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Old April 29th, 2012, 04:10 AM
kimouette kimouette is offline
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Obese dog with Wobbler syndrome

My 8 year-old Bernese Mountain Dog has been diagnosed with Wobbler Syndrom. He has to take Gabapentin and Dexamethazon everyday and definately needs to lose weight!!

When he got diagnosed, my vet put him on PurinaOM he did lose a little bit of weight, but then he gained it all back plus and extra 5lbs!. Two weeks ago I switched him to Oven Baked Tradition (senior formula), and feed him the recommended portion for the IDEAL WEIGHT, but he still doesn't lose a pound after 14 days!

I never give him treats and he eats 2 times a day.

Of course with a healthy people would just suggest me too find him a high protein healthy food and force him to do a lot of exercise, but with this damn Wobbler syndrome everything normally healthy for a dog becomes dangerous : high protein will "give more work" to his liver while his hepatic results are already too high, and exercise, well of course it hurts him and makes his symptom worse.

I am so desperate, any advise, reference, help or testimonial would be very appreciated!
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Old April 29th, 2012, 10:51 AM
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pbpatti pbpatti is offline
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Welcome, sorry that it is under such circumstances that you have found us. I do not know alot about Wobblers except that it is a horrible diseace sp??? Regarding food, my Chocolate Labs ideal weight is 50 lbs so that is what I feed her, so if your dog should be ?75 lb go by that amount...remember I am not a vet and this is what I do....IMO...

Has your Vet given you any information on what you need to do for your dog to lose weight? There should be more knowledgeable people coming by to help.

Do you have any pictures???????
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Old April 30th, 2012, 12:08 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimouette View Post
.....Of course with a healthy people would just suggest me too find him a high protein healthy food and force him to do a lot of exercise, but with this damn Wobbler syndrome everything normally healthy for a dog becomes dangerous : high protein will "give more work" to his liver while his hepatic results are already too high, and exercise, well of course it hurts him and makes his symptom worse.....
Unless there is the liver damage which induces head pressing and confusion after a high protein meal, the liver needs high quality, high protein in order to regenerate, it is not supposed to have low protein.

I would opt for an Atkins type diet for weight loss and overall health, be it raw or homecooked.

I am a big fan of Country Life's Liver Support Factors for high liver values.

There is another Wobbler's post on the forum right now, just pointing it out in case you haven't seen it.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 12:54 AM
kimouette kimouette is offline
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Quote:
so if your dog should be ?75 lb go by that amount..
That is exactly what I do. He actually weight 113lb but should weight 90lb, so I feed him the amount a 90lb dog should eat.

Quote:
Has your Vet given you any information on what you need to do for your dog to lose weight? There should be more knowledgeable people coming by to help.
I hate to say this, but my vet doesn't know much about food. She did put my dog on Purina OM which is a bunch of corn, glutten and other craps all mixed up together.
Quote:
Unless there is the liver damage which induces head pressing and confusion after a high protein meal, the liver needs high quality, high protein in order to regenerate, it is not supposed to have low protein.
Don't ask me to wait for some extreme symptoms like head pressing and confusion after a meal before admitting he has liver damage! His hepatic blood results are high: ALT, ALKP, GGT and CCMH are incredibly high right now... probably all caused by that dexamethasone and Gabapentin.

Otherwise I really wish I could take your words for granted when you say that my dog shouldn't be eating low protein food (cuz honnestly I wish I could cook him some healthy food!). But look at these :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobbler...ttinger_1995-3
Quote:
This narrowing of the canal is related to degeneration of the dorsal articular facets and subsequent thickening of the associated joint capsules and ligaments.[1] A high protein diet may contribute to its development.[4] In middle aged and older dogs such as Dobermans, intervertebral disc disease leads to bulging of the disc or herniation of the disc contents, and the spinal cord is compressed.

http://dawn-m-smith.suite101.com/und...yndrome-a73734
Quote:
While genetic factors likely play a role in the development of this Wobbler’s Syndrome in dogs, excess dietary calcium and protein appear to contribute to cervical spondylopathy as well. In cases where the paralysis is progressive the prognosis may be guarded.
http://www.ehow.com/way_5672167_canine-diet-wobblers-
disease.html#ixzz1tUzdlAgD
Quote:
Because the disease is predominantly in certain breeds, and in some lines in those breeds, it is assumed there is a genetic factor to Wobblers syndrome. However genetics is not the only factor. Bruce R. Wittels, D.V.M., states that high protein is a contributing factor to the development of this disease. Studies, including one by Mark Secor, D.V.M., found that a diet with high protein, calcium, and phosphorus may cause abnormal bone growth. Protein is an issue both for the protein and that it contains phosphorus. The head weight and how the dog stands may also be a factor.
http://www.vetinfo.com/wobblers-syndrome-in-dogs.html#b
Quote:
Veterinarians recommend that levels of protein in your dog's diet should not exceed 24% if you suspect he might be at risk for Wobblers Syndrome.
http://www.greatdanelady.com/article...dr_wittles.htm
Quote:
The IMMEDIATE thing to do is to reduce the protein level of the diet. A protein level not to exceed 22-24% should be fed.
I dont want to take any risks and it is sooooooo complicated to tell what is good or bad for him! All I'm sure of, is that he MUST lose some weight and he MUST NOT do normal exercise, he has to stay as steady as possible and avoid all kind of efforts.
And from there I have all these doubts about the food he should receive.

Can I maybe give him home-made food that would be low protein (around 22%), low fat (I dont want him to become fatter), with a good amount of fiber (but not too much carbohydrates) and still have all the required vitamins and minerals a dog should receive? Is it possible to do that? And if so, where could I find a good and well explained recipe.

Quote:
I would opt for an Atkins type diet for weight loss and overall health, be it raw or homecooked.
I agree with the low-carb aspect of Atkins diet, but we're talking about a diet for humans, not for dogs!

Quote:
I am a big fan of Country Life's Liver Support Factors for high liver values.
Again, this is meant for humans... maybe it's suitable for dogs too, but for the liver damage caused by the meds, I already give my dog some milk thistle.

Quote:
There is another Wobbler's post on the forum right now, just pointing it out in case you haven't seen it.
Ni I haven't seen it, and right now the search engine doesn't seem to work. I'll do a research later today and ty to find that post!
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Old April 30th, 2012, 08:06 AM
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pbpatti pbpatti is offline
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If you are interested in feeding raw or home cooked check out the threads here for some good information. Is there a Vet College near you that may have some other advice for you? It is really difficult when your furbabies are hurting. I wish you all the best in your research. patti
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Old April 30th, 2012, 02:25 PM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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I' sorry you're having such a difficult time with your furbaby. Have you looked at The Honest Kitchen? It's a dehydrated raw. If you opt for lower protein, you're going to have higher carbs, there's no getting around that. But the type of carbs can make a huge difference. They make several different varities ranging from 21% protein which is this one:

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/force/

to over 35% which is this one:

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/zeal/


The one I feed is a base mix of veggies/fruits and you add your own protein, which is really good for dogs who have food allergies/intolerances like my boy:

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/products/preference/

It's a very healthy food with no fillers or artificial anything. It uses antibiotic and hormone free free proteins and organic/free trade fruits/veggies. It's a bit expensive, but it can save you money in the long run on vet bills. One thing you will notice is that they "poo" more often. I discussed this with my holistic vet and he isn't concerned. He said it's due to a high fibre content and isn't a bad thing. It's also very easy... you just add water and let it set for about 5-10 minutes to rehydrate, then feed

Good luck with your boy!!
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Old April 30th, 2012, 03:08 PM
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Rgeurts Rgeurts is offline
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One more thing... concerning the liver, you said you are giving Milk Thistle. Is it just plain Milk Thistle? Or is it a comination with SAM-e? If not, Denamarin is great for helping to keep the liver values in check while on the meds. Denamarin is a combination of Milk Thistle and SAM-e together. If you can't get Denamarin where you are, you can go to any good health food store and pick the SAM-e and just give it with the Milk Thistle.
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"Obey my dog!" - Mugatu

"Who can believe that there is no soul behind those luminous eyes!" ~ Theophile Gautier


"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old April 30th, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Marty11 Marty11 is offline
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I know nothing about this disease, however I am not a fan of seniors kibble. They just add more useless fillers. I would feed a regular good grain and protein based food like Acana "Lamb and Apple" (lower protein than Orijen) or something similar.
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Old April 30th, 2012, 11:59 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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http://personalpages.tds.net/~jcole/...l#delilahstory

Btw, Country Life's LSF does so much better compared to MT..., and often samee.
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