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Old February 25th, 2013, 11:08 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 8
I need to know what had happened to my Dog

My dog just died few days ago. I would be very grateful if anyone
could give me some advice or some idea what had happened to my dog?
I just want to know the truth.

I'm deeply believed that my dog got a bone stuck somewhere
inside her body. Am I right?

Is it worth to do the X-Ray if the object is ....
i) a small fish bone or chicken bone about 1cm in length
ii) small glass about sweet corn and peanut size
.....stuck somewhere inside the body.

Is Emergency Clinic the best choice if anything like this ever
happen again?

Appreciate.




German Shepherd female 5 years old
My Dog (Princess) Always in perfect health before.

On Feb/16/2013, Saturday.
After the dinner with some chicken bone. My dog (Princess) was choking about half an hour. Then she seems completely recover.
Next day. Feb/17/2013. Sunday
She's active and healthy as usual. Showing no any signs with anything. 100% health as usual. She eats only very very little food at night. But throw up all out few hours later.
Completely black solid stool. She drinks a bit more water than usual on this day.

The third day. Feb/18/2013. Monday
She's active and healthy as usual. I don't see anything physically strange except she spend much more time besides me. Touching me ( Now. I think she's trying to tell me something but I'm just too stupid to understand her body language. ) She don't eat anything but drinks double water than usual.
Black solid stool.

The fourth day. Feb/19/2013. Tuesday
She's active and healthy as usual. I started to worry but not sure if I should take her to the vet. She drinks more water and spend more time with me than usual.
I'm so nervous on this day eager to see if she going to eat anything tonight.
The answer is no. And this time is the first time ever I found her a little bit lose her balance while walking in the backyard.
Black liquid stool.

Fifth day. Feb/20/2013. Wednesday
I can't sleep at all last night and wake up in 4am and just sitting there besides Princess waiting for the dawn. I started to think every little things ever happened within this few days.
Princess can barely walk and it seems very difficult for her to support her own weight. She don't drink any water at all this day.
Black liquid stool.
I started Calling every clinic, asking the same question.
" If my dog did suffer from chicken bone and she needs surgery operation, Can you promise to finish everything in same day? "
Finally I found one Vet far away from me on bell road. But they promise they can perform full service included surgery (if in need) in same day.






First Vet ; Fifth day. Feb/20/2013 Wednesday. 9:40am - Heavy rain.

Assistant measure Princess's weight and temperature first.

----- Right after I signed the agreement to do the X-Ray.

Vet Assistant ; If the bone in some particular places, we can do it today. But if it's in some other places. Such as in anywhere above stomach. We can't. You need to make some other appointment with other specialist.
Danson (me) ; ( I feel faint to hear she saying that. But I don't want to leave and making dozen of phone calls and driving with a suffering dog under heavy rain again. Any way, this clinic seems very professional and got a lot of equipment. I also check it's reputation before I came. And their fees are not cheap. )
Well, please do whatever you can to save her.
FV ---- Walks in with X-Ray result. No question ask. Touch Princess belly for few times.
FV: " Good News! " It's not caused by Chicken Bone. You see!! There's no Chicken bone found in her body. Don't worry too much. I won't if I were you. But she is very weak and there must be something going on.
Danson ; What if the chicken bone very small and tiny enough to disappear from the X-Ray result? Or else the bone already did the damage before left her body ?
FV; I don't think so. If there is the bone. It would be very bright white. I can see there's some light inflame in digest system. It couldn't be the Chicken bone.
It's some kind of bacteria or virus infection.
We will give her some fluid-injection to prevent dehydration. Anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) . Pain-relief.
And we need to do some more blood test.
Danson ; Well, if just some sort of light bacteria infection. How comes and where was the great amount of blood in her Black stool from?
FV ; Possibly there was some chicken bones stuck in her teeth. I already try to open her mouth but she just don't like it. I need to give her a shot ($80) to calm her down. So I can open her mouth.

Then the vet gone and the assistant came in showing me the bill agreement with almost $600 dollar.

I think this vet doing the right thing. I don't care the money at all and I can't say anything wrong with her. But it could waste lots of time on fluid injection only. And all those endless tests.
Even though there shows none of virus infection. I think there will be more and more test up coming. I do believe she will save her eventually. I can see she's so determine to believe that Princess was just some kind of virus or
bacteria infection. But I don't see any determination from her to finish all in one day.
Besides, I didn't tell the vet I already checked Princess's mouth inside out at home and found none of chicken bones, not even any signs of blood.
At this point, the only thing in my mind is to leave this clinic as soon as possible. They say Princess need another appointment on Friday morning. Feb/22/2013 . I say yes. OK .
I took the Anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) only for Princess and drive her all the way back home. Trying to find her another clinic in the afternoon.
Amazingly, Princess seems a bit better and got some strength but walk difficultly in the room. So what had happened?
Maybe I'm wrong. It's virus infection just like the Vet said? and the Amoxicillin is working?
In fact, It's almost one o'clock when I got home. And I found it gets very difficult to find any clinic to declare they can save Princess in same day. I also thinking to take her to the emergency clinic but I started to believe what the Vet said it's only some light inflame.
I decided to wait until next morning if the anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) did work.





Feb/21/2013 Thursday - Morning
This is the longest night ever. For me and Princess. She's in terrible condition starts from mid-night.

Unfortunately, the only sign I can see from Princess is death. She can't walk at all. The whole
body just lying there. Not much emotions on her face but only thing that I can see is pain and sorrow.
I keep watching Princess's face and it's the face I'll never forget.
Then I started to go another clinic who declare that they can perform the surgery if in need. I checked this clinic's reputation two years ago and it's the closest one. Only one mile away.
This time I also ask the price for euthanasia.




Second Vet ; Sixth day. Feb/21/2013 Thursday.

They did check Princess's weight. But no one ever check her temperature.

SV - Walk in. He need nothing from the First Vet. He don't even touch Princess.

Danson ; You don't take a look of the X-Ray. from previous vet? ( I already told him the previous Vet can't find any. chicken bone in it.)
SV ; Usually the chicken bones stuck inside body are very small. X-Ray are useless.
Danson ; So... What do you think? Can we save Princess or just put her down?
SV ; Did Princess ever take any vaccine?
Danson ; Few years ago. The previous owner did. But I have no idea what kind of vaccine it is.
SV ; It's very likely the distemper Virus. She's shaking violently. Distemper virus could damage
the brain and if it's chicken bone. It wouldn't let her suffer like this. ( She's shaking violently at that moment. Lots of liquid coming out from her mouth. )
Danson ; She already starving for five days and I hold her with one arm using too much force when I close
the vehicle door. I believe it's me who hurt her chest. She never shaking like that before. And it's the best prove there's some kind of sharp object inside her body. Isn't it?!
SV ; Forget about the chicken bone. I'm telling you It's not chicken bone. If it's the chicken bone. She's
too weak to perform operation now. If it's distemper virus. I don't think she will recover from it.
Danson; ( I can't control my tear now.
I'm crying is because I shall never let Princess eat any chicken bones.
I'm crying because I once believed the first vet. Even just for a while.
Now I'm making the decision to put you down is not because I believe any word from second Vet. But I do agree you are too weak now.
I cry because I didn't take you to emergency clinic from the very beginning.
I cry because I don't want you to recover any more. The only thing in my mind right now is hoping you stop shaking and suffering.
I cry because I don't want to driving you around and begging anyone to believe you've got a bone inside your body anymore.
)
Please put Princess down. Doctor. I just don't want to see her suffer any longer.
I'll sign whatever you give me to sign. Just stop writing and give her a shot. Do it quick.!!! Please....



Princess don't eat any regular meal during the first three days. But when I gave some favorite food to her. She eager to eat as usual. But all the food will throw up after few hours shows no signs of digestion.
It's really hard for me to believe one 100% health dog all of the sudden steps into the gate of death. And all of this happens right after the meal.
She don't eat anything after the last meal on Feb/16/2013. Saturday night.
She don't drink anything starts from Feb/20/2013 Wednesday.


As I know Distemper is highly contagious. But I've got another small dog in the same age as Princess. She's in perfect health so far. The last time I took her to vaccine is four years ago but I have no idea what kind of vaccine it was.
Second Vet says Princess very likely is distemper because she's shaking violently and got the signs of brain damage but I've check all the symptoms of distemper. She don't match any.
She never shake like that and never got any signs of brain damage before the I holding her into the Second Clinic.
She shake violent like that right after I holding her with one hand. Makes me even more convinced that she has some kind of object inside her body.
Besides. There was about one minute during eye inspection by Second Vet Princess experienced difficultly to breath. That makes me believe the sharp object moves from esophagus to trachea during the time I'm holding her on my arm.
Distemper's symptom also included fever and loss of appetite but Princess never got any fever and the day on Feb/20/2013,Wednesday is the first time I ever found she loss her appetite in her life.

Last edited by Danson; February 26th, 2013 at 05:51 PM. Reason: correct mistakes
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  #2  
Old February 26th, 2013, 08:37 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 585
Danson, my heart goes out to you, I cannot even begin to imagine how you must be feeling right now.

I cannot tell you if it was a bone or not, it could have been any other unrelated thing, maybe the second vet was right... it is up to us to try and make the best decisions for our furkids, as hard as it may be, you did what you thought was best for her, you didn't want her to suffer

I would say remember her with all those good memories you have left, and hold on to them tight, don't hurt your self wondering what if, what if... I know if I was you I would be feeling the same way you are, but I hope you can find some comfort in knowing she loves you and is looking after you

hmm, just before I read your post, I read this little email someone sent me:

WHY DOGS LIVE LESS THAN HUMAN ? ANSWER OF A 6 YEAR OLD

Being a veterinarian, I had been called to examine a ten-year-old Irish Wolfhound named Belker. The dog’s owners, Ron, his wife Lisa, and their little boy Shane, were all very attached to Belker, and they were hoping for a miracle.

I examined Belker and found he was dying of cancer. I told the family we couldn’t do anything for Belker, and offered to perform the euthanasia procedure for the old dog in their home.

As we made arrangements, Ron and Lisa told me they thought it would be good for six-year-old Shane to observe the procedure. They felt as though Shane might learn something from the experience.

The next day, I felt the familiar catch in my throat as Belker ‘s family surrounded him. Shane seemed so calm, petting the old dog for the last time, that I wondered if he understood what was going on. Within a few minutes, Belker slipped peacefully away.
The little boy seemed to accept Belker’s transition without any difficulty or confusion. We sat together for a while after Belker’s Death, wondering aloud about the sad fact that animal lives are shorter than human lives.

Shane, who had been listening quietly, piped up, ”I know why.”

Startled, we all turned to him. What came out of his mouth next stunned me. I’d never heard a more comforting explanation. It has changed the way I try and live.

He said,”People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life — like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right?” The Six-year-old continued,

”Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don’t have to stay as long.”
[/SIZE]
__________________
Dogs don't need to talk, their life is their message ~ unknown.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Last edited by Jull; February 26th, 2013 at 10:00 AM. Reason: typo "him for her"
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  #3  
Old February 26th, 2013, 09:49 AM
marko's Avatar
marko marko is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Montreal Quebec Canada
Posts: 11,011
Please accept my deepest condolences Danson .

Nobody here will be able to tell you what happened with any degree of certainty though. It's all just guessing. Sounds to me like the dog may possibly have had some type of obstruction, but that too is a guess based only on what is written and my own personal experiences.

I can tell you that a former adopted cat of mine had 2 obstructions from eating a mouse and a bird. Both times the cat's behaviour was off within 24 hours and the cat saw the vet within 24 hours and both times x-rays did reveal blockages (showed bones) that needed surgical removal. Each surgery was over 2000. The cat had 3 of them during his life. Most expensive cat ever.

The only real way to confirm what you believe is through an expensive autopsy.

Personally, I agree with Jull who wrote;
"I would say remember him with all those good memories you have left, and hold on to them tight, don't hurt your self wondering what if, what if... I know if I was you I would be feeling the same way you are, but I hope you can find some comfort in knowing he loves you and is looking after you "

Remember the good times.

sweet Princess

Sincerely
Marko
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  #4  
Old February 26th, 2013, 02:49 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danson View Post
My dog just died few days ago. I would be very grateful if anyone
could give me some advice or some idea what had happened to my dog?
I just want to know the truth.

I'm deeply believed that my dog got a bone stuck somewhere
inside her body. Am I right?

Is it worth to do the X-Ray if the object is ....
i) a small fish bone or chicken bone about 1cm in length
ii) small glass about sweet corn and peanut size
.....stuck somewhere inside the body.

Is Emergency Clinic the best choice if anything like this ever
happen again?

Appreciate.




German Shepherd female 5 years old
My Dog (Princess) Always in perfect health before.

On Feb/16/2013, Saturday.
After the dinner with some chicken bone. My dog (Princess) was choking about half an hour. Then she seems completely recover.
Next day. Feb/17/2013. Sunday
She's active and healthy as usual. Showing no any signs with anything. 100% health as usual. She eats only very very little food at night. But throw up all out few hours later.
Completely black solid stool. She drinks a bit more water than usual on this day.

The third day. Feb/18/2013. Monday
She's active and healthy as usual. I don't see anything physically strange except she spend much more time besides me. Touching me ( Now. I think she's trying to tell me something but I'm just too stupid to understand her body language. ) She don't eat anything but drinks double water than usual.
Black solid stool.

The fourth day. Feb/19/2013. Tuesday
She's active and healthy as usual. I started to worry but not sure if I should take her to the vet. She drinks more water and spend more time with me than usual.
I'm so nervous on this day eager to see if she going to eat anything tonight.
The answer is no. And this time is the first time ever I found her a little bit lose her balance while walking in the backyard.
Black liquid stool.

Fifth day. Feb/20/2013. Wednesday
I can't sleep at all last night and wake up in 4am and just sitting there besides Princess waiting for the dawn. I started to think every little things ever happened within this few days.
Princess can barely walk and it seems very difficult for her to support her own weight. She don't drink any water at all this day.
Black liquid stool.
I started Calling every clinic, asking the same question.
" If my dog did suffer from chicken bone and she needs surgery operation, Can you promise to finish everything in same day? "
Finally I found one Vet far away from me on bell road. But they promise they can perform full service included surgery (if in need) in same day.






First Vet ; Fifth day. Feb/20/2013 Wednesday. 9:40am - Heavy rain.

Assistant measure Princess's weight and temperature first.

----- Right after I signed the agreement to do the X-Ray.

Vet Assistant ; If the bone in some particular places, we can do it today. But if it's in some other places. Such as in Stomach or under. We can't. You need to make some other appointment with other specialist.
Danson (me) ; ( I feel faint to hear she saying that. But I don't want to leave and making dozen of phone calls and driving with a suffering dog under heavy rain again. Any way, this clinic seems very professional and got a lot of equipment. I also check it's reputation before I came. And their fees are not cheap. )
Well, please do whatever you can to save her.
FV ---- Walks in with X-Ray result. No question ask. Touch Princess belly for
few times.
FV: " Good News! " It's not caused by Chicken Bone. You see!! There's no
Chicken bone found in her body.
Don't worry too much. I won't if I were you. But she is very weak and there must be
something going on.
Danson ; What if the chicken bone very small and tiny enough to disappear from
the X-Ray result? Or else the bone already did the damage before left her
body ?
FV; I don't think so. If there is the bone. It would be very bright white. I can
see there's some light inflame in digest system. It couldn't be the Chicken bone.
It's some kind of bacteria or virus infection.
We will give her some fluid-injection to prevent dehydration. Anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) . Pain-relief.
And we need to do some more blood test.
Danson ; Well, if just some sort of light bacteria infection. How comes and where was the great amount of
blood in her Black stool?
FV ; Possibly there was some chicken bones stuck in her teeth. I already try to open her mouth and try to examine it but she just don't like it. I need to give her a shot ($80) to calm her down. So I can open her mouth.

Then the vet gone and the assistant came in showing me the bill agreement with almost $600 dollar.

I think this vet doing the right thing. I don't care the money at all and I can't say anything wrong with her. But
It could waste lots of time on fluid injection only. And all those endless tests.
Even though there shows none of virus infection. I think there will be more and more test up coming. I do
believe she will save her eventually. I can see she's so determine to believe that Princess was just some kind of virus or
bacteria infection. But I don't see any determination from her to finish all in one day.
Besides, I didn't tell the vet I already checked Princess's mouth inside out at home and found none of chicken bones, not
even any signs of blood.
At this point, the only thing in my mind is to leave this clinic as soon as possible. They say Princess need another
appointment on Friday morning. Feb/22/2013 . I say yes. OK .
I took the Anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) only for Princess and drive her all the way back home. Trying to find
her another clinic in the afternoon.
Amazingly, Princess seems a bit better and got some strength but walk difficultly in the room. So what had happened?
Maybe I'm wrong. It's virus infection just like the Vet said? and the Amoxicillin is working?
In fact, It's almost one o'clock when I got home. And I found it getting very difficult to find any clinic to declare they can
save Princess in same day. I also thinking to take her to the emergency clinic but I started to believe what the Vet said
it's only some light inflame.
I decided to wait until next morning if the anti-biotic (Amoxicillin) did work.





Feb/21/2013 Thursday - Morning
This is the longest night ever. For me and Princess. She's in terrible condition starts from mid-night.

She don't eat anything starts from Feb/16/2013. Saturday.
She don't drink anything starts from Feb/20/2013 Wednesday.

Unfortunately, the only sign I can see from Princess is death. She can't walk at all. The whole
body just lying there. Not much emotions on her face but only thing that I can see is pain and sorrow.
I keep watching Princess's face and it's the face I'll never forget.
Then I started to go another clinic who declare that they can perform the surgery if in need. I checked this clinic's reputation two years ago and it's the closest one. Only one mile away.
This time I also ask the price for euthanasia.




Second Vet ; Sixth day. Feb/21/2013 Thursday.

They did check Princess's weight. But no one ever check her temperature.

SV - Walk in. He need nothing from the First Vet. He don't even touch Princess.

Danson ; You don't take a look of the X-Ray. from previous vet? ( I already told him the previous Vet can't find any. chicken bone in it.)
SV ; Usually the chicken bones stuck inside body are very small. X-Ray are useless.
Danson ; So... What do you think? Can we save Princess or just put her down?
SV ; Did Princess ever take any vaccine?
Danson ; Few years ago. The previous owner did. But I have no idea what kind of vaccine it is.
SV ; It's very likely the distemper Virus. She's shaking violently. Distemper virus could damage
the brain and if it's chicken bone. It wouldn't let her suffer like this. ( She's shaking violently at that moment. Lots of liquid coming out from her mouth. )
Danson ; She already starving for five days and I hold her with one arm using too much force when I close
the vehicle door. I believe it's me who hurt her chest. She never shaking like that before. And it's the best prove there's some kind of sharp object inside her body. Isn't it?!
SV ; Forget about the chicken bone. I'm telling you It's not chicken bone. If it's the chicken bone. She's
too weak to perform operation now. If it's distemper virus. I don't think she will recover from it.
Danson; ( I can't control my tear now.
I'm crying is because I shall never let Princess eat any chicken bones.
I'm crying because I once believed the first vet. Even just for a while.
Now I'm making the decision to put you down is not because I believe any word from second Vet. But I do agree you are too weak now.
I cry because I didn't take you to emergency clinic from the very beginning.
I cry because I don't want you to recover any more. The only thing in my mind right now is hoping you stop shaking and suffering.
I cry because I don't want to driving you around and begging anyone to believe you've got a bone inside your body anymore.
)
Please put Princess down. Doctor. I just don't want to see her suffer any longer.
I'll sign whatever you give me to sign. Just stop writing and give her a shot. Do it quick.!!! Please....

http://www.petside.com/article/dog-talk-what-poop-means


When a dog has black stools it can mean the dog is bleeding internally
and need to be taken to the vet right away. I am sorry for the lost of your dog.
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  #5  
Old February 26th, 2013, 06:11 PM
Danson Danson is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 8
What a great fortune?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jull View Post
Danson, my heart goes out to you, I cannot even begin to imagine how you must be feeling right now.

I cannot tell you if it was a bone or not, it could have been any other unrelated thing, maybe the second vet was right... it is up to us to try and make the best decisions for our furkids, as hard as it may be, you did what you thought was best for her, you didn't want her to suffer

I would say remember her with all those good memories you have left, and hold on to them tight, don't hurt your self wondering what if, what if... I know if I was you I would be feeling the same way you are, but I hope you can find some comfort in knowing she loves you and is looking after you

hmm, just before I read your post, I read this little email someone sent me:

WHY DOGS LIVE LESS THAN HUMAN ? ANSWER OF A 6 YEAR OLD

Being a veterinarian, I had been called to examine a ten-year-old Irish Wolfhound named Belker. The dog’s owners, Ron, his wife Lisa, and their little boy Shane, were all very attached to Belker, and they were hoping for a miracle.

I examined Belker and found he was dying of cancer. I told the family we couldn’t do anything for Belker, and offered to perform the euthanasia procedure for the old dog in their home.

As we made arrangements, Ron and Lisa told me they thought it would be good for six-year-old Shane to observe the procedure. They felt as though Shane might learn something from the experience.

The next day, I felt the familiar catch in my throat as Belker ‘s family surrounded him. Shane seemed so calm, petting the old dog for the last time, that I wondered if he understood what was going on. Within a few minutes, Belker slipped peacefully away.
The little boy seemed to accept Belker’s transition without any difficulty or confusion. We sat together for a while after Belker’s Death, wondering aloud about the sad fact that animal lives are shorter than human lives.

Shane, who had been listening quietly, piped up, ”I know why.”

Startled, we all turned to him. What came out of his mouth next stunned me. I’d never heard a more comforting explanation. It has changed the way I try and live.

He said,”People are born so that they can learn how to live a good life — like loving everybody all the time and being nice, right?” The Six-year-old continued,

”Well, dogs already know how to do that, so they don’t have to stay as long.”
[/SIZE]


There's nothing I can do for my dog while she's alive. I do hope to do something for her now. Find out the truth able to make me feel better. And I do believe I could be a better owner next time to do so.
What a great fortune if we could just met a Vet like you on that day!? Jull~~
I'm deeply appreciate for your story. I shall forget it.
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  #6  
Old February 26th, 2013, 06:35 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 8
Nice guess Marko. I do lots of research online. Not a chance it could be distemper. But I can't ignore the possibility of infection.
I'm right checking all infection cases, all dog diseases. Hoping I could find one matches my dog's case.
You're right. The autopsy is absolutely the best way to dig it out but the body already through the cremation. I really don't expect that I'll be so determine to find out the truth.
Besides, there must be some Vet or other owner ever got the same experience as I do. There must be.
Thanks Marko.

Last edited by Danson; February 26th, 2013 at 06:37 PM. Reason: forget to say thank
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  #7  
Old February 26th, 2013, 06:39 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkingdog View Post
http://www.petside.com/article/dog-talk-what-poop-means


When a dog has black stools it can mean the dog is bleeding internally
and need to be taken to the vet right away. I am sorry for the lost of your dog.

I'm not a good owner though. I hope I could be a better one next time.
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  #8  
Old February 26th, 2013, 06:48 PM
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pbpatti pbpatti is offline
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Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,862
Danson, I am crying as I read your post and now as I am writing this reply. I am so, so sorry that you did not get any answers to why Princess took ill so quickly and passed.

Keep those good memories of her in your mind to help you get through these next difficult days/weeks.
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  #9  
Old February 26th, 2013, 09:04 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 8
Keep going

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbpatti View Post
Danson, I am crying as I read your post and now as I am writing this reply. I am so, so sorry that you did not get any answers to why Princess took ill so quickly and passed.

Keep those good memories of her in your mind to help you get through these next difficult days/weeks.

Thanks pbpatti. I'll keep following up this post.

Last edited by Danson; February 27th, 2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  #10  
Old February 27th, 2013, 08:23 AM
Jull Jull is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danson View Post
There's nothing I can do for my dog while she's alive. I do hope to do something for her now. Find out the truth able to make me feel better. And I do believe I could be a better owner next time to do so.
What a great fortune if we could just met a Vet like you on that day!? Jull~~
I'm deeply appreciate for your story. I shall forget it.
I just wanted to clarify, I am not vet - just another dog lover on this forum.

Please don't call your self a bad owner, maybe you just didn't have all the tools or a manual that tells you what to do in every situation (we all wish we had one) you loved Princess and gave her a good life, maybe there was just an underlying health problem that nobody ever knew about, there is many possibilities; but I wouldn't call you a bad owner.

A bad owner doesn't hurt when their baby has passed away, a bad owner doesn't try to find an answer to what could have caused it... a bad owner doesn't feed their dog, doesn't love them, a bad owner will intentionally and physically hurt the dog, to me that is a bad owner, and shouldn't even be a dog owner in the first place.

Hope you can find an answer that can bring peace to your heart.
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  #11  
Old February 27th, 2013, 10:35 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Final

I keep digging many different infection that I can reach.
My dog's case are rare but I did found other dogs was infected by distemper share the same symptoms as Princess.
There's the possibility of chicken bones as a culprit. But I'm now convinced more likely my dog was infected by
distemper.
Also thanks the comment from Dr.Kathleen , Dr.Harmon & Dr.Gaolin.

My final word is...

i) Never give your dog any chicken bones.
ii) Close and isolated area can only reduce the infection rate.
iii) Keep good communication with a good Vet.

To my beloved Princess. Thanks you all.
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  #12  
Old February 28th, 2013, 10:07 AM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danson View Post
I keep digging many different infection that I can reach.
My dog's case are rare but I did found other dogs was infected by distemper share the same symptoms as Princess.
There's the possibility of chicken bones as a culprit. But I'm now convinced more likely my dog was infected by
distemper.
Also thanks the comment from Dr.Kathleen , Dr.Harmon & Dr.Gaolin.

My final word is...

i) Never give your dog any chicken bones.
ii) Close and isolated area can only reduce the infection rate.
iii) Keep good communication with a good Vet.

To my beloved Princess. Thanks you all.
http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/distemper...ts-dogs?page=2


I read this web site that has the symptoms of distemper and it does not say anything about dogs having black stools. Sadly I believe your dog was bleeding internally. I posted the link so you would know what to look for if decides to get another dog. My dad brought home a GS female that was about a year old and the breeder sold my dad a dog that had distemper.
The poor dog dies about 4 four days later. I was so angry at the breeder!
Unfortually there are some dishonest breeders around.

My spell check it not working right so pleases excuses any misspelled words.
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  #13  
Old March 2nd, 2013, 11:13 PM
binkybuff binkybuff is offline
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If anyone, animal or human has black stools, get yourself or them to a Dr. or Vet immediately.

Black stools mean internal bleeding and needs immediate attention.

Sorry you lost your fur baby.

take care

binky
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  #14  
Old March 4th, 2013, 01:22 AM
Danson Danson is offline
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Moving Forward...

I tried my best to believe. But there's something else is going on.
In fact, all the comment I've got from other Vet's through email communication is quite ambiguous and not clear.
The reason I was convinced Princess died from Distemper virus is because I did found some infected cases matches my dog's symptoms. Even though it's extremely rare the dog infected by distemper shows only two symptom - black stool and shaking violently. I did found one case online decribed by owner if it's description is precise.

Just got the result from the lab yesterday. Rather surprised......

So here's the briefing -

i) The First Vet - The clinic located inside a very huge nation wide Pet Store. Expensive, professional, well equipment.
( Princess - Diagnosis as Virus Infection Feb/20/2013. Wednesday )
ii) The second Vet - The regular Animal hospital lying on the corner of street. Claiming they can perform the surgery as in need. They charge regular price.
( Princess - Diagnosis as Distemper Feb/21/2013 Thursday )

iii) The third Vet - The clinic by Non-Profit Organization. Very professional, well equipment and the price is about 15% cheaper compare to regular private own clinic.
( Another lap-dog, Sophia lived with Princess for 4 years. She's not vaccinated as Princess. Same bed, same bowl. Same age, 5 years old. Feb/28/2013 Thursday )


I should take Sophia to Vet much earlier since she must continually threatened by those infections and distemper according the diagnosis from previous two Vet. But I was so depressed at that moment and this clinic by Non-Profit Organization are very difficult to make an appointment as well.
So I bring Sophia to this clinic in the afternoon on Feb/21/2013, Thursday. Even though Sophia looks healthy at the moment but I expected she already got some kind of infection just as Princess did. Especially the distemper almost like the Black Death among dogs. Even though she looks healthy so far but I don't expect too much and prepare for the worst.

Assistant checked both weight and temperture.

Danson ; May I ask you some question not related to Sophia?
Assistant ; Sure.
Danson ; If there was a chicken bone stuck inside the body and it lies parallel to the X-Ray beam. It could be very tricky to see it from the X-Ray, Right?
Assistant ; This will not be the case since we take the X-Ray from two point of view. One from the left and another one taken from the above. ( The X-Ray Princess took in first Vet for $200 but only one left view. I'm very surprised my dog able to get two point of view for $80 dollar here.)

Third Vet ; Hi
Danson ; Hello. I've got another dog died few days ago. Would you mind if I ask some questions about it's symptom?
TV ; I feel sorry for your lost. What happened to that dog?
Danson ; Princess ate some chicken bones few days ago....... ........ ......... ......... ........ shaking violently and liquids comes out from her month....... ................ then she past away.
TV ; What kind of liquid comes out from her mouth?
Danson ; It's clear and transparent, just like regular liquid from dog's mouth.
TV ; I don't believe it's distemper. Hard to tell yet but it's very likely something related to chicken bones.
Danson ; Well~~
TV ; What's wrong with Sophia? Is she healthy?
Danson ; Sophia looks healthy so far but her nose seems a bit dryer, a bit less energy. Sometimes her stool seems quiet normal but she got some black stool periodically. The black stool is just a layer of black thing cover from the outside. And I've got the sample with me here. This sample I collected in lunch time and leave it in refrigerator right away. Five hour from now.
TV ; I'm going to bring Sophia in for some test. The assistant will bring she back to you later.
Danson ; Thanks Doctor.

............. ...............

Assistant ; Hi, everything's done. Sophia is in Perfect health without any issues found.
Danson ; Really? Would you mind to ask the Vet again if she's sure Sophia she's not infected by distemper? (I'm very glad but getting little confused.)
Assistant back ; Yes, the doctor say she's 100% sure Sophia was not infected by distemper. If you still worry, we can send samples to the lab and it takes two days for the result.
Danson ; Yes, sure. I believe she's in perfect health but please send her sample to the lab and do as many test as you can. I just wanted to prove something.
Assistant ; No problem. We'll contact you in two days and give you the result.

Sophia was vaccinated in the Third Vet's clinic.

So....hum.... I've got the final result on March,02,2013 . Sophia is in perfect health.

Last edited by Danson; March 4th, 2013 at 10:25 PM.
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  #15  
Old March 4th, 2013, 10:43 AM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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Hi, Danson. So sorry for your loss, but so happy that Sophia is in perfect health.

I do think that the only way you'd be able to determine Princess's cause of death for sure would be to have a necropsy (autopsy) done.

There are conditions that cause the symptoms you saw that can't be detected by xrays or even bloodwork. We had a setter, Evan, who came down with acute inflammatory bowel disease when he was 2. The onset was sudden and severe. He became lethargic, stopped eating, developed severe diarrhea and had tarry black stools. We were lucky enough to have a vet that referred us to the Veterinary Teaching Hospital 100 miles away and also fortunate that the VTH would take us immediately on an emergency basis. Had we not made the trip and gotten the diagnosis, Evan would not have made it through the weekend until the next regular appointment there. Had he gone untreated, he likely would have died within a week from the onset.

IBD does not show on xrays and unless you know what to look for, initially causes only subtle changes in bloodwork. The bloodwork shows the dehydration, but not much directly stemming from the IBD. And even as it was, jumping to diagnose the symptoms immediately and getting to VTH as fast as possible, it was still very touch-and-go after diagnosis before the treatments began to work.

I'm not saying that's what Princess had--what I'm saying is that it could have been any number of underlying causes other than a lodged chicken bone or distemper, and even if she'd been diagnosed for sure, she might still have died. It took 5 days for Evan's diagnosis to be made--and it took an intestinal punch biopsy to find the IBD. So there's probably nothing any vet could have done for you in one day to make her better.

I know how pinpointing a cause would be comforting, but likely you'll never know for sure. I hope your happy memories of Princess eventually bring you comfort and some peace of mind. She was loved, and she knew it, and that was a wonderful gift to give her.
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  #16  
Old March 4th, 2013, 05:58 PM
Danson Danson is offline
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Appreciate

Never heard of it. I checked some details about IBD online and I think this could very likely the case too. Some species as terriers, shar-peis and German shepherds are all prone to IBD.
Your comment is extremely valuable. Thank you hazelrunpack.
I shall dig deeper and read more article with peritonitis IBD tonight.
Thank you again.
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  #17  
Old March 5th, 2013, 10:22 PM
mittens1997 mittens1997 is offline
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I am so very sorry for your loss, i know how hard it can be. If you find anything out from an autopsy please get back to us.
And i am so relieved to hear that your other dog does not have distemper,

As a word of advice, Here's a list of food items that can harm and possibly kill your dogs in the future: since it's always good to know.

Avocado, Alcohol, Onions, Garlic, any caffeine product, grapes, raisins, gum, dairy products, macadamia nuts, candy, chocolate, fat trimmings, peaches, plums, raw eggs, raw meat, fish, salty foods(i.e chips, pretzels), sugary foods and drinks, yeast dough, and bones. Bone's can easily be choked on, and can shred in their stomach.

Again, i am so very sorry for your loss, and my heart goes out to you and your family.
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  #18  
Old March 10th, 2013, 06:33 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I am so very sorry for your loss.

You will never know, and that will be difficult, but you will honor your dog by learning and always remembering.

The black stools is very clearly an internal bleeding issue. You said she did not eat much at night, she may very well have had problems unrelated to the chicken bone. For example, GSDs are very susceptible to a cancer called hemangiosarcoma, and they have internal bleeding which may go unnoticed, until the end where they start bleeding out. This is what my GSD died of.

GSDs are also very prone infection as a breed, wo an intestinal infection is also suspect.

After no food, and maybe toxins affecting the body and brain from either infection or cancer or the body shutting down, that may mimic symptoms like you describe, as can lesions in the brain, but that wouldn't address the bleeding internally.

The chicken bone, you didn't mention if it was cooked or raw. Cooked bones can splinter, nearly impossible to say if it had anything to do with this, though maybe there was a bowel perforation.

It's a tragic loss, please be kind to yourself, she would not want you to hurt as you do. Remember her, and honor her by uing these lessons to better care for your next animals, that is about the bet that we can do.
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Old March 10th, 2013, 06:35 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I should add, I know of a GSD who recently died. The stomach was full of fluid and some blood, they thought bowel perforation. During urgery, they found the cancer, another GSD succumbed to hemangiosarcoma
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  #20  
Old March 13th, 2013, 05:41 AM
minmin12 minmin12 is offline
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Danson

Sometimes I sit in my room after a long difficult day and just think...I let my mind meander and chase fleeting thoughts on gossamer wings. I dive and soar through my recollections of moments. Some are sweet or joyful. They uplift me and make me feel as though I am really flying...whoosh! I can almost feel the wind against my face. Others touch the places inside that are still bruised and hurt. They're the ones that spring up suddenly and with no warning; like a sharp turn on that tailwind I am riding. Tonight I sat down for my journey. I never thought my wanderings would ever take me to the special place I saw tonight.
As I glanced at the calendar I couldn't help but notice how quickly the time has passed. Being a methodical person, it was a natural course that I would take a quick look back and make a brief tally or my victories and losses this year. The losses came to mind first and were the first of three legs in this nights adventure. I could feel the tears well up in my eyes as my most recent upheaval flashed before my eyes. I wondered if I would ever feel safe again; if I would ever feel secure in the health of my family. Thinking about all we have been through I suddenly had the inclination to reach down to my right, where Princess always rested, and lay my hand on her head like I've done so many times before.She would lay quietly; sometimes I think she actually took those little flights of fancy with me. I reached for her...but tonight she wasn't there. So this time I made my journey alone...or did I?
Drifting down that misty road I became aware of a warm familiar feeling...a feeling of being safe. I couldn't see anyone there, but I knew Princess was there; I could feel her. It was so natural to talk to her and tell her how much I've miss her. I asked her if she was ok...if she was happy. I expected this to be a painful catharsis, but it turned out to be a celebration of the love we share with our once in a lifetime companions. "I'm fine..really I am. We all are. Our days are fill with games, chasing squirrels and anything else that comes along. I like the puppies best of all. They come here like little lost children but immediately catch sight of the bridge and all the bridgekeepers and their little hearts are light once more" "Are you ever lonely or frightened? Who takes care of you if you’re sick?" I asked. "Oh mommy we never get sick here. And there is never anything frightening. Sometimes we go to the Bridge and watch as some moms and dads come to meet their bridgekids. Its always such a wonderful thing. Each day brings another happy reunion and we celebrate together. We get visits every once in a while from humans who don't have a bridgekid of their own but love animals; or from children who never had a chance to have pets. Those are my favorite visitors! At night we count stars and tell stories about our lives with you and the fun times we had" Princess's voice conveyed such bliss that I felt happy for her.
"Our visit will be over soon, but I want you to deliver this message to our humans back home. Please tell them that our happiness can only be complete if we can look down to them and see smiles on their faces when they think of us because then we will know they *understand*" I told her that at this time of year we can't help but think of our bridgekids and miss them perhaps a little more. I told her how I wished he had had one more Merry Christmas...or Happy New Year. "We have very Merry Christmas' here! All the children, puppies, dogs, cats ... just everybody who is not there with you is here with us! You know what? We even get to help make some of that holiday magic you feel. We are still with you if you would just see us. I was your heartdog; but here we are everyone's." Suddenly it became so clear to me. Finally I understood. They are now a part of that light from which all good things flow. They are the hush we hear in the night after a snowfall; the sweet scent after a summer storm. They are the beauty we see each Spring when the hills are bathed in hues of red, yellow and blue on a bed of green. They are the warmth we feel from the sun touching our skin. They are all things eternal. The coldest of Winters will give way to Spring which in turn will step aside as Summer awakens from her sleep. Now they are part of this cycle once more.
My journey is coming to its conclusion as I feel the gentle but steady pull of reality. The treasure I have brought back with me is one to share with you. But I said there were three legs of this journey. Now that I have revisited and given some closure to things in the past, its time to look forward to the future. Here's hoping that peace, acceptance and fond memories light our journey like little footlights in the dark. And when the final steps are taken, may we all rejoice in seeing our own bridgekids as their turn comes to reunite amidst the cheers and tears of joy. My deepest condolences Princess
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Old March 13th, 2013, 05:48 AM
minmin12 minmin12 is offline
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Danson

I too lost my beloved Zorba. I still have difficulty about the what if I did this or done that. I have to believe and truly this is hard but I did what I could do the best. Zorba knew that mommy loved him his passing is hard. Now he is no longer in pain and romping around in the Heaven playing as if he were a child again. It is impossible to forget but we must try to forgive our selves we have no control. My heart reaches out to you with everything that I could possibly offer from a distance
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