Zinc Responsive Dermatitis in Brittany

[losinsusan]

Hi I am new here and have tried to find other people familiar with this disease. It is normally seen genetically in Nothern breed dogs. My dog Jax is a 7 yr old Brittany (turning 8 this weekend on Mothers day). He was in good health and only really saw the vet for once a year vacinations. He had a few fatty benign tumors removed a few years ago without issue. He had more growing and when they became too large we booked surgery in January of this year. So four months ago. A week after surgery his problems started. He began having sores, crusting sores on the surgery site and on his eyes starting. His anal glands began to change appearance and became swollen. We saw the vet right away and we discussed perhaps a reaction to the surgery or the antibitotics they sent us home on. This is effecting all his mucus membranes. The pads of his feet are also crusting and yellow and we pray he doesn't go lame before we can help him. He got worse by the day. So bad that our vet put him under again for a biospy and removal of one large sore on his back. Steriod shots were given also. That made him worse. I debated putting him down he was so bad. But he was eating fine and seemed playful still. I was heartbroken. The biopsy showed nothing! No fungus, no infection. We were referred to a vet dermatologist. It took a month to get in with her and we drove a long way for the visit. One look and they suspected Heptocutaneous Syndrome. Its a fatal, skin/liver disease. I was horrified. I again decided to let him go. The cost to move forward and try to help him was 700 that day alone. I had already spent over 2000 dollars. I was broke from this. I love my boy. Best dog I have ever owned. My husband freaked out crying and the vet said several dogs have lived two years with this disease on special diets. So we went forward. He had four more biopsies sent to the univ. of penn. that day. Four days later we are told it might be Zinc responsive dermatitis. Which mean he might survive on zinc supplements if he responded to them. He is already on the treatment for Hepto which is Pro Mod supplement power (protein/amino acid) liver enzymes supplements, fatty acids. six cooked eggs a day and now Antirobe antibitoics for skin infections and zinc supplements. Its been about three weeks now and he isn't worse. He isn't that much better. But still chases squirrels in the yard and does eat very well. Too well! What would cause a dog to stop absorbing zinc? I have studied every piece of anything on the web I can find on both diseases. There isn't enough infor. Because both are rare. I would love to hook up with someone who has experienced this horrid condition. I have dozens of pictures documenting him from the first sore to now. I hoped I could help someone else also with what we have learned in the past months. Our vets aren't convinced he doesn't have Hepto still. They will continue treatment for both illnesses since they are basically supplements and not drugs. I look at each day as a gift with my Jax and everyday assess how his quality of life is. If he lasts another week or another few months with us.....we were blessed to have known him. He was the puppy no one wanted and it was a karma thing that we got him. He helped me thru the death of both my parents and many family members. Losing him with have a profound effect on my family and we are basically ready to help him thru that when its time. The vets feel its not time now. He is still full of piss and vinegar! But its coming........ Can anyone help us? Just to chat about it if you have any experience with either disease? Thanks for listening to me. Sue

[kandy]

I am so sorry to read about your baby. I don't know much about Brittney's, but I have a friend who has owned them for most of her life, so I will ask her about this and see if she knows anything. From the picture, his appearance looks alot like our GSD who had Lupus. The only difference I see is that Jax doesn't seem to have the blood red eyes like Sonny did. I will let you know if my friend knows anything about this condition and maybe someone else on the site will have some knowledge about it. I have found this site to be amazingly informative and helpful.

[Dog Dancer]

So sorry for you and poor sweet Jax. I know nothing about these diseases, but have experienced the slow loss of a pet on more than one occasion. I hope the vets will find a treatment for Jax that helps him out, but know that you seem the type to do what's best for Jax. It's not always easy to think of them first. Hope it helps you both to know you are in our thoughts and prayers. And yes, this site is full of people with great knowledge, I hope someone has some ideas for you.

[losinsusan]

Thanks so much for your kindness. It helps me the most to be able to talk about it. Other "dog" people understand, where as family says..."how can you spend that much money on a dog". "Just put him down". They don't understand I will put him down when its time too. But I would have been haunted if I hadn't gotten him diagnosed. I had to know what happened to what was a seemingly healthy dog who had a routine surgery. It seems to have been a coincidence of sorts. But we are all sure he did have some sort of a metabolic reaction to something in the surgery. He still has raw, red marks where every stitch was placed. And they cauterized a couple skin tags on both eyes while having the surgery and both eyes became crusted with sores first. My vet dermo who we adore put it best....something happened in that surgery to throw his body out of harmony. Out of sync. Its seen often. He was predisposed to something that just got kicked into high gear.

[raingirl]

Well, the same things that cause zinc deficeincy in dogs are the same as for humans.

number of nutritional factors have been identified that modulate zinc absorption. Certain animal proteins in the diet enhance zinc absorption. Phytates from dietary plant material (including cereal grains, corn, rice) chelate zinc and inhibit its absorption. Subsistance on phytate-rich diets is thought responsible for a considerable fraction of human zinc deficiencies.

I don't know what you are feeding him, but it's possible that something in his diet could be prohibiting from absorbing the zinc. Are any of the supplements high in cadmium? typically plant products like grains and corn and rice and wheat prevent the body from absorbing zinc. Maybe try giving him his zinc supplements with a meat only treat 4 hours after a meal, and 4 hours before the next one?

The other thing, and I don't know if your vet considered this, was maybe something in the surgery caused an allergic reaction in her system. Maybe it is a food allergy or something? What kind of food do you have him on? Maybe switch to a food with high animal protein in it (Innova evo), low grains, to inproove the zinc absorption.

[losinsusan]

He has been on the same food since 6 weeks of age. A food I am totally confident in. Its Pro Plan and I actually work for them. I have for five years now. They do feel it was some kind of allergic reaction in the surgery. More likely the antibitoics or stitches, they used cat gut and he had extensive cutting done on the hip area. That has festered now for four months. With internal stitches they can take that long to dissolve. We almost opened him up again to clean that out but it was too late. Also they never stitched his eyes only like cauterized it. To remove a pin head sized skin tag/mole on both. I was vain about it and thought while you have him under lets remove those so I don't have to put him under in a year when they grow too large. What a mistake that was. I also had his teeth cleaned for the first time while under anestesia. God knows which thing reacted so badly. We did so much at once to him. According to the vet dermo it isn't food. Its likely his liver if its heptocutanious or possible cancer we haven't had symptoms of if its zinc absorbtion problems. Gastric cancer can do that too. There is no Premuim dog foods out with enough protein and amino acids and zinc to support him now. We use the supplements. They were more concerned changing his diet after all these years when he eats great would cause more problems. He is on Senior Chicken and Rice Pro Plan. And lets not forget he now gets 4 to 6 cooked eggs a day too. Which he is totally enjoying! I don't know how his arteries are though!

[Prin]

Wow. That "unwanted doggy" is the luckiest doggy to have found you. It's amazing how much trouble you have gone through and I hope you succeed somehow.

I know you're partial to the proplan, and althought it's not a terrible food, just know that there are better foods out there to choose from...

All I've read about Zinc deficiency is that fiber and calcium make it worse. It occurs most often in Dobies, Siberian Huskies and Mals, and Great Danes, or in dogs who are fed a "generic" diet low in zinc...

I have never heard of it but I looked it up and another possibility could be Pemphigus Complex: "an autoantibody directed against the wall of the skin cell". It starts as a small blister, or a pustule and then ends up as crusty skin (like kandy said, it's like canine lupus). There is no real treatment for this except for corticosteroids (they work in some dogs).

Good luck.

[losinsusan]

Steriods are out. They have given him enough tries that they messed him up with our blood panel and showed no results. Just hung up with the Vet Dermo and the Antirobe and Zinc are showing good results so far. Improvements slow...but I do see them. His alkaline phosphate levels are triple and the steriods might be the problem. They won't help the zinc problem. One last week to go on the Antirobe which is so expensive I pray its the last week! She will check him next week to be sure he doesn't now have a yeast problem too since he is smelling so bad we can barely stand it in our house now. ITs a vile odor. Its common for yeast to start up with long term skin issues they said. What next. He has had this trembling thing now occassionally. Like he is cold only he is inside and its plenty warm in here. He looks freaked out a bit by it but does respond to us and can walk fine. Its when he sits down. His whole body quivers. She thinks perhaps seizures of some sort. But we won't use meds for it. And with everything else its minor right now. And I know there are better holistic foods out there, I read about them all. But I do know that Pro Plan is the number one AKC champion dog food. We out sell all other premium brands to breeders. They can use any food price being no object. And they use us. I have friends with healthy dogs who use grocery store crap and never have sick dogs. I have no clue why. Its seems we don't necessarily seek out more natural foods unless we have sick dogs. I purposely stay away from "popular" breeds because they tend to have the most health issues. From overbreeding due to demand for the puppies. I am researching quite a bit for my next dog one day. I am a sporting breed lover. But it won't be the usual dog. The demand for labs and Goldens have caused way to many problems. It will be one that people go....What is that? LOL

[kandy]

Please be careful with the steroids. My family lost two dogs to liver failure - both caused by prednazone. I have to take prednazone for my asthma sometimes and humans can only take it for a while before it starts to cause liver problems but when the vet gave my parents the prednazone for the dogs, they didn't say anything about the possible side effects. :sad:

[mamielou]

Hi Susan :-)

I am SO SORRY for everything you all have been through... This sounds like a real nightmare...

If you want my opinion, every symptom your dog is showing sounds very much like things dogs develop on commercial foods... If he were my dog, I would switch him pronto on fresh foods for awhile (you could try a premix like sojo's (www.sojos.com) or Dr Harveys (www.drharveys.com) and see what happens. He might be reacting to the additives and preservatives present in the food and many pet switched to fresh, wholesome foods do so much better... Also, I am no expert but I figure that zinc coming from fresh, uncoocked food, must be better assimilated by the body than supplements(???).

There is also a book I bought, I think it is called "Pets at risk" - I lent it to a friend - and it develops a protocol for treating symptoms that are similar, it seems, to what your dog has. It tells your vet exactly what to look for and how to treat it. I found it on ebay. It could help you.

The best of luck to you all , keep us posted!

[losinsusan]

Hi thanks for your replies. I wish food change was the answer. But that isn't what causes zinc responsive dermatitis. They aren't convinced he doesn't have Heptocutanious syndrome either yet. He is responding a bit more to his treatment plans. And we are using the protocol for both diseases right now. Hard part is knowing which is working. He is spunkier and he is less crusty and red/raw looking now. I am seeing a slight improvement in the pads on his feet also. Less crusty, less cracked. If its Hepto, its his liver. We can maintain him for a bit and a few dogs on this treatment have hit the two year mark. If its zinc responsive, it is usually seen later in life due to a malignancy in the stomach. He shows now signs so far of that. But we all know how quick things can change with our animals. He is here. I enjoy him and continue to treat him. The cost is getting rough though. Its hurting us big time. Just the nutritional supplements are costing me roughly 125 a month. Antibiotics.....200 a month so far. Hoping they will stop those next week. They helped him quite a bit too. After trying 5 different ones we hit the bullseye with AntiRobe. Good stuff for serious skin problems. I mean serious.
He needs an ultrasound that I just can not afford at this time. Its would give us more answers. I am angry that lack of money is keeping us from helping him more. But near 3500 dollars in three months is the most I had to spend. I have kids!! And I took on extra work to help defray all this.

[mamielou]

Bless your heart for spending that much $$$ for your baby.Most people would of put him down long ago. I have too gone broke a few times to care for my pets in the past (which prompted me to research pet foods and their affects on our babies).

I read everything you wrote very carefully. It seems that pretty much everything has been suspected to cause his ailment, from possible reaction to surgery to genetic defect. You spent 3 500$ investigating this and trying to cure it. As Dr Phil would say: "How's that working for you?". Vets run a business and you are a very good customer!!! I am saying that because the only thing you haven't tried, is to change his food. This is the very first thing I would of tried. What if Jack is allergic to something in his food? How to know if you don't change it to see? Especially since Pro Plan is NOT generally recognized to be a healthy food to feed your dog. If you had been to a holistic vet, it's the very first thing he/she would of suggested you, I am absolutely certain of that. Plus, the tumors removed from Jack might very well have been caused, also, by the food he's been eating since forever... We are what we eat... that applies to dogs too! And a 30 pounds dog eating pellets takes in 9 pounds of additives and preservatives a year. That can't be good. Can it? What if Jack is reacting to any of those products? You'll never know unless to remove them to replace by something else et see improvement.

Susan, please take the time to go read this article about commercial pet food. http://www.healthyhappydogs.com/APIarticle

You can also visit the site of Sojo's, a company that makes wholesome dog food (www.sojos.com). They have lots of interesting articles on nutrition. Go look at the testimonials they received from customers; it might just convince you to give it a try or to continue to investigate that kind of products. I put my girls on Sojos for a few months, before I learned to cook for them myself, and my vets bills are 0$ so far... Also, Sojos is pretty cheap, is sold all aver the US and some places in Canada or can be delivered right to your door. Of course, homemade is even cheaper and when you know how to (many books on the subject on amazon.com to learn it), it is even cheaper than pellets and SO MUCH better...

EVERYONE I know who put their dog on fresh (instead of pelletized and highly processed) foods, have seen tremedous improvement in their animal. We know fast food is not good for us, but it is not better for dogs! Shiny coat, cleaner teeth, more energy, less sheding and improved overall health are some of the things to expect in a fresh fed dog... Some very allergic or sick dogs go into total remission on fresh foods.

Please Susan, go check it out (at least that's free!!!) and let me know what you think... Today is a beautiful, sunny day, I should be outside doing something or just plainly enjoying... If I took the time to stay inside to write this to you, it is because I so strongly believe that Jack would beneficiate so much from a healthier nutrition and since the nutrition factor seems to have been totally overlooked in the course of treatments he has received, which I find pretty unbelievable...

Take good care and let us know I it goes... We'll keep you in our thoughts...

Now we're going to play in the sun!

[kimshuskies]

I realize it's been awhile since you posted your questions, so I don't know if you'll see this response, but it's worth a try. I have an 11-year old husky with zinc responsive dermatitis. She's had the problem for about 3 years, now. The areas around her eyes and ears look a lot like your Brittany's, but not quite as bad. We too took her to a specialist to find out what the problem was. We have been treating it primarily with over-the-counter zinc pills. We give them to her twice a day with food. She vomits if we give them to her on an empty stomach. You might want to check with your vet for the proper dose for her size. I also switched her food to one that has a high zinc content as listed on the packaging (Nutro Max). Lastly, I apply Skin Cap cream to the affected areas once or twice a day. I don't know much about the cream. It's something I found on the internet and decided to try. I think it works. In the warm months, her symptoms go away almost completely. It's the cold weather that makes it bad. We definitley notice her skin getting worse when we skip a few pills or don't put cream on for a few days. I hope you'll give these ideas a try. Especially the zinc pills. You can get them anywhere. It's definitely worth the extra effort.

[losinsusan]

Hi
Thanks for the reply! I did get it in my email!
Jax is still around and his nose is the worst its ever been. Yes my dog is on Zin Pro supplements daily and has been since being diagnosed. About two years now. Everything cleared up but his nose which cracks and bleeds badly once or twice a week. If I am diligent and keep vasoline on it a few times a day it does help but it seems to clear for a day and the cycle starts over with massive scabbing and bleeding then new tissue appears underneath it. They told me they can't do anymore than we are doing. He seems to be good quality of life wise though thankfully. I thought snow dogs were born with the disease its interesting that yours developed it later in life also. I heard that a black lab appeared at our vet dermatolgist a while after Jax got sick with the same disease. Thank you for your response. Good luck with your dog. My dog also threw up from regular zinc pills. Have your vet try the Zin Pro chewable tablets. They are totally safe unlike other zinc products and they just pee out what they don't need. Mine hates the taste and I have many things I use to crush them up in. From liver sausage to peanut butter. The vet orders them for us and you can search for Zin Pro online. Its used in farm animals also. Take care

[cpietra16]

Glad to hear that you haven't given up. Is her nose worse because its always moist and they tend to lick it more often?

[losinsusan]

No it's because the disease effects the mucous membranes on the body. Before diagnosis and meds his eyes, anal glands, penis, mouth and nose were all crusted and its like a constant breakdown of the cell structure. I guess the nose is just resistant to the treatment. But the rest of him healed very well.

[cpietra16]

It looks so painful. I'm glad he has you for an . Many people would have put her down by now. Thanks for caring:love:

[Prin]

for your perseverance. I'm glad he's doing better.

[cpietra16]

I'm just curious; have you talked to a dermotologist who deals with humans. Would they be able to help in any way. Would they know something that vets dont? I'm sure you've probably tried every route to get the best treatment, but I'm just curious.