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Pedigree Dogs Exposed
Playing right now on CBC NN , so far , hard to watch. They're showing how people who show dogs , have slowly but surely , screw up the breeds. Health problems ... one of them , cancer in Goldens , something I know too well. How Daschounds have shorter legs etc ...
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#2
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What does NN stand for? I'm gonna go look for it.
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"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant |
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I have no idea , that's how it's listed with Shaw satellite
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Do you think it's a typo for CNN?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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CBC News Network.
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http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/pass.../pedigreedogs/
it's going to play again on later dates. I think you can also watch it online. |
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Gol dang...I can't even get the initial page to load I think I'm having trouble with my internet again
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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I've seen this before - and you have to take it with a grain of salt. Just remember that every documentary produced has an agenda and nothing is unbiased.
I'm not saying there are not valid points being made - for example, the utmost importance of health testing as well as being careful with close inline breeding; but they take it a bit too far when comparing the dogs shows to Nazis! |
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Quote:
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If one is doing proper health testing prior to breeding - how is that creating more health problems?
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Is this the same as the BBC documentary, highlighting Britain's champion pug, and the cavaliers skull issues? I dont really remember them talking about dachshunds or goldens much. If its the same, it's on Google video
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#13
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Quote:
That oversimplifies, but it's a common consequence of domestication/breed development.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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Quote:
Quote:
holy crap they showed a Pekenese (sp) who won best in show , had to be put on ice while getting his prize because of a heart condition. and he won best in show ! so , who cares about the health condition , the dog looks good by 'standards' ! |
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Just gotta look nice on the outside, who cares about the inside!
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Same goes for pedigree cats , I saw pictures of purebred cats from back in the 50's and 60's , they looked very different than what they do today. Not for the better health wise.
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Exactly , and these are breeding dogs ! Spreading the health problems ....
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#18
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They didn't do it intentionally Often, the health problems didn't show up clearly for generations. Now the struggle is to breed the health problems out! And as the science and technologies become more refined, it'll make that job easier.
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference." "It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!" "Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle." |
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Like with everything there are reputable and not.
In the show world there are those who are just as sneaky as a byb. not all breeders who show do health testing, and not all breeders that do health testing show. People who are looking to sell pups know that many people who really dont know a whole lot about what is really involved with showing and how easy it is to obtain a title if you were to "stack" your breed for points for your dogs. Like I have said many times around here, even the best looking websites for "ethical show breeders" can have some very dark secrets, like when someone came on here looking at TM breeders in Canada and everyone here said the the one kennel who showed the dog was the only ethical one seriously made me laugh and shake my head. What looks ethical isnt always. Dog shows do state what dogs conform to standard but now many of you are questioning standards. So if I were to breed working GSD's but refused to breed for the sloping topline, my dogs would not conform to standard which would make many of you on here say I was unethical. then in the next breath you would be complaining about the sloping topline that is the breed standard. There is no pleasing everyone I know, but until parent groups start standing up for their breeds and not jepordizing their health this will continue. I will NOT breed oversized TM's no matter how well they would do in the ring (how quickly they would obtain their CH), the pro's and cons list has too many points for cons so for now I will continue working towards our working titles even though we are showing this fall, its purely for fun and I dont care either way if lets say Karma or Marv took BIS all weekend or not.
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Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyways. ~John Wayne |
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I can tell you it's far easier being a pet owner than a breeder. If you really care about structure ,conformation, movement and soundness then it's an uphill battle trying to find sound stud dogs to use that also have the type, temperament. coat etc. you want. I used to start looking the minute I decided to retain a female pup. America does far more health testing than they do here so even though I hip scored my girls, finding a dog that was also hip scored was almost impossible, without all the other things like heart problems, eye problems etc. that people don't want to talk about or test for. I've seen cattle dogs change just so much in the past 35 years here. They've gone from being up to height strong dogs with their forelegs back under their withers, to small dogs with cute spitz type faces and shocking fronts. People say to me "Isn't that dog moving well?" and the answer is "NO it's not!" It's moving fast with a lot of small steps. I once took two dogs with me when we visited a friend down on his Hereford Cattle stud. I was delighted when I let them out and, without even saying hello, he said, pointing at the short stocky one, "I don't know whether you own that dog but I don't like him". I just laughed and said "neither do I, Jack, he won't be used for breeding". He really loved my blue girl though, and the point is, that sort of opinion, from a chap who worked his cattle with dogs all his life, was more important to me than what any judge would tell me. I think I'm lucky though, I live in the country, midway between two capitals, and we don't have many of my breed in the area. I've got my eye in on a working type of dog, not what is fashionable(and sometimes so wrong) in the show ring.
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#21
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Having a GD, I can understand the sentiment of 'bigger is better' - and yet, all those who want (and have) the biggest, bulkiest GD on the block will no doubt end up with a dog with joint issues at a younger age. What is preferred in the ring though? From my limited showing experience, it's been a toss up. Some judges prefer the bulkier/bigger look - others prefer the leaner look. We insist that judges compare to the 'standard' - but the competition in itself is flawed because it's based on opinion. Myself, I'm happy as a clam that Loki is on the leaner side and sitting at a comfortable 35". I think I had a point to make at one time.. but now it's lost.. and it's early in the morning. |
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The same thing happened to the Burmese which now have such flat faces they look ugly from the very sweet faces they used to have. There are some breeders who refused to "go along" with this nonsense and in CFA they actually have two Burmese recognized now--- the "European Burmese" or traditional one, and the more extreme one. Fortunately, there are breeders who are interested in the health and vitality of their cats, who refuse to breed to such extremes that is detrimental to the breed and keep the cat's health foremost in their minds. There are some breeds that have not changed their standard very much over the years, the Korat, Manx and Birman come to mind.
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"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous Last edited by catlover2; August 10th, 2010 at 09:54 AM. |
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FOr those interested here is a Youtube clip of the documentary, highlighting German Shepherd dogs and their sloping backs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIaM3hYFszc full video http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoid=44215931 After the airing of this documentary the Crufts dog show (biggest show in Britain) from airing on TV. I don't know if it is still airing or not. I wonder how many of the same issues found in UK dogs are found in common North American pets. Unscrupulous breeding, and non conformity to standards in pet bred animals could possibly be saving the dogs from some conditions, while unfortunately causing them new ones. I personally think it is worst to breed a dog KNOWING it has a history of medical ailments then putting the breeding up to dumb luck (even though 2 perfectly healthy dogs can still create medical disasters for puppies). Last edited by cell; August 10th, 2010 at 10:03 AM. |
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And they were so much cuter before IMO. they all were.
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Again , that is so sad , GSDs were beautiful as they were.
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#26
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When we were looking for a GSD breeder, we did not want an oversized GSD or one with a sloping back because of the health problems.
Now when we walk our guy, people often stop to chat and i hear the following way too many times 'oh, my friend has such a BEAUTIFUL GSD, he is a king GSD, so large, he is 8 months and already the size of yours and his parents were so big, he will weigh 130 punds for sure' (i leave it at that, but in my head i think... imagine the health problems... why would u intentionally oversize a GSD??') Another one i often get is 'oh is that a pure bred??? cuz his back isnt sloped.... the real GSDs have sloped backs'.... People's bias towards 'looks' creates a demand for dogs that look good, not dogs that are healthy... and as long as demand is there.... there will be people to capitalize on that and breed dogs taht look good but have a myriad of health issues....
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Monkey and Amy (cats) Jermy (GSD) “Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God.” "The average dog is a nicer person than the average person." |
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Masha, what makes me shudder is to see GSDs with that exaggerated slope walk by at a show and see the hocks wavering from side to side. Or in my breed, the ACD, to see dogs with deep stops. The reason the standard asks for muzzle and skull to be on parallel planes with a slight but definite stop was so that if the dog was working and got kicked in the face by a steer, the blow would glance off over the skull, instead of smashing it. It is really the judges that mess breeds up. If they had always judged to the Standards, breeders would try and breed to it. I only chose two of the obvious faults there of course, there are many more.
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#28
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I saw a 4 month old GSD pup at the dog park the other day, could barely pull its butt off the ground, sad sight when it should have been ripping around having fun. Instead it was withdrawn and uninterested.
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#29
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Thanks for mentioning that, it was going through my head while I was reading this thread.
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
#30
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This is exactly what I was ranting about a while ago. My Cocker Spaniel has the heart and mind of an excellent retriever but the physiology of a "parlour dog". It's so frustrating when we take her out for a ramble by the river. She's got the attitude but she'd never survive in the field.
BTW, have you checked out the Working vs. Show thread? I've posted some pictures and there's a comparasin of Dachshunds too. Very interesting.
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If you're green, you're growing...if you're ripe, you're rotting! I try to greet the world like my pets do...boundless enthusiasm, intense curiosity and no concept of yesterday and tomorrow. |
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