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Old October 31st, 2004, 09:30 PM
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We need to educate people

I just wanted to pass on some of my thoughts as we are writing letters to the editor, and various media outlets. These are just my opinion.

I think we need to really educate people. I know we all feel like we're doing that, but I mean, when we are writing these letters, and talking to people, we need to tell them facts and numbers, not stories of our dogs. It's like a lawyer aruguing. They never ask a question (or make a statement), they don't know what the answer is going to be. It doesn't matter that my dog is the most gentle out of the five I've had. It doesn't matter that he's afraid of the neighbour's cat. The answer to that in an arugument is, "Well, your dog's fine, but the other thousand out there are killers!" I avoid telling people statements that start with "Well, my dog...", unless we are actually discussing, my dog. We need to point out the seven dog bites in the last two weeks that weren't reported, the fact that the aggression test shows at least 20 other dogs more aggressive than ours, including the collie and the ****er spaniel. That there have been no deaths caused by pitbulls in Ontario. To the average person on the street who has been fed crap by the media and Bryant, they don't care how my dog feels about a muzzle, or how nice my dog is. The think pitbull owners are mostly tatooed tough-guys who need an ego boost. My wife and I have no tatoos. She's a bank manager, I work in the financial industry as well, and am applying to the police force. We need to tell people that we are the typical owners, not the ones that you hear when pitbulls attack. And we need to get people to realize that most of the attacks are happening in the same types of areas. I know it isn't a Canadian thing, to make arguements about the social class of people, but let's be honest. There's a trend!! THAT'S what we need to look at. THAT'S why the BSL won't work. (I'm not suggesting that lower-income people breed vicious dogs, but it is a fact that that tends to be where you find most of the drug dealers, and violent crime). People are sick of hearing about "my dog". So let's give them something else--the facts. And let's put more pressure on media outlets to dig them up, as well. Can you imagine if we could get just one newspaper to actually study the facts and real statistics? Awesome!

"The more I learn about Liberals, the better I like pitbulls"
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Old October 31st, 2004, 09:38 PM
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Re: your motto "The more I learn about Liberals, the better I like pitbulls", I do not consider myself a "liberal per se" but what is wrong with liberals and why would you say such a thing?

The Liberals in Ontario -of this is what you are referencing - are not necessarily the same entity as the philosophical goal of liberalism. Your motto is somehwat threatening and I find it offensive, regardless of who I vote for. (I would not have voted for the Liberals in Ontario but their actions re pit bulls or the action of one cabinet Minister hardly calls for the kind of motto you have). There are lobbies across North America in all shades of political perspectives advocating this.

It means that any group seeking to keep pit bulls alive essentially (because they have been designated by the media and others as le bete noir) really must work to educate and work with all political parties.

As I often have to tell my American friends and collegaues liberal and Liberal are too very different entiries.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 09:44 PM
SquirrelyPitbul SquirrelyPitbul is offline
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I understand what you are saying however, I only know my dog. I do not have facts and statistics. I know that I have owned many dogs of all breeds and this is my first pitbull and she is sweet, adorable, loving and gentle. I can only tell people my personal experience with "my dog". I am doing something by giving a first hand account about my experience with a Pitbull. My dogs are not a fact or a statictic they are a member of my family each with thier unique personalities. So, please forgive me as I am one of those people that posted about my dog however, it is all I know. I do understand your position however, I am confident that the facts and statistics will show that these dogs are not dangerous...but it hasn't seemed to matter thus far.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 10:12 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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I personally think that's very offensive.

I do recall the very big case where Diane Whipple (San Fran) was mauled to death by two Presa/Mastiff crosses - the defendants with the dogs were in fact 2 lawyers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwinn
We need to tell people that we are the typical owners, not the ones that you hear when pitbulls attack. And we need to get people to realize that most of the attacks are happening in the same types of areas. I know it isn't a Canadian thing, to make arguements about the social class of people, but let's be honest. There's a trend!! THAT'S what we need to look at.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 10:18 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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I hate to say it and maybe offend anyone but Schwinn is dead on the money here. As far as Bryant is concerned, for every good dog story there is at least one victim of a "pit bull attack". While speaking (or writing) from the heart is what most of us do best, when addressing law makers your best bet is to shove cold hard facts in front of them.

So here are some links so that you can get some of those facts:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/index.cfm

http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

http://www.dogwatch.net/files/mpp_pa...s_portrait.pdf

http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petb...breedbans.html

http://www.safety-council.org/cgi-bin/htsearch

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....erous_dogs.pdf

http://www.animalbehaviorassociates....s_behavior.pdf

http://ncrf2004.tripod.com/index.html

http://www.pbrc.net/breedspecific.html

If any of these links don't work, let me know. What more? I have plenty more where those came from!
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Old October 31st, 2004, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LL1
I personally think that's very offensive.

I do recall the very big case where Diane Whipple (San Fran) was mauled to death by two Presa/Mastiff crosses - the defendants with the dogs were in fact 2 lawyers.
Dogs that were given to them by a prisoner client who ran, from prison, a kennel which specialized in breeding dogs with very bad temperments to be used as the "perfect protection" dog. Hardly what I would consider your "average" dog owners.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 10:53 PM
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First off, I wasn't trying to be offensive, nor was I pointing fingers at any one in here. I apologise to anyone who felt I was referring to previous posts. This is absolutely the forum to discuss your own dogs, as I have done on many occasions. Please don't think that my post was a comment on what has been said in here. I was actually trying to strategize a way to fight against the BSL in the public eye, in newspapers, and with those in the media. I was giving my opinion on how to effectively argue against banning the breed with those who support it, something I should have also said. Too often I've read and heard those who support it argue that of course people are going to say thier dog is fine, and then usually follow it up with, "because it hasn't snapped yet". We need to effectivly argue in ways that make people think, not dismiss us.

SquirrelyPitbul:I wasn't referring to what you posted, and apologize it came across that way. It wasn't meant as an accusation towards anyone, just a suggestion that way try a different strategy in arguing in the newspapers and the media. My bad!

LL1:I'm sorry you found what I said offensive, but it is a fact, if you look at the attacks that have taken place in the previous months, the majority of them have revolved around certain socio-economic areas of town. I don't say this as a prejudice, but as a person who has a degree in sociology and has studied trends. Again, this wasn't an accusation, but a point I was trying to make. The majority of owners are middle-class people who live in average neighbourhoods. That's not where the majority of attacks are happening though. Why? I don't know. I'm only saying that obviously there is something more than just a dog that snaps and attacks people. That's not to say that someone who lives in a "bad" neighbourhood who has a pitbull, it will attack. Nor am I saying that someone who has an SUV and 2.3 kids will never have thier dog attack. I have friends who are cops, and the ones who I've talked to tell me that the majority of the dogs that they've had a problem with belonged to drug dealers. Again, I'm not saying that's the case with all attacks, I'm just saying this is something worth looking at. If we're going to solve the problem of attacks, we need to look at all angles. Something's going on, folks, and if we're too afriad to ask ALL the questions, I'm afraid that the problems will continue.

And Cyberkitten:It was meant as a tongue in cheek poke at the Ontario Liberals. If you look through the threads in this forum, you'll see there's a common them. And I'm sure most of the owners of our "dangerous breed" will see where I'm coming from, and the humour in it (or at least, the intended humour).

Again, it wasn't meant to offend anyone, only to raise some points and to try and give my opinion on where to focus our efforts in the fight on the outside!
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Old October 31st, 2004, 11:25 PM
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I do not believe that it is a fact, it is your opinion.

The attack by the GSD was in a middle class neighbourhood with a middle class family.

My friend in a middle class area just this week had her dog placed in quarantine for a bite of a child.

The attack in Scarborough was on a middle class street by a middle class lady who had a middle class home and paid the neighbour keep to keep her property nice. She is the neighbour of the family I placed one of my dogs with. She had done everything right, the dogs were altered, and licensed and vaccinated, and she should have had a lock on her gate and not allowed the teen access without her there but I wouldn't call her a bad owner. I haven't seen the homes of the other people who owned dogs involved in recent attacks? Have you?

I recall one in Etobicoke and it was on a really nice street, I placed one of my dogs there the same week the papers were on about the raging dog.

I get calls all the time from people in nice neighbourhoods wanting me to take in their dogs who have bitten children and adults.

The insinuation that income has to do with what type of person someone is and what type of pet owner they are will only alienate people, and many will in fact dismiss the rest of your argument based on that type of a statement

Most of the hands on activists that I know - be it OCAP, PETA, Billc15b etc - are not middle class and many live in lower rent communities in the city - and are totally against BSL. Many people who post here no doubt are in rental situations in less than posh areas and living paycheque to paycheque and are wonderful "owners". I can only assume they as well as the activists I know would be incredibly offended by the opinion you are saying is fact. I wouldn't alienate and lose the support of such a large group if I were you.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwinn
We need to effectivly argue in ways that make people think, not dismiss us.

LL1:I'm sorry you found what I said offensive, but it is a fact, if you look at the attacks that have taken place in the previous months, the majority of them have revolved around certain socio-economic areas of town. I don't say this as a prejudice, but as a person who has a degree in sociology and has studied trends. Again, this wasn't an accusation, but a point I was trying to make. The majority of owners are middle-class people who live in average neighbourhoods. That's not where the majority of attacks are happening though.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LL1
I do not believe that it is a fact, it is your opinion.

The attack by the GSD was in a middle class neighbourhood with a middle class family.

My friend in a middle class area just this week had her dog placed in quarantine for a bite of a child.

The attack in Scarborough was on a middle class street by a middle class lady who had a middle class home and paid the neighbour keep to keep her property nice. She is the neighbour of the family I placed one of my dogs with. She had done everything right, the dogs were altered, and licensed and vaccinated, and she should have had a lock on her gate and not allowed the teen access without her there but I wouldn't call her a bad owner. I haven't seen the homes of the other people who owned dogs involved in recent attacks? Have you?

I recall one in Etobicoke and it was on a really nice street, I placed one of my dogs there the same week the papers were on about the raging dog.

I get calls all the time from people in nice neighbourhoods wanting me to take in their dogs who have bitten children and adults.

The insinuation that income has to do with what type of person someone is and what type of pet owner they are will only alienate people, and many will in fact dismiss the rest of your argument based on that type of a statement

Most of the hands on activists that I know - be it OCAP, PETA, Billc15b etc - are not middle class and many live in lower rent communities in the city - and are totally against BSL. Many people who post here no doubt are in rental situations in less than posh areas and living paycheque to paycheque and are wonderful "owners". I can only assume they as well as the activists I know would be incredibly offended by the opinion you are saying is fact. I wouldn't alienate and lose the support of such a large group if I were you.
Again, if you read what I was saying, I'm not saying that you need a great deal of money to be a good owner. I'm not saying you need any money to be a good owner. I'm merely pointing out that the majority of the attacks by PTIBULLS in the past few months have happened in less influential neighbourhoods. That is a fact. The attacks that happened in Chatham (where I grew up), were also in less influential neighbourhoods. I should know, I grew up in them, hung out in them. I remember one neighbourhood I lived in, listening to gunshots in the middle of the night (I lived in Windsor at the time). It wasn't that long ago that I was living pay cheque to pay cheque, and I don't consider myself a bad owner. But, there was definitely a different type of person who owned pitbulls in those neighbourhoods than the owners I know in the neighbourhoods now. I'm sorry you're having a hard time grasping what I'm saying. Maybe I can illustrate with another arguement. It's like looking at the problem with drugs. Drug dealers tend to hang out in less influential neighbourhoods, not middle class and upper middle class. Does this mean you won't find them there? No. Does this mean that people who live in lower class neighbourhoods are drug dealers? No. It means one thing, and one thing only--there is a pattern that needs to be questioned. Maybe is coincidental. That is certainly possible. I'm only mentioning my observation as someone who grew up and lived in those areas, and from my knowledge of the recent attacks, and what my friends on the force have told me. And no, I haven't seen the homes, but yes, I have seen the areas. And I'm not talking about dog bites in general. I'm talking about pitbulls, and the recent attacks. If we're going to figure out why they are happening, then we better look at everything. And as far as offend people who are "in rental situations in less that posh areas", that describes a great deal of those I work with, and they haven't been offended yet. Some even agree.
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Old October 31st, 2004, 11:55 PM
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Sorry, one more quick point. As I said, my wife gets many stares from people when she mentions we have a pitbull. I think she's lost track of how many times that people have said to her, "You don't look like someone who has a pitbull!". Part of the problem is that people have this pre-conceived notion that pitbull owners are men with fragile egos who like to look scary and walk with a scary dog. The majority of owners aren't what the public thinks they are. And we need to show that it is, as the president of the OSPCA said, a "certain sub-set of owners". We need to show that those owners are, in fact, a sub-set, and not the average owner. But not by saying, "well, they're lower income, that's the problem". But by looking at these individual owners themselves (the ones who's dogs have attacked), and finding the issue. I don't think it's thier income that makes them bad owners (I know when we were struggling when I was younger, our dog was loved by everyone).
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:06 AM
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I read every word you posted. I am not having trouble understanding any of it. I disagree with it. What you feel is fact I feel is your opinion.

Can you post the areas or maybe intersections of the homes where people lived with the Pitbulls that attacked recently? Were the homes in less than influential areas or were the attacks in less than influenial areas? Big difference, if you are in Toronto you can in a 5 minute walk go from High Park to Parkdale. Pretty hard to determine neighbourhoods and what you mean by that, and which one you mean. My brother is in Scarborough which some people might call less than influential, and that would be very wrong. Like anywhere some parts are, some aren't. Scarboruigh, Toronto, Aurora, you name it, I know people in teeny places and I know people in homes that are 5000 square feet and very schmancy. It would help if you have examples to illustrate that, and make it a fact and not an opinion.

Your other argument doesn't do it for me either. Do you mean drug dealers hang out in, or live in less influential neighbourhoods? Big difference again. If the client base is in seedier areas - such they'd go by. Most pot grow ups are in fact in very nice neighbourhoods, and most cocaine comes from very nice neighbourhoods in Woodbridge. Do I think police presence/harrassment is increased in less than influential areas therefore more arrests? Yes I do. Do I think that means more dealers live in those neighbourhoods? No. All opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwinn
I'm merely pointing out that the majority of the attacks by PTIBULLS in the past few months have happened in less influential neighbourhoods. That is a fact.



Maybe I can illustrate with another arguement. It's like looking at the problem with drugs. Drug dealers tend to hang out in less influential neighbourhoods, not middle class and upper middle class. Does this mean you won't find them there? No. Does this mean that people who live in lower class neighbourhoods are drug dealers? No. It means one thing, and one thing only--there is a pattern that needs to be questioned. Maybe is coincidental. That is certainly possible. I'm only mentioning my observation as someone who grew up and lived in those areas, and from my knowledge of the recent attacks, and what my friends on the force have told me. And no, I haven't seen the homes, but yes, I have seen the areas.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:19 AM
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real facts?

I agree with Schwinn we do need to give statistics and numbers people respond to that and cannot argue with numbers(well I guess it depends where you get them LOL) anyway I was thinking... You know the most recent attack on the man walking his friends 2 pits(the one who started all this BSL crap!!) anyway He happens to be known to the police(aka drug dealer) and I have heard from a friend of a friend ( I know that sounds dumb but its true ) that he had trained his dogs to kill BECAUSE people were trying to kill him, and on that fateful night when his friend was walking the dogs he apparently had one of the dogs in a head lock and the other dog attacket. ANYWAY as I was saying about thinking lol maybe if we somehow found this guy who owned the dogs and got him to tell what REALLY happend about the training and stuff possibly it might look good on NORMAL peoples behalf and show that it is the people who train there dogs in such foolish ways that are the problem, and possibley find someone who can look into ALL the other cases or at least most recent and find out the REAL story behind the attack?!?!? Humm just a thoght I dont nkow how plosibul it is. sorry about the spelling its late and im on a sugar rush happy halloween
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:28 AM
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No, unfortunately, I can not recall the exact addresses or intersections. The point I'm trying to make is the pattern that has been noticed by myself and others. The people who own the pitbulls that attack. And again, I do not point this out as an accusation, but rather an observation meant to delve further into the issue than the mind-set that says all pitbulls must be banned. It doesn't do us any good to merely say, "Our dogs are wonderful dogs". I'm sorry, but as much as I feel the majority of pitbulls make the most wonderful pets, if we don't realize there is a problem, then we have our heads in the sand. There IS a problem, and we need to figure it out if we are going to win this thing. How do we do that? By picking out patterns. These attacks, the majority of them, are happening in certain centres. Why? They aren't happening in Hyde Park, they aren't happening in Yorkville. Is it because there aren't pitbulls there? I don't think so. So why? Is it because pitbull owners who rent are less responsible? That's a pretty silly arguement, actually. So what is the common thread?
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Old November 1st, 2004, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babyrocky1
You know the most recent attack on the man walking his friends 2 pits(the one who started all this BSL crap!!) anyway He happens to be known to the police(aka drug dealer) and I have heard from a friend of a friend ( I know that sounds dumb but its true ) that he had trained his dogs to kill BECAUSE people were trying to kill him, and on that fateful night when his friend was walking the dogs he apparently had one of the dogs in a head lock and the other dog attacket. ANYWAY as I was saying about thinking lol maybe if we somehow found this guy who owned the dogs and got him to tell what REALLY happend about the training and stuff possibly it might look good on NORMAL peoples behalf and show that it is the people who train there dogs in such foolish ways that are the problem, and possibley find someone who can look into ALL the other cases or at least most recent and find out the REAL story behind the attack?!?!? Humm just a thoght I dont nkow how plosibul it is. sorry about the spelling its late and im on a sugar rush happy halloween
First of all, this is what my point orginally was. The sources that I talked with on the police force have told me similar things about the other attacks. This is the stuff that we need to look at, and get out in the open.

Secondly, unfortunatly, while what you say has merrit, that if the stuff were known, it would definitly go a long way to helping our cause, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who's dog attacked to admit that he was making it mean on purpose. And some of the neighbours of that particular owner, according to a brief media report I read at the time, confirmed what you said. Unfortunatly, everyone has been too busy pointing out what the dogs did, not why.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 09:52 AM
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Thank you Schwin, I an new to this forum and I just wanted somewhere to let people know about my experiences with my dog. Having read your response, and others I agree with you. I guess my personal experience is not going to sway a decision on whether this breed should be banned. I have made a decision to be more involved with this issue so, I am going to educate myself with facts and statistics as I guess when fighting the ban that is all that matters. I did not take offense to your post, nor did I take it personally. I am only hear to educate myself and you have opened my eyes to the fact that if I am going to be truly helpful in my quest I do need to become informed. I also agree with you about letting people know about the fct that not all of us are criminals, thugs etc... I am sorry to say but I live in the lower mainland..the place they call the Grow Capital of Canada and where I live these dogs are trained and used to portect grow houses. When the grow houses are busted by law enforcement the dogs are taken to the local shelter where they have a hard time placing them. So, I do need to become informed if I am going to help the tragedy that is taking place with these animals. So I thank you for helping me to want to get informed.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 10:32 AM
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No problem, and I applaud anyone who is fighting against this crap. When I posted this, I only meant that we have to keep in mind, when we write letters to the editor, we have one shot to make out point. We aren't in a forum such as this, where we can debate and discuss. Therefore, under those circumstances, it is imparative for us to try to avoid using arguements that can be easily rebuked, as we don't have the opportunity to answer them. It was just a thought I had, going forward. And I had brought up what I thought were points to consider. I personally feel, that as a group, pitbull owners are the most educated of any other breed, simply because of the stigma and bad rep. For example, I was against a pitbull until we got one. I think I've read almost as much about pitbulls as I have about any course I took in school (I was definitely more sober reading about pitbulls). I think we need to utilize that knowledge, and band together in that fight. It's to the point now that I don't think we'll get another pit, because we are just tired of defending our dog, which I think is a shame. She's probably the best dog I've ever had, and I can't imagine life without her. And I don't think I'm unique in that feeling.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 10:41 AM
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Ok I think everyone needs to not take things so personally. Schwinn has a point. Yes it happens all over the place. Middleclass lower class. I live in Melvern, we make middleclass salaries but I do see a problem with not lower class particularly but I would say that these dogs are often acquired by peoples into criminal activity. My neighborhood is a great neighbor hood and is safe but we do have questionable neighbors. We also have alot of pit bulls. There are 3 total including mine on my floor alone. I have seen known drug dealers and gang members with there pit bulls. Some are loving to there pits some arent. I don't know if it is related to their criminal activity but they are more likely to use there pit bulls for protection. You cannot dispute that. Not all have them for protection some have for a status symbol. Some are great with there dogs and have them purely for companionship. But again you can't dispute the fact that these dogs don't have the most responsible owner.
I think instead of saying that its a lower class problem its more of a criminal problem. Ofcourse non criminals can be irresponsible too but its more likely that you will find irresponsible owners among criminals. That is why cops will tell you the most dangerous dog is one protecting criminal activities.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmypit
Ok I think everyone needs to not take things so personally. Schwinn has a point. Yes it happens all over the place. Middleclass lower class. I live in Melvern, we make middleclass salaries but I do see a problem with not lower class particularly but I would say that these dogs are often acquired by peoples into criminal activity. My neighborhood is a great neighbor hood and is safe but we do have questionable neighbors. We also have alot of pit bulls. There are 3 total including mine on my floor alone. I have seen known drug dealers and gang members with there pit bulls. Some are loving to there pits some arent. I don't know if it is related to their criminal activity but they are more likely to use there pit bulls for protection. You cannot dispute that. Not all have them for protection some have for a status symbol. Some are great with there dogs and have them purely for companionship. But again you can't dispute the fact that these dogs don't have the most responsible owner.
I think instead of saying that its a lower class problem its more of a criminal problem. Ofcourse non criminals can be irresponsible too but its more likely that you will find irresponsible owners among criminals. That is why cops will tell you the most dangerous dog is one protecting criminal activities.
I think you may have said more elequently than I. I wasn't trying to suggest it was an issue of social class, just that there is a pattern of the attacks and the owners. It goes beyond "repsonsible ownership". An irresponsible owner does not properly discipline thier dog. By going beyond that, I mean that they don't just lack the discipline, but are encouraged to have poor behaviour. That is something that is "unique" to a lot of the owners of the dogs who have attacked people.
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Old November 1st, 2004, 09:39 PM
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seeker seeker is offline
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Fighting amongst yourselves will solve nothing . When a comment is made that you don't like or find offensive please speak you mind but
PLEASE remember we are fighting for a common goal here .
Schwinn I agree wholeheartedly that we need to get the cause of these attacks out in the open . But I do not think it is a much of an area problem as it is a people problem and reading your posts I think that is basically what you said . It is just that there may or may not be more of these problem people concentrating themselves in certain areas . The police should know this more than anyone so I wonder what motivated Fantino to give his nod of approval to this legislation . He more than anyone should know it will do nothing to protect his men from the other dogs that will be trained in place of the pits . I am sure the officers themselves know it .
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Old November 2nd, 2004, 10:03 AM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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Being someone who is trying to make the career switch to police, I do think I understand where he is coming from. I don't agree, but I understand. As a police officer, you tend to see the worst parts of society, people and dogs alike. After speaking with some cops, a lot of them, thier only exposure to the dog is when they go to a house where there is something illegal going on, and the dog is trained to attack anyone who comes in. I think what he is looking at is eliminating one of the threats to an officer. I'm only hypothesizing, and I disagree with him as well.

And yes, again, I wasn't insinuating that it was an area issue, more a people issue. I think I'm beating this to death, so rather than try to explain my point, let's leave it at that and move on...
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Old November 2nd, 2004, 11:06 AM
Sheriffmom Sheriffmom is offline
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Working closely with the Police (our ambulance station, is also a satalite office for the police) I have on numerous occassions got to talking about the ban.... I am sad to say that numerous (although not the majority) were for the ban. (A few I have been able to sway, after showing them video, stats, and recommendations from other associations.) Most of the ones for the ban, say they have either been attacked, or been close to being attacked, or know of officers that have been attacked... and I quote from at least 5 officers "while responding to a call at a crack house".
The problem a lot of the cops are having is distinguishing between the crack house/junkyard dog that they see on a regular basis... who they would love to see extinct, as it would make their job safer!.... and the normal everyday family who has a dog, Pit or other wise.
Along with seeing the worst of hummanity most of the time, they see the worst of what humans can turn a dog into.
I've got a few to sign the petition.... I'll keep trying on the others!!
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