#61
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Yes, Lindy was innocent, I'm merely pointing out that so many thought she was not. These mothers have to go through enough without all this on top of it. I'll bet poor Lindy wishes she had never left her baby alone .
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#62
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i have to say Goldfields,,Lindy Chamberlain is an excellent example here..She was totally railroaded and was tried by the media. In this case not knowing what the police know i guess making any real choice on what should happen to the mom shoule be put on the back burner until the rest of the story comes out.
lol, i'm one of those odd people that just reads everything for the sake of reading and knew all the case info on LC.. |
#63
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I'm on the fence what to do with the dogs.
I would like the dogs to go through a complete evaultion, blood and temperment to see if their a danger to society, what are the chances of them doing this again or even biting. I think the owner of the huskies is just as responsible as the ignornant mother. He should have never put his dogs in a situation they couldn't handle. He must have known, his dogs weren't good with kids or babies. Or they were unpredictable. Yet, he put them in a home with a baby. Totally irresponsible pet owner. I have a husky mix, she's HORRIBLE with kids and I would NEVER ever trust her in a home with kids or babies. I have to protect my dog againest herself, which the owner of these dogs neglected to do. Plus the dogs have ran away from him many times, roamed the neighbourhood. Not the best pet owner and he shouldn't have any dogs or have these dogs back. I agree, man slaughter charges are extreme, but I think neglect is too soft. I don't know what the right answer is, I doubt there's one. A baby got bruality killed by dogs...someone needs to take responsibilty for that. Last edited by poodletalk; June 9th, 2010 at 10:43 AM. |
#64
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poodletalk, glad you feel as I do about the owners of the dogs. We do have to protect our dogs and they failed theirs miserably.
Aslan, what a mess that made of the Chamberlains' lives, hey? At least not many people were screaming about charging her for negligence, they were too busy charging her with murder. I always thought a dingo quite capable seeing I had a big male cattle dog at the time which traced back to a kennel where the breeder didn't mind saying that there wasn't a dog in his kennels that didn't have dingo within 3 generations. He bred both dingoes and cattle dogs and obviously crossed them. Not known to me when I bought my pup of course. Anyway, my bloke was big enough and probably feral enough to take a baby and he had a bit of a nasty streak. Easy for me to imagine that rotten dingo killing Azaria. |
#65
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sweet innocent baby
The laws will decide the rest.........
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
#66
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responsibility....hmmmm - I'm not sure what that means here, I think we are talking about 'justice' here but WHO is the justice for? Is it for we the public? Is it for the baby? Can we give the baby justice by locking up the mother? or are we so outraged that we just want someone to pay in an effort that this will encourage others not to make horrible stupid mistakes? Will it even work?
__________________
Please tactfully EDUCATE or IGNORE posters you don't agree with. Please PM me & Include URLs and post #'s for any issues and it's my pleasure to help. I'm firm - but fair. Mind the Rules and enjoy your stay. Newcomers FAQ - How do I post on this BB? Pet facebook group Check out the Pet podcast Follow me on Twitter |
#67
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You cannot go past the fact that if the owners had locked their dogs up, this would not have happened.
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#68
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Playing Devil's advocate here - If I am understanding this statement right you are saying the dog(s) killed once so may kill again. Is that right? If so - one name for you - Michael Vick. Is it not true some of his dogs have been rehabilitated? They for sure tasted blood more than once. Sorry to be off topic but - besides the fact one case had dogs, this one had a baby; not much difference in my eyes. If they thought dogs that had been through that much abuse and horrific situations could be rehabed then what's the difference in this case? Dogs fault? The only one who will ever know what happened in that room is God. The little one is gone and the dogs can't talk. JMO Like I said - Devil's advocate. I myself am not sure what to do with the dogs. I would hate to be in that position. Having been a single teen mom at 18 I would never, ever have left my child in that position. Should the mom have to face penalties - sure shooting. Again - JMO
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
#69
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I don't see these cases as being the same at all. In the Vick case the dogs were the victims. Here the victim is a baby and the mother is also a victim of her own irresponsibility/stupidity/neglect/mistake. COMPLETELY different imo.
(I'm going to leave this thread for a while....but I'll read it with interest later today)
__________________
Please tactfully EDUCATE or IGNORE posters you don't agree with. Please PM me & Include URLs and post #'s for any issues and it's my pleasure to help. I'm firm - but fair. Mind the Rules and enjoy your stay. Newcomers FAQ - How do I post on this BB? Pet facebook group Check out the Pet podcast Follow me on Twitter Last edited by marko; June 9th, 2010 at 11:33 AM. |
#70
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14+,,i would probably totally trust ANY of MV's dogs with a person,,,i would never in my life totally trust it with another dog as this is what they were trained to kill. Pitties by the norm are not people agressive and these dogs weren't trained to attack humans. Wouldn't leave them alone with a baby either tho.. Goldfields,,gotta say after reading all the info on LC,,you guys have a totally different legal system than we do. the whole bit about the defence not being allowed to test evidence or see the crowns evidence for the second trial is ummm interesting to say the least. |
#71
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The owner of the dogs need to take responsibilty of failing his dogs miserably and the brutal killing of the baby.
The mother needs to take responsibilty for the bruital killing of her baby that could have been 100% prevented. |
#72
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Geesh, I wish the justice system would think like you, pedophiles, rapists, murderers would stay in jail for the rest of their lives where they should be.
__________________
Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
#73
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i didn't get the impression from the articles that the dogs owners were even home. But yes they should have been crated while they were away from the home. The babies mothers were. |
#74
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BTW, many of those who have caused death with their vehicle do get off, it seems to be an acceptable cause of killing people , especially cyclists.
__________________
Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
#75
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imo if you kill someone in a car by (true) accident (no booze, drugs, speeding etc) you should not be charged. Life is full of terrible terrible accidents. It just is.
in this case, neglect also plays a part so in this case, i think she should be charged but the punishment imo should be minimal...ok really...gonna come back to this later....
__________________
Please tactfully EDUCATE or IGNORE posters you don't agree with. Please PM me & Include URLs and post #'s for any issues and it's my pleasure to help. I'm firm - but fair. Mind the Rules and enjoy your stay. Newcomers FAQ - How do I post on this BB? Pet facebook group Check out the Pet podcast Follow me on Twitter |
#76
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#77
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Sorry but leaving a new born baby on the floor with dogs and kids running about is negligent, ignorant, and stupid, and stop using "she was only a child" excuse!!!! I was babysitting (kids and babies) at the age of 13 for dogs sake and I would have never done anything that stupid, even at 13 I knew better!! Besides the 37 year old grandmother was there, shouldn't she have know better!!?? IMO some "people" should be fixed!! RIP sweet baby
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What is man without beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected. ~~Chief Seattle (Duwamish tribe)~~ |
#78
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It was complete 100% neglect. I am certain that the mother did not purposely place the child on the floor or the chair and go for a smoke or whatever else and think 'I am going to purposely do this so the dogs can kill her'! Come on.
I have done some pretty darn stupid things in my life, as I am certain ALL of us have done. No matter what form of stupidity it was..we did it. And for whatever reason were lucky that it did not cost our lives, our animal's lives or anyone else's life. I feel terrible for everyone concerning this incident on so many levels. I do not however feel at all sorry for the dog...not at all because I truly believe that this was going to happen regardless at some point. It just proves to me once again that owning animals is not a right. It is a priveldge. I WISH that if one wants to have a dog, regardless of breed, there should be courses to take to certify you knowledgeable enough to have a dog. But of course - that is a ridiculous and impractical thought. |
#79
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Criminal Negligence - Criminal Code of Canada 219
"Cases of criminal negligence arise from acts or omissions when the accused was under a legal duty to do something or should have done something. To meet the standard for criminal negligence, the act or omission must show a wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons. Negligence is often defined as: •not doing something which a reasonable person would do, or; doing something which a reasonable person would not do. Thus negligence can involve acts of commission and acts of omission. In order to register a conviction the crown must generally show the court that the accused had a duty to perform, there was a breach of that duty, and there was an injury or loss." Manslaughter: "If somebody is committing an illegal act and causes the death of an individual then they are found guilty of manslaughter. Though the person died, there was no intention to cause death. Perhaps, there was only an intention to hurt someone but if a person dies because of that criminal act, the charge is manslaughter. The sentencing options for manslaughter are very complicated because there is no minimum. You can get anything from probation (which is unlikely) to life in jail. Often individuals found guilty of manslaughter will serve medium range penitentiary terms, in the neighbourhood of 7 to 15 years." IMHO, not only should the mother not be charged with "Manslaughter" but be charged with "criminal negligence", but so should the grandmother, and the owners of the Huskies. I doubt very much that the mother would get much of a sentence if found guilty since she's a juvenile, probably a fine and maybe some months probation, or some light sentence. Unfortunately, this was a very tragic circumstance all around. And as to the Huskies, what should be done? IMHO if it could be determined which dog mauled the baby, that one should be euthanized. But at any rate, don't think the dogs they should be returned to the owner. Tragic as it is, it's my hope that with the widespread publicity this story has received in newspapers and TV, that it is a wakeup call and education to any dog owner that they never ever should leave a child unsupervised or vulnerable to attack by a dog, no matter how friendly or obedient it may be. Perhaps by the baby's tragic death, others may be saved by this heartbreak, and parents/guardians/babysitters may be educated about the possibility of this danger. sweet baby
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous Last edited by catlover2; June 9th, 2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Additional info. had been omitted. |
#80
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On cfcf12, there's a topic tonight, "how dangerous are huskies"
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#81
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It should be "how dangerous are some 17 year old mothers" since so many are using her age as an excuse for this tragic incident .
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What is man without beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected. ~~Chief Seattle (Duwamish tribe)~~ |
#82
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That is just great.
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#83
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
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#85
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and about that quick puff outside .... not sure about quick , some say they were out for 20 to 30 minutes. There's also something wrong between the time of the attack (between 3:30 and 3:40) and the time when the ambulance people pronounce the baby's death (5:45) .... |
#86
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they probably went back outside for another joint and a smoke before they called.
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#87
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ditto ! |
#88
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I think they needed to hide some stuff before the police got there ....
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#89
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It says that in fatal attacks huskies are third after Pitties and Rotties... I love huskies...always wanted one and still do. Don't blame the dogs when the owners are at fault...any breed!
__________________
Mum to Ziggy (6) and Zuzu (5), Zoey (8) and Raggzy (3) Keena (2)...my own little Heaven! Ginger and Hobo at the Bridge (Valentine's Day 2011) but NEVER forgotten <3... "I have sent you on a journey to a land free from pain, not because I did not love you, but because I loved you too much to force you to stay" ♥ ♥ We do not have to wait for Heaven, to be surrounded by hope, love, and joyfulness. It is here on earth and has four legs! |
#90
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they have special puppers just for finding said hide substances...
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