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Old January 23rd, 2016, 10:05 PM
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Disheartened by training

First off let me start by saying that I don't expect things to happen magically over night and I don't expect my pup to become a super dog jumping through rings and dancing.
After almost 3 weeks of training Ragnar had a huge regression this weekend. It goes from bitting the leash aggressively and not letting go which I do my best to stay calmed at and try to keep my cool when ordering to let go to going as far as attacking me when I left him off leash in the garden. He started charging at me, barking, bitting my ankles hard (I have them covered in bruises) thn jumping up trying to get my arms to the point of making me genuinely scared and my dad having to rush and taking his belt out and making a threatening motion because he just wouldn't stop.
I'm hurt emotionally. I've spent a lot of time, effort and even a good amount of money. I've been working a lot to make this work.
He's very dominant and refuses to accept me as his leader. But at least he used to respect my space more.
I don't want to give up on him but I'm showing the first signs of losing hope. I've even working on breathing techniques to keep a calm presence for him.
This week we seemed to make good progress but it went all down the drain suddenly this weekend with the young dog turning aggressive.
He has regular check ups and he's fine. I don't know what's going on but I want a dog I can live with in harmony and share good times together. This is even affecting my bonding process and I don't feel the love from him either like I felt it from Peanut or Gremlin.
I'm feel totally defeated at the moment. Wishing I could drop the towel although I well know I won't.
Every blog, article says to keep a calm, assertive attitude and I try but I'm just human. I can't be fricking Buddha to handle a dog
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Old January 23rd, 2016, 10:14 PM
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Please excuse all the grammar errors and typing. They're due to frustration.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:25 AM
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This morning we went out to pee and he behaved perfectly. He sat before going out when I told him to, sat to wait for me.
It puzzles me. I need to learn to understand him just like I understand cats so well.
Please advise
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Old January 24th, 2016, 12:25 PM
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what kind of dog do you have again ? It sound like you need the training more than the dog . A dog can tell when a person can't handle him he will keep on testing you now that you had showed you are afraid of him . My dog will bite on his leash to play tug of war with me and I will play with him for few minutes . I have seen other dogs to this too they're
playing . I hope someone here with more dog knowledge will have some suggestion . I really feel this dog may be too much for you to handle , he needs a strong person and going after him with a belt is only going to made matters worst . This is not a bad dog he is trying to tell you he need someone to be the pack leader or he will be it.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 05:00 PM
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I know. There are no bad dogs. I just want to make this work. I've been through a lot this last year and I really wanted a dog friend to take care of.
And I am in training. I hired a professional trainer to train me on how to train the dog. He has a lot of experience and he told me before what you did about leadership. We're still in dispute for the position. I've fostered dogs and we had a family dog that was outstanding he was born trained so in reality this is my first dog I train, in other words I'm just a noob and he's not the most difficult dog but certainly not an easy one to start with.
He's been behaving well today.
Tomorrow the trainer will come (he comes 6 times a week and we also do training on our own. That is Ragnar and me) I'll tell him what happened.
Im not easy to give up and I'm going to go all the way with the training and see how it goes.
But still any input will always be welcome.

Oh btw I know the belt thing sounds terrible. Just understand he was acting like a father trying to protect me the best way he could at that moment. He didn't hurt him and I know it's not something that helps to change the behavior to a deeper level and it won't happen again. Not the kind of resource I'd ever use.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 06:29 PM
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Maybe the dog wasn't hurt but they do remember this kind of stuff and he could think the next time someone raise their hand while holding an object he going to get hurt he might tried to protect himself by biting the person. Didn't you find this dog , who know what happen to him before .
I am not trying to put you down but this dog just could not be the right dog for you. A dog trainer can't change a person personally .
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Old January 24th, 2016, 10:01 PM
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Yes I found him. He's a mutt. Quite handsome to be honest. 55 pounds. Very elegant, athletic built. Light/medium brown,short coat, dark snout (like a German Shepherd).
I've had wonderful relationships with dogs, I don't consider myself a weak person but who knows, maybe I am. I don't want to change my personality and like you said a trainer can't do that either.
I wonder If there's a solution to this and yes, the trainer told me there are many cases where dogs don't match with certain people.
I though that love, hard work and being consistent was a good recipe. I'm not ready to give up yet. I need possible solutions. If all that's exahusted then I'd look into the option of rehoming him.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 04:13 AM
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foods?

hi...my labrador did show similar traits ocassionally. sometimes we linked them up with certain foods. did you try analysing? and sometimes it was because he was irritated with some other visitors...
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Old January 25th, 2016, 03:44 PM
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hi...my labrador did show similar traits ocassionally. sometimes we linked them up with certain foods. did you try analysing? and sometimes it was because he was irritated with some other visitors...
I recently changed foods to a higher quality one. The trainer says it's possible to adapt him better and that we'll find what has changed that triggered that reaction. He has taken over the command because he found a vulnerability, a weak spot.
Ii think it could be related to my dad that has an unhealthy, overprotective attitude towards some of the cats. Seriously it's bad. And he was present this time and another time Ragnar almost got to this point but didn't. Another thing in common is that it happened in the same spot exactly.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 04:58 PM
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I am really concerned that the dog might bite someone then need to be put down . How long have you been trying to train the dog? The trainer also told you than some dogs just don't works some people . You know nothing about dog the pass and do know your dad is show aggressive behavior around the dog. This could turn out really bad !
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Old January 25th, 2016, 07:04 PM
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Barkingdog. I think maybe you imagine something worse. He didn't break the skin. It certainly wasn't good but I told absolutely all the story to the trainer and he'll be assessing him really carefully while making adjustments and try to read Ragnar. In the event the dog doesn't adapt to me the trainer will help me to rehome him in an environment more suitable for him. I care very deeply about animals to be irresponsible and endanger Ragnar and another person. He got rough with me and I got frustrated and sad. What my dad did I cannot undo but I think we have a chance to amend things.
Everyone deserves a second chance even myself.
He has 2 weeks and a half only.
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Old January 25th, 2016, 07:14 PM
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Koteburo I just wanted to praise you for sticking with Ragner. In my opinion based on his age and length of time with you and your new to the doggy world or shall I say to the world of puppy dominance. It sounds exactly like that to me anyway. My late boy Winston was a handful. Extremely smart but he knew how to dominate me. We did 3 consecutive rounds of obedience training for approx 10 weeks each. I had to constantly stand my guard and show him I was the pack leader. I was taught to sort of growl with unwanted behaviour. It catches them off guard when you do it and their mind then becomes focused on you. I also was told by a trainer to hold him down each day until he learned to submit to it. It may sound cruel but he would wiggle and try to get out of my hold but finally realized I was the boss.

Ragner should be earning everything he gets right now. No extra treats no special babying just calm and assertive behaviour. Make him earn his rewards.

Ideally if you had a crate for Ragner so he doesnt feel so isolated it will likely help with his attitude.

I cant recall if you mentioned whether he was neutered or not. Sometimes this helps with those crazy hormones he has running through his body.

Dont give up, you can do it and OMG dogs are nothing like cats so getting ready for some fun!!

Good Luck and keep coming here for anything you need..
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 01:41 PM
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Koteburo I just wanted to praise you for sticking with Ragner. In my opinion based on his age and length of time with you and your new to the doggy world or shall I say to the world of puppy dominance. It sounds exactly like that to me anyway. My late boy Winston was a handful. Extremely smart but he knew how to dominate me. We did 3 consecutive rounds of obedience training for approx 10 weeks each. I had to constantly stand my guard and show him I was the pack leader. I was taught to sort of growl with unwanted behaviour. It catches them off guard when you do it and their mind then becomes focused on you. I also was told by a trainer to hold him down each day until he learned to submit to it. It may sound cruel but he would wiggle and try to get out of my hold but finally realized I was the boss.

Ragner should be earning everything he gets right now. No extra treats no special babying just calm and assertive behaviour. Make him earn his rewards.

Ideally if you had a crate for Ragner so he doesnt feel so isolated it will likely help with his attitude.

I cant recall if you mentioned whether he was neutered or not. Sometimes this helps with those crazy hormones he has running through his body.

Dont give up, you can do it and OMG dogs are nothing like cats so getting ready for some fun!!

Good Luck and keep coming here for anything you need..
It really cheered me up to see that there have been people like you that had a handful of a pup and was able to overcome those difficulties even if it takes extra work.
I don't think Ragnar is a lost cause at all. I need a lot of consistency and to be tougher, more of a strict teacher kind of figure.
I'm so used to be a total softy to my cats
I feel way more optimistic today, more hopeful. The trainer says we gotta work in my self confidence and my image again. I have to recover it and we're working on it and by the way I feel it's improving. I still have my doubts about my abilities however it's no magic I'll get there as well.
Thank you so much Winston it was very encouraging. I have to bring back a better behaved Ragnar to Calgary to our 2 cuties Scully and Mulder (and that's going to be a whole process of introduction that takes a whole thread again but I'll take care of that when the moment's closer) and a friend and protector to my little one and a buddy to my husband. (Remember that I'm in Mexico at the moment and there are so many dogs in so much need that the least I can do is take one and make it work)
Today he's doing better. He's showing less bitting, more of a nibbling behavior. He still jumps on peeps but as long as we keep moving forward it's fine.
I also talked to my dad not to do that anymore because it's also disruptive in the hierarchy process, it interferes with it among other things.
Well I'm way happier about this today no more feelings like in my first post of this thread
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Old January 26th, 2016, 05:25 PM
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So glad to help and yes you have to stay confident, but hey we have all had thoughs days. Not to scare you but I had a chocolate lab and he didnt stop testing me and mature until he was 4yrs old. Then he mellowed and accepted that I was higher in the pecking order than he was

A couple of things to try for the jumping are putting one of your legs up and bent up towards your chest area and if he connects he hits your leg and disrupts their success rate on connecting with you.

I have also been told when they come to jump on you you are supposed to turn around in the opposite direction HOWEVER, I have had to modify that a bit because I ended up with scratches down my back. I learned to turn around and then take a couple of steps forward and then looking back to ensure they dont connect with my back. Sometimes its hard to know when they are going to jump as well.

I would also learn how to as they call it in training to growl but to me it sounds more like arrghh but in a deep voice like a man. Hopefully this makes sense.

Cindy
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 06:21 PM
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Any suggestions on stubbornly bitting the leash during training. He uses that as a resource to stop me when he feels I'm stepping over his domain.
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Old January 26th, 2016, 06:48 PM
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Yes I would give him the arrgh I mentioned earlier while pulling the leash out of his controol, if he goes for it you correct him again with an arrgh. If he is super hyper when this is going on make him sit but you have to be prepared to reward the sit as well, even something as simple as what a good boy, dont touch him though because he will start to move again out of his sitting position.
If he does make him do everything that you want him to.

If your up for this I would also reccomend you put his leash on and tie him to you around your waist. This way you can also teach him what are bad manners when he is in the middle of doing something. Its always hard for puppy brain to understand sometimes what you may be trying to fix if its after the fact. Like the jumping up, if he is tied to you he wont have the opportunity to get much menentum because you will be on him right away hopefully nipping the problem in the bud.

Having said all of this why dont you discuss some of these thoughts with your trainer because ultimately they are with you and fully understand Ragner and I most certainly dont. I can only give you examples of what I have seen with a dominant dog that I owned personally. Ragner may take issue to some of these things as well so please make sure to mention what you are doing with the trainer as they are on site with you.

You can do it though and Ragner will appreciate it in the long run I am sure of that.
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 12:08 AM
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He has improved a lot! But he still won't come to me when off leash. We even started Frisbee training. The problem is when I mess up and lose my cool. Tonight we went for a walk and he picked up and avocado so we had a break so he could eat it. I let go off the leash and before I called him back he was bitting the leash and nibbling it so I got up trying to be like the boss (I feel so dumb now) demanding him to stop and give me the leash s he started running around and away, coming back and forth like a game and I got mad (which I know doesn't work at all, with dogs) I dropped some keys next to him as a distraction so I could grab him and then scolded him (yes I know, I know it's wrong) so he started to pull the leash away, jumping on me, bitting my hands and arms (nothing serious) and I got upset so I ruined it by getting mad and pushing him away and I know that's not recommended. I finally took him to do some circles to stabilize him and myself befor putting him to bed.
I lost control and did everything wrong. I have a cold and have been having headaches so imagine but still no excuse.
So the question is: How can I remember the right things to do and keep my cool when he's showing undesired behavior?

He responds so much better to the trainer even when every now and then Ragnar decides to do things his own way even with him but there's a huge difference when a stressful situation presents itself He has 30 years of experience training dogs

I forgot to tell you we do heel really well in both directions, he sits on command, sits to wait for his food.
He's not neutered yet. He's booked for Feb 8th. I wonder if that would help... ?
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 01:58 PM
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Neutering may help a bit, but he sounds like he's just acting out puppy stuff. That teasing while you're trying to get the leash is classic hi-jinx stuff, and the nipping afterward is probably the result of him getting all excited while he was playing the keep-away-from-mom game! Just keep plugging away at it--eventually you'll train yourself to keep your cool (although I know after decades with dogs I still have my 'moments' ). And consistency will always win out in the end.
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 03:14 PM
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Neutering may help a bit, but he sounds like he's just acting out puppy stuff. That teasing while you're trying to get the leash is classic hi-jinx stuff, and the nipping afterward is probably the result of him getting all excited while he was playing the keep-away-from-mom game! Just keep plugging away at it--eventually you'll train yourself to keep your cool (although I know after decades with dogs I still have my 'moments' ). And consistency will always win out in the end.
Poor guy he's still very young Maybe I'm not being understanding with that part enough.
Patience and consistency It's just he bit a soft part and OUCH! He got on my nerves
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Old February 2nd, 2016, 07:49 PM
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Koteboro i had to laugh sorry at your expense but my boy used to do what I call the crazy 8 thing. He would run sround the living room table then out into the dining room and back again into the living room. My trainer told me to stand up perfectly straight and be calm and ask him to stop, no chasing him and he wouldnt come to me if his life depended on it....

My lab that I have now Sophie cannot be let off leash if I have to go somewhere. For example in the morning and at night her potty breaks are on leash because although she is going to be 5yrs old it seems to be her territory and she thinks she can do what she wants.....so we do her business on leash and back in the house...

I had so many days when I would say or do the wrong thing, but until your used to being the boss and being in that mindset it will just come naturally and we all make mistakes and have bad days....then we feel guilty and snuggle.....no just kidding.

When you dont feel well it is also hard. When he gets fixed you may or may not notice a difference other than he cannot reproduce..some dogs mellow some dont.....

Biggest thing is be consistant. You can set up situations that he would react to and practice with him. Its good for both of you...
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 09:50 PM
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Koteburo just thought I would check in and see how your boy is coming along.. I thought you had mentioned he was going in for a neuter before you head back home....maybe your home already Hope Ragner is doing well. Most males handle it pretty well....Looking for an updated picture of your handsome boy as well....
Cindy
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"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
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Old February 24th, 2016, 01:56 AM
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Koteburo just thought I would check in and see how your boy is coming along.. I thought you had mentioned he was going in for a neuter before you head back home....maybe your home already Hope Ragner is doing well. Most males handle it pretty well....Looking for an updated picture of your handsome boy as well....
Cindy
Dear Winston (letter style)
After more and more training, meditation, fetching, breeding techniques, walks. My very dear friend Ragnar is not feeling comfortable a 100% with me. Recently we had a redirected aggression episode. We went to an enclosed big garden to play. Just him and me. He decided he didn't want to play fetch with me so I let him be, he got super hyper and after a few minutes he started charging at me from the front, left and right in an open field. He was growling and got aggressive to the point that I grabbed a plastic chair that I luckily had at hand, legs forward to keep him at bay not before he bit my arms and 1 ankle. He didn't break the skin but he did enough damage to cause bruises, bumps under my skin where the fangs hit and pain enough to take ibuprofen.
Once I yelled at him to stop, I threw the chair next to him (not at him) and broke in tears. Not because of bites but because I felt I failed and there I was loving him and hating him for a second at the same time.
I understood right there that it wasn't going to work, not because he's bad since there are no bad dogs but because I wasn't providing the conditions he needs.
I talked to his trainer and he told me that he agrees and he always thought he's one of those dogs that needs a job badly. But he also thought it was worth giving it a good shot. Like patrolling with a guard or something of the sort.
On the first day of training the trainer told me: Not every dog is a good match for every person.
He's helping me find a new place more suitable for him and he's very kind to animals so he even went to check with a potential adopter to check on the place and the conditions because we're not going to give Ragnar to anyone who says me.
His daughter (the trainer's) is a photographer and she came to take loooooooooots of great pics of Ragnar.
And that's where I'm at. I take walks with him and I star crying because we spent so much time together but at the same time I find comfort in knowing that I saved his life, that I gave it my best given my current conditions and he'll have a more fulfilling life in the right place.
Meanwhile there's Ali another rescue that's living with a vet I know here. Her story is on the main forum and some pics.
Ever since I saw her it was love at first sight. She's gentle, happy and loving and she has 3 legs. A tripawd. Met her with four but badly injured.
I'll most likely be bringing her. My husband seems to like her a lot already, even my grumpy dad has taken a special liking for her (charisma dog).
We'll be assessing her too but I'm almost positive she's a match. I just have a strong feeling, I just know it.
Sorry for the long post but I had to tell the story to a fellow animal lover
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Old February 24th, 2016, 02:39 AM
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He's so handsome
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Look at those golden eyes. Like a wolf :P
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Old February 24th, 2016, 09:57 AM
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Wow he is gorgeous! Listen as your trainer mentioned not every dog is a Match!!

Remember this though........

YOU DID WHAT WAS BEST FOR Ragner and that is of the utmost importance. It is very difficult for most people to accept defeat or to accept that they are not a match BUT you have and that tells a lot about you...

I did read about Ali but didn't offer an opinion as I don't know a lot about a tripod dog but do know that they learn to adapt without their legs WAY better than a human does! youll be fine just stay positive.

Please don't feel bad about Ragner...no one is perfect.

How is Ali doing with the removal of the leg now?
Cindy
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  #25  
Old February 24th, 2016, 11:21 AM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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I totally agree with Winston! You tried, and you tried hard, but not every dog is a good match for every person! So don't beat yourself up, Koteburo!

You're still doing your best for Ragnar and being very responsible--I'm sure that between you and your trainer, you'll be able to find him his perfect furever home! Think of his stay with you as a foster situation--because it's very similar to that. The important thing is that you saved him from a bad situation and now he's going to find a good place for the rest of his life!

I do hope it works out well with Ali! I could tell from your post about her that she'd already about captured your heart! Pls keep us posted!
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  #26  
Old February 24th, 2016, 12:00 PM
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Koteburo Koteburo is offline
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Ali is coping really well with her three legs. Actually seems like she feels unburdened since she carried that injured leg for many days. She seems very happy. Active, she gets along with all the dogs at the vet. They have a bulldog, 2 doberman, 3 cats, geckos and 1 opossum.
Funny enough 2 of the dogs and 1 of the cats are tripods. All are rescues (except for the geckos).
She's very friendly and omg this is weird but I feel I love her already. Like Hazel said she captured my heart.
All I'm worried about it's really foul smelling stool, firm though but when I was told about that she wasn't dewormed yet.
So now I'm like against the clock with the spaying, shots, etc but I can't rush it more than what's best for Ali's health.
I'll keep you updated
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Last edited by Koteburo; February 24th, 2016 at 05:22 PM.
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