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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:28 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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The Litter That Was Supposed To Be

Eight weeks ago, my dog was diagnosed with pyometra, just days after she had been bred. For a breeder, that is a devastating diagnosis: in a matter of days, you switch from a healthy dog and dreams of her future puppies, to dealing with a sick loved one and the loss of the dream as well. Most vets play the odds, and when they find pyometra will spay the dog immediately. The rare vet who tries to choose the best candidates for antibiotic therapy will probably not choose you and your dog. If you are given that chance, your dog will still probably get worse instead of better, and need an emergency spay within a few days. Even if your dog does respond well to the antibiotics, scarring to the uterus may prevent her ever becoming pregnant in the future or carrying a litter to term. If she is already bred and pregnant when she develops the infection, chances of holding that pregnancy are next to none.

so


WHY?


you might ask


is this post


in the


pet photography


forum


???


Here they are, 4 little miracles.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:38 PM
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How wonderful...So how old will they be when you start showing them? I imagine champion Chi's are in high demand. I love seeing the momma dogs show pictures. When are you going to post them?
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Old May 10th, 2011, 12:28 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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How wonderful...So how old will they be when you start showing them? I imagine champion Chi's are in high demand. I love seeing the momma dogs show pictures. When are you going to post them?
LOL They were only just born, I'm looking forward to exciting dates like opening eyes, chewing mom's ears, and their first pees on grass. Haha. You just want to see me in the background and an identifying placard in the foreground. Not going to happen.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 01:02 AM
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Hmm not really interested in you...but that is OK if you won't post a championship picture. I am proud of my Tyra's show days. She did herself proud. Her whole blood line can be traced back for ever it seems. All her babies that showed, became champions as well. Her daddy was shown and used for stud all over the world.



AM.CAN.CH. WENRICK'S INSIDE HOLLYWOOD
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Old May 10th, 2011, 01:28 AM
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No there was just someone on here weeks ago desperate to find out where I lived and shopped and it just left me ... shall we say ... internet cautious. Tyra is beautiful! Is she the same dog in your avatar picture?
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Old May 10th, 2011, 01:32 AM
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No that was Sophie, she passed away in 2007. Her little heart caught a virus and enlarged her heart, I couldn't save her. SHe passed away in my arms...
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Old May 10th, 2011, 01:43 AM
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Aww, that's so sad.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 03:52 AM
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what sweet babies...so how is mom?? did/does the vet spay her right after pups?...will she be ok? will we see more pics as the pups grow up? *L*
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Old May 10th, 2011, 05:36 AM
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If that's the order they were born, Sam, mum must have got tired and didn't bother with the white on the last one's face. LOL. They're beautiful babes. I can smell the puppy breath from here.

Shay, is that you in the photo with your dog? Nice to put a face to the name if it is. It's a very glamorous Shih Tzu. I must check and see if her sire has litters registered here, what is his name? Is he Canadian or American?
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Old May 10th, 2011, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
LOL They were only just born, I'm looking forward to exciting dates like opening eyes, chewing mom's ears, and their first pees on grass. Haha. You just want to see me in the background and an identifying placard in the foreground. Not going to happen.
Why the paranoia of where you live. I am proud of where I live in the boonies of Oshawa.

You certainly posted for days 24/7 and then poof you were gone.... along with many members.......

Lovely puppies btw.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Why the paranoia of where you live. I am proud of where I live in the boonies of Oshawa.
As of right now 94 people have viewed this thread and I'm going to be poster #11. I can see why a breeder would be leery of having their exact whereabouts known. I stupidly frightened the breeders who own a training place I left my dumbbell at on Sat. when I wheeled in on Sun. to pick it up without notifying them first. Puppies on the big gated front porch, I could easily have grabbed one.

Cutie-pie puppies. I wish I could get a photo of a dog a new neighbour swears is a purebred Chi studdog. He doesn't look much like the little bit I can see of your Momma. Are there two types of Chi? Hers is quite a bit bigger than the one who comes to training. I'd have guessed hers is part terrier of some kind. Sorry, didn't mean to highjack.

Congrats on a successful outcome.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:04 AM
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SamIam, they are adorable, those little pink noses...I hope that Mom is ok now, I do not know anything about Pyometra but I imagine that the last eight weeks have ben very difficult. Congratulations and more pics as they grow please ..patti
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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It's amazing how you can tell individuals apart, even at that age! What sweet little faces! Just adorable, SIA!!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
If that's the order they were born, Sam, mum must have got tired and didn't bother with the white on the last one's face. LOL. They're beautiful babes. I can smell the puppy breath from here.

Shay, is that you in the photo with your dog? Nice to put a face to the name if it is. It's a very glamorous Shih Tzu. I must check and see if her sire has litters registered here, what is his name? Is he Canadian or American?
Not me..lol one of the owners... her daddy just passed away..I posted his picture in Pets that passed away. His full pedigree name is there. BIS BISS World Int Can Am Mex It Pol Lux Ch Wenrick's Hollywood Hit ROM 1997-2011

He was Canadian, but was shown an bred internationally...
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:52 AM
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SamIam, they are adorable, those little pink noses...I hope that Mom is ok now, I do not know anything about Pyometra but I imagine that the last eight weeks have ben very difficult. Congratulations and more pics as they grow please ..patti
http://www.peteducation.com/article....2+2109&aid=918

It is a potentially life threatening infection.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:21 AM
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what sweet babies...so how is mom?? did/does the vet spay her right after pups?...will she be ok? will we see more pics as the pups grow up? *L*
Mom and the pups are all doing wonderfully. When a dog has a c-section, you would usually have her spayed at the same time to avoid a second surgery later, but unless there's an emergency, you don't open up a dog right after she gives birth. At that time her uterus is enormous and very vascular, making it a higher-risk surgery; and as well it is harder on a dog to suckle puppies when she has an incision healing down the middle of her belly. Her infection cleared up ages ago, she whelped naturally, and is apparently perfectly healthy, so no reason to spay at this time. She should be just fine, but (of course) my vet and I will continue to keep a close eye on her.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:25 AM
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If that's the order they were born, Sam, mum must have got tired and didn't bother with the white on the last one's face. LOL. They're beautiful babes. I can smell the puppy breath from here.
Yes it is. And yes, pup #4 was born bum first, so that dark little nose was the very last part, I guess she just ran out of white paint, lol.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Mom and the pups are all doing wonderfully. When a dog has a c-section, you would usually have her spayed at the same time to avoid a second surgery later, but unless there's an emergency, you don't open up a dog right after she gives birth. At that time her uterus is enormous and very vascular, making it a higher-risk surgery; and as well it is harder on a dog to suckle puppies when she has an incision healing down the middle of her belly. Her infection cleared up ages ago, she whelped naturally, and is apparently perfectly healthy, so no reason to spay at this time. She should be just fine, but (of course) my vet and I will continue to keep a close eye on her.
thats interesting! thanks for answering, she's a lucky mom!!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:44 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Originally Posted by Longblades View Post
As of right now 94 people have viewed this thread and I'm going to be poster #11. I can see why a breeder would be leery of having their exact whereabouts known. I stupidly frightened the breeders who own a training place I left my dumbbell at on Sat. when I wheeled in on Sun. to pick it up without notifying them first. Puppies on the big gated front porch, I could easily have grabbed one.

Cutie-pie puppies. I wish I could get a photo of a dog a new neighbour swears is a purebred Chi studdog. He doesn't look much like the little bit I can see of your Momma. Are there two types of Chi? Hers is quite a bit bigger than the one who comes to training. I'd have guessed hers is part terrier of some kind. Sorry, didn't mean to highjack.

Congrats on a successful outcome.
Well hopefully you scared them into keeping a better eye on their puppies!!!

People will throw out three terms with chihuahuas, deer type, apple head, and tea cup. None of these is a specific type that you can get a true-breeding line for. Chihuahuas vary in size from 1 pound to 20 - although it would be rare to get a 1-2 pounder and a 10-20 pounder in the same litter, it is very common for the smallest puppy in the litter to mature half the size of the largest. Their shape varies from long and lean to compact and cobby to very dwarfish and bobble-headed - and again, although you wouldn't likely see two extremes in the same litter, you do get some variety. Ears and ear placement very variable. And coat type, even though there are two distinct types, short and long, there is a great variation in the texture and fullness of the coat, and I have even seen a wire-haired one who otherwise appeared to be purebred!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:00 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Originally Posted by pbpatti View Post
SamIam, they are adorable, those little pink noses...I hope that Mom is ok now, I do not know anything about Pyometra but I imagine that the last eight weeks have ben very difficult. Congratulations and more pics as they grow please ..patti
The first couple days was the worst, but the infection caused drastic behavioural changes in her, such as excessive drinking and no appetite. Once she was acting healthy, I was fairly confident our frequent rechecks at the vet wouldn't find the infection returned. I have to admit to a few nervous days in the middle when she had started gaining weight but wasn't confirmed pregnant yet, though!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:03 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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It's amazing how you can tell individuals apart, even at that age! What sweet little faces! Just adorable, SIA!!
LOL I was thinking the same thing, as one fawn after another was born, at least they have different shapes and markings on their faces!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:05 AM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Thanks for your compliments everyone!!!
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:30 AM
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It's a splendid outcome, and what fun you have ahead of you, SIA. I'll admit to being a bit green with envy.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 11:59 AM
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As of right now 94 people have viewed this thread and I'm going to be poster #11.
Most threads have multiple viewings with few replies. For instance my thread about Ace - 21/193. insitent's thinking between 2 breed(s) 13/188. Cerena's when drooling and weight loss becomes serious - 46/819. Don't quite get it? My feeling is that this thread is in the photo forum so people wanted to see pictures. 2+2 still makes 4 in my books. I don't think there were any dasteredly motives behind it.

Anyway, I'm glad the dog's "pyometra" was blown out of proportion. Just sorry she had to go through it. If she had been mine the moment that P word was mentioned she would have been spayed. But then again - had she been mine she wouldn't have been bred so I guess that's a mute point. Cute pups. I hope they all find excellent, forever homes soon.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:26 PM
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I am surprised that if that disease is so serious that u didn't have her spayed right away. Wasn't having her carry the pups to term and give birth putting a great strain on her already strained system?

Will the babies also not have trouble in the future because of the infection that was in their mom and probably flowing thru the uterus and into their organs and such too? You won't sell the babies as show worthy will u? Cause wouldn't they have a possibility of carrying something onto their babies if they wer bred? And isn't the whole point of breeding is to keep the line pure and strong? I don't know much about breeding but that only makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by Shaykeija View Post
Not me..lol one of the owners... her daddy just passed away..I posted his picture in Pets that passed away. His full pedigree name is there. BIS BISS World Int Can Am Mex It Pol Lux Ch Wenrick's Hollywood Hit ROM 1997-2011

He was Canadian, but was shown an bred internationally...
Woody passed away? Please tell me that's not true as he was Mindy's daddy too. He was such a beautiful dog! Mindy's babies are all over the world and are champions too. That is so sad.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 08:12 PM
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TQ, pyometra can be dangerous but obviously SIA is observant and caught it early enough for the Vet to bring about this miracle. I imagine that the decision to just agree with the vet to try and save the pups must have been a terribly hard one for SIA. It shows a great deal of trust in the Vet involved, which I think is great. If I were SIA I would run your theory about it effecting future generations by that vet, as I will by a couple I go to also. Is there a vet who would reply to this on the forum? It's an interesting subject. Not a situation many breeders find themselves in. I could be totally wrong but surely if it effected the pups she may have aborted them, or now we'd see fading puppy syndrome?
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:10 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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I am surprised that if that disease is so serious that u didn't have her spayed right away. Wasn't having her carry the pups to term and give birth putting a great strain on her already strained system?

Will the babies also not have trouble in the future because of the infection that was in their mom and probably flowing thru the uterus and into their organs and such too? You won't sell the babies as show worthy will u? Cause wouldn't they have a possibility of carrying something onto their babies if they wer bred? And isn't the whole point of breeding is to keep the line pure and strong? I don't know much about breeding but that only makes sense to me.
No. The best thing for a uterus that has had a pyometra is a pregnancy! The puppies were not infected, and show no sign of stunted growth or organ failure. They are strong, healthy, and thriving. This is not a congenital infection, and because it was cleared up weeks ago, the puppies were not exposed to it during their birth. Mom has so far proven herself to have a strong, healthy immune system.

None of my puppies will be bred unless they pass all relevant health and breeding soundness exams. This is not specific to this litter, it is part of my standard contract for those few homes that I approve on breeding agreements instead of spay/neuter.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:28 PM
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SIA...like I said I don't know much about breeding. But u said "No. The best thing for a uterus that has had a pyometra is a pregnancy!"

That to me sounds like if dog gets pregnant AFTER having the disease it will be ok for it to become pregnant, But NOT DURING the pregnancy.

Also.."The puppies were not infected, and show no sign of stunted growth or organ failure. They are strong, healthy, and thriving"

The pups would have been embryos 8 weeks ago, about 3 days old, so who knows what affect the disease has on embryos in that stage of development? Just because they are doing ok now does not mean in 1 or 3 years that something won't show up because of their beginning. And if they are bred that things won't show up in their children.

I would of been more interested in saving the Mother and protecting her than putting her thru a pregnancy. JMO
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Old May 10th, 2011, 09:52 PM
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TQ, pyometra can be dangerous but obviously SIA is observant and caught it early enough for the Vet to bring about this miracle. I imagine that the decision to just agree with the vet to try and save the pups must have been a terribly hard one for SIA. It shows a great deal of trust in the Vet involved, which I think is great. If I were SIA I would run your theory about it effecting future generations by that vet, as I will by a couple I go to also. Is there a vet who would reply to this on the forum? It's an interesting subject. Not a situation many breeders find themselves in. I could be totally wrong but surely if it effected the pups she may have aborted them, or now we'd see fading puppy syndrome?
I will definitely ask my vet if there are any concerns for the puppies' future that wouldn't be outwardly obvious as a failure to thrive, but let me know if yours have any experience to share, too. The antibiotics she was on from day 7-35 (Baytril tablets) have been clinically tested safe during pregnancy, so I'm not expecting any issues due to that either.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:10 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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SIA...like I said I don't know much about breeding. But u said "No. The best thing for a uterus that has had a pyometra is a pregnancy!"

That to me sounds like if dog gets pregnant AFTER having the disease it will be ok for it to become pregnant, But NOT DURING the pregnancy.

Also.."The puppies were not infected, and show no sign of stunted growth or organ failure. They are strong, healthy, and thriving"

The pups would have been embryos 8 weeks ago, about 3 days old, so who knows what affect the disease has on embryos in that stage of development? Just because they are doing ok now does not mean in 1 or 3 years that something won't show up because of their beginning. And if they are bred that things won't show up in their children.

I would of been more interested in saving the Mother and protecting her than putting her thru a pregnancy. JMO
Pyometra is not genetic and it is not viral. If you have a background in developmental biology that can explain what sort of problems would be hiding in these puppies for 1-3 years, or could skip a generation, please elaborate.

At no time did I or my vet make a decision that was not in the mother's best interests.
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