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  #1  
Old December 13th, 2006, 06:54 PM
marine's girlie marine's girlie is offline
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high protein cat foods and FLUTD

hi everybody,
i'd like to put my cats onto a high protein cat food like EVO, but i'm concerned about the ash content. i find ash of 9-10% in all the foods and i know that in order to have a high protein food, a lot of meat is required and that ash (mineral content) is proportionate to the meat content. since i haven't heard of these types of diets leading to an increased incidence of crystaluria and blockage, i'm wondering why.
i hypothesize that it may have to do with the urinary pH which is produced by such a high protein diet (ie one that it is much lower than other foods) which precludes the precipitation of triple ammonium phosphate crystals in the urine. i certainly haven't head of the newer prescription diabetic feline diets causing this problem, and they are based on the same high protein principle.
or maybe foods like this are just so new that no links have been drawn.
does anybody else have any other ideas?
i have found evidence that high protein diets can prevent struvite formation, but i have yet to come across anyone with anicdotal evidence which supports this.
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Old December 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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I think it's the reduced quantity needed. 10% of 2 cups is less than 5% of 5 cups... (Just relating it to what I feed my dogs- both on evo and on crap )
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Old December 14th, 2006, 03:07 PM
marine's girlie marine's girlie is offline
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i'm not sure this is it, as 10% of 2 (0.1 x 2) is 0.2 and 5% of 5 (0.05 x 5) is 0.25. unless i'm converting wrong.

prin, i don't suppose that you had a urinanalysis run before and after the switch. did you happen to notice if urinary pH changed when you switched? i'd be curious if anyone putting their animals on a higher protein diet noticed a pH increase or decrease. i'm particularly interested in cats, but info from dogs might help make a circumstantial case as well.
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Old December 14th, 2006, 07:28 PM
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Scott_B Scott_B is offline
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I have my 3 cats on Evo. One got sick a few weeks ago. bad infection. Very close to dieing :sad: They ran a bunch of blood work and tested the urin and it was normal. And after he recovered, the vet was happy with his levels.
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Old December 14th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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As a vet tech, wouldn't you have access to that info?

I haven't done any urine tests on Jemma yet, but her blood tests are fine and were fine before.
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Old December 14th, 2006, 09:34 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Oh and ya:
Quote:
i'm not sure this is it, as 10% of 2 (0.1 x 2) is 0.2 and 5% of 5 (0.05 x 5) is 0.25. unless i'm converting wrong.
is right, and 0.2 is less than 0.25.
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Old December 15th, 2006, 03:40 PM
marine's girlie marine's girlie is offline
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my point is that the differnece is not significant, so i'm not sure that this would explain it.
and, no i don't have this information, that's why i asked. i figured that people in a pet food forum would be paying attention to this.
i suppose a similarity would be people feeding raw or home cooked diets, assuming that they are also feeding a high protein diet.
i know that carnivores have a lower urinary pH than herbivores, i'm just wondering if this is a result of diet or another metabolic process common to carnivores.
scott, was your cat's illness linked to the high protein diet in any way, or was it unrelated?
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Old December 15th, 2006, 04:07 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Umm, ok now I'm lost. Urinary pH and urinary tract blockages are related to ash, and you're wondering why the incidence of blockages etc isn't higher on high protein because the ash is higher, so I showed that the ash is basically the same as any other food, which is why the incidence isn't higher... Sooo....
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Old December 16th, 2006, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
scott, was your cat's illness linked to the high protein diet in any way, or was it unrelated
unrelated.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

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Old December 16th, 2006, 09:17 AM
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I was under the impression that FLUTD and crystals was directly related to magnesium and phosphorous content in the food. I know that those two are components of ash. I've read that carbohydrates contribute to struvite crystal formation, not protein.
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  #11  
Old December 18th, 2006, 03:29 PM
marine's girlie marine's girlie is offline
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i've heard that about mg and phos too, but i don't know if it is as simple as just crystal content because struvite formation is pH dependent. i haven't heard of a link between carbs and struvites, but perhaps a diet high in carbs leads to an alkaline pH. its just a supposition, but if a diet high in protein (and by definition low in carbs) can reduce the incidence of crystal formation then we'd have an alternative diet to recommend to people who either don't want to feed a prescription diet or for those who have allergies to ingredients in the prescription diets.
and since i'm looking at putting my own cats on a diet like this, i have a personal interest in the subject.
i was just wondering if anyone has had personal experience with cats on a high protein food and any urinary problems or lack thereof.
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