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Old October 6th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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Angry Well Albertans protested BSL & they don't have it -Yet.

I know one yelling match erupted over the topic of Protest, visable, rather than in e-mails, or writing, or by phone...I honestly think any anti BSL communication to M. Bryant are just being tossed out. 'Getting to the point that I think Ontario dog owners who are Not in favour of this, are going to have to do a bit more than write letters.
*************************

Fort Frances Times
Pit bull breeders protest proposed ban
October 05, 2004

(CP)

Dog owners across Canada should howl in anger against any move by Ontario to ban pit bulls, say the breed’s supporters.

About a dozen people—some with their pit bull pets on leashes—held a protest outside the Alberta legislature yesterday.

Supporters fear if Ontario brings in legislation banning pit bulls, other provinces are bound to follow—regardless of evidence that suggests irresponsible owners are responsible for dog attacks, said Brigitte Mann, president of the Canadian American Pit Bull Terrier Association.

“Any dog treated harshly or trained to attack may be aggressive and bite a person or another animal. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous weapon,” Mann said.

“Specific breeds of dogs are not to blame for the irresponsibility and idiocy of their owners.”

In late August, Ontario Attorney General Michael Bryant began looking at banning pit bulls after a number of serious attacks, including one in which two dogs mauled a Toronto man.

Police had to fire 16 shots to kill the animals.

The province also is considering tougher penalties for owners of all dog breeds that attack, including jail time and heavy fines.

Greg Crone, Bryant’s spokesman, said the department already has received more than 5,000 e-mails from the public.

“The overwhelming response has been in favour of a ban, but no final decision has been made,” Crone said from Toronto. “Nothing will be presented until the legislature resumes in mid-October.

“Practically speaking, it will be later in the fall.”

Pit bulls were created by crossing a bull dog and a terrier. They originally were bred in the 19th century to fight other dogs in pits.

Some breeders say the animals are not inherently aggressive, and with proper training and socialization can make good pets.

Mann said she routinely allows her four young daughters to play around the 20 pit bulls she has on her rural property near Lacombe, Alta.—with adult supervision.

“Our children can take their bones, their food dishes right away from them,” she said. “I trust my seven-year-old to be outside with my 90-pound male Maximus.”

Instead of an outright ban, New Brunswick is considering bringing in tighter controls on specific breeds such as pit bulls, Rottweilers, and Japanese akitas.

The bill follows the mauling death last March of a four-year-old boy by three Rottweilers.

Groups such as the Canadian Kennel Club support vicious dog legislation, but oppose banning specific breeds.

The kennel club outlined its views in a recent letter to Bryant and the Ontario government.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
The bill follows the mauling death last March of a four-year-old boy by three Rottweilers
If I am not mistaken, this young boy was named James Waddell. Odd, the inquest recommendations for this case mention nothing about stricter controls on certain breeds of dogs (not even rottweilers) or banning them either. What it does mention is education and holding dog owners of all breeds of dogs responsible for the actions of their dogs.

Hmmm, the same thing was said at the inquest of Courtney Trempe.

Why is it that the Canadian politicians and the press are so quick to use these two children as poster children for BSL but NEVER mention the recommendations made at the inquests?

You would think that after the thousands of your tax dollars spent on those inquests, someone in the government would be smart enough to use them to make laws that make sense.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 08:00 AM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Edmonton is much further along than Ontario with their fight towards BSL. What they have imposed already is what we are trying to fight at this stage. The Ontario province wide BSL will more then likey follow a muzzle bylaw...which they would have to enforce first.

ALBERTA
Edmonton:

Edmonton has a Restricted Dog' by-law. 'Restricted dog' breeds include only those dogs that a veterinarian licensed to practice in the province of Alberta has determined to be primarily either Staffordshire Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier, but ONLY those that are ineligible for registration with the Canadian Kennel Club. 'Restricted dogs' must be muzzled when in public; enclosed or muzzled on private property; license fees and fines for these dogs are higher; and owners must have a minimum of $1,000,000 liability insurance covering their dogs.

Brooks:

Perfectly law-abiding owners will find their innocent dogs are 'Restricted' if they're one of the following breeds or mixes: American Pit Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers (the list also includes inaccurate breed names)

'Restricted' means these dogs must be in a secured enclosure on the owner's property or muzzled and on a permitted leash. They must be muzzled and on a permitted leash when off the owner's property.

Breeds that fall under the category of 'Prohibited Dogs' includes: Mastiffs, Rottweilers, and Rhodesian Ridgebacks. Prohibited dogs are not permitted within the town's limits.



As for your comments Dinah :
Quote:
I said that weeks ago and was met with opposition by some others on this board, which is strange. The squeakly wheel gets the grease. Bryant couldn't care less about emails - he doesn't even read them his staff probably just deletes them all without reading any of them
I had asked you what you have done to organize the protest that you're wanting to have and what you have done so far to fight the BSL. You said:

Quote:
I have posted what I've done. In fact, I just 10 minutes ago emailed Bryant with yet another protestation.
But I thought that he couldn't care less about emails? By all means, if you think that people here have done nothing worthy of protesting this BSL, take the first step.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 08:17 AM
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I wouldn't take my dog anwhere near a large protest with lots of dogs present! She is a VERY stable dog and I don't doubt for a second that she would act like the perfect senior lady that she is BUT those kinds of crowds can be very stressful for dogs. All it would take would be one dog that decides it is tired of all the people and other dogs in it's face and you would have a media nightmare.

My mom has wonderful rescued greyhound that can't go to Meet and Greet's. She can't handle the stress of new places, so many new people and new dogs. She gets a bit snappy. Imagine a couple of dogs like that in a park full of pit bulls. The media (and Mr. Bryant) would be all over that like white on rice!
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Old October 7th, 2004, 08:23 AM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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THis is exactly the point that we tried to bring across in the last thread. I don't feel comfortable with bringing my dog out to a large heated (which it would be) protest.
You don't have to be a pit bull owner to get out there and protest against this BSL! If that's what you want to do.
I personally feel that having a protest for this nature would be very heated and some tempers might flare if those for the BSL showed up as well. I don't think this is the best way to show support for the breed. I think it would appear - to those that believe everything they read - like it was more of an intimidation attempt by having a large crowd of pit bulls at Queen's Park..

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott
I wouldn't take my dog anwhere near a large protest with lots of dogs present! She is a VERY stable dog and I don't doubt for a second that she would act like the perfect senior lady that she is BUT those kinds of crowds can be very stressful for dogs. All it would take would be one dog that decides it is tired of all the people and other dogs in it's face and you would have a media nightmare.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Spurby Spurby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
What I said was that I am surprised pitbull owners haven't descended on Queen's Park like locusts. Why is that???

I don't own a pitbull, but you can be d@mn sure if BSL is ever extended to chows I will be there front and centre - with both of my dogs. That's a promise.
Well well, why wait UNTIL or IF your breed is affected??

I believe everyone has already answered the very obvious reasons why a protest wouldn't work. It NEVER HAS, have you not seen how many protests end up like? The people actually involved in this fight are doing more than you will ever know-unless chows were involved? , which includes things way more productive than a protest- Make sense?? What have you been doing? Have you gotten the petition printed out and signatures signed?
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Old October 7th, 2004, 09:02 AM
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A protest involving the animal would in my opinion would be irressponsible dog ownership. Subjecting your dog to a huge crowd of pissed off people is not somewhere I am going to voluntarily take my dog. I also do not own a pit but if we dont do anything to help this breed what makes you think the pit owners are going to want to help you when chows make the list. I own a Mastiff and they are going to be hit eventually and there breed has been brought up in a few articles that I have read. We are all I hope responsible owners and you would think want to help each other out. I have sent petitions around film sets and had almost an entire crew of 212 people sign it. By the way in that group there was only one pit owner who came to the office to thank me and ask about my pit. When I told him I don't own a pit he was blown away that I would take the time to fight a battle that did not affect me. I told him the same thing it affects us all. I try to educate people if they are willing to listen. Besides and email and griping at people what are you doing?


//[/IMG]
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Old October 7th, 2004, 10:05 AM
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just moving it up again this is important to read
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Old October 7th, 2004, 10:19 AM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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This problem is not just here in Toronto, nor is it just in Canada alone. The link I proved shows the actions that are in progress RIGHT NOW across North America. I had checked this list a while ago - before the BSL talk in Toronto and there were 2 "fresh" alerts, now... too many....

LINK
READ THIS

Dinah, this might show you what people are up to... since they're not flocking to Queen's Park like the should ....
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:02 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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I wouldn't bring my dog to a big protest either..

Too many people, dogs. He is as steady as a rock but, what if the Police get called in as they have been before on protests? I don't think my dog would take me being wacked with a billy club by a stranger, or run over by a horse, as much as he likes horse on a friendly basis. I'm sure Bryant would like nothing better than to loose some police dogs on protestors dogs to see what happens. I'm sure he would Not do that to owners without their dogs.

Why not just Owners? After all, we are the voters, not the dogs. And if we choose to protest, it's our choice. (We didn't just get loaded up, leashed & brought there.)
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
Why are you arguing my point?? Pit bull owners don't HAVE to take their dogs to any protest and if THEY aren't organizing a loud, media covered, protest, why should I?? I have other things to worry about at this time and frankly, it isn't my fight. Yet.

Like I said, if BSL ever extends to chows that's when I'll pick up the fight. Until then if pitbull owners can't be bothered to be more in the public eye protesting BSL, those who don't own pitbulls shouldn't be expected to pick up the slack for them.
I rescent the fact that you will sit here and tell us how to go about OUR fight. As you said it's not your fight, and when it is, TRUST me I'll be there to tell you what you're doing is not good enough.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
I am amazed at your attitude! Go ahead and sign your petititons, mail them to Bryant for his round file. All I asked is why pitbull owners are protesting IN PUBLIC.

And don't worry, if any government ever brings in a BSL targetting chows I'll be welcoming your advice (when I'm not protesting publically) on how to fight it instead of condemning same.
Aren't you just a big bag of wits? So humourous, sorry if I don't laugh...

We told you what we thought about protesting publically... or did you forget to read that part...
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:46 PM
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Well I am sure that all the pit bull owners on here will be lining up to help you when it gets to chows. Since you are so willing to put down everything they do. It is your fight you have a breed of dog that can be aggressive and dont tell me I don't know what I am talking about because I have owned an asian breed and my brother owns an akita I have friends that have chows. Most asian breeds can be aggressive. Simple fact. But it is not your fight so why do you bother posting if you have better things to do. Than go do them and dont come whining when they get to your breed
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:53 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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posting with BTPB?? Interesting I felt the same way

Why does it have to be JUST pit bull owners Dinah? Why can't all people that believe BSL is wrong stand up for these cause? That's what I'm asking! Everyone is affected by BSL, NOT JUST pit bull owners! That's why I suggested that you do something, since you're so adimant that everyone is doing nothing....
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Old October 7th, 2004, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
The nerve of me asking a question of pitbull owners and offering a suggestion for them to fight BSL targetting their dogs. For shame!
You didn't offer suggestions sweetie! You outright said that we are taking this lying down and there has been nothing done about the situation except writing some meaningless letters, I would expect that any person wouldn't accept that as contsructive critisim....
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Old October 7th, 2004, 01:06 PM
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Hmm, maybe since all us pit bull owners are cop outs... we must not care about our dogs... we must be idiots that just sit behind the comouter all day and write about BSL on bulletin boards, and waste our time with people like yourself that's can't hear anything but their own voice.
I don't believe in going to a public protest on this issue. That's my point of view. Take it or leave it, I really could careless. But I am NOT speaking for ALL pit bull owners, nor have I ever said that I was. But if you take a minute to read what I had posted in the links I gave you a few places to look and see what has been done about this.

Since you have decided to revert to childish name calling and bullying. I'm done "discussing" this matter with you, it's like beating a dead horse.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 02:30 PM
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Angry I hate to break it to ya, but I'm not a PB owner..

Right now in New Bruswick provincail legislation is being proposed to limit Rottis, Dobes, Akitas, And Pit bulls. When is the last time you heard of an attack involving most of these breeds in New Brunswick?

The Jaime Waddell case keeps getting trotted out both with N.B. politicians & M. Byrant. Ditto the case involving the Pit bull's breeder that attacked him in TO. These are both cases that should Prove the point of anti BSL more than anything!

Jaime Waddell: 4 big intact dogs of mixed genders sharing a property with a 3 yr.old? DUH!!! Parent taking 'parenting classes'. 'Wonder if anybody from these classes or Children's Aid pointed out that what he was doing was endangering his son? -No matter what the breed or size of the dogs!

The attack on the breeder. -If 50% of what a dog becomes is the breeders' responsibility, & this breeder chose to give Two puppies to a friend.
(the other 50% of what a dog becomes being the Owners' responsibility) Doesn't that breeder shoulder much more than 75% of what happened to him?

If New Brunswick is going ahead with more BSL on more breeds that Haven't been involved in attacks, what do you think the future hold for your breed?
In the U.S. Chows & 'Huskies' are higher on BSL lists because there are more of them. If Akitas end up on BSL in Canada, how long do you think before Chows are there too? Rottweillers? Mastiffs in various forms are next or just banned as an entire group? This is the whole problem with dog people. They won't get it together. Everything is everybody else's problem until it becomes Their Problem. BSL is everybody's problem that owns a dog! Check out Germany, Italy, & the U.S., esp. as it concerns Insurance Co's. When Public Health Dept's gave it up as useless, the Ins. Co's picked it up again.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 02:39 PM
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If New Brunswick is going ahead with more BSL on more breeds that Haven't been involved in attacks, what do you think the future hold for your breed? In the U.S. Chows & 'Huskies' are higher on BSL lists because there are more of them. If Akitas end up on BSL in Canada, how long do you think before Chows are there too? Rottweillers? Mastiffs in various forms are next or just banned as an entire group? This is the whole problem with dog people. They won't get it together. Everything is everybody else's problem until it becomes Their Problem. BSL is everybody's problem that owns a dog! Check out Germany, Italy, & the U.S., esp. as it concerns Insurance Co's. When Public Health Dept's gave it up as useless, the Ins. Co's picked it up again
So I guess You might be all wrong Dinah looks like you are not above all this and if you read this post it is really well written and gets the point out that we as dog owner are all responsible. So I guess this is your battle too unless you want to be standing alone
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Old October 7th, 2004, 02:39 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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And ACTUALLY That what I'm trying to do here....

Organize....a protest...@ Queen's park...or other venue if you deem that appropriate (er?)

Hi there....
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Old October 7th, 2004, 02:50 PM
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I think it is a great idea and if I can help spread the word just post the info. But I agree that you need to stat NO DOGS that would make the whole idea futile.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 03:17 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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O.K. -I think a Sunday is best for most people.

Let's give it a try!
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Old October 7th, 2004, 03:29 PM
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It is thanksgiving though. It should be done on a weekend that is more available to everyone. Even next weekend. Sunday.
Hope you don't mind my 2 cents...
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Old October 7th, 2004, 03:30 PM
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I agree and as soon as we have the info I can run copies from my office and post in High Park and along the streets, and other parks along the way. If everybody can post a few in their neighbourhoods we could cover a lot of ground.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 03:35 PM
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I can post in sunnybrook park they have a off leash park there. Just give me flyers when you make them. I can also put some up in Scarborough and in my building where there are alot of large breed dogs.
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Old October 7th, 2004, 03:47 PM
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Most protests at Queen's Park take place during the week, on the weekends you will have press but not the AG. (Bryant's main office is not at Queen's Park.)
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Old October 7th, 2004, 04:06 PM
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I could not join you at Queens park,but I would certainly help putting up posters about an upcoming protest.
As I have said before,there are several pit-bull owners in the town-house complex across the street from me,yes,some of them are macho owners with macho dogs,but many are wonderful responsible owners.
Personally I think a protest without the dogs is a great idea,you HAVE to make yourselves heard,you can't just wait for the final verdict...
How many out there can afford a 1.000.0000 liability insurance? I know you would probably scrape up the money somehow,because you love your dogs...but why should you if your dog has done nothing wrong?
What's the OSPCA's stand on this? After all they might end up with a flood of unfortunate Pit-Bulls just like in Windsor
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Old October 7th, 2004, 04:18 PM
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Lets do the protest at Michael Bryants house that would certainly attract the media as well as his attention
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Old October 7th, 2004, 04:24 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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Oh no not Thanksgiving weekend..

But better try to do it before the weather gets bad. Sunday Oct 31, Hallowe'en? Don't they change Hallwe'en to Saturday if it falls on a Sunday?
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Old October 7th, 2004, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
O brother.

Throughout the centuries, chows have been bred to hunt, fight, guard royal palaces, for food - you name it. Chows get the same stupid stereotyping as pitbulls, but don't worry, I won't expect ANY pitbull owner to line up to help me should BSL ever extend to chows given the responses I've read on this board.

The nerve of me asking a question of pitbull owners and offering a suggestion for them to fight BSL targetting their dogs. For shame!
Wow! You know, if I wasn't so very tired I would be so very offended! I don't own a pit bull. Hell, I don't even live in Canada! Yet I send e-mails out almost every day to people who count. Why should I bother? Because my breed might be next. Nothing like sitting on your hinney and waiting for the fight to come to you. Oh, and the chances of me ever moving to Canada are pretty darn slim too since my husband is in the U.S. Army and last I checked, no bases in Canada.

Many cities that propose more then one breed for BSL do include chows on their lists. Next time one of those comes up, then I'll let you know. Especially since I now know that you can do this so much more effectively then the rest of us.

Oh, BTW, a very good friend of mine who is Canadian has been on the radio, television and in the paper fighting the Ontario Pit Bull Ban. Guess what, she doesn't own a pit bull either!
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Old October 8th, 2004, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinah
How many pitbull owners on this board have posted cop out after cop out about why they don't protest publically, with media coverage, on the lawns of Queen's Park??!?!?!

So you tell me why I should bother organizing a protest against BSL that will be targetting THEIR breed of dog - not mine - if all I read are cop outs from PB owners???!?!?!???

Hello? Earth to moon????

Like I said, if BSL EVER extends to chows, I WILL be front and centre on the lawns of Queen's Park. THAT is a promise, with or without anyone else

And if any pitbull owner does get off their duff and away from their d@mn puters long enough to organize a public protest instead of shuffling paper around to idiot politicians for their round files so as [b] to protect their breed of dog - pitbulls - from this nonsense [b/] I will be more than happy to attend such protest. Just give me the date and time - I will be there supporting you.
Ok, now you really have me pissed. YOU have NO IDEA, NONE, WHAT SO EVER, as to what the ORGANAZIED groups set up to fight BSL EVERYWHERE have been doing, so stop making such gross ignorant statements such as this. People like me, and others, who ARE INVOLVED are doing more than sitting on our "duff's" how DARE YOU CLAIM OTHERWISE WHEN YOU HAVE NO CLUE! You aren't even involved in this fight, other than to critisize, how easy it is Go ahead Dinah, sit on your arse while others fight BSL, letting others do the work for you, barking orders, you should be THANKFUL that others are working their @sses off to fight this. Oh, and don't dare ask me what we have done, or have planned, i do not have to answer to the likes of you, if people want to know AND help out, then they can find out by joining an anti BSL group.

To all the people wanting to protest(not you Dinah, since this isn't "your" fight ) Who will be there to answer the medias questions about the breed(an expert) or about BSL?, you would need people extremly knowledgeable about all aspects of the breed, and BSL(stats etc), not, "my pit is so friendly and just loves everyone", that just won't cut it for the MPP's. All it takes is one stupid statement to the media, more fuel to add to the fire. Believe me, i would LOVE to go and protest my love for the breed, and aganist BSL, but things that are more productive to fighting this are being worked on(and have been done). Showing them we can dispute this proposed BSL in a civil matter, with knowledge and experience, goes much farther than a "protest" I am sure that this makes sense to most, others obviously need more help.
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