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  #1  
Old June 21st, 2012, 12:34 AM
ydono ydono is offline
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Exclamation wet food for kitten with kidney problems

Hi. I've been reading through the forum topics regarding this same topic, but I thought it might be easier to start off with a fresh post.

We just found out our 12 yr old cat has kidney issues (BUM and creatine levels high). Our vet suggested the terrible prescription foods such as Hills, Royal Cainin, etc. Our cat is currently on blue buffalo and we sure would hate to move her to those nasty brand names - especially because she seems to have food sensititives.

I've been reading the threads on this forum and people are saying that protein is OK just so the phosphorus and sodium levels are low. But my understanding is that phosphorous is protein. So, I'm confused by that. Folks have suggested a variety of quality wet protein foods. I've contacted some of quality wet food manufacturers and here are a few responses:


From Blue Buffalo:
> Thank you for taking the time to contact BLUE.
>
> BLUE is a maintenance diet and in many cases may not be the right diet for
> pets with medical issues. In most cases, a prescription diet is the way to
> go because they can offer certain levels of particular things that over
> the counter maintenance diets can not.

From natura Oganic:
Thank you for contacting Natura Pet Products. Kidney disease is common among both dogs and cats. The veterinarian will likely recommend that the pet be placed on a therapeutic veterinary food. Veterinary therapeutic renal foods have modified nutrient levels to address the specific needs of pets with renal disease. One of the most important modifications is a reduction in phosphorus content. The level of phosphorus restriction recommended for pets with renal disease is below the minimum AAFCO requirement; therefore, no over the counter food (from Natura or any other pet food company) is appropriate for pets with kidney disease.

This was the most promising - from Natural Balance:
Thank you for contacting Natural Balance and for your interest in our products. Please know that we do not have any formulas that are geared towards cats with specific conditions such as kidney disease. All of our products meet the AAFCO nutrient guidelines for an all life stage product, and our formulas are completely balanced diets for normal healthy pets. It is always best to consult with your vet about the specific nutrient requirements of your pet prior to feeding any of our formulas.

With that said, our canned cat products will range in phosphorus from 0.24%-0.46% on an As Fed Basis (with Green Pea & Duck and Green Pea & Chicken formulas being the lowest). Our dry cat product range in phosphorus from 0.92%-1.34% on an As-Fed Basis, with our Green Pea & Duck formulas being the lowest.

Please know that these As-Fed Values are based on our typical (average) analysis for the products, so natural variation can and does occur. If you have any further questions please let me know. Have a good day!




Reason for this post? I'd love to hear from anyone who has had experience (2-5yrs of use with your cat who has kidney issues) with a non-prescription wet cat food, that actually has protein and not carbs. If you could give me your feedback for the following questions:

- Has it worked well (meaning - have the BUM and creatine (sp?) levels stopped increasing and the cat is happy, active, eating and not loosing muscle)?

- What were your cat's numbers before you started, how long has it been, and what are the numbers now? (ya know - approximates)

- What is the brand name, flavor, etc., and what the phosphorous and sodium levels?

- Did you give extra supplements of any kind such as Vitamin B or Renafood?


Thanks so much to anyone who responds to this. Sorry for starting a new thread but I tend to get too confused and loose track of important information as I'm reading through really long threads (even the summary one for me got to be too long).

Our Dana appreciates it too!

yvonne
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  #2  
Old June 22nd, 2012, 03:25 AM
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growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ydono View Post
Reason for this post? I'd love to hear from anyone who has had experience (2-5yrs of use with your cat who has kidney issues) with a non-prescription wet cat food, that actually has protein and not carbs. If you could give me your feedback for the following questions:

- Has it worked well (meaning - have the BUM and creatine (sp?) levels stopped increasing and the cat is happy, active, eating and not loosing muscle)?

- What were your cat's numbers before you started, how long has it been, and what are the numbers now? (ya know - approximates)

- What is the brand name, flavor, etc., and what the phosphorous and sodium levels?

- Did you give extra supplements of any kind such as Vitamin B or Renafood?


Thanks so much to anyone who responds to this. Sorry for starting a new thread but I tend to get too confused and loose track of important information as I'm reading through really long threads (even the summary one for me got to be too long)
By Nature Organics Turkey & Turkey Liver, Chicken & Chicken Liver, Turkey & Chicken, Chicken & Mackerel, Beef & Beef Liver

Innova Flex Beef & Barley Stew
Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey

Felidae Platinum
Felidae Cat & Kitten
Felidae Grain Free

Merricks Before Grain 96% Beef
Merricks Before Grain 96% Turkey

Merricks Cowboy Cookout
Merricks Thanksgiving Day Dinner

Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Chicken
Halo Spots Stew Wholesome Turkey

Wellness Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Beef & Salmon, Kitten, Wellness Core Chicken Turkey & Chicken Liver (other flavours are too high in phos)

Holistic Select Turkey & Barley
Holistic Select Duck & Chicken

Many more choices listed here http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food...od_data_tables

Early Stage Kidney Failure in Cat
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  #3  
Old June 25th, 2012, 02:45 AM
ydono ydono is offline
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Thank you for your reply. I have just a few questions if you have a moment to answer ----

1 - The Hills and other renal support vet foods are all well under 1.00% phosphorous. I'm wondering why we're using 1.00% as the high for phosphorous in the foods we're looking at. Hills, for example, I believe is at .35%. 1% seems so much higher than that.

2 - When we went to the vet, she gave our cat (Dana) a vitamin B shot and there was a huge differencein her behavior. I've also read that Vitamin B should be in the food she eats. Do you know how much of it should be in the food?

3 - Also regarding the supplement Renafood and Feline Renal Support that everyone talks about giving our cats with kidney issues - the phosphorous levels are really high. I do not understand why that isn't bad...

Thank you so much for taking the time to answer these questions. Very kind of you.
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Old July 3rd, 2012, 09:58 PM
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growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
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Sorry I was unable to respond sooner

Quote:
Originally Posted by ydono View Post
1 - The Hills and other renal support vet foods are all well under 1.00% phosphorous. I'm wondering why we're using 1.00% as the high for phosphorous in the foods we're looking at. Hills, for example, I believe is at .35%. 1% seems so much higher than that.
The issue with looking as phos percentages on labels is ~ what are you looking at? Are you comparing "as fed" values to "dry matter" (all moisture removed) values?

In order to accurately compare protein/phos/sodium etc values in foods the value of moisture must be removed since not all foods contain the same amount of moisture. Basically you want to compare the dry weight of the ingredients across different foods before moisture is added. (Think of dry rice compared to cooked rice - you can't compare the weight/nutrient values because moisture is added to one of them)

When you are looking at the prescription diets in particular, with super low phos values have a look at the ingredients - where's the meat? Cats are carnivores they eat/need/love meat, if you remove most/all of the real meat content of a food what's left to tempt them to eat it?

Cat's will try something if it smells good, after that the food is assessed based on taste. If they don't recognize it as food they won't eat it.

If a food has dry matter phos of 0.35% but the cat refuses to eat it ~ what good will that food do the cat? If the only food the cat will eat has a dry matter phos content of .90% that food is the better choice because the cat is actually eating it.

A lot of CRF cats lose weight because they refuse to eat.

The 1% dry matter phos amount is more an upper limit - ie don't go above this, obviously you want lower phos amount without sacrificing nutritional value of the food. It's also based a bit on protein levels when you significantly reduce the protein level of the food the phos content will drop accordingly. Low protein diet theory is outdated for CRF cats they still need a moderate protein amount to sustain muscle mass. If you are feeding high quality protein the phos content is not as high as cheaply sourced protein.

If your cat will eat the prescription food and you are comfortable with the ingredients in it then by all means. It would be advisable however to have a variety of foods that fall under the 1% range so your cat doesn't get stuck on one food and refuse to eat anything else, in case the vet/store is out of stock when you need food etc.

This page has a lot of info on phos: http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ydono View Post
2 - When we went to the vet, she gave our cat (Dana) a vitamin B shot and there was a huge differencein her behavior. I've also read that Vitamin B should be in the food she eats. Do you know how much of it should be in the food?
I don't have first hand experience treating with Vit B on it's own, as my cat never needed extra supplementation with it, she was however on a cat multi-vitamin. I would always consult with the vet before adding Vitamins as too much can be as harmful as not enough. There is a lot of info on this site here: http://www.felinecrf.org/vitamin_b.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by ydono View Post
3 - Also regarding the supplement Renafood and Feline Renal Support that everyone talks about giving our cats with kidney issues - the phosphorous levels are really high. I do not understand why that isn't bad...
Some agree and some disagree with giving Renafood or Feline Renal Support as there is phosphorus content, but as with phos content in the food the body still needs some amount of phos as it is an essential nutrient. The thinking behind these supplements is providing the kidney organ cells will promote/sustain the cats organ function. Much like feeding fresh hormone-free raw lamb kidney to the cats.

If you are not comfortable with the amount of phos in any supplement/food then by all means do not give it to your cat ~ the methods to treat your cat ultimately is your decision, not mine/the vet/anyone else
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  #5  
Old July 11th, 2012, 09:16 PM
ydono ydono is offline
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results

thanks for all your info. We settled in on Evo wet and not giving the reno supplement.

Our vet has switched gears and says that she doesn't feel Dana's CREA and BUN numbers are high enough to warrant the amount of weight loss she has experienced. We are now needing to treat her for cancer which brings on a whole new set of questions.

Perhaps a new post....

thanks again.
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