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Old May 22nd, 2011, 09:22 PM
mike23 mike23 is offline
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My dog has kidney disease

My dog Prince had not been eating and so I took him to the vet. They took blood work and said he had chronic kidney disease, they said it wasn't acute and that he must have had it for a while but showed no symptoms. They are keeping him like 5 days to monitor, give fluids, antibiotics, etc. I went to see him and he looked fine, he was not as lethargic and was eating a little.

The vet has been calling to give updates and said he has not gotten better or worse, still very little appetite but walking wagging and moving well. They are saying maybe I should take him to place in columbus, ohio that could take a kidney biopsy, or ultra sound. She said the blood work for the kidneys wasnot "freakishly high" but high enough to make him feel bad and not eat. The fact he still isn't eating that much is worrying me terribly. She said it was not accute, and it is not failure. I just want to know what to expect. Is he going to die? Will he live normal? I am really kind of annoyed that they would keep him (4days now) then tell me maybe to take him to Columbus. The stay will be over $500 and if they would have told me that in the first place I would have taken him to Columbus, that way I would not have 2 enormous vet bills.

Please help if you can!

Thanks!
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 09:34 PM
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Welcome to the forum, Mike, although I'm sorry it's under such circumstances. How old is Prince?

I don't have any advice re kidney disease but I'm hoping someone with experience will come along soon and share their experiences with you. Did your vet go into any detail as to what may be causing it?
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Sadly he is only 3 years old, they said it could be genetic, it maybe he was exposed to something he was sensitive too. There is no way he had access to antifreeze, they kept asking that. I good them I gave ivomec orally(liquid) for years, and that I gave less than I was supposed to. They said he could have been sensitive to it but since I gave it so long she doubted it. She said it may be congenial, but she is not sure and is not equipped to do a biopsy, she gave an X-ray and said she couldn't see any abnormalities. Again, she said the values were not freakishly high, but high enough to make him lose appetite and so on. Just very worried. Said he is not getting worse, but not better. The same. He was excited to see us, walking fine and peeing fine. Just the whole not eating thing has them worried, me as well
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 09:47 PM
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Before you agree to the biopsy & ultrasound, have a talk with your vet or the one in Columbus about possible outcomes. Will the tests change the course of treatment?
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
Before you agree to the biopsy & ultrasound, have a talk with your vet or the one in Columbus about possible outcomes. Will the tests change the course of treatment?
Do dogs with kidney disease, not failure have the chance to live a normal life span? This is what I am losing sleep over. Thanks for the advice
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:41 PM
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Welcome to the board, mike23.

As for your question, I think it depends on the type of kidney disease, how much permanent damage there is and how well the dog responds to treatment. That would be a great question to ask the specialist. Not being vets and not having all the information, we can't even venture a guess.

I hope the vets figure out what's causing it or at least get your dog on an effective course of treatment soon!
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:47 PM
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Hi Mike. I'm sorry you are going through this with your dog. Especially at such a young age. It's tough.

This is an article about kidney disease in dogs. If you look under Prevention of kidney disease in dogs you will see in the first paragraph that it says dogs with chronic kidney disease can live for a long time with this illness.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/kidne...e-in-dogs.html

I would think now you should be researching the proper diet for your dog. A lot of times the health of our pets is directly related to their diet.
Raw would most likely be the best for him as it would give him more nutrients to help fight the disease. There is a sub forum here on Pets that has a lot of information on feeding raw to your dog. http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64
Hopefully finding the proper diet will help keep your dog with you for a long time.
There will be more knowledgeable folks along soon who have dealt with this issue personally and will be able to help you.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:48 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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If your vet cannot explain why treatment is taking longer than expected, go to Columbus and talk to a kidney expert. If they can come up with a successful treatment, then yes, some dogs will live a long happy life. Prince is no better, but no worse, either: if you have lost money in waiting, at least you have not lost time.
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Old May 22nd, 2011, 10:58 PM
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Here's a couple more sites to check out. Never hurts to educate yourself as much as possible when dealing with this or any disease.

http://www.2ndchance.info/homemadediets.htm

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html
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  #10  
Old May 23rd, 2011, 05:33 AM
mike23 mike23 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Hi Mike. I'm sorry you are going through this with your dog. Especially at such a young age. It's tough.

This is an article about kidney disease in dogs. If you look under Prevention of kidney disease in dogs you will see in the first paragraph that it says dogs with chronic kidney disease can live for a long time with this illness.
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/kidne...e-in-dogs.html

I would think now you should be researching the proper diet for your dog. A lot of times the health of our pets is directly related to their diet.
Raw would most likely be the best for him as it would give him more nutrients to help fight the disease. There is a sub forum here on Pets that has a lot of information on feeding raw to your dog. http://www.pets.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=64
Hopefully finding the proper diet will help keep your dog with you for a long time.
There will be more knowledgeable folks along soon who have dealt with this issue personally and will be able to help you.
They are pushing the prescription science diet k/d which is fairly expensive. I was looking to see if there was anything else that I could feed, even raw but everything I see just kind if says what they need in their diet l, but nothing specific. Like, I would like to know, or find something that says specifically what I could feed, like ground beef, potato, green bean, etc. It's hard to tell just by reading that they need so much fat, care, protein, etc. I will look around the site more after work. I'm going to see him after work, will update then.

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Old May 23rd, 2011, 11:08 AM
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I also failed to mention that during the time when he stopped eating, before taking him to the vet, he never once vomited or anything like that. It was just a lack of appetite. Thought I would throw that out there.
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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He is very handsome.

Lack of appetite depends on the dog. Is your dog the type to go off food easily? Or does he normally have a hearty appetite no matter what's going on in his life?
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 12:20 PM
mike23 mike23 is offline
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
He is very handsome.

Lack of appetite depends on the dog. Is your dog the type to go off food easily? Or does he normally have a hearty appetite no matter what's going on in his life?
He is the type to live the bowl for 20 minutes after the food is.gone. in other words, it was very strange to see him walk away without taking a bite
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 12:43 PM
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Mike is there anyway you can post the blood work values? I know that at least with cats you can tell some things from that. Maybe some of our members will be able you decipher it. I lost my male cat almost a year ago and we were able to tell from the tests about his bun & creatine levels.

Mike what do you feed now? Of course they are pushing the food but it is crap. All you have to do is look at the ingrediants to know that the quality is not great. A high quality diet is important with a pet with kd. Doesnt mean that you have to spend a fortune but quality matters. I would refuse the food until you have had he opportunity to investigate it further. Or get the smallest bag possible until you can find one better....( I hate to tell you to buy that crap but sometimes its hard when your first learning what good food is.)

I am thinking that the vets likely wanted to get some sub q fluids into your pup to help with the kidney function. Do you know if they are testing her after her stay?

What a sweetie pie by the way!

Cindy
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Old May 23rd, 2011, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Winston View Post
Mike is there anyway you can post the blood work values? I know that at least with cats you can tell some things from that. Maybe some of our members will be able you decipher it. I lost my male cat almost a year ago and we were able to tell from the tests about his bun & creatine levels.

Mike what do you feed now? Of course they are pushing the food but it is crap. All you have to do is look at the ingrediants to know that the quality is not great. A high quality diet is important with a pet with kd. Doesnt mean that you have to spend a fortune but quality matters. I would refuse the food until you have had he opportunity to investigate it further. Or get the smallest bag possible until you can find one better....( I hate to tell you to buy that crap but sometimes its hard when your first learning what good food is.)

I am thinking that the vets likely wanted to get some sub q fluids into your pup to help with the kidney function. Do you know if they are testing her after her stay?

What a sweetie pie by the way!

Cindy
All I know is that the creatine level was like 5.6, which, according to some things I read means that nearly 80% of his kidney's have been destroyed. I asked the vet this today while visiting and she said since he wasn't eating at all prior to the blood work, it could cause it to be high, they just did more blood work today and I will get the results tomorrow, I will try and post them, I do not have a scanner, but I will figure a way to post them. He actually ate a can of the prescription diet k/d while I was there today, but didn't want anything to do with the kibble.

I feed Diamond Naturals. It is wheat, soy, corn, and bi-product free and the first ingredients are meat, as opposed to regular diamond. They said that if the blood levels do not go down, then maybe I should go to Columbus to get a biopsy/ultrasound. But, if they stay the same aren't I fighting a losing battle? I just cannot believe that he is 3 and this is happening. He is the best dog and I am sick about the whole thing.
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Old May 24th, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Okay, he is home, still seems lazy and whatnot. Here is the first blood work and then the one that I got the results from today. She said that his kidney values have gone back to where they are supposed to be. I do not want to get my hopes up or anything but I assume that is a good thing. She said he can pretty much eat his usual diet, but I was wondering if there was anything I could make him that would be beneficial. She said his white blood cell and pancreas are both higher than normal as well but the kidney values are where they need to be. Please let me know any info you can give me.

Here is the first blood result

and her is the one after 5 days at the vets
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:48 PM
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Mike I have PM'd a couple of members in hopes they can provide some insite on the reports. Hopefully they will post soon!

Glad to hear he is feeling a bit better! its stressful on them when they are not at home too so he is probably gonna have to settle in again...
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Old May 24th, 2011, 08:49 PM
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Prince is a gorgeous boy!

Wonderful that the numbers of the bun and creatinine dropped drastically from extremely high values to within the normal range. This is very promising and, in my opinion, it could indicate that it might have been acute kidney failure rather than chronic as initially suspected. Did the veterinarian say anything to this effect?

The white blood cell count being high and the above normal amylase number is still concerning. I see Prince was put on antibiotics when in the hospital. Is he still taking them? Did the veterinary indicate what she thought might be causing the higher levels of white blood cells and amylase?

The good news is that if it was acute kidney failure, after success supportive treatment and treatment of the underlying cause, kidney function can, in many cases, return to normal with no lasting detrimental effects. Hopefully this will be the case with your boy. Acute kidney failure can result from various things including ingestion of toxic substances such as antifreeze or other poisonous substances, foods such as chocolate, raisins, toxic plants etc. It can also be secondary to some infections or even pancreatitis so it is important that any underlying illnesses have been treated. What medications, if any, did your veterianarian prescribe. I would watch him carefully for the next while and consider following up with further bloodwork in a few weeks to ensure everything has returned to normal.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike23 View Post
They are keeping him like 5 days to monitor, give fluids, antibiotics, etc.
Were the fluids given IV or Sub-q?

With Chronic Renal Failure if it was a couple of days of IV fluids, it is not unusual for the levels to rise back up again within a couple of days usually not as high but to a high-normal or just out of normal range. I would request a re-test in a week or two.

If the fluids were given subcutaneously for a couple of days I would say the levels after the 2nd test are in the area they will stay for a bit. If this is the case it's likely the dehydration and lack of food or pancreatitis caused higher numbers than normal for him.

Some info to help understand the values:

ALT -Alanine aminotransferase - An enzyme that becomes elevated with liver disease - elevation can also be caused by not eating

Amylase is a digestive enzyme made in the pancreas that breaks carbohydrates into simple sugars, it is excreted by the kidneys - it is not uncommon for elevation in crf and pancreatitis patients

Phosphorus - a mineral produced by the body, crf kidneys can't excrete phos properly therefore the levels will rise, can also be affected by changes in the amount of phos in the diet, or hormonal imbalances

Chloride & Sodium tend to fluctuate at the same time with Chloride following Sodium. - indicates water intake is not sufficient

Potassium - Essential electrolyte assisting in regulating nerve impulse & muscle contractions, blood pressure & heart function. With the Chloride & Sodium out of range sometimes you will see the Potassium & Bicarbonate fluctuate in response to Chloride & Sodium as the four electrolytes are connected
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Old May 25th, 2011, 05:45 AM
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She said something about possible pancreitis but wasn't sure, she also said I have to watch for auto immune disease because if the white blood cells.

He is on ciprofloxacin, doxycycline, and metronidazole

He is still acting the same though, real lazy and not real hungry. He doesn't want to seem to get up once he is laying down. Should I get him any vitamins it anything? He just wants to sleep and real picky about food. Only eats chicken treats not real interested in dog food. Has me worried even though his levels are back to normal. They said they will bring me back maybe Saturday to check again.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mike23 View Post
She said something about possible pancreitis but wasn't sure, she also said I have to watch for auto immune disease because if the white blood cells.

He is on ciprofloxacin, doxycycline, and metronidazole

These are all antibiotics to treat any infections that may be present.

He is still acting the same though, real lazy and not real hungry. He doesn't want to seem to get up once he is laying down. Should I get him any vitamins it anything? He just wants to sleep and real picky about food. Only eats chicken treats not real interested in dog food. Has me worried even though his levels are back to normal. They said they will bring me back maybe Saturday to check again.
Sounds like he may be experiencing some kind of pain or discomfort. If pancreatitis is a factor it can be quite painful. Since the vet is uncertain at this point what is causing the issues and pancreatitis is suspected, I would play it safe and stick to foods recommended for that condition, at least until you find out more about what is going on. That means small, frequent meals of foods that are lower in fat and do not overfeed. If the chicken treats are commercial they are likely high in fat so I would stay away from them for now.

The following webpage contains a whole lot of recommendations for both homemade and commercial foods for pancreatitis:

http://www.dogs-info.net/html/Feedin...h-Pancrea.html

I would stay away from dry dog foods entirely for now. Low fat canned dog foods or a homemade diet will help to ensure that he is getting enough liquids which is very important. Whatever the cause of his issues it is very important that he doesn't get dehydrated. Is he drinking water? You might want to try something like boiled hamburger or skinless chicken mixed with cooked rice for starters if you think he might like it. The website recommends that the rice be overcooked with extra water. There are a lot of other ideas on that webpage.

For vitamins, I would just go with a salmon oil supplement that also contains Vitamin E as recommended on the webpage. This can be beneficial for many conditions. You can get it from your vet or just get one for humans from a store that sells vitamin supplements.

If anything worsens, I would definitely consult with your vet and perhaps take him back sooner if necessary.

Sending that he starts to feel better soon and for good test results on Saturday.

Please continue to keep us updated.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 12:25 PM
mike23 mike23 is offline
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Originally Posted by growler~GateKeeper View Post
Were the fluids given IV or Sub-q?

With Chronic Renal Failure if it was a couple of days of IV fluids, it is not unusual for the levels to rise back up again within a couple of days usually not as high but to a high-normal or just out of normal range. I would request a re-test in a week or two.

If the fluids were given subcutaneously for a couple of days I would say the levels after the 2nd test are in the area they will stay for a bit. If this is the case it's likely the dehydration and lack of food or pancreatitis caused higher numbers than normal for him.

Some info to help understand the values:

ALT -Alanine aminotransferase - An enzyme that becomes elevated with liver disease - elevation can also be caused by not eating

Amylase is a digestive enzyme made in the pancreas that breaks carbohydrates into simple sugars, it is excreted by the kidneys - it is not uncommon for elevation in crf and pancreatitis patients

Phosphorus - a mineral produced by the body, crf kidneys can't excrete phos properly therefore the levels will rise, can also be affected by changes in the amount of phos in the diet, or hormonal imbalances

Chloride & Sodium tend to fluctuate at the same time with Chloride following Sodium. - indicates water intake is not sufficient

Potassium - Essential electrolyte assisting in regulating nerve impulse & muscle contractions, blood pressure & heart function. With the Chloride & Sodium out of range sometimes you will see the Potassium & Bicarbonate fluctuate in response to Chloride & Sodium as the four electrolytes are connected
I do not know what sub q is, but he was iv'd fluids, but not all day, like when I would visit, he wasn't hooked up. My fiance called and said he vomited this morning, that was the first time since any if this happened. He pooped and it was real dark, almost black. Could this be pancreitis rather than kidney disease? She mentioned something about possible pancreitis, but she is not sure. He is supposed to be tested again within the next few days.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 12:42 PM
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mike, you might want to have your fiance call the vet clinic and tell them about both the nausea and the black stool. Black tarry stools can indicate bleeding high in the intestinal tract and can indicate a serious problem. Does he seem to be lethargic still? Are his gums pale? If the answer to either of those is 'yes', then he probably needs to go back to the vet sooner than Saturday.

He's such a handsome boy! I hope the vets can get you some answers soon!
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Old May 25th, 2011, 12:48 PM
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He didn't poop at the at all, when he did yesterday it was black, but was not tary it looked normal and was hard, I thought maybe the meds did it. But yea he is still lethargic, just sits in one spot and doesn't wanna get up. I did leave a message about the black colored poop, no, his gums never became pale at all during any of this.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 01:50 PM
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I just spoke w/ the vet. She said he probably threw up because I gave him all of his meds at one time, Mr within minutes(2 at a time) and his poop could be dark from the pepto type medicine they had gave him. She said she spoke ti an internal med Dr who said he looks like he could be a Addison candidate? So I'm going back tomorrow for more woodwork and possibly treatment (injection) for Addison treatment. They can't really test for it now since he has had steroids recently. Also, he was in both iv fluids and sub-.q fluids
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Old May 25th, 2011, 03:36 PM
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Mike23 you have been given some great info! I am also happy to here that Prince will be getting checked on again especially since the black stool. I am wondering about the Addisons though? try googling it and read some of the info out there on Addison's. From what symptoms you have described perhaps there are some similar but Prince doesnt seem to have all of the symptoms thats all and its not really that common from what I have been reading??. Do you have a good relationship with this vet?

I am wondering if Prince is under alot of stress? he probably isnt used to staying at the vets, getting poked and proded so to speak? maybe he just needs a few days to come around? most dogs hate being there in the first place and secondly most miss their owners so that stress is hard on them?

I am hoping all works out and please keep us posted.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 05:42 PM
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She said she talked.to an internal med doc, they reviewed his blood work, she said it may not be Addison but quite a few if his levels were almost exactly what they would be at if he had Addison. This is what the internal Dr. Noticed and said it should be looked into even though it is rare. I'm going tomorrow so ill keep everyone posted. I appreciate all the advice
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Old May 25th, 2011, 06:04 PM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Originally Posted by mike23 View Post
She said she talked.to an internal med doc, they reviewed his blood work, she said it may not be Addison but quite a few if his levels were almost exactly what they would be at if he had Addison. This is what the internal Dr. Noticed and said it should be looked into even though it is rare. I'm going tomorrow so ill keep everyone posted. I appreciate all the advice
I did read that elevated potassium levels and reduced sodium levels can be indicative of Addison's disease. He may be onto something. Hopefully you will find some more answers tomorrow.

How is he doing now? Has he been able to eat and drink a bit since the vomiting episode?
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Old May 25th, 2011, 08:40 PM
mike23 mike23 is offline
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Originally Posted by mikischo View Post
I did read that elevated potassium levels and reduced sodium levels can be indicative of Addison's disease. He may be onto something. Hopefully you will find some more answers tomorrow.

How is he doing now? Has he been able to eat and drink a bit since the vomiting episode?
He is still sluggish, but he did eat about a half of a can of chicken from wellness and drank some water. She said since I gave him all of his pills (like 8) in like a 5 minute period, that is likely why he vomited, because it was like a half hour after I gave him the pills he puked.
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Old May 25th, 2011, 10:08 PM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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It makes sense that all those pills at once could have caused the vomiting.

Glad to hear that he is eating and drinking.
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"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

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