Early Stage Kidney Failure in Cat

[lm9012]

Thanks for the update Growler! Glad to see Duffy is doing so well and of course that she has adjusted so well to the fluid therapy. I've always found it is harder on us than them adjusting to poking them, etc. To this day I still cringe when I do it, but Albert just looks up at me with his big brown eyes like saying 'It's Ok mommy'. Actually the pic on my avatar above is him getting his fluids! probably can't see, but that's a big ol' lump of fluid behind his head! this is his typical stance, such a good boy just waiting patiently...it's amazing how strong and resilient they are isn't it??

How are you getting the fluids? through the vets?

In case you didn't know, check around the local pharmacies and see if they carry the fluids and needles. You'd be so surprised at how much you can save by buying the case of fluids.

I used to get two bags of fluid, several needles and an IV drip tube for about $30 at the vets. Now I get a case of a dozen bags of Lactated Ringers (fluid) for around $24, a box of 100 18-g needles (Haveheard a lot about the Terumos' haven't tried them yet) for around $5, and the tubes run me around another $10.00!

I'm learning to always check with the local pharmacies for meds..especially nowadays that they have those $4 generics at Kmart, Walmart, and Target. Albert has some issues with his eye right now, and I saved over $50 buying his eyedrops and ointments at Costco. Even if the local pharmacies don't carry it, you can buy the stuff online too for cheaper. I always ask for a prescription instead of buying them at the vets.

I rather have my money towards making my baby happy and staying healthy so we can keep kicking CRF's butt!!
Again..congrats and best wishes!!

[badger]

What a soulful face. How could anyone resist her?

[hazelrunpack]

Purrrrrrdy Duffy

Glad to hear she's doing so well, growler!

[growler~GateKeeper]

Thanks everyone

Originally Posted by lm9012

Thanks for the update Growler! Glad to see Duffy is doing so well and of course that she has adjusted so well to the fluid therapy. I've always found it is harder on us than them adjusting to poking them, etc. To this day I still cringe when I do it, but Albert just looks up at me with his big brown eyes like saying 'It's Ok mommy'. Actually the pic on my avatar above is him getting his fluids! probably can't see, but that's a big ol' lump of fluid behind his head! this is his typical stance, such a good boy just waiting patiently...it's amazing how strong and resilient they are isn't it??

How are you getting the fluids? through the vets?

In case you didn't know, check around the local pharmacies and see if they carry the fluids and needles. You'd be so surprised at how much you can save by buying the case of fluids.

I used to get two bags of fluid, several needles and an IV drip tube for about $30 at the vets. Now I get a case of a dozen bags of Lactated Ringers (fluid) for around $24, a box of 100 18-g needles (Haveheard a lot about the Terumos' haven't tried them yet) for around $5, and the tubes run me around another $10.00!

I'm learning to always check with the local pharmacies for meds..especially nowadays that they have those $4 generics at Kmart, Walmart, and Target. Albert has some issues with his eye right now, and I saved over $50 buying his eyedrops and ointments at Costco. Even if the local pharmacies don't carry it, you can buy the stuff online too for cheaper. I always ask for a prescription instead of buying them at the vets.

I rather have my money towards making my baby happy and staying healthy so we can keep kicking CRF's butt!!
Again..congrats and best wishes!!

lm9012 Yeah I see Albert's fluid lump there - what a good boy staying for mum

They sure are strong, resilient & so very patient with the whole process too, just amazing

There is a local medical supply company in the next town over from me that does not sell to the public but supplies to doctors & physiotherapists, though they also have an over counter sales for CRF kitties So I get them cheaper than if I bought from the vets or the pharmacy. $5.15CDN per LRS bag, $2.45CDN per drip line and they deliver , last order was 10 bags & lines they didn't even charge for shipping which has been about $5CDN. The Terumo Ultra Thin Wall needles are great I'm using the 20g hardly feel the poke & the drip rate is minimally slower than the 18g regular needles. My vet was very happy that I found this company to get all the stuff cheaper .

for Albert's eye issues and of course for his Albert's continued great health - yes we sure are kicking CRF's butt

[otter]

Oh Growler, I think about you and Duffy all the time... such an inspiring duo you are I'm so happy for you guys that Duffy is doing well.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Thanks otter

[gkjones]

Growler, I'm glad to read that things are going well for you and your Duffy. You sound like a very caring and careful mom to Duffy.

After losing my little one in December, I took my other 16 y.o. cat Molly to a new vet for a wellness exam. All looks good except that she is in the early stages of renal compromise (U.S. values: phosphorus normal at 3.9; bun elevated at 59; creatinine elevated at 3.6 -- CDN values, if I've done the calculations correctly: phosphorus 1.26, bun 19.28, creatinine 318.24 ... do the conversions look right?). The vet said to transition her to a low protein, renal support diet. As her phosphorus is okay, he didn't mention lower phosphorus (he might have been implying it by suggesting a "renal support" diet), but it sounds as if I should be avoiding higher phosphorus foods, too. I'm assuming that 7% - 10% is lower protein, which means that most of the wet Wellness and Nature's Variety meat versions are a-okay so that I can continue giving them to her, perhaps supplementing them with additional water (I should avoid the fish versions though, no?). We plan to recheck her in 3 months, unless problems develop sooner, and will consider subcutaneous fluids then if needed.

My question: I've read through this very useful thread but am sure I've missed something. Would some kind soul consider summarizing (a) what are the best wet foods with lower protein and low phosphorus, (b) what are acceptable dry foods to use, and (b) what are other treatment recommendations for early renal compromise elderly cats?

The summary would be great as a sticky!

[krdahmer]

That summary is a great idea, so that newbies with this issue could get the main pointers and advice quick and easy (this is a long thread)!

And I am so glad that purdy Duffy is still doing great!! She's one lucky kitty to have such a devoted mom!!!

I do have one question though about something you mentioned there in the update.... about poop... I had always thought that the hard dark poo was good, but you mentioned it as being dry, which I never thought of before... Smoke's poo has always been small and hard and dry, does this mean she's not been getting enough fluids for years? Since she's been eating mostly wet food these last few weeks I've noticed a big change in her poop, it's larger and not so dry (but formed, firm and healthy looking like everyone else's here). I never really related the size to moisture, I've always just figured they were so small because she's never been a big eater.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by krdahmer

I do have one question though about something you mentioned there in the update.... about poop... I had always thought that the hard dark poo was good, but you mentioned it as being dry, which I never thought of before... Smoke's poo has always been small and hard and dry, does this mean she's not been getting enough fluids for years? Since she's been eating mostly wet food these last few weeks I've noticed a big change in her poop, it's larger and not so dry (but formed, firm and healthy looking like everyone else's here). I never really related the size to moisture, I've always just figured they were so small because she's never been a big eater.

Relatively hard, but not too hard, dark poop is good. Duffy has occasionally had dry bits in hers which are much lighter in colour and sometimes a little difficult to pass but that is due to her kidneys pulling as much moisture from everywhere as they can to redistribute to the rest of the body.

Smoke's poop likely was hard & dry because she was on dry food right? Not enough moisture in the food to begin with especially if she's not a big water drinker. Now she's on canned FF right? so the fillers are higher = more poop volume.

Poop size doesn't relate to moisture as far as I know, more on the amount of non-nutrient waste that is not absorbed nor used by the body.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by gkjones

All looks good except that she is in the early stages of renal compromise (U.S. values: phosphorus normal at 3.9; bun elevated at 59; creatinine elevated at 3.6 -- CDN values, if I've done the calculations correctly: phosphorus 1.26, bun 19.28, creatinine 318.24 ... do the conversions look right?). The vet said to transition her to a low protein, renal support diet. As her phosphorus is okay, he didn't mention lower phosphorus (he might have been implying it by suggesting a "renal support" diet), but it sounds as if I should be avoiding higher phosphorus foods, too. I'm assuming that 7% - 10% is lower protein, which means that most of the wet Wellness and Nature's Variety meat versions are a-okay so that I can continue giving them to her, perhaps supplementing them with additional water (I should avoid the fish versions though, no?). We plan to recheck her in 3 months, unless problems develop sooner, and will consider subcutaneous fluids then if needed.

My question: I've read through this very useful thread but am sure I've missed something. Would some kind soul consider summarizing (a) what are the best wet foods with lower protein and low phosphorus, (b) what are acceptable dry foods to use, and (b) what are other treatment recommendations for early renal compromise elderly cats?

The summary would be great as a sticky!

Here's a great site for chemistry conversions: http://www.vin.com/scripts/labquest/converthtml.pl

You were almost all right your kitty's values look like this:
phos US 3.9 = 1.25 SI (CDN) units
BUN US 59 = 21.06 SI units
Creatinine US 3.6 = 318.24 SI units

What is your cat's Urine Specific Gravity (USG)?

Canned:

Kidney cats do not require low protein, but high quality protein low phos food. Removing too much protein from the cats diet makes it less palatable therefore they often refuse to eat, plus cats are carnivores they need meat protein to keep their bodies functions to the fullest.

Fish should be avoided when possible especially tuna, but fed on occasion 1-2 per month is still okay. Cats often become addicted to fish and will eat nothing else and tuna especially creates an imbalance in vit e levels.

When looking for a canned food look for quality ingredients, no fillers, actual meats ie chicken, turkey avoid anything that says "meat" meal cuz you don't know what the "meat" is, and low phos. Really read the ingredients in the food if there actual food listed in the first 6 ingredients and in the first 3 being specific meat or meal variety listed and there are not mostly chemicals it's a better quality food. Compare the ingredients in any can of Wellness to any can of the prescription foods which would you rather eat?

A listing of low phos canned can be found here however this list may not be up to date *formulas do change* and does not include Wellness Chicken 1.15% dm phos, Turkey 1.05% dm phos, Chicken & Beef 1.17% dm phos, Kitten 1.15% dm phos which are the lowest of the Wellness varieties, Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken @ 1.22% dm phos good for occasional meal, the other NV flavours are too high.

When looking at phos levels you want to convert to dry matter (meaning whats left if you remove all water) and find something as close to or lower than 1% phos dry matter.

Foods need to be compared using "dry matter amounts" instead of "as fed amounts" because there is so much difference in moisture content, therefore there is varying amounts of nutrients in different foods

This gives an explaination on how to convert to dm scroll down to "Converting dry matter basis"

It is always a good idea to add water to the canned food, this helps the cat get more fluids as healthy cats usually drink very little.

Dry food:

When you have an animal with compromised kidneys they should not be eating dry food. If absolutely necessary however there is a list here please note this list has not been updated since 2005.

Raw food:

Is far better than dry or canned for cats and dogs when it's done right, properly balanced, prepared and introduced.

Treatments:

Alot of that depends on how the cat is feeling and what the numbers are looking like. Some treatments that can be considered and must be discussed with your vet are:

species appropriate diet
adequate hydration
Subq fluids
phosphorus binders
calcitrol
anti-nausea meds
species appropriate vitamins
probiotics
ACE Inhibitors
essential fatty acids
immune boosters such as Transfer Factors
anti oxidants
GUNN IntraMuscular Stimulation (IMS) or acupuncture - two slightly different techniques
Classic Homeopathy Remedies - to be prescribed individually to suit your animal's needs

Other suggestions:
Discontinue all vaccines - any animal with compromised health should not be vaccinated this is also explicitly stated by the vaccine manufactures on the vaccine vials.

Raise the food and water dishes off the ground about 2-4 inches this will help keep the stomach acid in the stomach and reduce nausea while eating/drinking

Keep track of how much water you cat is drinking in a given number of days, this will aid your veterinarian in determining if/when subq's are necessary. IE: I have a water fountain for Duffy, the see-through resevoir holds 2 cups in addition to the bowl, so I make note of when the resevoir is filled and when the resevoir is empty then I know how many days it takes her to drink 2 cups of water.

Try to avoid stressful situations for the animal as much as possible.

You should have the full blood panel and urinalysis run every 3 months.

[gkjones]

Growler, thank you so much for the summary! So very helpful.

Molly's urine specific gravity is 1.021.

[krdahmer]

Thanks Growler! She is now eating Wellness, I just used the FF to get her to eat something... as soon as she showed interest I began offering other canned foods (better ones). And now she is eating a can of wellness a day!! (and very little dry dental food, she loves it so I leave it out for her) So that's 4 so far eating at least some wet food .

So are there any more Duffy pics???

[hazelrunpack]

Yes, Duffy pictures would be puurrrrrrfect!

[Mad Catter]

I am newly diagnosed with crf. I am 15 and mom had this idea in her head that I wouldn't start showing signs of aging until I was 21 (she had a friend in high school whose cat she remembers being 21 and still going strong. silly.). The thing is she had me when she was young and poor and so I haven't eaten the best! I did start a few months ago on grain free wellness and have started incorporating Nature's Valley organic raw chicken into my diet. She is kind of at my command, so during the incorporation of the raw food (which is still kind of going on), I would get her up in the middle of the night because I was hungry and she didn't like to leave raw just sitting out, so she would get up and feed me. This was not good on her already shoddy sleeping habits, so she read about the 'rotation' diet and bought me some kibble (evo) to leave out at night, so I could graze and let her sleep. But no more kibble now.

She has been up most of the night, with swollen, red eyes studying up on crf. At one point, she had taken in so much information, she couldn't figure out what was what! She hit a wall. Needless to say, she found herself here and finished off her night (early morning) reading through this entire thread! We have many questions and I want to make sure we are doing everything possible to stay as healthy as possible...another thing is: I will NOT let her give me sub-Q...I am a stubborn old bird and currently hold the world record for least likely to cooperate at the vet's office (no, really. check it out in guinness) and I barely let her pick me up (long story. i come from humble beginnings) (but I promise I am just as lovable!) (she doesn't know the difference anyway...)....so I was hoping to ask a few questions. And since I've read the thread, I'm pretty sure they won't be repeats (the 'summary' was a great idea!). My big question is for Growler and Duffy (surprise surprise). I am just curious what kind of raw food you guys are using (brand). I'm pretty sure you are on 100% raw and I am wondering if it is all one brand or do you make stuff at home too? And, in keeping with the 'summary' idea, how much do you feed/eat on any given day (I would LOVE to have a 'summary' of your daily eating schedule...I would even pay for it!) i.e.
Monday
morning = blah blah
afternoon = blah blah blah
evening = blah

(food and supplements included!)

I know we are all different, have different numbers, etc. and we certainly are not going to follow everything you do step by step, but we are definitely on the same page in terms of philosophies, etc.

I should tell you we haven't even gotten our numbers back yet. But, the preliminary results (urine extremely diluted) are not good. I did not eat much and did drink a lot before the exam and somewhere I have the smallest glimmer of hope, I would love for it to be just that...drank too much, urine like water, I know it is not that. I AM 15 and haven't eaten the best...so...we are just preparing...we find out details later this morning...

My mom wishes I could speak and express my feelings because of how I react at the vet, the idea of me having to stay a few nights with an IV...she is worried the sheer trauma of that alone might do me in...(I am really that bad gotta love me!)

Well, I've rambled on enough. Don't worry, I'll be back (probably sooner rather than later!)

Signed,
Mad Catter

[Chris21711]

Mad Catter - Growler will not be logged on until later tonight (working, same time zone as you) I have pm'd her asking that she follow up on this thread.

[chico2]

Mad Catter,you certainly are a smart kitty,tell mom though,even though you feel sickly,we'd love to see a pic.
and please be patient ,you'll get all the answers you need,not everyone is retired like me,some people like Growler,have to work

[Mad Catter]

I will keep checking back...still don't have my numbers, getting them tomorrow early evening. They are doing a urine culture because the diluted urine really might be a UTI, my kidney values are ok (again, I find out details tomorrow), but my T4 is high -- I definitely have hyperthyroidism and doc has already mentioned meds. This really threw me. I was expecting a much more dire call. However, I know hyperthyroidism can mask kidney values, so I haven't run into the street to celebrate. And now I must learn all I can about HT (is that the correct acronym?) and how it relates to kidney function, how HT meds impact kidney values and function, etc. Regardless, I am going to continue to treat her as if she has crf/arf, etc. because it is so common in older cats and it appears HT and crf are very closely related...I will most likely study up on HT tonight, though I am exhausted emotionally and thus, physically and might veg...or (had to get a smilie in there!)...

I uploaded a pic, but it doesn't appear on my posts, perhaps it just takes awhile. I made an album and it is there...

talk soon...


m.

[hazelrunpack]

Cool self portrait, MC!

growler often logs on quite late--she's a west coast girl, too--so she may yet arrive on the scene tonight! Hope you're feeling better soon! Let your mom give you a hug from hazel, please

[growler~GateKeeper]

Hi Mad Catter for you & mum & for the test results.

Duffy has been through HyperT a few years before her CRF diagnosis. I chose the Radioactive Iodine Therapy to cure the HyperT which does entail a full weeks stay in the special clinic. Chico2 who you met above has a HyperT cat Rocky who is on Tapazole meds for controlling the condition he does not have kidney issues.

Originally Posted by Mad Catter

during the incorporation of the raw food (which is still kind of going on), I would get her up in the middle of the night because I was hungry and she didn't like to leave raw just sitting out, so she would get up and feed me. This was not good on her already shoddy sleeping habits, so she read about the 'rotation' diet and bought me some kibble (evo) to leave out at night, so I could graze and let her sleep. But no more kibble now.

Raw food is purrfectly fine to leave out for several hours for munching when you are unable to feed fresh at all hours. Or if you are still not comfortable with that you could leave a portion of canned out over night. Wellness has some low phos varieties as mentioned in the summary above.

Originally Posted by Mad Catter

I am just curious what kind of raw food you guys are using (brand). I'm pretty sure you are on 100% raw and I am wondering if it is all one brand or do you make stuff at home too? And, in keeping with the 'summary' idea, how much do you feed/eat on any given day (I would LOVE to have a 'summary' of your daily eating schedule...I would even pay for it!) i.e.
Monday
morning = blah blah
afternoon = blah blah blah
evening = blah

(food and supplements included!)

Duffy has both a Homeopath Vet and a Homeopath that she sees everytime she goes to the vet so some suggestions are from one or both.

Yes I feed 100% ground raw, the brand I buy is a local North Vancouver, BC company called Natural Instincts with variety of Chicken, Turkey, Bison, Lamb, occasionally Rabbit (there are other meats Beef & Elk she's not fond of) and from another local North Vancouver, BC company called Club Canine the occasional salmon meal. On the days she eats chicken she gets a couple of rough cut up chunks of chicken neck in her dinner I buy them from another local North Vancouver company called 3P Naturals. I'm very fortunate to have a pet food store not too far away that the only food they sell is raw so they are very knowledgeable about the feeding it.

If I am cooking a chicken breast for myself I will save some raw chunks for Duffy to enjoy.

Duffy is eating roughly about 100g ground raw per day sometimes upto 125g especially if its Turkey her current fave. The Natural Instincts ground raw comes in a 250g chubb so I partially thaw & cut in half then store in Ziploc Single Serve freezer containers.

Breakfast (usually btwn 4:30-6am)

3 supplements are pilled right before she eats:
1 Vetri-Science NuCat Vitamin tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 Standard Process Feline Renal Support tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 Standard Process Feline Whole Body Support tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions

Food:
2 heaping Tsp (not the cooking measuring spoon but an actual teaspoon) ground raw food
1 PB8 Probiotic capsule opened & empty into the food mixed well as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
3 drops Aangamik Liquid DMG mixed in food as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 pump Grizzly Salmon Oil mixed in food as per her Homeopath's direction

Around 8am Duffy is usually looking for a little more food so I'll add 1 Tsp food no additional supplements, to whatever she has left in her dish from breakfast.

Between 9-10 am before leaving for work (depends on what day it is)
I put another 1-1.5 Tsp food no additional supplements in her dish mix it with anything left from earlier.

Almost always her dish is completely empty when I get home from work some meat she's not too crazy about like Lamb right now so she may leave some in the dish - that gets tossed & she gets a clean dish for dinner.

Dinner usually btwn 7-8 pm (depending on how late I work that day)

3 supplements are pilled right before she eats:
1 Vetri-Science NuCat Vitamin tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 Standard Process Feline Renal Support tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 Standard Process Feline Whole Body Support tablet as per her Homeopath Vets' directions

Food:
2 heaping Tsp (not the cooking measuring spoon but an actual teaspoon) ground raw food
1 PB8 Probiotic capsule opened & empty into the food mixed well as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
3 drops Aangamik Liquid DMG mixed in food as per her Homeopath Vets' directions
1 pump Grizzly Salmon Oil mixed in food as per her Homeopath's direction

Usually around 10-11pm Duffy might be looking for a little more food if not I usually try to get her to eat a little when I head for bed, I'll put out another Tsp.

I feed a different meat each day so she doesn't get the same two days in a row. Rabbit & Salmon are fed 1-2 per month as the phosphorus levels are higher. Bison is the only red meat she'll eat so she gets that 2-3 days/week. All the meals she gets have ground bone included except the Bison ans the lamb. All the meals have ground muscle meat, bone (exceptions noted above), liver, heart, Cod Liver Oil & Full Spectrum Vit E. The chicken meal includes free range egg yolk, the rabbit meal includes lungs and kidneys. The salmon she gets is just meat & bone actually its the Dog food variety because she doesn't like the extra veggies that are in the Cat Salmon meal.

All supplements should be discussed with your vet before beginning.

[growler~GateKeeper]

I should also mention Duffy is 12lbs and has always had a great appetite so getting her to eat has never been an issue. She is also currently on 150ml subq fluids every other day as per her Homeopath Vet's directions.

[Mad Catter]

so much for writing back with all that detailed info. I am going to print it out and use it as a reference...'Duffy's CRF Diet'



you should really have a blog you know...
not only for all the information you provide to so many people, but you also mention many products, so you could always link to them...(and in turn earn a profit!)

i'll keep you all posted tomorrow evening when i get my actual values from the doc...am definitely wanting to do the Radioactive Iodine Treatment for her HyperT..it will kill me to think of her all alone for at least a week (maybe less ), but i think it will be less stress on her in the long run (this is, of course, assuming she is a candidate..it sounds as though it is standard protocol to try meds first..?) we shall see.

one of the hardest parts of caring for an animal companion is that they don't understand english (or whatever language you speak) (imagine that)...like i can't just say 'i'll be back in a week, you stay positive and eat and drink well, the faster the radiation levels come down, the sooner you get to come home. we'll do something special when you come home...so you have that to look forward to...'

nope. can't do that. for that week, they think that is what the rest of their life is going to be like (or at least i imagine that is what they think).

ok. just wanted to pop in and say thanks for taking the time to post d's diet...

m.
p.s. my full name is madison alex (maddie), but i use mad catter for my online persona
(my mom's name is heather)

[chico2]

Mad Catter,my Rocky has been on Tapazole for,I think,more than a year now(I forget,since time is flying by)and is doing ok.
Rockys symptoms were,weightloss,although he ate like a fiend.
Pacing,being hyper,he has also lost muscle-mass in his back-legs,with some signs of arthritis.
Rocky is 13 yrs old,I do have other problems with him,not related to HT,I think.
He goes every 3 months for a blood-test,next one due in March.
The Iodine-treatment is just not doable right now,if ever:sad:
But we'll see how he is doing.
Since on meds,he's gained most of his weight back.
During his last bloodtest(taken in the neck)he was extremely traumatized,they had trouble finding a vein,so getting him in to a carrier in March,will be doubly difficult
The vet said though,because I was very upset,that the next will be taken in his leg.
Is Mad-Catter your only kitty??
I have 2 others,Vinnie and Chico
for good testresults for Madison Alex

[growler~GateKeeper]

Originally Posted by Mad Catter

i'll keep you all posted tomorrow evening when i get my actual values from the doc...am definitely wanting to do the Radioactive Iodine Treatment for her HyperT..it will kill me to think of her all alone for at least a week (maybe less ), but i think it will be less stress on her in the long run (this is, of course, assuming she is a candidate..it sounds as though it is standard protocol to try meds first..?) we shall see.

for the test results

As for the treatment for HyperT there are 4 options: Medication, Surgery, RaId, and Homeopathic Remedies. I wasn't seeing a Homeopath Vet at the time Duffy was diagnosed w/HyperT (2005) so I wasn't aware of that option. Duffy was never on any meds for it since she was caught early & in otherwise excellant health. It was my decision to go straight for the RaId though the cost is quite steep up front but when you compare it to a lifetime of testing & meds it is actually cheaper in the long run. Alot of cats are put on meds first in order to stabilize the Thyroid values then look at either surgery or RaId, however many are just treated w/meds and do great. There are not very many clinics that do the procedure since it is very specialized, the standard minimum stay is one week, some very sick kitties however do need to stay an extra week. If faced with the same situation I would either go for Homeopathic Remedies or RaId, my Homeopath Vet doesn't like the RaId treatment because it's obviously not a natural solution given that it releases radioactive iodine into the body to kill the abnormal cells, where as the remedies work to fix the cause of the imbalance. My previous Homeopath vet has a senior kitty with HyperT and she is being treated with a specific Homeopathic Remedy and she is doing great.

[chico2]

Growler,I've never heard of the Homeopathic treatment,but of course I never asked anyone.
When you have time,maybe you could PM me some more info,or a site that I can visit.
I often feel guilty for not going the Iodine route,the cost is not the only issue,it's mostly about Rocky and the kind of cat he is,the effect this procedure and after-care would have on an already troubled kitty like him.
Then I feel guilty about putting poison(pills) in him every day too

[Mad Catter]

everyone,

Thought I would post our numbers, which we received last night:

BUN 21
Creatinine 1.2
Phosphorus 5.2
USG 1.011 (still waiting on culture results for UTI, etc. - find out on Tuesday)
T4 9.9

So, on Thursday night, after much research, I was pretty convinced about the Radioactive Iodine treatment, and then I slowly started changing my mind...decided to give it a go with the meds, hoping to tweak out a small dosage to control the HyperT...We are started on 2.5 mg twice a day, we just had our first pill a bit ago and I'm watching her every move, hoping for few side effects

I can't remember exactly what changed my mind about the meds, it is early and I'm still trying to 'catch up' on all the sleep missed this past week

I am wondering if it is possible to find a dosage where we retain the 'good' of HT - blood flow through kidneys and get rid of the 'bad' - they probably go together of course; I will next spend some time researching the meds, what they do exactly, is it a naturally occurring substance in the body (probably not. that probably sounds naive. but let me have my moment of naivety!), if there are any long term studies on the effects, etc.

There is also the issue of the 'type' of cat she is too.

And I may just need to incorporate liver health into her long term diet, to help as much as possible with ickiness of meds...hopefully the liver diet and the kidney diet will be similar, because I am definitely going to treat her as if she has crf (and she may very well, we will see soon hopefully...).

And we can always change our mind. I am sure she will wise up to me trying to sneak a pill in twice a day. The doc also mentioned a pharmacy here that will make it into a liquid and you can pick pretty much any type of flavor you want...

That is all for now. I hope you all are well, I think of you and your furry loved ones throughout the day...

[chico2]

Madcatter,My Rocky is now on two 5mg pills/daily,we started off just like you.
It takes some adjusting and testing to get it right.
I think for food,if you feed them healthy,good quality food you take care of liver,kidney functions,the best you can.
My cats are all off the dry food totally now,which I feel really good about and they love the Wellness
You can clearly feel Rockys enlarge thyroid,it's almost 1 inch long:sad:

[Mad Catter]

I am worried maddie's thyroid(s) is larger than normal too...I can't see it, but I can 'see' her purring and I don't think I ever used too (but, then again, perhaps I am now 'looking' for things

I did ask the doc about the size and if could possibly block the airway and she said no...not sure if she meant no for me or no in general...maybe they grow 'out' away from the airway and not in...

Well, I thought I had given her her medicine last night, but this morning, there it was peering out from two pieces of pill pocket. I don't know how I missed it last night and it didn't look digested (like it came back up later), I was really tired, but I don't miss things like that. Well, evidently I do.

Anyway, I just gave it another try..this time I placed half the pill on her plate, ran a fork under water and began to make a bitter pill soup...I was surprised and just how little it was (certainly I can sneak this past her), added some wet food, just a bit to make sure she ate it ALL and she pretty much did I think..I added some more and mixed it some more and she ate that up too...there are always remnants of the food on the sides, but I am thinking positive that she ingested it all..

The only thing is, it was a new flavor of wet, so that could be the reason it was hidden well, time will tell...
I am definitely going to have to keep a steady supply of variety...the thing is I only feed wellness grain free...another thing to research...other grain free...well there is NV I think too...plus I feed raw and may even make something one of these days...!

[chico2]

If she likes raw(mine don't)I would go for that for sure..I can give them a couple of little chunks of raw beef,or chicken,but they only eat very little,Chico not at all.
As for the pill,for a long time now,I put a drop of water in his bowl and mash the pill with one tbsp of food and he'll lap it all up,whatever goes on the side of the dish,I scrape down,to make sure he gets all of the pill.
After that he gets the rest of the food,I have had no problems.
Apparently the Tapazole has a terrible taste.
When I gave Rocky antibiotics,it came in a small capsule,it was very easy just to drop it in his mouth.
I too was told the enlarged Thyroid does not hinder his breathing.

[growler~GateKeeper]

I have opened a new thread here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=60971 to continue the HyperT discussion, I would like to keep this one more on the CRF discussion


Mad Catter In regards to the BUN, Creatinine and Phos numbers those still all fall in normal range for healthy cats, the USG of course is much lower than it should be however that could be due to infection or the HyperT covering up CRF. I'll comment on the T4 in the other thread linked above Bear in mind that if HyperT is masking kidney failure it will show itself within 3 months of having the HyperT properly regulated, so she will need additional testing at that point.

[growler~GateKeeper]

Duffy had her recheck today, she's gained a little weight since October (I didn't weigh her at Novembers' appt) very unusual for any animal with CRF. In October she was 5.4kg and this morning's weight was 5.9kg (12.98lbs). She's up 1/2kg in 4 months, my vet was pleased/impressed she isn't dropping any weight, her appetite is great, her energy is good, her poops are good, her hydration is great. When he examed her he said everything looked good.

Test results back either Mon or Tues