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high protein cat foods and FLUTD

marine's girlie
December 13th, 2006, 06:54 PM
hi everybody,
i'd like to put my cats onto a high protein cat food like EVO, but i'm concerned about the ash content. i find ash of 9-10% in all the foods and i know that in order to have a high protein food, a lot of meat is required and that ash (mineral content) is proportionate to the meat content. since i haven't heard of these types of diets leading to an increased incidence of crystaluria and blockage, i'm wondering why.
i hypothesize that it may have to do with the urinary pH which is produced by such a high protein diet (ie one that it is much lower than other foods) which precludes the precipitation of triple ammonium phosphate crystals in the urine. i certainly haven't head of the newer prescription diabetic feline diets causing this problem, and they are based on the same high protein principle.
or maybe foods like this are just so new that no links have been drawn.
does anybody else have any other ideas?
i have found evidence that high protein diets can prevent struvite formation, but i have yet to come across anyone with anicdotal evidence which supports this.

December 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
I think it's the reduced quantity needed. 10% of 2 cups is less than 5% of 5 cups... (Just relating it to what I feed my dogs- both on evo and on crap :shrug: )

marine's girlie
December 14th, 2006, 03:07 PM
i'm not sure this is it, as 10% of 2 (0.1 x 2) is 0.2 and 5% of 5 (0.05 x 5) is 0.25. unless i'm converting wrong.

prin, i don't suppose that you had a urinanalysis run before and after the switch. did you happen to notice if urinary pH changed when you switched? i'd be curious if anyone putting their animals on a higher protein diet noticed a pH increase or decrease. i'm particularly interested in cats, but info from dogs might help make a circumstantial case as well.

December 14th, 2006, 07:28 PM
I have my 3 cats on Evo. One got sick a few weeks ago. bad infection. Very close to dieing :sad: They ran a bunch of blood work and tested the urin and it was normal. And after he recovered, the vet was happy with his levels.

December 14th, 2006, 09:34 PM
As a vet tech, wouldn't you have access to that info?

I haven't done any urine tests on Jemma yet, but her blood tests are fine and were fine before.:shrug:

December 14th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Oh and ya:
i'm not sure this is it, as 10% of 2 (0.1 x 2) is 0.2 and 5% of 5 (0.05 x 5) is 0.25. unless i'm converting wrong.
is right, and 0.2 is less than 0.25. ;)

marine's girlie
December 15th, 2006, 03:40 PM
my point is that the differnece is not significant, so i'm not sure that this would explain it.
and, no i don't have this information, that's why i asked. i figured that people in a pet food forum would be paying attention to this.
i suppose a similarity would be people feeding raw or home cooked diets, assuming that they are also feeding a high protein diet.
i know that carnivores have a lower urinary pH than herbivores, i'm just wondering if this is a result of diet or another metabolic process common to carnivores.
scott, was your cat's illness linked to the high protein diet in any way, or was it unrelated?

December 15th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Umm, ok now I'm lost. Urinary pH and urinary tract blockages are related to ash, and you're wondering why the incidence of blockages etc isn't higher on high protein because the ash is higher, so I showed that the ash is basically the same as any other food, which is why the incidence isn't higher... Sooo.... :confused:

December 16th, 2006, 04:36 AM
scott, was your cat's illness linked to the high protein diet in any way, or was it unrelated


December 16th, 2006, 09:17 AM
I was under the impression that FLUTD and crystals was directly related to magnesium and phosphorous content in the food. I know that those two are components of ash. I've read that carbohydrates contribute to struvite crystal formation, not protein.

marine's girlie
December 18th, 2006, 03:29 PM
i've heard that about mg and phos too, but i don't know if it is as simple as just crystal content because struvite formation is pH dependent. i haven't heard of a link between carbs and struvites, but perhaps a diet high in carbs leads to an alkaline pH. its just a supposition, but if a diet high in protein (and by definition low in carbs) can reduce the incidence of crystal formation then we'd have an alternative diet to recommend to people who either don't want to feed a prescription diet or for those who have allergies to ingredients in the prescription diets.
and since i'm looking at putting my own cats on a diet like this, i have a personal interest in the subject.
i was just wondering if anyone has had personal experience with cats on a high protein food and any urinary problems or lack thereof.