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  #1  
Old January 29th, 2012, 08:54 PM
dawgonedaze dawgonedaze is offline
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Fraudulent Rescues in Manitoba

I am a brand new member from Manitoba. I breed a specialty line of small Poodles. Many of of my babies are ordered long before they are born. As a Senior, I want to prepare for the coming years, and am carefully/reluctantly rehoming some of my beloved pets. Yes, I breed, but my Poodles are my family, they are not garbage to be thrown out when I am done with them.

To make a long story short, last week I had 4 of my dear babies stolen. I'll try to be brief, but basically I am searching to try and find out if there are others who have been conned by this Manitoba Rescue.

In a nutshell, a dear and highly respected friend of mine (a physician) referred a woman to me, who claimed to have loving homes for some of my dogs I wished to rehome.My friend strongly urged me to listen to this woman whom she had referred, as she felt she was very dedicated to animals and had access to finding wonderful homes.

I was very specific in what I wanted for each dog, this woman claimed to have owners that matched my requirements exactly. Not once in the transactions did she mention the Rescue with whom she was associated. I had no idea I was dealing with a Rescue.

I groomed up the 4 dogs that were leaving, bath, fresh clip, bows, nail polish, even the boys had glitter on their nails, perfume, each one left with a jacket. As hard as it was to say goodbye, she had me convinced that with the individual homes she had found, they would be very happy. The agreement was, that if things did not work, on either end, my dogs would be returned to me. She said she could not give me their information, but assured me that they would contact me with updates and photos.

Imagine my surprise and heartbreak when I saw their photos posted on the website of this Rescue, each one being sold 'to cover costs of spay & neuter', about $400. For one of the dogs, they even stole a puppy photo from my website and posted it as being my girl, a 2 1/2 year old Miniature Poodle.

I am trying to get my dogs back, but I am dealing with lunatics. I do have their papers, they are Registered with CKC to me as being their legal owner, they are microchipped. The Animal Hospital that has spayed and neutered them, has done so without my permission. I have called them and told them the dogs are stolen, I do have their papers, they do not have permission for surgery, but they have gone ahead with surgeries anyway, and hang up when I call.

In the meanwhile, this Rescue group has threatened me with numerous things, including threats to come in and seize all my Poodles, most of which are Teacups and Tiny Teacups that would not survive without the special care and Teacup knowledge required to care for them.

In order to protect myself and my dogs, I have called the Provincial Vet Department and have asked them to come in to do an Inspection. I hesitate to call the Police until I have this inspection done, as I do not want to risk the possibility of this Rescue having someone come in to seize my dogs, as they have threatened.

In the meanwhile, I am quietly searching for others in the area who may have had this same experience, and also any advice from others would be appreciated. My dogs are my heart and soul. Friends tell me that perhaps I can rest assured thinking they are in loving homes, and perhaps they are. But when I rehome my dogs, I want to know what loving homes they are in, and more importantly, will these loving homes still love them in the future. Or will a life change cause them to dump one of my babies in a shelter, a new boyfriend, a change of lifestyle, a move, any one of a number of things. I want my babies back to be rehomed to my satisfaction.

I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had a similar experience. And please, no blasting about breeding dogs. My dogs are my life, if you don't believe in breeders, everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but there are ways to fight your cause; stealing beloved Pets is not one of them.
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  #2  
Old January 30th, 2012, 07:44 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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This really deserves another thread. But I will answer this quickly to enlighten you on rescue group processes.
#1 - when a reputable rescue takes over the dogs which you GAVE them, they are being responsible btw to sterilize them BEFORE being adopted. To me, this sounds like a responsible thing to do so that these dogs are not farmed out and sold to a broker and/or miller to continue the reproduction of pups. To me, that sounds exactly what a rescue group should do and must do.
#2 - when you hand your dogs over to a rescue group, you have given up all claims to the dog. Therefore these dogs are not stolen. You gave the dogs to them.
#3 - it is reputable rescues policy to have adopters sign an adoption contract. They do home visits to ensure the home is the best for the dog. If not, then potential adopters are turned down flat. Also, should by chance the dog is no longer wanted due to circumstances, the dog is to be returned to the rescue for rehoming. They will then find a home for the dog.
#4 - this is the part where I say for this reason, and if you breed and for whatever reason you stop breeding; it was your responsibility to ensure that all angles were covered. As you did not rehome these dogs yourself, gave them up to a rescue group - then you really have no say at this point as to what they do with the dogs. They can sterlize them, find them new homes, ask for an adoption fee (which is more than fair) and keep in touch with the new families AND they are not obliged to even send you updates and photos.

In a nutshell, you have given up all rights to the dogs.
Find peace in knowing you did the next best thing other than rehoming yourself. I am certain that THEIR dogs are fine and are properly cared for.
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  #3  
Old January 30th, 2012, 08:07 AM
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I totally agree with BenMax. You have no rights to those dogs if you gave them to the rescue. If you really do feel your dogs have been stolen, they you should call the police. I guess I don't understand your hesitation for fear of this rescue taking all your dogs???


It sounds to me that your dogs are in good hands, I wouldn't worry too much.
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:41 AM
dawgonedaze dawgonedaze is offline
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I did not give my dogs to a Rescue group, I could have posted them on the Internet myself. I had never heard of this Rescue group before, I never in a million years would have surrendered my dogs to a Rescue Group. To date, I have rehomed 6 of my dogs to homes that meet my requirements with regards to rehoming. I get constant updates from every one of them, and some even still visit. You are correct in that I did not cover my bases, I mistakenly took the word of a trusted friend.

With regard to Spay & Neuter, of course the dogs are spayed/neutered before being rehomed, that goes without saying. But if you take my dogs under False Pretenses, they are legally registered & microchipped to me, and you are informed that I am the owner and I do not release permission to do surgery on the those dogs, you are liable if you go ahead and do so against my wishes.

I'm sorry, you are very wrong. If I was turning over those dogs permanently, they would have had the Ownership papers signed over to them. But they did not as the dogs were to be returned if either party was not happy. And until such time as I was sure those dogs went where I was led to believe they were going, I was not about to release any papers.

As I was searching the Internet, I came across a few different incidents of Rescues stealing dogs, apparently I am not the first. Here is a link to one of them that appears to be developing a reputation for the very same thing.

[link removed: potential slander]

So perhaps it wouldn't hurt to put a little more thought into what you say. At no point did I say I handed my dogs over to a Rescue. And as such, as long as I have not released the papers and Ownership papers, the dogs are mine. As we had agreed upon to the lady to whom I did release my dogs, they should have been returned when I was not satisfied with her placement of the dogs, which was to the Rescue.

I didn't say I wasn't calling the Police, I said I had booked an appt with the Provincial Vet Department to come in and do an Inspection. Once that is done, and I know my dogs are safe, Yes the Police will be called, along with my lawyer.

In the meanwhile, for those of you who are Breeders, just a word of warning. This is not the only Rescue Group like this out there. You could be next.

Last edited by growler~GateKeeper; January 30th, 2012 at 11:32 PM. Reason: Mention of names leads to possibility of slander/liable
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  #5  
Old January 30th, 2012, 08:38 PM
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So you probably took money for these dogs? If so they were sold. Pure and simple. Personally, I don't think you have a leg to stand on. If you believe you do have you contacted a lawyer?
You stated the agreement was if things didn't work out they be returned to you. Sounds like things are working out fine on their end. They did the responsible thing and s/n dogs to not add to the burgeoning population explosion. Good for them!
Lunatics?? Tut tut.............
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Old January 30th, 2012, 11:06 PM
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bm, l4h, she says that she didn't know this lady who said she had good homes for her dogs was associated with a rescue.
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  #7  
Old January 31st, 2012, 07:01 AM
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To me if you hand over your dogs physically there is an indication that you surrendered ownership of them. Did you just hand them over the dogs without a written agreement and money being transferred, or did they break into your home and take them?


If you spay/neuter your dogs before you rehome them, then I don't see the problem with the rescue doing it on your behalf????

Quite frankly if I thought my dogs/cats were stolen, I would be on the phone to the police so fast, it isn't funny. I wouldn't be waiting for some type of home inspection (which I'm still confused as to why you need that ).
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Old January 31st, 2012, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
bm, l4h, she says that she didn't know this lady who said she had good homes for her dogs was associated with a rescue.
And you just hand over your dogs to a stranger with no written agreement? I find that strange on behalf of both the rescue and breeder. Both should know better.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 07:35 AM
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If dogonedaze took money for the dogs, then she sold them. If she sold them they are no longer hers and she loses all rights to them including future sales/placement of the same dogs.

I can see why dogonedaze feels bad though, it does seem like she was duped in some way because it does sound like the person who bought the dogs was not forthcoming about their destination and this seemed to be important to dogonedaze.
I think dogonedaze even knows she was duped because she wrote "You are correct in that I did not cover my bases, I mistakenly took the word of a trusted friend. "

But legally, AKAIK, when you sell something (unless their is a clear contract that stipulates aspects of the sale), it is no longer yours and all your rights are lost.

Please know that this rescue in question CAN NOT be named here. And I certainly don't want this thread to get even hotter, but I have to wonder something.... If what the OP says is true, this does indeed sound like a shady practice (even if it is legal) on behalf of the rescue does it not? I have some experience with rescue, but many members have tons.
Have other members heard of similar practices?
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by marko View Post
I can see why dogonedaze feels bad though, it does seem like she was duped in some way because it does sound like the person who bought the dogs was not forthcoming about their destination and this seemed to be important to dogonedaze.
I think dogonedaze even knows she was duped because she wrote "You are correct in that I did not cover my bases, I mistakenly took the word of a trusted friend. "

But legally, AKAIK, when you sell something (unless their is a clear contract that stipulates aspects of the sale), it is no longer yours and all your rights are lost.

Please know that this rescue in question CAN NOT be named here. And I certainly don't want this thread to get even hotter, but I have to wonder something.... If what the OP says is true, this does indeed sound like a shady practice (even if it is legal) on behalf of the rescue does it not? I have some experience with rescue, but many members have tons.
Have other members heard of similar practices?
Just as there are many "shady" breeders I would assume there are a few shady rescues creeping in too. So sad. There have been some already taken down and taken to court. Wish they'd react that quickly to all the puppy mills around.
We are only getting one side of the story. Would be interesting to hear the other prospective. I bet there would be a slightly different take then. JMO of course.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
If you spay/neuter your dogs before you rehome them, then I don't see the problem with the rescue doing it on your behalf????
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgonedaze View Post


As I was searching the Internet, I came across a few different incidents of Rescues stealing dogs, apparently I am not the first. Here is a link to one of them that appears to be developing a reputation for the very same thing.
I think those "rescue" groups actually steal the dogs without the owner's knowledge, unlike your situation, which the dogs were handed over. Yes, those would be unscrupulous, for sure.

What does your written agreement between the rescue and yourself state?
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  #13  
Old January 31st, 2012, 02:40 PM
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I would love to find out who this rescue is as it is very easy to research.
Anyways - if you have a trusted friend then I wonder why they would lead you astray. Something needs to be said about their involvement in trying to assist you.

Also, I find it odd that you have not heard of rescue groups and you are a reputable breeder?. Every breeder knows who rescue groups are because there are times when one needs the other. (rare but does happen).

To ease you mind, why not call an SPCA and simply ask them if they ever heard of this group. Also you can ask other rescue groups if they know them.

If this is a shady deal than that is an absolute shame. I guess it's like putting your dogs in a newspaper to sell them without researching first.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 04:22 PM
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Well,nowhere does the OP mention money changing hands,if that was the case,I have never heard of a Rescue buying dogs,but then again I don't know many rescues.
One point I am happy about,if they were s/n at least they will not be going to a puppy-mill and I hope this is the truth.

Dawgonedaze,if I were you,I would contact the SPCA and require about this rescue,like Ben Max says and if they were really stolen,with no money exchange I would call the police.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Chico2 - rescues I know have forked out money for miller dogs. They usually either intercept the broker or they go directly to the miller. Unethical...I say yes...but that's me.

If a rescue took these dogs (because they were GIVEN to them), obviously had them at the vet (because the OP contacted the vet) for vetting and sterilization, ask for a minimual adoption fee, advertize on their website that these dogs are up for adoption; then I have a really hard time thinking that they are not a legitimate rescue.
If a questionable rescue took these dogs under false pretense and these dogs magically 'disappeared' - then I would seriously have my doubts about the rescue...obviously.

This is a one way story without any other input from the other side so it is hard to really say what is what. But - from what I have read, I do not think that this is a clandestine rescue.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 04:51 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgonedaze View Post
IIn order to protect myself and my dogs, I have called the Provincial Vet Department and have asked them to come in to do an Inspection. I hesitate to call the Police until I have this inspection done, as I do not want to risk the possibility of this Rescue having someone come in to seize my dogs, as they have threatened.
Just to ease your mind...NO RESCUE group has any rights legally to walk into your home and seize your dogs. And did they specifiy who the 'someone' were? The only authority that is allowed is anyone appointed by law/courts: police, animal control, SPCA inspecter, and health inspecter.

So - if these people walked into your home, sold you a bill of goods - then call the police and launch an investigation. Why wait?
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Old January 31st, 2012, 08:35 PM
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The OP clearly stated that she had no idea the lady she gave the dogs to was taking the dogs to a rescue group. The OP also clearly stated that she was under the impression that the dogs were going to homes, not being advertised to find homes. Again the OP clearly stated that she didn't recognize the name of the rescue group that took her dogs, she didn't say that she doesn't know what a rescue group is. The OP also didn't say anything about money exchanging hands. How are so many things mis-read?


Here, I quoted the pertinent information so you can re-read:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgonedaze View Post
I am a brand new member from Manitoba. [...]As a Senior, I want to prepare for the coming years, and am carefully/reluctantly rehoming some of my beloved pets...

...this woman claimed to have owners that matched my requirements exactly...

...Imagine my surprise and heartbreak when I saw their photos posted on the website of this Rescue...

...I had never heard of this Rescue group before...

---------------------------
Anyway, Dawgonedaze as a breeder you really should know to have agreements written and signed by both parties, and hopefully you have learned your lesson. It doesn't sound like the woman was completely honest or forthcoming with you. I understand your concern about the dogs as I know how easy it is to get a dog from a rescue. It is only slightly more difficult than getting a dog from the SPCA. I don't understand your concern about the dogs getting sterilized though as I imagine you have kept your best breeders or would at least be trying to re-home your best breeders into another breeding home. I personally have no qualms about breeding good quality purebred dogs, but I do feel sad for any dog that has more than one home in its lifetime. If you are completely innocent there should be no risk in your reporting this situation to the police, in fact it should have been your first move. I don't understand why on Earth they would do it, but I have also heard of "rescues" stealing dogs in perfectly fine homes. I remember reading a link on these forums to a newspaper article that reported just such a thing.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
And you just hand over your dogs to a stranger with no written agreement? I find that strange on behalf of both the rescue and breeder. Both should know better.
l4h, I don't know about that stuff, I was just commenting about her not knowing the lady was in rescue cause I thought u might not have read that part of the post.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 11:19 PM
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Making assumptions and reading between the lines about what happened during these transactions only gets tempers flaring and does nothing to help the OP with her original questions. Carefully re-reading the posts before replying should ensure one doesn't miss key details.

If you can't offer helpful advice or suggestions on what the OP can do next to try to resolve her situation in a satisfactory manner, then please don't post just to criticize.

There are a large number of seniors that are taken advantage of by various scams/unscrupulous people every year. There have been newspaper articles documenting people posing as rescue organizations that obtain their animals by deceptive and even some unlawful means. The majority of rescue organizations only intent is helping the animals/owners in a lawful manner.

Since we don't have the full story and this particular organization can not be named here due to the potential for slander lets not make judgements either way.

If you have an issue with another member please take it up either directly with that member, the mods or admin through pm & not open forum.
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Old January 31st, 2012, 11:53 PM
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OK so the op suspects she has been scammed. She should call the police because we know the old people are getting scammed on a regular basis.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 08:21 AM
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OK so the op suspects she has been scammed. She should call the police[...]
Agreed.
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Old February 1st, 2012, 09:27 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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As I said before this is a one way story. Without the input of the rescue in question, then it's hard to say what was said, how this went down, what was told and or written and what deal was made.

And just as a footnote; advice has been given on contacting the authorities, and even trying to put someone's mind at ease as the whole rescue concept is not known. So as far as I can see alot of 'education' has been provided to help sort things out.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:04 PM
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i am very familiar with dawgonedaze and her poodle breeding program. she is a mill with dogs in crates all through her house. i am also very familiar with the rescue person who did not steal the dogs. she did lie to poodle lady but was told to do so from poodle ladies dr. the dogs were not bought and there was a surrender form but was not signed as there was to be 13 dogs given to the rescue and it was to be 4 dogs a week till all were handed over so the surrender form wasnt being signed till all dogs were released stupid yes i know. and poodle lady has to this day not called police or provincial vet as she has had many complaints filed against her for being a mill. she sells her dogs for 4000 and ships mostly to the united states were she cant do home inspections most of her dogs do not even stay in manitoba. she advertises and being located in the u.s. but she lives in seven sisters manitoba and her name is <name edited out> i am a impartial person to this but was right in the middle of the whole thing. and if you ask me both ladies lied to each other. and poodle lady she keeps posting all over web looking for sympathy which she is not getting much. the rescue was a good rescue but due to a contolling dictator director all volunteers and board members left and now its is a one person rescue with just the director. and isnt rescuing dogs anymore to my knowledge as she is ill.
all in all i would say both ladies lied. but the board members of the rescue were also lied to by its own director/founder. when the rescue found out what the director was doing they tried to correct it but the dogs had already been adopted to wonderful family homes. except one and that dog was given back to <name edited out>/dawgonedaze

Last edited by hazelrunpack; April 3rd, 2012 at 10:59 PM. Reason: pls review the board rules
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  #24  
Old April 4th, 2012, 06:44 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyanimallove View Post
i am very familiar with dawgonedaze and her poodle breeding program. she is a mill with dogs in crates all through her house. i am also very familiar with the rescue person who did not steal the dogs. she did lie to poodle lady but was told to do so from poodle ladies dr. the dogs were not bought and there was a surrender form but was not signed as there was to be 13 dogs given to the rescue and it was to be 4 dogs a week till all were handed over so the surrender form wasnt being signed till all dogs were released stupid yes i know. and poodle lady has to this day not called police or provincial vet as she has had many complaints filed against her for being a mill. she sells her dogs for 4000 and ships mostly to the united states were she cant do home inspections most of her dogs do not even stay in manitoba. she advertises and being located in the u.s. but she lives in seven sisters manitoba and her name is <name edited out> i am a impartial person to this but was right in the middle of the whole thing. and if you ask me both ladies lied to each other. and poodle lady she keeps posting all over web looking for sympathy which she is not getting much. the rescue was a good rescue but due to a contolling dictator director all volunteers and board members left and now its is a one person rescue with just the director. and isnt rescuing dogs anymore to my knowledge as she is ill.
all in all i would say both ladies lied. but the board members of the rescue were also lied to by its own director/founder. when the rescue found out what the director was doing they tried to correct it but the dogs had already been adopted to wonderful family homes. except one and that dog was given back to <name edited out>/dawgonedaze
Thank you for letting us know.
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  #25  
Old April 4th, 2012, 08:56 AM
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The names that were mentioned were easy to look up via Google. If "crazyanimallove" is who I guessed then it looks like there is a feud between a couple parties regarding their poodles.
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  #26  
Old April 4th, 2012, 09:05 AM
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I'd like to keep this thread as a learning/warning thread. Let's keep real names out of this thread or it will likely be deleted.
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  #27  
Old April 4th, 2012, 08:18 PM
Digston Digston is offline
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If the 'rescue' needed to lie in order to gain possession of the dogs then they shouldn't have been the ones handling the situation IMO.
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  #28  
Old April 5th, 2012, 12:08 AM
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sandyrivers sandyrivers is offline
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Re-homing your pets

Hi,

This seems like a hot thread!!!

I am a bit confused...I do feel sorry for dawgondaze for the loss of his/hers pets, but I keep asking my self some questions!

I have 8 cats, and if ever one day, one or some of them would have to be re-homed...Well I would make jolly well sure they are going to a good home!

I would NEVER let any of them go to someone I had not personally met, interviewed, visited their house, called their current vet and ask if the previous pets were well cared for.
I would make the new adopting family sign all manner of papers that would give me the right to make an EXTENSIVE background check on them.
I would call their employer, their bank, their landlord...I would call every one who could tell me about them!
I would also visit their neighbors to ask what kind of people they are.
If the new family had no issues, they would gladly co operate in this.
I would ask them if they have pet insurance, in case something costly comes up.
I would ask if they had other previous pets and what happened to them.

I would NEVER trust someone that says ''oh yeah, they are going to a good home''.

When we decide to take a pet in our life, it's a FOREVER commitment. If we are faced with situations that make so that we must re-home them, it is our responsibility to make all the efforts and take all the steps required to ensure they are going to a good home.

It is sad that the ones who are/may be suffering the most from all this are the pets themselves.

It just goes to say...NEVER entrust your pet to someone, unless you did your homework and are really really sure of where they are going.

Sad story, very sad.

sandyrivers

PS, Please, if this is a ''dog-fight'', as it has been implied... between people/breeders/others... Kindly take it elsewhere...
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Last edited by sandyrivers; April 5th, 2012 at 12:21 AM. Reason: corrections
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  #29  
Old April 5th, 2012, 06:35 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandyrivers View Post
It is sad that the ones who are/may be suffering the most from all this are the pets themselves.
So true!
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In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

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  #30  
Old April 15th, 2012, 08:51 PM
crazyanimallove crazyanimallove is offline
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i am not a poodle breeder sounds like you are saying that i am. i have no connection to either party.
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