Early Stage Kidney Failure in Cat

[Love4himies]

Great job, growler, . You are such a good mom!

[Frenchy]

Sorry I don't come come to this thread often , I just don't have any advice , but you don't seem to need any as I can see , are pretty well inform ! I'm glad Duffy is doing better

[growler~GateKeeper]

Thanks everyone I just hope all this reflects in her kidney values

Originally Posted by chico2

I am dreading Rockys vet-visit,he needs his teeth scaled,but the vet wanted to wait for his Thyroids to be ok:sad:
So far his hyperness(is there such a word)has not improved much,he eats like a piglet,just like Duffy but is not gaining back his weight..:sad:
I have never been able to brush their teeth,especially not Rocky and I am sure it needs doing,so I'll see what the vet says.

Chico - The Dr had Duffy wrapped in a towel sitting on his lap, awake, while he did the hand scaling took less than 5 mins. He mentioned he prefers not to put them under anaethesia for the hand scaling unless also doing xrays/extractions etc. Perhaps your vet could try this with Rocky also

Duffy actually has a little of the opposite problem - she's a little chubby

I started the tooth brushing tonight, after her dinner, but before the Zoom Groom Massage so she gets a about the brushing. Not to happy about it though

The whole atmosphere of the clinic is very comfortable, not sterile clinic, soft comfy lighting, a couch, laminate wood floors (warm sense feeling) art on the wall, alot of natural wood decor. Duffy is way more comfortable there than @ the reg vets office. She even wanders around exploring the room a little, interested in what's here & there, not just running for the crate or door wanting out.

[chico2]

Growler,sounds like a wonderful place
My old vet,used to descale my then cats by hand,she did not even need a towel,they just froze in place.
I wish Rocky had a chubby problem:sad:

[growler~GateKeeper]

So far so good, Duffy feels great, she's eating great loves her raw & she seems to be peeing a little less than before this means her urine is concentrating better

Since I've mentioned them in other threads these are the supplements she's on PB8 capsules (open & mix into food) it's yogurt based so appealing to them. Duffy was prescribed 1 capsule twice daily - 1 in breakfast & 1 in dinner.

She was also prescribed Standard Process Feline Renal Support and Standard Process Feline Whole Body Support these are all natural supplements that include bovine colustrum an ingredient in mother's milk which is what most of the body's natural immunity comes from. They provide nutritional support to the organs & kidneys especially. These again she gets 1 each with breakfast & 1 each with dinner. Duffy is also becoming much better with the pilling....not too much pill spitting anymore but she needs to stop trying to bite my finger while I shove the pill down her throat

I've added Lamb to her Chicken & Beef menu, can try her on a fourth meat this week - variety is the spice of life or so they say

I can't wait to see the test results in early march & see what the blood & urine work reveals

[chico2]

Growler,it all sounds very complicated to me,but I am really happy Duffy is doing better,how could she not be,with all your knowledge,love and care?
Here's hoping for good test-results

[growler~GateKeeper]

Haven't updated in awhile, Duffy's doing great with the exception of a bit if dry stool I'm thinking she maybe getting a little too much bone in the meals, so I'll get some meat only & mix that in. Plus she was eating Duck today & this has psyillum husk in it so that most likely contributed to tonights scare.

Tonight she was constipated :sad: very scary for a while there, she vomited twice before & after she was straining so I know that the reason for the vomiting is because she was constipated & not any other reason. It is common for the CRF cat who is constipated to vomit before & after trying to go. I had called the ER vet to let them know the situation & had called someone for a ride ( no DL ) while waiting for the ride, Duffy had her long awaited poop *phewf* what a relief that was especially since there was no blood & it wasn't runny or very stinky. So I called the ER vet back again updated them & asked whether I should still bring her in, the girl was great - ask how she was looking - since I, not her, could see her & how she was acting & said I could either bring her in or just keep an eye on her for the next couple of hours & call them back if need be. I felt she was fine @ that point especially since she hoovered up some food, just after that my ride arrived Duffy was bright & alert, active & inquisitive so I told them no need to take her in, especially since I have Thursday off I can watch her all day - lucky timing I usually have Wed off.

A half hour or so later Duffy pooped again a proper though abit dry poop this time. No attempting since so I'm sure she's cleaned out.

Definately going to get some boneless meat tomorrow to mix into the bone-in. With any animal getting the right combination of meat, bone & organ is key, all animals are different & you must adjust based on their individual systems.

Other than that she's great........blood & urine retests are going to be done in early March & I am just dying to know how her results stack up against the last ones.

[hazelrunpack]

A tense night! I'm glad she was finally able to go.

You're doing a marvelous job with her, though, growler. for the test results in March!

[Love4himies]

Yes a very tense night. Duffy is sure lucky to have you as a mom, you are doing a great job.

[phoozles]

Great job growler!! You've got a good eye on her and you've become a kind of CRF genius since this all began!

So glad to hear Duffy is doing well - aside from last night's scare, of course!

[rainbow]

Poor you and poor Duffy ....that must have been quite the scare. Glad she finally pooped.

[krdahmer]

I'm glad Duffy is feeling better! Oh and those baby Duffy pics in the Feb thread are so adorable!!! I don't think I posted that there...

Is this raw you're feeding like a mix you buy frozen or something? The raw I've tried so far my guys hate (the girls I can't even tempt with canned). They even tried to bury it like it was poop. I'm really trying to push the canned, and at least the boys are doing well with it... but the girls even if no dry is out for a day and a half, will NOT eat it. And I can't bring myself to let them go longer than that without eating. The good thing here is that they all drink a lot of water, it's always fresh and all over the house.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Thanks everyone for the support

Krdahmer I pm'd you the info


So I'm pretty sure it was a combination of the CRF (the CRF cats' body tries to conserve as much water as possible & does pull moisture out of the stool & back into the body) and the perhaps tiny bit too high bone content in the chicken & esp the pysillium husk & bone in the duck she had yesterday. The other meat varieties she eats don't have bone content, so I have picked up some chicken & organ no bone to mix in with the bone-in chicken, thereby lowering the bone content of her meals. I think we'll be skipping duck for a while until she is properly regulated.

The other thing the owner of In The Raw (my raw food store) suggested was to add some water to her raw meals to make them a stew-ish (not soupy) consistancy. She has been drinking after eating which is great but this will add a little extra water to her food.

Plus add in approx 1/4 tsp of pureed Butternut Squash from either Heinz Organics babyfood or Earth Organics babyfood. Butternut squash works just as well as sweet potato & pumpkin but apparently tastes better I don't think I'll be doing a taste test . Well Duffy actually likes the butternut squash - she happily licked it off my finger & wait for more The butternut squash will regulate the moisture in the bowels, if there is not enough it will replace it but if there is too much it will firm it up a bit. Magic vegetable

We'll see how her litterbox deposits are over the next few days

[chico2]

Growler,do you think baby-food Butternut Squash would help Rockys runny poop??
I am waiting to next week to see what the new vet says,Rocky has had loose poop,pretty well since last October,probably a side-effect of the Tapazole and nothing seems to help:sad:

[growler~GateKeeper]

Chico - yes it most likely will, it works the same as pumpkin or sweet potato but cats prefer the taste of Butternut Squash - even Duffy was licking it off my finger & has not problem with it in her dinner.

Pick up the small jar of either Earth Organics or Heinz Organics, use about 1/4 tsp per meal, since the food will go bad in the fridge before you use it all up scoop it into ice cube trays & freeze it. I found in my tray there was more babyfood than tray to do it per 1/4 tsp so I ended up with a teaspoon in most of them & 3/4 of a tsp in 2 spaces - it's easy to section cut the babyfood while frozen, then dump it in a plastic bag. Add to the meal & place the dish in a sink of hot water to warm the food up abit (most cats love warm food) this will melt the frozen cube & then you can mix in with the rest of the food

[chico2]

Thank's Growler,I'll get some,hopefully Rocky will like it

[JamesO]

Our mixed breed dog was diagnosed with very low kidney function at the age of about 13. We were told by the vet to put him on a low protien diet, so we purchased low protien dog food from the vet. We still fed him some meats occasionally as we didn't want to take too much away from him.

He lived to the age of 18 and we finally had to make the decision to put him down because he had difficulty getting up and even moving. His kidneys, though, were not an issue and we attribute much of this to the low protien diet.

Your case may be different, but maybe a change of diet will add some years to your kitty's life.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by JamesO

Your case may be different, but maybe a change of diet will add some years to your kitty's life.

You might want to read the entire thread. Low protein diets for cats are inappropriate.

[ReneeCK]

All I want to do is ask 1 question. Can cats or dogs eat raw or cooked potatoes? I was told once it can cause kidney failure? Is that true?? Thank You:sad:

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by JamesO

We were told by the vet to put him on a low protien diet, so we purchased low protien dog food from the vet.

Your case may be different, but maybe a change of diet will add some years to your kitty's life.

As Sugarcatmom says low protein is totally innapropriate for cats, and studies in the last 10 years also find low protein for dogs is a myth & is unneccessary. Duffy was eating the recalled Royal Canin vet prescription food and that is the reason she got CRF & I would never feed a vet rx food again.

Originally Posted by ReneeCK

All I want to do is ask 1 question. Can cats or dogs eat raw or cooked potatoes? I was told once it can cause kidney failure? Is that true?? Thank You:sad:

From what I've read potatoes won't directly cause it, many of the kidney diets (both prescription, home cooked & raw diets) have potato in them. Green potatoes however should be avoided, they may cause violent gastro-intestinal upset in cats & dogs too. The issue with potato is the potassium level it is abit too high, therefore to remove some of the potassium from the potato soak peeled potatoes in a large container in water for several hours, then cook them in fresh water. They can be fed raw (never green) potatoes as well - I would soak them too, & because of the high potassium - feed in moderation.

You can use the potassium level in your cat or dogs' blood test to determine if potatoes should be avoided or fed less frequently. In dogs with kidney failure some have high levels of potassium in their blood & should limit foods such as potatoes, banana, pumpkin. However some dogs will have low blood potassium & will need either a supplement or slighly higher levels of potassium rich foods.

Grapes & raisins fed in large quantities have been linked to kidney damage in dogs

[growler~GateKeeper]

Duffy had blood & urine work done yesterday, just waiting for the results - should be in tomorrow. I can't wait

We also have a recheck scheduled with the homeopath vet for next wednesday to see how she's doing, go over the test results & decide what to do with the 1 bad tooth (kidney values must be stabilized before any anaethesia).

Unfortunately I work until 7pm tomorrow get home around 8 so I have to wait extra long to see the results. I told the girl @ the reg vet (where the blood was taken) that the vet didn't need to call unless she saw something alarming in the results as I've become fairly good @ reading results & we have an appt w/homeopath next week anyways. If it's good results I think the reg vet doesn't need to take time away from other patients when I'm seeing another vet next week.

I had the girl weigh Duffy as well & she's dropped 0.16kg since Oct this is good she's now @ 5.48kg (12.08lbs from 12.43lbs)

I'm thinking I will do a full switch to the homeopath (who is also trained in conventional vet med) & not go to the reg vet anymore. The philosophy of homeopathy speaks to me & I "get" the whole package idea (energy(aura)/stress/food/chemicals/trauma/death etc all playing a role in the overall health of the pet). Not sure I could go conventional again.

Finally, finally!!! got compensation coming from Royal Canin for the kidney issues - they are mailing out a cheque (takes 6 weeks?!?! from Ont ) that reimburses me for all the testing (not counting the ones from yesterday will send those in after next week exam) & exams including the homeopath visits. They will not cover the supplements because they are "not gov't regulated" meaning not conventional treatment methods even after I mentioned due to the homeopath's treatment protocol & supplements she is feeling better no such compensation for pain/suffering/emotional trauma etc

Will update after I get the results from the testing

[Love4himies]

hoping for good results on Duffy's bloodwork.

[chico2]

Growlerfor good results
I'd totally forgotten that Duffy got sick in the contamination-scandal,she's very lucky to be alive and have a mom like you.
It's a good thing you at least got some compensation for all you and Duffy have been through.

[hazelrunpack]

for good results!

And I'm so glad you're getting some compensation for all the testing you've had done! It won't make up for the emotional wear and tear, but it at least helps the funding issue. Will they continue to pay for follow-up visits to the homeopath, even if they won't pay for the supplements?

[growler~GateKeeper]

L4H, Chico & Hazel Thanks for the good wishes, vibes & prayers

Originally Posted by hazelrunpack

Will they continue to pay for follow-up visits to the homeopath, even if they won't pay for the supplements?

I'll make sure they will when it relates to the kidneys


So her results came in not too far off what I was hoping & better than expecting - you know the saying "expect the worse & you'll be pleasantly surprised" though I think it's actually "you'll never be disapointed" or something like that

The 5 main values to keep a close eye on are Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN), Creatinine, Calcium, Phosphate & Urine Specific Gravity there are others in combination with these which can indicate a worsening state but these are the "most important" in dealing with kidney failure.

Test in Sept 07
Blood Urea Nitrogen 14.3 mmol/L..HIGH (ref range 5.0-12.5)
Creatinine 211.8 umol/L..............HIGH (ref range 83-181)
Calcium 2.45 mmol/L...............normal (ref range 2.26-2.74)
Phosphorus 1.23 mmol/L..........normal (ref range 1.07-1.98)
SG 1.038.......normal (ref range 1.008 - 1.060 normal is 1.030-1.040) lower the sg the more dilute sg of water is 1 this is bad in relation to cats' urine it's supposed to be concentrated

Test in Mar 08
Blood Urea Nitrogen 17.4 mmol/L.HIGH increase of 3.1 mmol/L
Creatinine 223.2 umol/L.............HIGH increase of 11.4 umol/L
Calcium 2.64 mmol/L...........normal but increase of 0.19 mmol/L
Phosphorus 1.63 mmol/L......normal but increase of 0.04 mmol/L
SG 1.031....................barely normal but a decrease of 0.007

Overall not too bad, the Lab Dr's notes indication the slight presence of blood in the urine they have indicated UTI though there is also the possiblity of hypertension resulting in blood in the urine. She also had the same value of blood in urine listed last time but it wasn't commented on then - this all depends on the Dr doing the testing it's their findings.

Duffy is definately feeling better, more alert & active, got some of her Tortitude back that was lacking a little the last couple of months. The supplements she is on have definately helped & she comes over willingly to be pilled (of course she don't get fed unless she's taken them ) Loves her raw food

Homeopath recheck next week I'll have to remember this time to ask for a blood pressure reading, was going to last visit but forgot

[hazelrunpack]

Good for Duffy for getting her tortitude back in action!

It'll be interesting to hear the homeopath's take on the numbers.

[luckypenny]

I'm confused . Blood Urea Nitrogen and Creatinine is good when it's high? As for the calcium and phosphorus...the increase is good?

Great news she's feeling so much better .

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by luckypenny

I'm confused . Blood Urea Nitrogen and Creatinine is good when it's high? As for the calcium and phosphorus...the increase is good?

Great news she's feeling so much better .

No, not good when it's high but I was expecting it to be even higher - basically the results came back better (not as high) than expected, the numbers are lower than I thought they might be.

The BUN & Creatinine are too high out of the normal range but have risen slower than the comparison between tests in apr and sept
The Calcium & phosphate are still in normal range but have gone up slightly, I need to make sure these don't go out of the normal range.

I would have preferred all the values to have dropped or stayed the same with the exception of the Urine Specific Gravity that one is bad when lower. I was hoping the USG would have gone up a bit meaning more concentrated, especially since she is not peeing as often as before which you would think that would show more concentration. She was peeing small amounts several times a day & now she is going slightly more volume wise but only twice a day.

Cat's bodies are designed to conserve water which is why they have a low thirst drive. Their kidneys will actually concentrate their urine in order to remove some of the water to use elsewhere in the body. Higher Urine Specific Gravity is better meaning more concentrated - kidneys are functioning normally, the lower the SG the more dilute the urine, the cat drinks more & pees more in order to flush the toxins from the body, this puts more stress on the kidneys.

[luckypenny]

Thanks for the explanation . Would you guess that the reference ranges might differ slightly for a raw fed cat? I know it does in some instances for dogs but not sure about cats .

[growler~GateKeeper]

I have read that too but haven't yet been able to find what the ref ranges would be I will keep digging & I'll ask my Homeopath vet next week if he has a raw fed ref range that differs from the regular one.


LP, Hazel & TeriM Thank You too for the good wishes