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  #1  
Old February 4th, 2013, 07:43 PM
crazee4critterz crazee4critterz is offline
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Vet with Nutritional Expertise?

(My apologies if this topic has been dealt with.) Does anyone but me find the fact that vets with years of training do not seem to have much knowledge about animal nutrition -- I mean, other than which commercial pet food, sold on their premises, they should promote?!

As a recent advocate of BARF diet, I am shocked that when I tried to find a vet who had a specialty in animal nutrition, I just couldn't. There are several with "holistic" specialties in the Toronto area but really, nobody states outright that they specialize in nutrition. My own vet knows nothing except that he was quick to add that we can all get food poisoning from dealing with raw meat...I mean, how do WE first get our own meat? It's raw until we cook it, isn't it? We keep our counters clean, don't we? I don't get this argument. What are they so afraid of?

To my mind, there are so many people now becoming familiar with the idea of biologically appropriate diets, that veterinary practices ought to be up on this issue for the sake of animal health and proper regulation of the raw diet industry. After all, how do we know what we're buying when we purchase raw ourselves? How do we know the right proportions of each ingredient?

I've heard and read different theories about supplements vs. no supplements; adding vegs and fruits vs. none; tripe and offal -- how much or how little? All of these issues are still up for grabs, as far as I'm concerned. I would just like to know whose word one can trust and even more...where can I find a vet who knows ANYTHING about this subject other than..."You can get food poisoning, ya know!..."! This is 2013, after all! Geesh!
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  #2  
Old February 4th, 2013, 09:57 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazee4critterz View Post
(My apologies if this topic has been dealt with.) Does anyone but me find the fact that vets with years of training do not seem to have much knowledge about animal nutrition -- I mean, other than which commercial pet food, sold on their premises, they should promote?!

As a recent advocate of BARF diet, I am shocked that when I tried to find a vet who had a specialty in animal nutrition, I just couldn't. There are several with "holistic" specialties in the Toronto area but really, nobody states outright that they specialize in nutrition. My own vet knows nothing except that he was quick to add that we can all get food poisoning from dealing with raw meat...I mean, how do WE first get our own meat? It's raw until we cook it, isn't it? We keep our counters clean, don't we? I don't get this argument. What are they so afraid of?

To my mind, there are so many people now becoming familiar with the idea of biologically appropriate diets, that veterinary practices ought to be up on this issue for the sake of animal health and proper regulation of the raw diet industry. After all, how do we know what we're buying when we purchase raw ourselves? How do we know the right proportions of each ingredient?

I've heard and read different theories about supplements vs. no supplements; adding vegs and fruits vs. none; tripe and offal -- how much or how little? All of these issues are still up for grabs, as far as I'm concerned. I would just like to know whose word one can trust and even more...where can I find a vet who knows ANYTHING about this subject other than..."You can get food poisoning, ya know!..."! This is 2013, after all! Geesh!
This was just brought up in Feb. TJT . We where talking about vets not knowing about animal nutrition . Maybe a holistic vet would know more about
animal nutrition . One of the vet my dog saw told me she did not know a lot about how to cook homemade dog food. It is frustrating going to a vet and not getting the anwers you want. And vets do not always agree with one another so this made it harder to know who listen to.
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  #3  
Old February 5th, 2013, 05:38 AM
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cassblonde cassblonde is offline
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Originally Posted by crazee4critterz View Post
To my mind, there are so many people now becoming familiar with the idea of biologically appropriate diets, that veterinary practices ought to be up on this issue for the sake of animal health and proper regulation of the raw diet industry. After all, how do we know what we're buying when we purchase raw ourselves? How do we know the right proportions of each ingredient?

I've heard and read different theories about supplements vs. no supplements; adding vegs and fruits vs. none; tripe and offal -- how much or how little?
I think you're still getting hung up on exactness and perfection from this section of your post. I raw feed and have for over 5 years my dogs are in great shape, very healthy and happy. In the end that is all you really have to judge your pet's health by unless you want to have blood work and x-rays and everything done every year to make sure.

We don't measure and proportion our own or our children's food(at least not so exactly) we go for balance over time and just enjoy our food. Once you take that same approach with your pets you'll feel a lot better.

A lot of the meat my dogs eat come from the same stores that I buy meat for my family(I consider anything under $2/lb possible dog meat) the rest I buy from a supplier that I trust. Don't forget though that even OUR food industry makes mistakes(remember the XL Meats recalls?) so regulation can be a false comfort(don't forget the poison pet foods back in 2007).

A holistic vet should be looking at everything including diet but certainly call and ask otherwise make it clear to your vet you feed raw and if they have an issue with it have them put a "do not discuss diet" on your pets files. That's what my vet did when I came down a bit hard on one of the staff over what I was feeding my now 4 year old Shih Tzu when he was a puppy. I have my proof in my dogs' health that I am doing the right thing.
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Old February 5th, 2013, 06:05 AM
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marko marko is offline
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If I recall some conversations with veterinary students they receive very very little training in nutrition. So although it's easy to blame the vets....it does not make sense to blame someone for knowledge that they don't have or were never taught by the powers that regulate their schooling. Actually.... we did a podcast on this some years ago. Feel free to take a listen. http://www.pets.ca/blog/pet-podcast/...et-podcast-34/

There are a number of members on our forum that have done their own research on nutrition and RAW feeding and their pets seem to be thriving. They also like to share what they have learned with others so feel free of course to ask questions.

and welcome to the forum!
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Old March 7th, 2013, 04:45 PM
marcushaw marcushaw is offline
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I dont understand why people are asking Vets about Dog Nutrition !?! Vets are Generalist Doctors for animals. Since when do doctors know anything about Nutrition that anyone else knows about, they are not Nutritionist or Dietisians.

Vets for animals = Doctors for humans.

They teach as much about nutrition in Vet university than to Doctors in University, which is very little.

Vets are not Nutritionist !! stop asking them for advice.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 05:18 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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Originally Posted by marcushaw View Post
I dont understand why people are asking Vets about Dog Nutrition !?! Vets are Generalist Doctors for animals. Since when do doctors know anything about Nutrition that anyone else knows about, they are not Nutritionist or Dietisians.

Vets for animals = Doctors for humans.

They teach as much about nutrition in Vet university than to Doctors in University, which is very little.

Vets are not Nutritionist !! stop asking them for advice.
I had better luck talking to someone at a natural pet store when I wanted to know about my dog nutrition.
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Old March 7th, 2013, 08:07 PM
Digston Digston is offline
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Veterinary Technologists can specialize in nutrition. Perhaps check with your local clinics if they have/know a technician who has specialized in this field
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Old March 8th, 2013, 03:32 PM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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no i disagree I would expect my vet to advise me on nutirtion If I dint love my vet so much i wuold still be searching for one and i personally thonk it is reprehensivle that vets do not know squat about nutrtion for the most part
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Old March 8th, 2013, 06:46 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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no i disagree I would expect my vet to advise me on nutirtion If I dint love my vet so much i wuold still be searching for one and i personally thonk it is reprehensivle that vets do not know squat about nutrtion for the most part
Doctors are the same they do not know everything , that is why there are nutritionists. A holistic vet would know more about nutrition for pets . It does cost more to see one .
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Old March 9th, 2013, 07:29 AM
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I disagree Jim....you may well expect them to advise you, but if their knowledge on the topic is sparse the info you will receive... will be sparse. It might be loads more than a layperson would know...but surprisingly LESS than many members on our board who have learned about nutrition themselves through their own thorough research.

It would be nice if vets did know more about nutrition, but you can't blame them for what they were not taught in school. The comparison with human medicine is bang on. I would not expect my family doctor to know loads about nutrition, dermatology, endocrinology etc.

If vets knew all the sub-specialities in depth, regular vet school would be more like 10-15 years.
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Old March 9th, 2013, 10:37 AM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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And the doctors and vets would be in debt for years and it would cost us a lot more to see a doctor. It cost money to go to medical collage and learning about nutrition will cost more. And that cost will be past on to us.
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Old March 14th, 2013, 10:11 AM
marcushaw marcushaw is offline
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happy to hear people think the same as me.

Ive research the Université de Montreal and its courses for vets, and you can have access to the classes they have. I found 2 related to nutrition.
Ive also had a girlfriend in the past that did CEGEP (college) for Vet Tech, and had if I remember well 2 classes in 3 years.

And guess what the best part is, Cegep and University nutrition classes are sponsored and given by who ??? Dr.Hills...why? because they are the only that have '' research'' to backup these classes.

Talk about conflict of interest.....
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Old March 14th, 2013, 02:55 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is online now
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Originally Posted by marcushaw View Post
happy to hear people think the same as me.

Ive research the Université de Montreal and its courses for vets, and you can have access to the classes they have. I found 2 related to nutrition.
Ive also had a girlfriend in the past that did CEGEP (college) for Vet Tech, and had if I remember well 2 classes in 3 years.

And guess what the best part is, Cegep and University nutrition classes are sponsored and given by who ??? Dr.Hills...why? because they are the only that have '' research'' to backup these classes.

Talk about conflict of interest.....
One of the vet that treated my dog told me that she only knew about Hill dog food as they helped pay her cost for vet collage. Another vet told that she think Hill dog food is not very good.
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Old March 15th, 2013, 10:37 AM
marcushaw marcushaw is offline
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Well I know for a fact that Cegep of Sherbrook in Quebec, thats exactly who sponsors de classes. Like I said, the reason being, they are the only ones doing ''research'' on dog food and nutrition.
I also have a childhood friend that graduated as Vet at Guelph uni in Ontario, I could ask her who gave the classes, but she also confirmed they had very minimal knowledge on Nutrition.

This is how research works for almost ANYTHING in life.
Because research costs alot of money (100 of thousands), no one does it for fun or personal satisfaction. They research to have results and those results Must payback the research and make money. (dont forget we live in a capitalist world). Thats why Pharmaceuticals is HUGE. They pay huge dollars for research, but man do they ever make it back.

Kibbles are the equivelent of pharma pills. They have reps going around Veternarie clinics trying to sell them their food as the best '' Vet expensive food''. Another of my friends works as a vet tec here in Ileperrot,Qc tho she did not study as a tech, but told me that all these companies, Hills, Royal canin etc come in with reps and tries to sell their food because of this and this study showing that this and this ingredient is important. Shes not into Raw Food, but she admits they mostly all contradict themselves. One says one ingredient is good, and the other says its not. Shes cocky, so she has fun with them askings lots of questions.
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