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  #31  
Old December 30th, 2011, 05:17 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Originally Posted by LovNKyra View Post
Switching the dog food to fish, and veggies got rid of all sores, had the hair growing back, but still she'd scratch, and still abit of red by the end of the night. Mornings she's completely clear of redness. What does scullcap, sjw, and canine complete help with? What type of drugs are they?
Okay, so there is some huge progress, there's just the itchies to deal with.

I will be honest, those itchies are baffling, and the herbals are more of a trial, but the scullcap and sjw have worked here for that...

The scullcap relaxes the nervous system and releases tension and is the thing that has helped my boy the nost when he appears to itch for no reason. There is some condition of the nervous system that can make them itch - can't think of the name.

The SJW can act as an anti-anxiety supplement, and can also help relieve some pain, particularly low back pain. Think of it also as a mild anti-depressant, and it also affects some neurotransmitters. It can elevate mood and focus, help anxiety, relieve some pain. This one you have to be careful of for the long term, because it will act as an anti-depressant after many months of use, but initially, for a trial, not a concern.

Here I just use the Nature's Way brand for the scullcap and SJW, nothing fancy. These herbs are relatively cheap, in the grand scheme of things, it's the Canine Complete that is the more expensive product.

The Canine Complete is primarily for the thyroid. While the thyroid may test fine, sometimes it's just not working right. It also contains a few other things to support the body, including vit C, enzymes, probiotics (probiotics are big!). I would look around for the best price, but here's the product: http://www.thewholisticpet.com/index...Product_ID/542

I have a friend that tried everything to get the fur growing back on her dog, and the CC worked extrememly well for his fur and skin condition, and that dog was already on adequate thyroid replacement. I'm real big on probiotics too, and in some dogs, just probiotics alone can help with the itchies.

No guarantees, but after the improvements with the diet, this is what I would try next. If that doesn't work, I'm not exactly sure what my next step would be. It might be that we just have to interrupt the cycle and provide the body with some extra nutrients now that the food seems to be right.
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  #32  
Old December 30th, 2011, 09:41 AM
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LoveNKyra,I just read all the posts,what a terrible situation both for you and Kyra.
I am glad we have so many experienced people here,trying to help.
Kyra looks to be a beautiful dog and I sincerely hope,there is a miracle cure for her
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  #33  
Old December 30th, 2011, 10:45 AM
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Okay I'll try those, and thank you chico2. Without these forums i'd be lost for sure.
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  #34  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:40 AM
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I'm sorry to see that your girl is having so many issues, poor her and poor you! I know how frustrating it is. We have a boy with too many issues to list. And add to that, major itchies now as well

He seems to be allergic/sensitive to most things he eats. He gets a home cooked diet as well. We feed him a dehrydrated veggie/fruit mix that has a balanced calcium/phosphorus ratio that you add water to, then add your protein. It's called The Honest Kitchen and the formula is called "Preference". It takes the guess work out of making sure they are getting all the nutrients. We add baked Wild Pink Salmon and cooked Ground Beef. But now one of our vets thinks he may be allergic to the Beef, so he will be getting just Salmon for a few weeks to see if that helps with his itchies. She also gave us something to try, though I will wait until next week to speak with our Holisitic vet and make sure there won't be any conflicts between that and what he's taking now, but it's called Dermoscent Essential 6 Spot-On. I have read several reviews and it gets raves from other dog owners who have allergy/itchy dogs and other dogs with skin issues that couldn't be pinpointed. It almost sounds too good to be true lol, but at this point, I'm willing to try it as long as there will not be any interactions with his regular herbs

Maybe you can give that a try as well? The reviews all say it took about 4 weeks, but the skin conditions cleared up, no more sores or flaky skin and a wonderful coat. Good luck to you both!
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  #35  
Old December 30th, 2011, 12:05 PM
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This is a link to the product info:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/dermoscent-...ot-on-can.html

You can also check Amazon.com. There are a few reviews there and you can order it for much cheaper than the vet. Once we try it, if it works, I will be ordering a few from Amazon
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  #36  
Old December 30th, 2011, 01:02 PM
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Oh, I also wanted to add that since he was put on the home cooked diet, he has had trouble keeping his weight as well. He did have worms, 2 different types, which didn't help! Our Holistic vet said some dogs need a healthy grain to keep their weight stabilized so he reccomended oats. We purchased wheat/rye/barley free oats from Planet Organic and it put the weight back on him (1 cup cooked oats with each meal, fed morning and night). But now since he has gotten the itchies so bad, we're afraid it may be the oats also. He seems to develop sensitivities to almost everything once he's had it for any length of time. Soooo... we're going to try Millet. It's supposed to be one of the least allergenic of the grains, but still has a lot of nutrients in it. Maybe you can try Millet for your girl since she is allergic to oats. If it is going to help her with her weight, you should notice an improvement in a week or so. One thing I would be careful of until you know whether or not she is immuno-compromised, is raw. Most dogs thrive on it, but we have been told by both our regular and Holisitic vets that our boy cannot have raw. He doesn't have the immune system capacity to fight off the normal bacteria and parasites that are found in raw foods and it can be very dangerous. I hope the grains work for you!
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  #37  
Old December 30th, 2011, 02:51 PM
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Thank you, Rgeurts for the suggestions. pleasee let me know how it goes for you after a week or so.

MaxaLisa@ I Could only find SJW here. Can I try that by itself or does it need to be with the scullcups?
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  #38  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:35 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Yes, you can use the SJW by itself. Either one can be used alone. My sense is that the scullcap will work more with the itchies, but that may not be the case. Starting one at a time isn't bad either, then you can see the direct effect.

I tried all the grains with the dogs here - mine never tolerated any of them, and were always quite lean because of the meat and veggie diet. Only recently my boy has weight on him though.
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  #39  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:44 PM
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Yup, I figured I'd try this then if need be I can get the scullcap through ebay. I don't wanna jinx anything but she is very calm since giving her the pills. Almost the demeanor of a cat with the "I'm gonna lay down here, and I don't care if I'm in your way" mentality. Also I gave the pills in her food as she just would not take them any other way. They are the kind that you can pull apart, and are filled with a fine pepper colored power. It's been 7 hours since her last pill, and no issues at all.
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  #40  
Old December 31st, 2011, 02:06 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgeurts View Post
This is a link to the product info:

http://www.drugs.com/vet/dermoscent-...ot-on-can.html

You can also check Amazon.com. There are a few reviews there and you can order it for much cheaper than the vet. Once we try it, if it works, I will be ordering a few from Amazon
An interesting product! Do report back on it
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  #41  
Old December 31st, 2011, 02:08 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Originally Posted by LovNKyra View Post
Yup, I figured I'd try this then if need be I can get the scullcap through ebay. I don't wanna jinx anything but she is very calm since giving her the pills. Almost the demeanor of a cat with the "I'm gonna lay down here, and I don't care if I'm in your way" mentality. Also I gave the pills in her food as she just would not take them any other way. They are the kind that you can pull apart, and are filled with a fine pepper colored power. It's been 7 hours since her last pill, and no issues at all.


I get the scullcap through iherb.com or vitacost.com, but I don't know where you are, so ebay might work better for you.

I dip the pills in yogurt here, though not good if there is a sensitivity to dairy. Sounds like opening up the capsule worked.
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  #42  
Old December 31st, 2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by MaxaLisa View Post

I tried all the grains with the dogs here - mine never tolerated any of them, and were always quite lean because of the meat and veggie diet. Only recently my boy has weight on him though.
Nookie did GREAT on the rolled oats for about 3 months, and really, he may still do well. We were thinking the likely culprit was the oats, but one of our vets is thinking it is the beef. We did stop the oats more than 2 weeks ago (and he has dropped a little weight again), but the itchies haven't subsided, and in fact, have gotten worse. So maybe it is the beef
I'm still going to try the millet and see if he can tolerate it, but I'll wait until a couple of weeks after the beef is removed to see if there's any difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxaLisa View Post
An interesting product! Do report back on it
I'll definitely let you know how it does. Our western vet thinks very highly of this product and I have a lot of respect for her, so I trust her opinion and judgement. I have to wait until the holistic vet opens again next Tuesday just to make sure it's safe with the other meds he's on. It takes 3-4 weeks to have a noticeable difference. Here's hoping it helps him!!
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  #43  
Old January 16th, 2012, 06:27 PM
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Any update?
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  #44  
Old January 24th, 2012, 12:19 AM
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Just switched kyra back to dog food today. She is just way too skinny. She's still the same scratching. The st johns wart didn't help either, and I just today started her on both st johns, and scullcap. I've exhausted every resource. I'm just gonna give up.
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  #45  
Old January 24th, 2012, 02:53 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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My heart is breaking for you guys.

Did the vet ever do a skin scrape and find any yeast?
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  #46  
Old January 24th, 2012, 05:53 PM
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Not sure. If she did she neglected to tell me about it. I don't trust her anymore either, and at this point I'm the one feeding ideas to her. It seems she's only interested in my money, as once I told her I was going to try herbal stuff, and ivermectin she refused to help me with the dog.
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  #47  
Old January 27th, 2012, 08:15 PM
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Well after only 3 days on the dog food her scratching has increase dramatically. She's torn open her ears, neck, arm pits, and face. I think the best thing for her is to put her down. I'm so broken inside. I hate myself.
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  #48  
Old January 28th, 2012, 02:17 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I think we knew that kibble wouldn't work

There are two three other options, though one might have been tried, though both would require feeding the diet that she does better on. .

The first option is that this is partly a staph infection, and treat with cephalexin. Might be available over the counter as a fish antibiotic, would have to look.

The second is that this is autoimmune. In this case, the antibiotic doxycycline (available as Bird Biotic) and the supplement niacinamide (not niacin, must be niacinamide) combine to treat this, to some degree. It is used in autoimmune consditions such as pemphigus. I would combine with MSM.

The third, may be tried alone, or combined with one of those above, is the most toxic trial. If this is yeast (or if yeast is made worse when given an antibiotic), ketoconazole can help. The problem with this is that keto is more toxic to liver and kidneys, though my dog's blood values didn't have any problem on it. It can also suppress the adrenal glands. But if there is yeast...

Again, these all involve costs and may not work.

I just feel terrible that you are in this situation, I am so very sorry. ((Hugs))
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  #49  
Old January 28th, 2012, 05:29 AM
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I've decided to put her on Innova Red Meat Only Grain Free kibble combined with plain yogurt, some added apple cider vinegar, and daily spray downs of 50/50 apple cider vinegar with baking soda. This will atleast fatten her up, but hopefully stop the itchies. I've heard this is an excellent combo in eliminating yeast infection in the intestinal, and urinary track. Do you think so?
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  #50  
Old January 28th, 2012, 10:11 PM
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You could try "Atopica" or at the very last option "Vanectyl P" I would try drugs before putting the dog down. My Boston has done very well on Vanectyl P, she may live a few less years but she is happy.
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  #51  
Old January 29th, 2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovNKyra View Post
I've decided to put her on Innova Red Meat Only Grain Free kibble combined with plain yogurt, some added apple cider vinegar, and daily spray downs of 50/50 apple cider vinegar with baking soda. This will atleast fatten her up, but hopefully stop the itchies. I've heard this is an excellent combo in eliminating yeast infection in the intestinal, and urinary track. Do you think so?
Maybe....always hard to tell.

Also hard to tell what type of kibble might work, if any at all. So if things don't work, it's hard to tell why.

Vanectyl P can be tried, particularly if you are getting to the last resort. I would very much hesitate to use Atopica, and if you are watching expenses, it may be too expensive anyway, even in generic form. If MSM is tolerated, it may help too.
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  #52  
Old February 29th, 2012, 04:03 PM
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Just an update.

I've switched her to the all red meat grain free kibble, and if anything it's definately helped with her weight. I'm also bathing her every 2 days with a yeast shampoo, and will be giving her rub downs of a cream for the same yeast thing. She seems to love the baths which is very weird considering she hates baths. Haven't had any success yet although she's only been on the kibble for 3 weeks, and the baths for 1 week. Her hair does appear to be growing back, and her sores are all but a rash now. I'm thinking this may be a yeast infection as she sweats in all the noted areas, and smells very bad! Fingers crossed!!!
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  #53  
Old March 1st, 2012, 09:04 AM
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If she smells, she has a skin infection and needs antibiotics. Have you looked into seborhea? I did it all and then some and resulted in Vanectyl P. My Boston likes her baths cause she got a good rub down soothing her itchies....
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  #54  
Old March 1st, 2012, 06:34 PM
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I am so glad that you found a dog food that is tolerated.

If it's yeast, often an anti-fungal is needed, and there might be a secondary bacterial infection. So tough going this alone. Is there anyway, even if you have to travel several hours for an initial visit, that you can find a derm in the area?
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  #55  
Old March 3rd, 2012, 01:50 PM
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I am so glad that you found a dog food that is tolerated.

If it's yeast, often an anti-fungal is needed, and there might be a secondary bacterial infection. So tough going this alone. Is there anyway, even if you have to travel several hours for an initial visit, that you can find a derm in the area?
Unfortunately no. I have 2 vets here with one not wanting to bother anymore with helping, and the other is a livestock vet who only treats farm animals such as horses, cows, and such.

I swear I try, and try, but it just feels like I'm fighting a losing battle. At the moment she seems to not be getting any worse, but nowhere near any better either. Now she has allot of flaking dandruf, and still continues to scratch, and chew. Should I increase the baths to every day? Is there an over the counter something I can get for yeast infections?
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  #56  
Old March 3rd, 2012, 03:09 PM
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LovNKyra, first off, hugz to you and your girl, the photo of her broke my heart, seems a lot of Pitties have skin 'issues', i am so sorry your girl is plagued with them.

my girl had sensitivities to corn and wheat that caused her to get hotspots and itch like crazy, i put her on the same food my Dobes are on, Purina Pro Plan salmon and rice and she never had anymore issues, though if she gets too many dog treats with wheat in them she will srcatch a bit.

when your Vet saw her did he do any blood tests to check her liver, kidney, thyroid, hormone levels, etc. ?

as to any of the herbal nervines helping..........is she a 'nervous' girl, does she have any anxiety issues?

as to a change in diet helping......sometimes it can take 3 to 6 months before the symptoms improve and or diminish.

the flaking skin now may be due to her skin healing and sloughing off the old/sick tissue, this in itself may be making her itchy too.

i do not like bathing a dog unless it is absolutely needed, it tends to wash off any natural oils that help protect the skin..............but, if you do need to bath her, use as little 'soap' as possible, preferably a natural one like Dr. Bronners liquid castile soap.

Lavender essential oil is very soothing for skin that is red, it will cool the skin as well as discouraging mites. You could try a few drops in a couple of cups of warm water and apply to her skin to help relieve the pain and heat of her skin. It will not hurt her if she licks it off either.

Another thing......sulphur remedies were used for years to treat skin issues ......some drug stores carry flower of sulphur, here is some info. on it.............http://knol.google.com/k/valerie-luk...ofq5cvpk6yl/1#

also............if you can find a supplement that has a lot of MSM (it is a form of dietary sulphur) in it, it will really help her a lot too. http://www.naturodoc.com/library/med...background.htm
http://www.ageless.co.za/herb-msm.htm
http://www.newdaynews.com/health/ind...rames/read/224
http://www.nutriteam.com/msm.htm
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  #57  
Old March 3rd, 2012, 03:57 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I swear I try, and try, but it just feels like I'm fighting a losing battle. At the moment she seems to not be getting any worse, but nowhere near any better either. Now she has allot of flaking dandruf, and still continues to scratch, and chew. Should I increase the baths to every day? Is there an over the counter something I can get for yeast infections?
I know that when vets are fighting a yeast infection, they do require special baths, rather frequently, but I don't know how often.

I know that Pau D'Arco gets at some yeast infections, but I don't know about this type. Oil of Oregano does too. I wonder about adding some coconut oil to the meals, since it is antibacterial and antifungal.

The following supplements come first to mind....

biotin for skin health
vitamin A, in the form of fish oil
vitamin E, mixed tocopherols, and.....

DarKeys mentioned hormonal issues, which made me think of melatonin. It is used in some special hormonal skin and fur issues that some dogs get called Alopecia X.

However, it can also increase IgA levels, and IgA is what is used to protect skin and mucous membranes. You might try adding 3 mg each night before bedtime (the natural time melatonin levels should rise). My boy was IgA deficient and I did this for him too. I think it helped. He was terminal, but we were able to keep him going for many many months.

I also think sulphur is good, either using a remedy, or even adding MSM.
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  #58  
Old March 11th, 2012, 12:43 PM
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OMG! I don't want to jinx anything so I'll say nothing more, and just leave you with these pics....





...and yes that is a shock collar, but before anyone gets all crazy let me explain. I used it to try, and keep her from leaving the yard, but it only worked when it was on her. As soon as I removed it all that progress was out the window. I've checked it, and while it is not a big shock I did not like using the shock part so instead I used the vibrate option. However, I now use the collar to stop/distract her from chewing or scratching, and it works 99% of the time.
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Old March 12th, 2012, 09:37 PM
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Don't jinx it...we're with you!

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Old March 20th, 2012, 02:53 PM
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hi, i have just "returned from the dark abyss..." lol and read all of this thread.. I have a lab with severe allergies, to all what i really have no idea, she is now almost 11 years old, and has been a battle for a long time, when her allergies flare up she will always come down with a yeast infection, especially in here ears..

I was wondering seen as you have tried so many options with her diet if you have considered if her allergies is environmental? one of the things that cause a severe flare up in my lab is metal, metal clasp on collar, metal food dish. one walk with a collar with any metal on it and weeks of suffering follow! eating out of a metal dish causes her nose to turn pink and hair to fall out..

I am just wondering if this is an option to explore? anything in her environment both indoors and outdoors.

I have found my dog does best when i know what goes in her, wheat and soy are huge no no's! So i feed her raw meat from animals that i buy from friends and orijen dog food is ok.

Good luck, i have been there and i know exactly how you feel. At times i felt very cruel wakling a dog that had hair loss and sometimes weeping sores and the look we would get, but for years we struggled through it. She still will flare up at times, but is a happy comfortable dog and so I will continue to do everything I can for her.

Also i know they did a skin scraping but was any form of dermatitis considered? perhaps it is a skin issue that needs topical treatment? good luck from the bottom of my heart!
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