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Old December 16th, 2011, 11:09 AM
Sean1969 Sean1969 is offline
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Lupus or Allergies

Hello again,
I haven’t posted here for a while my last post was http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=921176 “Crusty dog nose pics”.

I have a new dog she is a GSP 2 ½ish yrs old I raised from a puppy. Papered and registered I bought from Damar, Kansas “(Star’s Pups Litter 09)” and had her Bird dog trained for $2,500. Last year I noticed little scabs on her skin, I thought it was barbed wire scratching her as she ran around hunting. Not the case it has progressed into lesions and mass itching causing more damage to her skin. I took her to 2 vets they said allergies, They put her on ChlorTabs, Benadryl, Fish oil, Antibiotics and Prednisone. The Pred made her fat and lethargic. Not happy with this, anyways her symptoms for the most part almost went away. I attribute the partial healing to the Prednisone. The other meds nothing, fish oil made her coat shinny as it should it helps promote healthy skin. I also changed her diet to expensive grain free dog food. I noticed that the skin irritation is more in the summer months and less through the winter months, the pictures attached were taken December 16, 2011after being on pred for 2 weeks. After the allergy treatment didn’t work we gave her a break for 8 weeks, med free to clear her system for blood work. Blood work came back, vet said she isn’t allergic to anything they tested for. And now wants to bring her back in for more allergy skin testing, then Biopsy after that. Vets ball park diagnosis is Discoid lupus with out biopsy won’t know for sure. By the way I’m about $3,000 + into vet bills with $800 for the skin test and biopsy to go. Ok…. they say Discoid lupus is not contagious, my last post was for my other dog that has Discoid lupus or collie nose. My GSP always licks the infected nose of my other dog. And now may have the same disease ????. What are the chances that I have Two dogs with the same disease. Is there any treatment to keep her weight down, She is a great hunter and I don’t want to run her to death fat on prednisone.

Frustrated
Sean
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Old December 16th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Sean1969 Sean1969 is offline
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More pics

Im adding more pics here. Notice the nose of the brindle and white dog "Nia" This is the crusty dog nose. I posted a while back. Nose is better but never heals. My GSP Black "Lilly" @ 7 months looks good no infection in this pic. Lilly always licks Nia's nose now Lilly is Infected. Lupus or Allergies
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Old December 17th, 2011, 08:26 AM
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Winston Winston is offline
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What do you feed them? Some of those sores and bumps on the ears look alot like what my boy had years ago. I was feeding him vet prescribed food. He also had these sores that looked like an extra large chicken pox and they wept from time to time.

Once I learned al little bit more about food ingrediants and change him over to a high meat content food everything literally went away. I fed him Orijen which was 80% meat & 20% fruits and veggies. There were no by products and no grains.

You may have already tried changin the food but its important to go with a high grade quality food?

I think this is why both of them have it ??
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Old December 17th, 2011, 10:09 AM
Sean1969 Sean1969 is offline
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This is what I feed them

*Grain Free Dog food by Pet's Healthy Choice

•Low-carb, high protein blend is "Back-to-Basics" for a nutrient dense grain-free food, your furry friend will love! Supplemented with fruits and vegetables, this hearty formula delivers natrual antioxidants to protect your canine from the damage of everyday living supporting a healthy immune system and overall good health. 492 kcal/cup
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein 40% Minimum
Crude Fat 20% Minimum
Crude Fiber 3.5%
Maximum Moisture 10% Maximum
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.7% Omega-3 Fatty Acids .7%
Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Dried Potato Product, Chicken Fat, Salmon Meal, Natural Flavors, Dried Egg Product, Dried Kelp, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Dried Carrots, Dried Cranberries, Dried Apples, Dried Spinach, Potassium Chloride, Salt, Brewers Dried Yeast, Lecithin, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Proteinate, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Inulin (from chicory root), Ascorbic Acid (source of vitamin C), Taurine, DL Methionine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Niacin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, d-Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Rosemary Extract.
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Old December 17th, 2011, 08:51 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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In that older thread, you said that the vet said that it is lupus. You did not say how that was diagnosed? Was a biopsy or culture ever run?

I do not understand why when vets prescribe both antibiotics and pred, and the treatment works, they then say it's autoimmune or from the pred. It could very well be infectious, and with infection is often inflammation.

I wonder, when training, if there wasn't perhaps some exposure to something to something, so this may be unrelated to your other dog. Might be related, but might just be coincidental?

I am biased, tend to think infection first...

btw, she's VERY pretty
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Old December 18th, 2011, 11:00 AM
Sean1969 Sean1969 is offline
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The old thread dog "Crusty nose" was diagnosed by the vet just looking at it, vet gave me Prednisone and antibiotics. It cleared her up made the dog fat but never really healed the nose.

Lilly the GSP- I have taken to 2 vets 1 did blood work to find nothing!!! @$300 a pop and told me the test may have been void due to the dog no being spade, I was told that the dogs female hormones may have altered the test this is why they found nothing. The vet knew Lilly wasnt spade for christ sakes she did the physical.Clearly its somthing. Same vet want to do more test I cant afford paying for nothing I need results.
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Old December 18th, 2011, 08:05 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean1969 View Post
The old thread dog "Crusty nose" was diagnosed by the vet just looking at it, vet gave me Prednisone and antibiotics. It cleared her up made the dog fat but never really healed the nose.
I don't know how in the world that the vet then can say that it is Lupus. It could have been infection, which might be relevant to what is happening now.


Quote:
Lilly the GSP- I have taken to 2 vets 1 did blood work to find nothing!!! @$300 a pop and told me the test may have been void due to the dog no being spade, I was told that the dogs female hormones may have altered the test this is why they found nothing. The vet knew Lilly wasnt spade for christ sakes she did the physical.Clearly its somthing. Same vet want to do more test I cant afford paying for nothing I need results.

Have you been to a dermatologist? Sometimes, even though more expensive intially, they will save in the long run. I guess it all depends on the practitioner.

In the meantime, I would request copies of all blood work and lap tests from your vet(s) for a file to keep at home. Then you can double check things for yourself, and you have the records in case you want to go somewhere else.

If this is infection, it most likely won't show up on a blood test. If there is an autoimmune component, that still doesn't rule out infection. I don't know about the blood and spayed thing, unless they were testing the ANA.

My experience here is that vets are quick to diagnose autoimmune disease when it's obscure infection. Had to go through 5 vets with my boy's nose and problems until I finally found an internal medicine vet that looked at everything, used logic, and came up with infection.

This was my boy's nose at it's worst:


Initially:


And now, still treating:


We are using doxycycline, cipro, and 2.5 mg of pred every other day. My boy weighs 85 pounds. It turns out that the eye meds that we were using for his pannus (tacrolimus), were making the nose worse and preventing it from getting better.
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