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Old May 13th, 2014, 10:19 AM
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SuperWanda SuperWanda is offline
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Gas/bloat question

Hi - we took our 13.5 year old husky (Timber) in to the emergency vet last night. She seemed very uncomfortable and was drinking more water than usual. She did vomit (mainly water with a few food pieces) a few times, but for the most part she seemed uncomfortable and would continue to go outside. It looked like she was trying to vomit but nothing was coming out. Because I was worried she may have a lot of gas we took her in and they did an x-ray. She had a good amount of gas in her tummy (which was empty) but no torsion. They tried to give her some anti-gas medication but threw that up so they kept her overnight. This morning they said she looked good and want to try some water and canned food (although I doubt she will eat it) and see if she can hold that down before sending her home.

She has become a very picky eater and I typically home cook for my two dogs but she seems to get itchy on poultry so I recently tried some raw patties from Carnivora (rabbit, bison, green tripe and small amounts of beef offal) She seemed to be doing fairly well on that (no itchy problems and good digestion) but last night I gave her a cooked beef stew with carrot, celery and barley. I wonder if the barley gave her the gas and she shouldn't have grains at all? I also gave her a salmon oil capsule.

They will keep her there this morning. If she continues to have trouble (not keeping water or food down) they could give her some barium and look at the large intestine more closely. No sign of blockage but large intestine was very full. Small intestine, not so much. They could also do blood work but she had a full panel done mid-march. Everything looked good for her age. Her urea was very slightly elevated and she had a urine test (specific gravity) done just this past weekend. It was slightly lower than normal but nothing to worry about. Her liver enzymes are slightly elevated but again, very normal for her age and not at a level hat would indicate liver or kidney disease.

Is it better in these cases to stick with grain free foods? Is raw okay? I am new to raw feeding but the reason I started is that she seems to not enjoy my cooked food as much anymore. If I did give her rare beef, she liked that the most so I decided to try the raw patties.
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Old May 13th, 2014, 06:53 PM
Lynne&Co. Lynne&Co. is offline
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Sorry to hear Timber has been unwell. Sounds like the vet is taking good care of the immediate medical issue. With regards to feeding raw, in my experience, vets tend to have a negative attitude and try to persuade pet owners towards commercial food. I feed raw to both my dogs and have had good results. My 11 year old weim had chronic diarrhea for a year before I finally switched to raw and have never looked back. His teeth are clean, okay breath for an old guy and his coat is shiny even during the winter. Lots of commercially prepared raw suppliers out there now too so you don't have to do it all yourself
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Old May 14th, 2014, 02:29 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I hope that this is just a bump in the road, sounds like she was in that bloat/pre-bloat stage, which is pretty scary! Gut infections can also do that and cause blockage.

Is she home now??? If those liver enzymes increase, I would worry first about the anaplasmosis before kidney issues

Definitely would ditch the barley/grains. IF things are not moving through her system, I would also not feed raw, since that allows the food to sit in the digestive tract and creates an environment where the bacteria can grow. I suspect that she would do better with the raw than the grains though, may have to give it a try.

I hope that she is home and feeling better!
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Old May 14th, 2014, 10:28 AM
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SuperWanda SuperWanda is offline
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Thanks for both of your replies.

She is home now, wouldn't eat anything at the vet so I picked her up at noon. She was very tired and slept until 5pm. I gave her some cooked ground lamb with fat strained and squash. That seemed to sit well so she had some more at 8pm. Seems back to normal this morning. Has pooped and is peeing normally.

MaxaLisa, I thought that raw or fresh cooked goes through the digestive system faster? Maybe I have that wrong. The one thing I do notice with the raw patties is the very small, hard poops which seem abnormal to me. The last thing I want to do is constipate her so if I continue down that road I will always add veggies like squash, green beans, leafy greens to give some fiber but I don't know if that is as good as the insoluble fiber found in grains although I will stop that just in case it promotes the gas. She generally hasn't had many tummy issues in the past so this surprised me.

She was tested for tick disease and all is negative so that is good.
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Old May 15th, 2014, 01:39 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Bleh, typed out my reply and had accidentally turned off my wifi!

Raw, mostly because of the bone, can be constipating, depending on the dog. My girl here has motility issues that were very pronounced when I was feeding the commercial raw patties. Now she just gets homecooked meat with veggies, with some extra soluble fiber. If raw stays in the gut, bacteria can multiply and back up into the bile ducts. I'm guessing it can also produce extra gas. I know that many pancreatitis dogs cannot tolerate raw. So, like you are doing, you just have to figure out what works best for her. I think grains are a huge culprit.

I've been using more raw goat's milk here, and canned Tripett, to get my girl eating regularly.

Glad though that she seems back to normal and that you're figuring out what works best for her. Great on the clear tick test!
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Old June 9th, 2014, 05:28 PM
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SuperWanda SuperWanda is offline
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Thanks for your input! I am back to cooking for both dogs as something turned her off of the raw. It was strange because she didn't seem to want any cooked food for some time. Do you think the raw green tripe is okay? I still give both dogs the raw tripe patties which is essentially frozen grass. I can't really detect any stomach lining which is kind of strange because I thought that green tripe was the stomach lining and the contents. They seem to love it even though it smells like sour barnyard

We are all doing pretty good right now. Our older one is still very weak in the hind end but we continue on despite my continued worry.

Hope all is well with you and Jazz!
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Old June 9th, 2014, 07:27 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda View Post
Thanks for both of your replies.

She is home now, wouldn't eat anything at the vet so I picked her up at noon. She was very tired and slept until 5pm. I gave her some cooked ground lamb with fat strained and squash. That seemed to sit well so she had some more at 8pm. Seems back to normal this morning. Has pooped and is peeing normally.

MaxaLisa, I thought that raw or fresh cooked goes through the digestive system faster? Maybe I have that wrong. The one thing I do notice with the raw patties is the very small, hard poops which seem abnormal to me. The last thing I want to do is constipate her so if I continue down that road I will always add veggies like squash, green beans, leafy greens to give some fiber but I don't know if that is as good as the insoluble fiber found in grains although I will stop that just in case it promotes the gas. She generally hasn't had many tummy issues in the past so this surprised me.

She was tested for tick disease and all is negative so that is good.
You should feed her small meals I had a Standard Poodle and they're known to get bloat so I was told to feed my 3 small meal a day. .I hope she will get better soon. It's so hard seeing a pet getting old and sick.
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Old June 13th, 2014, 08:22 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I fed Jazz some pre-made raw when she was younger, and she just stopped eating it. She won't be up to raw for some time, so I am home-cooking now. Funny how they change. I find that she eats a lot better if I but some warm water in there to help bring out the smells, so maybe that has something to do with it. Oh, and a bit of salt. I generally feed a very low sodium diet, so there is enough room to use some salt.

I was giving canned Trippet (sp?) for awhile to help her eat, never tried the real stuff. I hear that if it smells really bad, then it's the real stuff! I hope yours are stilll doing well on it!

I'm glad that things are still going fairly well. I know what you mean about the ongoing worry. I had that with my seniors. If things gets bad enough there, or there is any type of crisis, don't forget to try doxy, just for the heck of trying doxy. It helps almost everything. I had my girl on it for her last 6 months or so, because she had paw knuckling, and weird issues. It also helps weird forms of arthritis. I was just talking to a a K9 Dermatologist the other day about what a miracle drug it is.

But overall, it sounds like things are holding their own, and we gotta be thankful for that! There's a slim chance that we might have turned a corner with Jazz's IBD, I don't want to jinx anything though! We'll just keep crossing our fingers for all of them
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Old July 8th, 2014, 02:46 PM
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SuperWanda SuperWanda is offline
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Thanks Barkingdog and MaxaLisa,

I already give two meals a day and have tried 3 in the past but difficult at this age. I find it very hard to get them to eat in the morning now as they tend to have a major sleep in most days.

unfortunately, Timber had major tummy issues last night until 3am. She was throwing up mainly mucous with a little food and was excessively thirsty again. I tried giving ice chips instead of water. No issues with bloat this time but I just wish I knew what was causing these bouts to come on. She does get really itchy and red on her tummy so I wonder if it was an allergic reaction. I still give certain foods I am not sure if she is allergic to like beef and sweet potato. I already don't give poultry and there are other things I get suspicious about. I purchased a whole bucket of vetri-science vitamins so wondered if it was that or perhaps it is the green tripe? Hard to know. Perhaps she just got a bug or something but because she is an older dog, I always think the worst. Seems okay now, just tired so will try a little squash and bison meat which I know isn't an issue for her. I can get elk, bison and lamb so maybe should stay away from beef and poultry. Can a dog even be allergic to sweet potato? It's one of my suspect foods. I always find myself wanted to add so much variety in their diets but maybe it's too much.

I'm glad your Jazz is feeling better with regards to her IBD. That must be hard to deal with. Shiloh used to get bouts of colitis and I don't think I ever figured out what caused it.

I have to admit that I am a little worn out with my senior dog care giving. I am a person who worries a lot and I find myself constantly worried about the future, feel sad about what used to be. I am at home and I try to be here as much as I can for them. I do wish to get away on a holiday but just can't think of a way I am comfortable leaving these two. Can't really take them any where since it is too hot and Shiloh has trouble going in the car with her weak back. I also don't want to burden anyone since Shiloh tends to wake up in the night and I worry they might get sick when I'm away. I know I should do things for myself but it just gets harder and harder. I don't know a lot of other people in our friend/family circle who make their pets a priority like I do so I feel a little overwhelmed. I'm probably putting too much pressure on myself to be a perfect dog mom
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Old July 8th, 2014, 03:14 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I think that you are pretty much the perfect dog mom There are some of us certifiable crazy dog ladies out there who do turn everything upside down for them.

Having been through the senior dog thing not that long ago, I really understand what you mean. Max was very ill for the last year, and for a handful of reasons, couldn't be left alone much his last 8 months. I was very fortunate that they let me bend the rules and bring him to work with me. I would arrange shopping early in the morning or late in the evening so that he could wait in the car. Summer was very very difficult. His last summer though, I was able to rent a house by the coast, and he and I hung out. It was bittersweet.

The constant caregiving and the worry is such a stress - we sometimes put so much responsibiity on ourselves that it is just not fair to us, though we do it anyway. Max had reached a point where he was having trouble dealing with the meds and all of his protocol, and I physically wasn't able to do more, so I had to back off. I knew what that probably meant, but we didn't have much choice. He had a few good months, before his major decline, and he had to leave. You have to follow your instinct, and also be kind to yourself.

It's a balance, and right now it's *really* hard to find the right balance. There is no right or wrong here, but you do have to take care of yourself in the process
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Old July 8th, 2014, 03:28 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda View Post
......
unfortunately, Timber had major tummy issues last night until 3am. She was throwing up mainly mucous with a little food and was excessively thirsty again. I tried giving ice chips instead of water. No issues with bloat this time but I just wish I knew what was causing these bouts to come on. She does get really itchy and red on her tummy so I wonder if it was an allergic reaction. I still give certain foods I am not sure if she is allergic to like beef and sweet potato. I already don't give poultry and there are other things I get suspicious about. I purchased a whole bucket of vetri-science vitamins so wondered if it was that or perhaps it is the green tripe? Hard to know. Perhaps she just got a bug or something but because she is an older dog, I always think the worst. Seems okay now, just tired so will try a little squash and bison meat which I know isn't an issue for her. I can get elk, bison and lamb so maybe should stay away from beef and poultry. Can a dog even be allergic to sweet potato? It's one of my suspect foods. I always find myself wanted to add so much variety in their diets but maybe it's too much.

I'm glad your Jazz is feeling better with regards to her IBD. That must be hard to deal with. Shiloh used to get bouts of colitis and I don't think I ever figured out what caused it......
I'm discovering that Jazz's environmental allergies are probably contributing to her stomach issues in some way. I don't know if it's histamine overload or what. She was having tremors from eating, and I did a trial with Benadryl and it made a huge difference. Since she is young, I am going to start allergy shots with her...

Here's a weird thing that I learned.... if there is a clostridium perfringens issue (common cause of food poisoning, also many dogs carry this in their gut), if you eat *undercooked* sweet potatoes with meat, it can flair the organism. How weird is that????? The sweet potatoes have a trypsin inhibitor in them, that prevents the meat from breaking down, which somehow feeds the clostridium. Now, why would I know such a weird thing? Jazz was eating beef and SP when she had her flair of C Perf. and I went googling. I was microwaving it, and I know it wasn't completely cooked. So, moral is, make sure the SP is completely completely cooked.....

Of all things, I have Jazz on lamb and either steamed turnips (recommended by the dermatologist) or a bit of cauliflower just because she likes it on occassion.

Jazz is allergic to white potatoes. I'm sure dogs can be allergic to sweet potatoes, it's an item that was listed on her allergy test. But she didn't test allergic to it. There are like several different types of SP - aside from the clostridium issue, oddly, she only did well on the garnet SP, not the other versions. The nutritionist that I was talking to said that Jazz is not the only dog that had that issue, which is kinda funny.

Max had that red tummy issue, that I never resolved. I'm sure it was some kind of sensitivity. I gave him some quercitin in his diet, but, with all his issues, we were so limited with what we could do, and it seemed that he reacted to almost anything that he ate. The internist thought that he probably also harbored some pathogenic e.coli.

I've always had good luck with those vetri-science vitamins, but I'm sure some dogs out there don't do well on them. I've just started Jazz back on them, to see if she can tolerate them.

For Max's tummy, I syrnged some baking soda and water in his mouth, and it really made him feel better, kept his tummy from feeling bloated, and kept him from panting after meals. I'm doing the same with Jazz. Her internist says that as long as it is helping, that's better than adding something like zantac, at least for her, since she is overly sensitive.

Easier said than done, but do give yourself a break. We can do a lot with diet and supplements and care, but some times things are just the way they are. Knowing what to fret about and what we can't change is really hard though. I'm pretty obsessive about things here too.....
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