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  #31  
Old April 20th, 2011, 03:46 AM
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the woman gets no workers comp and that is the reason she is back at work, it doesn't prevent her from working, she is a single mom,
the owner of the dog is protesting the fine because she is on an old age pension and can't afford it, the dog is 12 yrs old and she is also protesting the muzzle because she can't find one small enough.
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  #32  
Old April 20th, 2011, 06:05 AM
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http://www.ottawasun.com/2011/04/19/...s-despite-bite


The owner of the Shih Tzu that attacked and disfigured a Home Depot employee’s face says she’s contesting the fine handed down by the city because she can’t afford to pay it.

“The little bit I do have, I’ll be needing forever,” said Odette Fournier, 65, who’s retired and living on a fixed income.

On Monday she was slapped with a $610 fine and ordered to keep her 12-year-old dog, Spot, muzzled at all times in public after bylaw officers investigated last Friday’s incident.

Anne Riel’s nose was bitten by Spot while she was working as a greeter inside an east-end Home Depot store.

Fournier said Spot has never hurt anyone before.

“I don’t think it’s a vicious dog. It’s just a pure, bad incident.”

The women aren’t strangers — for at least two years, they’ve seen each other around town.

“Her daughter, Gabrielle, has petted Spot before,” said Fournier.

Fournier said she’s not the one liable.

“I’m very sorry for her, but since it did happen in Home Depot, I think the Worker’s Compensation should cover it,” said Fournier.

Home Depot has a no-pets policy posted.

Despite the signage, pets are currently allowed in-store “as long as they’re under the control of their owners,” said manager of public relations, Tiziana Baccega.

“It has become socially acceptable to have dogs in stores. We’re looking at going back to a no-pets policy.”

They’re hoping to make a decision by Friday.

As for Riel, a single mother of two, she’ll need at least three more surgeries.

She has returned to work because she can’t afford to stay home.

For now, Riel isn’t being compensated for her workplace injury.

“There’s been no discussions around that,” said Baccega.

“She’s happily returned to work. There was no medical reason why she couldn’t so she chose to come back to the store.”

Riel told the Sun she was upset by the dog’s owner nonchalance after the attack.

“She never stopped to see if I was OK,” Riel said Sunday.

But Fournier said that just isn’t true.

“I felt sorry for her. I’m a human being,” she said.

“I asked the manager, ‘how is she doing?’”

Fournier said she’s appealing the muzzle order because she can’t find one small enough for a Shih Tzu.

Riel wants Spot put down.

And the city could decide to have the dog destroyed.

“It would be hard but if that’s the decision, that’s the decision,” said Fournier.

kelly.roche@sunmedia.ca
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  #33  
Old April 20th, 2011, 08:02 AM
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Riel wants Spot put down.

And the city could decide to have the dog destroyed.

“It would be hard but if that’s the decision, that’s the decision,” said Fournier.


Wow, she sounds like a real sweetie, this lady does...
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  #34  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:09 AM
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Who's the idot?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't call people Idiots
Dogs have been biting people from when they were let out of the Ark....
we all do our best to train our dogs not to, and try to "train" others not to pet our dogs etc.
But I cannot comprehend the lack of ANY sympathy for the woman who was permanently injured - it wasn't as if she kicked the dog!
If the woman had bitten the dog, if the dog had approached her to greet, boy, I couldn't wait to read the comments.
I just don't get it.

Last edited by hazelrunpack; April 20th, 2011 at 09:21 AM. Reason: You don't need to agree, but pls be civil.
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  #35  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:21 AM
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I agree IntheDogHouse!

If we have our dogs in public, regardless of breed/size/age/gender we have the RESPONSIBILITY to ensure safety to both people around our animal and our pets.

Any dog has the ability to react in any given situation, it's our job to ensure that this does not happen.

If our dogs bite anyone unwarranted, there is only one idiot in that situation and it certainly is not the victim.
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  #36  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:28 AM
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She will be compensated through workers compensation. She got injured on the job, I am an still upset...
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  #37  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:39 AM
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She will be compensated through workers compensation. She got injured on the job, I am an still upset...
Well I should hope she will be compensated, just as I would hope anyone who was injured by any animal would be looked after. I am sure you would feel the same if that woman was your Mother? Your sister? Your daughter? I know I would....

None of us were there...we do not know if the older woman told her it was "okay" to pet her dog; nor does the writing even state how long she was petting the dog. This greeter may have been petting her dog and everything was fine until she possibly leaned down closer.

Again, hard to say.

The owner of that dog clearly should not have one. To even just see something like that happen and walk away? The chances are high that this dog will do this again in that womans hands.

It's irresponsiblie pet owners like that who put a bad name on dog ownership and various breeds.
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  #38  
Old April 20th, 2011, 09:42 AM
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I personally would pay the fine and find a muzzle, I'm quite sure there are Tzu sized muzzles out there
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  #39  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:04 AM
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Lots of ways to interpret this. Personally, I place zero blame on the victim and feel she should of course be compensated. Petting a strange dog is not the best idea but it does not make you responsible for the outcome imo.....especially when the dog is in a store.

The primary blame imo is the dog's owner. Her dog. her responsibility. Period.
Don't bring it unleashed in public and there will be no issue. If the dog really had zero history of aggression, still too bad. Her dog. Her responsibility, period. The best child in the world that breaks a neighbor's window only once, or punches someone in the face only once. Parent's kid. Parent's responsibility, parent should pay damages, period.

The secondary blame is on the store because of their ridiculous and ambiguous policy. Without a doubt that will change really fast and imo it should. Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc. Of course this is all just opinion but i feel pretty strongly about it.
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  #40  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:30 AM
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Marko, the dog was not a "stranger" to her, if you read the last paper article you'll see where her daughter has pet the dog before when they've met on walks, Inthedoghouse, I have been saying all along that the woman bit is the victim. I feel for her and as of yet they aren't sure if she even WILL get workmans comp. it hasn't even been looked into yet at the time of the last article or according to the news last night
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  #41  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:34 AM
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Marko, the dog was not a "stranger" to her, if you read the last paper article you'll see where her daughter has pet the dog before when they've met on walks,
Mute point IMO. Unless you live with a dog, or spend quality time with it - it's strange to you.

Quote:
Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc.
Quote:
The primary blame imo is the dog's owner. Her dog. her responsibility. Period.
Well said.
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  #42  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:36 AM
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Woops missed that part. Doesn't change my opinion on anything though.
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  #43  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post

The secondary blame is on the store because of their ridiculous and ambiguous policy. Without a doubt that will change really fast and imo it should. Animals have no place in stores unless they are service animals. People have allergies, biting potential - etc. Of course this is all just opinion but i feel pretty strongly about it.
Agree with all you've said, Marko, but particularly about allergies. A friend's daughter is so allergic to dogs that if she is with them for any time, she almost scratches the skin off her arms. Fortunately she is a cat lover and is not allergic to them. We can't take animals into hotel or motel rooms here because of this sort of thing, although no-one is allowed to refuse a seeing eye dog entry. That's a hard one.
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  #44  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:36 AM
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no service animals can be refused here either, so that also brings up the point of allergies...such a touchy topic.
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  #45  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:42 AM
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This is slightly off topic and a difficult point - but i hope no store ever refuses a service animal based on the potential allergies of other customers.

For me, i think the ability of a disabled person to participate and integrate into society should supersede potential allergy issues. Allergy sufferers have meds if need be...but disabled people need their service animals to 'live'. If ONLY service animals are allowed in stores than this surely reduces airborne allergens (versus allowing all pets or "pets under control").
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  #46  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:51 AM
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I totally agree marko, there was a big 'to do" last year in ottawa when a bus driver refused entry to a service dog on the bus because of his/her allergies.
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  #47  
Old April 20th, 2011, 05:43 PM
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This is a really unfortunate incident. The majority of dog owners take the time to train their dog and keep it under control as needed. Then you get two owners in one week (in Ottawa) that take their dogs for granted, haven't trained their dogs and haven't kept them under control.

The real catastrophy here will be the outcome. The owners will get a slap on the wrist by the city, these 2 dogs will be back in public and others will be hurt. What is needed is huge increases in fines and punishments for irresponsible dog owners. If your dogs hurts someone or another dog, you get fined $1000s and are subject to criminal and civil actions.

The majority of dog owners will never feel these affects. The few irresponsible owners will pay dearly with large fines and court actions.

To the City of Ottawa, lets get with it and make the punishment fit the crime. Your dog bites someone, you car runs over someone...is there much difference?
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  #48  
Old April 20th, 2011, 06:21 PM
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dog bites womans

Wish I had been there to witness this as I understood the greeter put her face down to the dog, either way what is the first thing we teach our kids when approaching a dog: ASK if you can pet it, which the greeter didn't do so she got bitten.
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  #49  
Old April 20th, 2011, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
Shaykeija, understandable then how pb enthusiasts lose their sense of humour at the slightest hint of criticism of their breed? You are reacting to one or two comments, we should walk a mile in their shoes, the pb's have been targetted for how long now?
A girlfriend up the road has a Shih Tzu which is an alpha tyrant, and that's actually fantastic, it is teaching her GSD pup to behave, (invaluable) which must be hilarious to watch actually. Every other dog was getting barked at madly, I don't think the pup had been socialised, but the ShihTzu rules the roost and he adores her. The odd couple. My own alpha is the sweetest looking little golden sheltie, and darn her, she is just aching to send visitors packing. She has bitten a friend already, so who dares tell me to shoot her?? It's always the owner to blame, and that was my fault, I should not have let her out till he was gone.
More than one judge has told me that their worst dog for biting at shows is not a big one, it's the Chihuahua.
If there is a no dog rule at that store and the staff aren't told to enforce it, surely they should compensate her for what happened?

Thank you I will not explain about how we(pitbull owners) feel about this situation. I do not agree with your statement. WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl. Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident. A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.

Last edited by Pike; April 21st, 2011 at 06:46 AM. Reason: Unnecessary comment, please keep it civil.
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  #50  
Old April 20th, 2011, 07:28 PM
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Owner speaks out

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/04/20...er-fights-fine


Hey SHAY hopefully this makes you understand how this owner is and does not want to take any responsability.

Comments that i dislike:

Fournier said Spot has never hurt anyone before.

"I don't think it's a vicious dog. It's just a pure, bad incident."

The women aren't strangers -- for at least two years, they've seen each other around town.


"The little bit I do have, I'll be needing forever," said Odette Fournier, 66, who's retired and living on a fixed income.


Fournier said she's not the one liable.

"I'm very sorry for her, but since it did happen in Home Depot, I think the Worker's Compensation should cover it," said Fournier.

Home Depot has a no-pets policy posted.
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  #51  
Old April 20th, 2011, 10:17 PM
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I agree to everything here. Life is wonderful.. Peace out. I was so uniformed I shocked myself, thank you all..
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Last edited by Shaykeija; April 20th, 2011 at 10:48 PM.
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  #52  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:22 PM
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Tell me, is the catch cry 'Blame the deed, not the breed' universal, or only used down here? Kudos to whoever thought of it.
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  #53  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:25 PM
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It is universal, from what my poor feeble mind remembers....I am thinking and perhaps Hazel can find it for you, there is an old link some where back in the archives.
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  #54  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:25 PM
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Wow... no one's "the winner" in this story. And sadly, it hasn't brought out the best in *us* here either.

I certainly feel for the woman who got bit but, I'm also thinking about the SIXTEEN year old Shihtzu. If this owner "cannot" afford the $610 fine how is she affording veterinary care. After all, at that advanced age with no (alleged) prior behaviour who is to say this little one isn't demonstrating dementia or thyroid-induced (or other illness-induced) behavioural changes. I'm referring to the dog of course.

I'm not sure I understand Shay to be saying that the owner isn't or shouldn't be held responsible Brandon. What I believe is her point (and Shay please feel free to correct me here) is that as the general public has a responsibility in how they conduct themselves in the presence of animals. I know I find more and more parents are stopping their children and making them ask me first if it's okay to.... slobber all over my dogs.
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  #55  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:27 PM
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That was the essence, and I do not let anyone touch my FOUR dogs when I am out. Am I afraid of my dogs biting. No I do not like kids or adults touching anything that belongs to me..
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  #56  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
Tell me, is the catch cry 'Blame the deed, not the breed' universal, or only used down here? Kudos to whoever thought of it.
Nope it's everywhere. We use it widely in our BSL efforts in Ontario and all the world wide BSL groups I belong to/ subscribe to use it as well.
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  #57  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:31 PM
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I think many are at fault in this situation, and I can see where this topic could become very heated. But Brandon, one thing I will say is you are out of line with Shay. You obviously don't know her. She is one of the last people who would say to put any dog down, regardless of breed. As for the owner, I think she should definitely take some responsibility here, she seems to come across as very callous toward the whole incident. The employee, if she did reach for the dog without permission would also carry some on the blame in my book. And the store... well, they are just as much at fault. The only one who shouldn't get the blame is the dog. He's a dog.... it's the people who are irresponsible. Just my
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  #58  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:40 PM
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Thank you, as most of the newest members don't know me, IF that dog were to be slated for death, I would move heaven and earth to get it here to Shayker's Haven. And if not here to another rescue. I have helped move endangered dogs out of this f&*^ province, spent thousands of dollars on vet bills and never had to burden you all with my sad stories. You only get to hear the happy stories, I will not burden you with the story of a male shih tzu that was used repeatedly as a sex toy. I will not tell you how much money we spent to have his rectum rebuilt. I will not burden you with when this poor soul sees a man he freaks. Literally poops and pukes at the same time. He now lives with 2 women and has a women vet. If I sound cranky I frigging am. All life is precious, I would never put a dog down if I could help it.
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  #59  
Old April 20th, 2011, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija View Post
Thank you, as most of the newest members don't know me, IF that dog were to be slated for death, I would move heaven and earth to get it here to Shayker's Haven. And if not here to another rescue. I have helped move endangered dogs out of this f&*^ province, spent thousands of dollars on vet bills and never had to burden you all with my sad stories. You only get to hear the happy stories, I will not burden you with the story of a male shih tzu that was used repeatedly as a sex toy. I will not tell you how much money we spent to have his rectum rebuilt. I will not burden you with when this poor soul sees a man he freaks. Literally poops and pukes at the same time. He now lives with 2 women and has a women vet. If I sound cranky I frigging am. All life is precious, I would never put a dog down if I could help it.
Shay, what you have done, and continue to do, is amazing! You're a wonderful person


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  #60  
Old April 21st, 2011, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon W View Post
....Sad part is this shih tzsu tht you are defending, will probably still be able to live after this incident.
I hope I misunderstand you Brandon. I've never heard Shay, or anyone else on this board in recent YEARS advocating that a pitbull be euthanized for involvement in a similar situation. And, it grieves me greatly to hear you think it to be "sad" that any dog, regardless of breed, would be able to continue to live after being involved in a similar situation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon W View Post
WE are not saying kill all shih tzus we are trying to bring light on the situation of the bsl..... A pitbull wouldnt no questions asked....so please please dont think for a second we are trying to degrade a specific breed.
I personally found the ban and kill comments "making light" to be in extremely poor taste, offensive actually. I don't think anyone of us, particularly those of us involved in rescue and / or in BSL work need to attack or denigrate other breeds. And that was certainly what I read in several of the posts. What we do need to do is educate ourselves and each other AND Fatima Q. Public about animal behaviour.

Last edited by Pike; April 21st, 2011 at 06:48 AM. Reason: Removed original quote per edit of post.
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