lavender i toatally agree.
but please, i dont understand, i have never know a dog with cropped ears, out of interest why is it done??
oh luba, great idea, shall i go and get my scizzors, iwill do it all for free, my little gift to society, ha ha, snip snip mongrels

[Luba]

You can even make some money off of the dink cropping

Advertise it on the net, pay per view

OH I'm so sick!

Shushing now

[glasslass]

Just a thought. If made illegal, wouldn't AKC have to change the standards for breeds?

[rebel24]

Yep, and the AKC is none to happy about it either.

[LavenderRott]

Neither are the people with the breeds in question! When the breeds were developed, ears were cropped and tails docked for a reason. While these reasons may not be relevant anymore, the breed standard, both physical and tempermental are what these dogs are to be bred too.

We have enough people *******izing our breeds now, mix anything with a freaking poodle and low and behold it is a new breed. If everyone is so worried about a pit bulls temperment, I am sure that it can be corrected by breeding it to a nice poodle. We can call it a pitti-poo.

Sorry. I am in a cruddy mood and just rarin' for a fight.

[Luba]

Pitty-POO OMG LavR don't give those nutjobs anything to think about YIPERS!

Or it could be called a Pittoodle

[Lucky Rescue]

but please, i dont understand, i have never know a dog with cropped ears, out of interest why is it done??

It's done for cosmetic reasons - people like the look of it. I would never crop my dog's ears, because I like pit bulls with natural ears!

I must say I love the looked of a cropped Dobie, but can't say I would do it to a puppy of mine. And Dobies were bred to have docked tails, and their own natural tails are often extremely bony and easily injured, unlike the thick strong tails of Labs, for example.

Actually, pit bulls should have docked tails!! Those things really hurt when whipped against your shins.

[Luba]

I've seen a lot of pits with damaged tail ends because they wag them so much they smack them against everything and the tips bleed.

Seen 'many' shelter pits like that actually.

I do love the 'look' of the dobie cropped ears but would never ever do it to a puppy. I would only do anything like this if necessary.

We get to choose our cosmetic surgery, we shouldn't choose for them unless they 'need' it is my opinion.

[glasslass]

Some breeds have cropped ears so that when fighting, the other dog can't latch on to them. Not a particularly noble reason. Why don't cockers have cropped ears? They are prone to a lot of ear problems with that heavy flap and long hair.

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

If these procedures are done properly, and by a qualified veterinarian, then they are no more painful then a spay/neuter. They are certainly not something I would condone someone doing at home. I am stronly against someone putting a rubber band around an 8 week old puppy's tail and waiting for it to fall of. THAT is cruel.

I agree with the ear thing - when I was a kid we had a 1/2 dob with the ears done.... I don't disagree with others doing it "properly" - I however like the natural ears better.

As to the rubber banding - not that I've ever done it - or would consider to (our boxers were done by the vet) But is it cruel - or less painful? The reason I ask is - we had a horse born with a hernia and the way the vet fixed it was knocked him out, rolled him on his back so everything would fall back in, then used small pieces of wood and rubber bands to cramp the area of the hernia - pulling the 2 sides together and making them heal together properly.... the result was a nicely healed hernia and the clamped tissure just fell off. This was our vets preferred way to deal with a small hernia as it was less painful - and required no surgery, so it was much safer from an infection point of view. - Just wondering if that would be the same for the tail?

[LavenderRott]

Tails are a bit different. There is spinal cord and lots of nerves. When you dock a puppies tail, it needs to be done the first couple of days after birth. Bones aren't fully formed, etc. To put a rubber band around an older puppy's tail can do a lot of damage and cause a lot of pain.

[glasslass]

I seem to remember that is the way (rubber bands) that lambs are/were done? Now that I think about it, don't know that I've ever noticed what kind of tail sheep have.

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

Tails are a bit different. There is spinal cord and lots of nerves. When you dock a puppies tail, it needs to be done the first couple of days after birth. Bones aren't fully formed, etc. To put a rubber band around an older puppy's tail can do a lot of damage and cause a lot of pain.

oh - ok.... i guess that makes sence.

[Cactus Flower]

First of all, thanks to Luba, Lavendar and GlassLass (among others), for such prompt respones, warm welcomes and good advice when I joined this site less than a week ago!


I guess I'll throw in my two cents on the cropping issue here, as I've enjoyed reading so many diverse opinions throughout.

I don't believe in cropping to make any animal look the way WE think they should look. I think God did a fine job creating them as He saw fit.

That said, I have a friend who uses dogs to hunt (another issue entirely, don't get me started lol), and he insists that without cropping, they'd get shredded by thorny bushes, brambles etc.

People, myself included, tend to get a fixed image of a breed in their mind. As an example, when I imagine a Doberman, I imagine it with cropped ears and tail. But if I had one, I would not have the cropping done. I have a Great Dane, and I can't tell you how many times I've heard "That is a HUGE labrador!", because of her big floppy ears. When I say "She's a Dane, her ears aren't cropped" it clicks with them: "Oh yeah...she IS a Great Dane...". People just imagine a Dane with the cropped ears. It's a fixed image.

[Luba]

Hey like my Sadie's boyfriend Tanner

[melanie]

actually come to think of it, i know a huge rottie X lab and he has his tail, he hit me in the face once when i was on the floor, gosh it hurt, but then maybe i shoulnt have been on the floor, lol. and we lived with a staffie years ago, called ziggy of course, and he still had his tail, i would imagine one would have to look hard for a vet to do it around here, i know my vet wouldnt. (it has just become illeagle here unless done by vet and many dont like it, oh well it just show our laws dont move fast, shocking and horrific to think up till june people could do it at home). i must admit a while back i saw a car with a lg sticker that screamed "i support tail docking' and i do admit it made me furious, i gave them a bit of a hard time for it, but if one wants to display their beliefs on a car like that, when it is such a controversial issue here, well i have the right to disagree, sorry ladies. .
glassy, yes little lambs have their tails docked. most farmers use a little metal ring and put that on the tail and it comes off, some pigs (meaning human pigs) use thick rubberbands though, and that sucks, surley it takes longer and could cause probs as opposed to the ring. it is very important to dock a sheeps tail, if it is not done there is great the danger of the sheep becoming flyblown (i dont know about other countries, only aus). that is horrid condition for a sheep, the fly lays maggots in the bum and the tail helps the sheeps dropping to stick around and the maggots go wild and eventually the sheep must be killed after a very painful experience. with sheep it doesnt seem painful, they dont seem to care really, and most well experienced sheep farmers do it swiftly and efficiently. and sheep can still become flyblown even with no tail, but it is easier to control with no tail. poor little lambs.

[LavenderRott]

Not owning a breed with cropped ears, I will admit that I am not an expert as in why it was done in the past. I will say that a couple of hundred years ago, when most of these breeds were developed, tail docking and ear cropping were not done for cosmetic reasons. Rottweilers were bred to be carting and herding dogs. Tails and carts don't mix well.