So You Think You Can Just Adopt a Dog?

[badger]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/fa...es/23pets.html

[Prin]

Yet would-be adopters who expect exacting standards from top breeders are surprised when shelters and rescue groups ask more from them than a pulse.

I like that bit...

[Esaunders]

I think the more critical points in the article are very familiar I'm getting my new dog this weekend, an english setter pup from a breeder. I was looking at both rescued dogs and breeders' dogs and found dealing with the breeders to be much more comfortable and realistic. I wasn't looking for a cheap or free dog, simply an adult dog with a good temperment. Moderate training issues I was both willing to work with and had the background to do so.

I found the length and requirements of many applications as well as the home visit (multiple visits before and after adoption in many cases) to be both invasive and off-putting.

Never mind the fact I couldn't get reasonable timeframe responses from several rescues.

I believe strongly in the need for rescues but I find that some of them are really into over-kill. I'm thrilled with the dog I am getting but feel somewhat guilty that I didn't give a rescues dog a home ....

[BMDLuver]

Most likely because breeder = livelyhood, rescue = fulltime job with no return financially.

Of course a breeder will be faster although I know many a breeder who insists on home visits with all families present. That's a good one in my books. A dog is for life so why not make sure to the best of your ability that the candidate is right for the dog. A rescue dog certainly doesn't need to be returned a second time. It's been that route at least once prior to ending up in rescue. It should be just as difficult as adopting a child. Then that rescue is covering all bases.

Either way, good luck and best wishes for your new addition.

[Esaunders]

I absolutely agree with you on the rescue front.

A rescue dog absolutely does not need to require rescue a second time. Once is too much in my opinion. There are too many out there, it is a sad thing.

Although I don't agree with the perspective on breeders being more lax due to the money perspective. I spoke to a couple breeders who had dogs that were not a good match for me, quite bluntly stated so and recommended looking at other dogs. (these were field type setters, much higher energy) I thanked them heartily for their honest and moved on to the more sedate show lines. I also volunteered to come visit them (1 1/2 hours from home) so that I could meet them and their dogs, with no assurances of a dog and was thoroughly quizzed.

[Prin]

You got an adult dog from a breeder?

[BMDLuver]

Originally Posted by Esaunders

Although I don't agree with the perspective on breeders being more lax due to the money perspective.

ahhhh, didn't say that they were more lax due to money. I was referring to the timely fashion in which one generally has an answer from a breeder as opposed to a rescue.

Breeders who sell a dog fast in my books aren't great. Those who do homework and interviews on the purchaser are good conscientious breeders. Also, breeders who allow a person/family to take home a dog from a litter that they know is not going to be suitable... bad bad bad..

Case in point: family wants a westie desperately. Find a breeder who will let them have one. No one else would as they have small children, never owned a dog before, lifestyle not conducive to a dog, etc.. So now, they have this westie. It has bitten every family member multiple times... they are afraid to touch it for fear of getting bitten and it runs the house. It's 4 months old. It was the alpha female of the litter. They liked her personality. The breeder had a much softer one but no, they wanted her so no problem, there you go.. thanks. They now are talking about selling her to someone else or giving her to rescue. Hmmmm, not even going to contact the breeder back. In home training was advised... oh no, don't have time for that. Just an illustration of how it goes wrong when a breeder doesn't stand firm or sells dogs to anyone standing there with the correct amount.

This is in no way directed at good breeders or a breeder anyone is presently getting a dog from. Just one of the many experiences we see daily.

[Esaunders]

Prin,
Actually I got a 4-5 month old pup from a breeder, which was as young as I really wanted to work with. A wonderful experience meeting him and seeing a good 3 generations of relatives at the same time. (from 5 months to 11 years) All with great temperments and very good looking dogs.

BMDLuver... I understand and totally get what you are talking about. I've seen it myself. Its not pretty

[Prin]

Why did they have a 4-5 month old? Was he returned? Do they not know the age exactly?

[OntarioGreys]

You got an adult dog from a breeder?

Breeders especially those involve in AKC, CKC competition often adopt out older dogs they are spayed/neutered beforehand
some may be pup that they kept but as it matured it grew outside the range of confirmations standards to allow it to be shown, eg exceeded maimum or minimum height standards, the skin pigment of the nose changed, which means it cannot be shown and therefore not suitable for breeding but will still make and excellent pet.

They kept a pup and showed it could have won titles , but later learned it their was genetic defect somewhere along the pedigree line, the dog itself may be totally fine and not have this particular genetic defect but if bred there is a possbility that this genetics problem could be passed down to it's offspring, so when this happens breeders won't take a chance of continued breeding the this pedigree line, so they spay/neuter and adopt out the dog. This allows them to acquire dogs instead that do not have health problems so they can ensure quality in their breeding.

Any good breeder will require an adopter of either a puppy or adult to sign a contract, that if anything goes wrong that they are required to return the dog to the breeder, so ocassionally a breeder will have a return, which they will then have checked over and will readopt. (this is how I obtain one of my own dogs in the past)

I am actually surprised you are not aware of this as a rescue person, as this is important,( I am not trying to be rude or sarcastic by saying this, so please do not take personally ) if a shelter or rescue recieves a papered dog or tattooed dog, they should be contacting the appropriate registry, so that responsible breeders and other resues who placed the dog can take appropriate action against those adopters who breach contracts and also to put out warnings to prevent the adopter from readopting , and also because theft of purebred dogs occurs too often, a lot of breeders have had breakins into their homes and kennels, and some have involved violent acts to the breeders themselves so contacting may help in aiding to solve crimes. This link here provides tattoo indentification info and helps to determine which registry to call. http://www.lostdogsearch.com/links.htm
If you do get a tattoed greyhound the registry in the links will only help to contact the breeder if it is a racing greyhound, it won't help to locate the rescue who placed the greyhound in most cases, you best bet is to contact the closest adoption group, they keep a record of tattooes of each greyhound they place and they all have wording in their contracts that require owners to return the dog to the rescue the owner adopted from. Many adopters will adopt other greyhounds so notifying them becomes impotant in that case to ensure that if the person adopted other greyhounds they can be checked on, and their whereabouts trackedhttp://www.adopt-a-greyhound.org/directory/list.cfm



And please pass along this info to other rescues so they are aware

I know that not all registered purebreds are adopted out by responsible breeders, but by making the effort to contact the breeder or rescue , you are helping those who are responsible and and do care about their dogs, They in no way want their dogs to be a burden to (other )rescues and shelters which is why they have return policies in their adoption contracts. I am sure as a recue you feel the same way about the animals you place

[Esaunders]

Relax Prin... this is not a BYB or puppy mill operation, rather a solidly established kennel whose references I have checked with several other breeders/judges familiar with them and their dogs.

He has not been returned, everything simply worked out for everyone involved.

He's very well suited for my stated goals: companion, exercise partner and agility competitor (once his joints have finished growing) :love:

THEY know his age to the day, I'M the one who can't remember exactly. I'll have a reminder of this detail this weekend.

Does this meet with approval?

[Prin]

lol it wasn't about approval or anything. I'm not in rescue. I knew breeders sold way older dogs (retired ones) but I didn't know they had younger ones too (that aren't babies). Interesting to know because I wanted a newf or a dane, but I really don't want a puppy.

[Esaunders]

Ahh .... NOW I understand.

Part of this was luck, part of it was honesty on my part. I contacted a number of breeders directly and was very up front that an adult was a more ideal suit but that I was willing to work with a pup too if necessary.

Some had nothing.
Some had nothing, but took my information in case they heard of a dog needing a home in their specialty.
Some had dogs that they were starting to consider placing or litters on the way. (some old, some young adults and some pups)
One had my dog and I was lucky enough to find him.

The vast majority of the breeders were very friendly and even more supportive once they had heard what I was looking for and why. The breeders I spoke with respected the fact that I knew what was involved and what I could/would work with.

Know yourself, your circumstances, your capabilities and your limits. If you know these things, breeders are typically happy to talk to you if not help.

For the danes or newfs ... there is a dane rescue as well as a newf resue in ontario. If I can find the links for them, I'll send them your way.

[Prin]

Thanks. It's not for a while, but I have to research a lot first. I've had rescue dogs all my life, and there's nothing wrong with them, but one day, I'd like a well-bred doggy. You have to do everything once, right?

[BMDLuver]

Originally Posted by OntarioGreys

I am actually surprised you are not aware of this as a rescue person, as this is important,( I am not trying to be rude or sarcastic by saying this, so please do not take personally ) if a shelter or rescue recieves a papered dog or tattooed dog, they should be contacting the appropriate registry, so that responsible breeders and other resues who placed the dog can take appropriate action against those adopters who breach contracts and also to put out warnings to prevent the adopter from readopting , and also because theft of purebred dogs occurs too often, a lot of breeders have had breakins into their homes and kennels, and some have involved violent acts to the breeders themselves so contacting may help in aiding to solve crimes.

lol, not sure if this was directed at me? To the best of our ability we try to contact a breeder whenever we are able obtain the information. We have tracked tatoos and posted through breed clubs to try to find a breeder. So yes, we are very much aware to contact the breeder on a pup. But it never hurts to remind.

[vona]

Originally Posted by Esaunders

I believe strongly in the need for rescues but I find that some of them are really into over-kill. ..

Let me tell you what I am going through right now. I am a physician who has an 11-acre farm in Williams Lake, B.C. I have four dogs. One is a very senior Belgian Shepherd that just recently lost a leg to a kick by a horse plus 'vet miscommunication' - a $8,300 vet bill. I have an 9 year old hound/lab cross, an Akbash/Huntaway cross and a Golden Doodle. I rescue large animals and have horses, llamas, alpacas, goats, cows, etc. I work out of my property. I am a psychiatrist and my patients just love coming here because they can interact with the animals. My dogs go on two-hour walks/day. During the summer months I ride my horses and the dogs come along. My property borders on Crown Land and we're out there every day for walks and swims in the lakes. My dogs (and all of my animals) get the most attention one could give them (unless you were sitting on a couch with the dog for 24/7). I have a fenced yard, a pond I built for the dogs, they have a dog door, they sleep on my bed, they get the best food and the best vet care. I have references that include the local S.P.C.A., my vets and the professional trainer who trains all of my dogs. However,when I tried to adopt a dog from a ******, I was told that I couldn't have the dog (who was already in a multi-dog household) because he needed "individual attention" and they would prefer he goes to a home where he only has two other dog companions. This dog is a lab/hound cross. Large and athletic. 14 months old. He would be perfect for this place and I would love him until the day he died. No matter what might happen to him, I have the financial resources to do whatever is necessary. Hounds are comfortable in packs. This dog would have two young dogs to play with, he would be with me all day long while I worked. He would be incredibly socialized. I responded to the add because I wanted another dog who would enjoy an active life and could bond to me and my other animals - and then to find such a rejection - well, to say the least I was quite upset. I don't ask to adopt a dog without putting some feeling and committment into that request. I am constantly having to refuse people's requests for me to take dogs. I just wish this site would have been more honest about the dog because I know I would be an excellent home for him. I can't help but think that there is something else going on with either the owner/foster family or the dog that isn't being put out there on their add. I could so easily pick up a dog at the S.P.C.A. and I could very easily buy a purebred from a breeder due to my experience with dogs. This was an example of absolute over-kill or underreporting of a dog's behaviour or situation. I should say that the dog was advertised as having no behavioural problems, understood the basic commands, was good with cats and dogs, loved water, needed a home where the owner was there all day and needed an active lifestyle. They said he had a personality that was very much like a lab's and that he loved affection. Before I could even fill out an application form, they rejected my home. What's with that????

[~michelle~]

I'm rescue all the way, however i have run in to ALOT of bumps in the road. I have been turned down because i live in an apartment, they say crap like if i lived on the ground floor it would be different, but i dont see how it would, it wouldnt. they said that they bark to much, they actually said that about braxton who in a shelter situation with tons of dogs barking around him never made a peep. they have turned me down because im a student, i know their concern that i would move but i have a job in my feild already, and have lived in the same town my whole life, theres not much of a chance of me picking up and leaving and not taking the dog. they have turned me down because i dont make enough money, or in the case of the local humane society they allow open adoptions so several adoptions for 1 animal, so someone richer got chosen. richer does not mean beter pet ownership. i have also been turned down because they tought i was too young (the application says 18, not because you look too young to be serious) I had a friend who was turned down because she did not give her cat the vaccines that her vet recommended she not get because her cats were indoor cats. I agree with them looking in to the best situation for the pets, however i dont think they have the right criteria to establish this. i think offering more (mandatory) things with the adoption fee such as OB classes, an initial vet visit, a list of necessary vaccines, and treatments (advantage, heartguard etc) and reputable websites to look to for information and things that they need to know, or a list of signs to look for that requires immediate vet attention. just because someone is new to pet ownership does not mean they wouldnt be a good owner. instead of deterring people they should offer guidence and support.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by vona

I just wish this site would have been more honest about the dog because I know I would be an excellent home for him. Before I could even fill out an application form, they rejected my home. What's with that????

Even if you are the perfect dog owner,doesn't mean you are in tittle to all the dogs in rescues in need of a home ! I am a foster for a rescue, all my dogs are rescues,my cat too,I have a large house,large fenced yard. I tried to adopt a dog from another rescue 2 months ago and was refuse. They did give me a reason (dog was not ready to go in a home with other dogs) and I can live with that. I was kind of please that they are taking their time to find the perfect owner for that dog. I do choose carefully the next family for my fosters too. Sometimes dogs have specific needs and need a specific family. You have to accept that. And as for giving information for the future dog owners,you seem to forget,we are all volunteers,we do have day jobs and try to do the best we can.

[Prin]

I agree with Frenchy. I've applied for dogs and been turned down too. But it's not the rescue's fault. They're looking for the best home for their dog. Who can tell better what the needs of a dog are: us reading a tiny blurb about it or the people fostering it?

They don't want returns, and if they have any doubt, they'll just say no as is their right.

I figure if all of it comes together for one dog, it's meant to be.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by vona

this outfit just doesn't let their dogs go - they end up keeping most of them.
Vona

They must run out of foster families real quick if they adopt their fosters ! I understand you had a bad experience,this rescue seems....weird ? I'm all for home visits but to ask for money , not sure I agree. I hope you try again with another rescue,rescue dogs are the best .I'm sure you will have better luck next time.

[vona]

Well, perhaps that's why **** is in a multi-dog (orginal and foster) home. With the money they get from all of the applications, they can afford to keep the dogs. They have tax-exempt status and they beg for donations to fix all sorts of problems they're having with their dogs. Who knows, I don't. Perhaps once in a while, they do give out a dog.

To be honest, I don't know what this ******* is all about. It just appears strange to me when I talk to other respectible 'dog' people around here I hear the same thing. Once? O.K. Twice, well, perhaps O.K. But more than twice plus I have my own experience with them? Not O.K.

There are scams everywhere out there now. What's to say a rescue site couldn't be part of it? Make money by putting photos of dogs on the web, collect money for application forms, plead for money for special vet care? And then deny, deny. Perhaps they love their dogs and are looking for a way to finance their care. I really don't know.

This is not 'sour grapes'. I'm very grateful when someone can educate me and inform me as to why a certain dog would not fit into my life.

I've given up on this dog. I wonder what kind of life he's going to have and who he's going to end up with. But, I'll keep on looking. From now on, however, I intend on scrutinzing the ********* as much as they intend on scrutinizing me.

They're going to have to prove a lot more to me before I hand over cash and fill out application forms.

My sister is a free-lance journalist - I think I'll suggest this topic to her for one of her next articles.

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by vona

My sister is a free-lance journalist - I think I'll suggest this topic to her for one of her next articles.

That would be a good idea. I think if you look at petfinder,the rescues there are usually good ones (here in Quebec anyway)

[Prin]

I'm sorry, but I looked for the dog you're talking about and probably found it (I found a 14 month old named ****) and from your first post, you don't meet the requirements. Picture it from the rescue's point of view:
First, you say you're a physician- what that means to the rest of the world is you are never home, when there is a specific demand for being home a LOT for this dog.

Second, sure, you have money to pay vet bills, but those vet bills come from dogs living with your other animals. No rescue would put a dog at risk like that. And by at risk, I mean it has ALREADY HAPPENED to one of your dogs so there is NO way of assuring the safety of a new dog.

Third, you come on here and slam the rescue, and slander left and right. What does that say about your loyalty or decency?

Honestly, when a rescue is thumbing through prospective applicants and they see all that, they'll DEFINITELY move on to the next application.

Rescues have a right to be choosy. The reason they GET these dogs is because whoever sold them first was not.

[Frenchy]

lol Prin you are on fire ! I second everything you just posted. It's a little bit reeeerrrr,but you are right.

[Prin]

Like I said- I got turned down too, and I never insulted the rescue. This rescue is similar to the one you're bashing- people wonder if they ever adopt any out, but I don't doubt that she's in it for the love of the dogs and is just very selective. And if she uses the money to take care of the dogs herself (and I hear her property is awesome), then what does it matter? They're getting care and love.

Oh and he/she asked for it in post 21

This is not 'sour grapes'. I'm very grateful when someone can educate me and inform me as to why a certain dog would not fit into my life.

[technodoll]

from a neutral point of view though, i can understand why the rejection would sting so much... you know you are the perfect home for that dog but you don't get a chance to prove it before the door is closed in your face, and you will always wonder "who" got that dog and why that other home was better than yours? you know?

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by technodoll

why that other home was better than yours? you know?

I understand both sides,but you just have to trust the foster family Usually, even if some good people don't get to adopt one of my fosters,I will help them by finding another rescue dog that fits their profile.

[technodoll]

frenchy, if they were all as good as you are

i have a question... is it usual practice to pay a feee when sending in an application, and then if you're not accepted you don't get your money back?

[Prin]

I've never seen it before, but then again, I haven't applied to too many rescues either...

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by technodoll

i have a question... is it usual practice to pay a feee when sending in an application, and then if you're not accepted you don't get your money back?

This is the first I heard of it ! I don't know of any rescue that works like this here in Quebec.