Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 8th, 2011, 11:37 PM
Thor's Pet Thor's Pet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 54
Question It's down to two choices...pen or muzzle.

Well update on Thor's destructive ways...
He's chewed half way thru a lap top cord(I now remember to put that up when I'm not home).
He chewed ALL the way thru my bf's ethernet cable for his xbox360.
He's destroyed one of my favorite summer shoes(didn't even get to wear em this year either! ugh!)
He's made FOUR holes in the carpet.
He's chewed the bottom of one of my kitchen table chairs.
He's stained my carpet in more places then I care to admit!(He hasn't even hit the pad ONCE in the last 3 days, after being like 95% trained to the pad...so wtf!?)
Basically if it was just the staining of the carpet I could deal with it(we plan to buy a steam cleaner)....but he chews ANYTHING you happen to forget down, or anything the cat knocks down to him....my shoes, well he managed to squeeze thru a hole I didn't notice in the gate where it met the wall, went into my walk in closet, and ya...kinda glad it was just ONE pair...altho figures it would be the ones I liked the most!
It's not due to lack of toys...he has about $150 worth in toys...I've tried everything from rubber, to rope, to plastic, to stuffed. Seems destroying things are WAY more fun.
So bf and I talked...we can't allow this much longer....so going to talk to the vet weds, and see the pros and cons about a muzzle on a little guy his age. That way he can still run free, but can't do damage.
Altho with a muzzle on, it means he can't play like he's use to....so I'll admit, I'm leaning towards transforming our gates into a puppy pen(they're metal cube thingys...lol)....so recommendations on pen sizes?
With the amount of cubes I have, if I go 2 ft high(he's learning to jump a little now, so gotta go higher then I have now for gates to be safe...he hasn't jumped them yet, but will soon I think)...I can make a cage about 5ft by 5ft....would that be ok for a 5 month old jack/pappillon??
I wish I could keep him free range in the living room/kitchen...but I can't, not without risking my home or things...and not without risking his health...cause one of these days what he destroys could hurt him!
I'm at a loss what to do anymore....I love him to death, but he's DESTROYING everything!
Angie
And it's not due to lack of exercise...I play approx an hr with him each night, AND we take approx an hr walk each night(he usually tuckers at the 45 min to hr mark).
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 8th, 2011, 11:46 PM
mummummum's Avatar
mummummum mummummum is offline
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Hammer
Posts: 8,535
Muzzling a dog for extended periods is not a good idea. It's simply too dangerous. If he vomits he may choke. he cannot drink with a muzzle on. He could get the muzzle caught on something. Excessive rubbing/ abrading his snout etc. etc. .....

Creating a puppy-proofed, hazard-free zone with X-pens or jerry-rigging with gates is a good idea!

Some breeds/ dogs are more prone to chew and mouth than others ~ you may just have the "pick of the litter there". Some where in Pets is a thread about our destructo-puppies/ kitties and all the household goods we have gone thru with them.

I know the puppy-years are tough. Hang in there!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 9th, 2011, 12:00 AM
Thor's Pet Thor's Pet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 54
Thats what I thought....hense why the bf and I just had the discussion of a pen. Not sure exactly where yet tho...debate is between the dining area, or in the living room(with it being lined fully in puppy pads)...in the dining area means moving our table to the spare room for now(which the bf is bawking at)....so he wants the living room.
I just know we have to decide by sunday....as that's when it'll be resurrected...as bf is home the next 2 days, so no need for Thor to be in it...as when we're home, besides the not going on the pad, he's good as gold! He knows better. We just look at him, and he stops dead...lol
I just thought I had it bad enough with 1 cat that LOVES wires....if you leave head phones, phone chargers, etc(anything with smaller wires) she destroys them!...and another cat that LOVES to eat your bread, oatmeal,pasta, etc(anything with a plastic bag)....and now I have a puppy that destroys everything they miss....sigh...only me!
lol it's laugh, or cry...and frankly, I'd rather laugh...cause yes, they try my patience, and can surely make me wanna cry sometimes, but at the end of the day, when all climb into bed with us, you can't help but smile at your family, and love we all share.
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 9th, 2011, 12:40 AM
mummummum's Avatar
mummummum mummummum is offline
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Hammer
Posts: 8,535
Well there you go Thor ~ we haven't had a thread like that in awhile. Why don't you start us off? I will warn you though.. a "Things My Animals Have Destructo'd" is NOT for the faint of heart but it is good for the funny bone. Mine got a darn near an entire couch.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 9th, 2011, 12:44 AM
mummummum's Avatar
mummummum mummummum is offline
-
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: The Hammer
Posts: 8,535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor's Pet View Post
Thats what I thought....hense why the bf and I just had the discussion of a pen. Not sure exactly where yet tho...debate is between the dining area, or in the living room(with it being lined fully in puppy pads)..
Washrooms and laundry rooms are often a good option as they are tiled/ concrete and easy to clean with nothing to chew but metal/ porcelain.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 9th, 2011, 02:40 AM
reanne reanne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 171
There is also the option of a crate and you can get one a little bigger than he would need as an adult. Cord chewing can lead to electrocution, not to mention the risk of ingesting a foreing object with his chewing and destruction. Protect your puppy! Long periods of crating are not idea, but it's a lot safer than eating everything in your home, plus they are great for traveling and other big changes in their lives. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 9th, 2011, 05:28 AM
Tundra_Queen's Avatar
Tundra_Queen Tundra_Queen is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 5,603
Hi

I see u mentioned him peeing on carpets. I was told when I got Mindy last year that to dogs who are pee pad trained a carpet to them looks like a huge pee pad. So that is why Thor is probably peeing on the carpets.

I know for cats if they chew on wires u can spray a bitter apple on them and they usually leave them alone...I don't know about dogs.
__________________
~Friendship is like a bank account. You can't continue to draw on it without making deposits~


~Tegan 9 year old yellow lab~
~Wilbur 9 year old LH cat~
~Mirabelle 18 mos dsh~
~O'Shawnnessey 18 mos dsh~
~Darby 1 year old dsh~
~Mindy 7 yr old shih tzu~
~Dexter 10yr old Salmon (large goldfish)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 9th, 2011, 03:25 PM
Brandon W Brandon W is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
Hi

I see u mentioned him peeing on carpets. I was told when I got Mindy last year that to dogs who are pee pad trained a carpet to them looks like a huge pee pad. So that is why Thor is probably peeing on the carpets.

I know for cats if they chew on wires u can spray a bitter apple on them and they usually leave them alone...I don't know about dogs.

ohhh haha it works with dogs. I havent met one that has liked that stuff yet! Thats is actually a pretty decent idea. They usually grow out of chewing. Lola was the same,she got out of her crate a couple times(smart little bugger) and destroyed pretty much everything on the ground lol. Pillows,cords,knoced garbage over tore apart that haha.You name it she destroyed it. Even my ex's hand made moccasins with fur on them. This happened a good half a dozen times where she went on these "sprees". Just keep on him,if you catch the behavior then address it and give him a toy instead(play for a good 5 mins) then tell him good if he is playing with that. Lola ended up growing right out of it. Shes great now! Good theory on the peeing on carpet. Lola didnt have a lot of carpets to pee on,just the one at the front door. If she was not near the pad,she would go there most of the time. Sucks but you might want to roll them up and put em away for a bit. Up to you tho,just till he gets the idea of going on the pad,then eventually outside.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 9th, 2011, 06:37 PM
luckypenny's Avatar
luckypenny luckypenny is offline
Doggie Wench
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St. Philippe-de-Laprairie, Qc
Posts: 11,813
Having a puppy in the home is the best time to practice immaculate housekeeping skills . It's a great idea to get on your hands and knees and puppyproof by removing anything andeverythin your little guy can get his mouth on. He can't tell the diffentce between his toys and your stuff, it's all the same chew stuff for him. A pen is a great idea for those times you can't supervise.

I would also bet that if you got up 1 hour earlier in the morning and spent it walking/running/playing with him, chances are he'll spend most of the day asleep while you're away. Give it a try for a week and see how it goes.
__________________
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance." -Will Durant
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 9th, 2011, 07:02 PM
Brandon W Brandon W is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Having a puppy in the home is the best time to practice immaculate housekeeping skills . It's a great idea to get on your hands and knees and puppyproof by removing anything andeverythin your little guy can get his mouth on. He can't tell the diffentce between his toys and your stuff, it's all the same chew stuff for him. A pen is a great idea for those times you can't supervise.

I would also bet that if you got up 1 hour earlier in the morning and spent it walking/running/playing with him, chances are he'll spend most of the day asleep while you're away. Give it a try for a week and see how it goes.

good call,we learned all this the hard way haha :P
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old April 9th, 2011, 10:36 PM
ScottieDog ScottieDog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 413
My first post in the training forum too. Eight month old puppy on my end, so I'm guessing you know why I'm reading here too.

Ozzie, our Scottie pup went into an XT Play Yard toddler pen. It was plastic, but they do come in metal as well. The pen had six sides and made a wonderful play area. ( Link to show photos: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00020L78M/...l_8d0qm6rfna_e ) This play pen saved my sanity. I needed to cook supper, put the pup in his safe play pen and give him his toys. I wanted a nap, put the puppy in the play pen. I wanted a bath... you get the idea. I needed a place to keep him safe. This worked so well and gave him enough room to play and sleep. I started with crate training, but a week after he came home, he ate something in the back yard and got very sick in the crate. He developed a fear of the crate. The playpen fixed that. Gradually, I began to feed him in the crate and he loves it now which is great since he has outgrown his playpen.

You really don't want to muzzle him. Check into a play pen. It took Ozzie several months to be able to jump out. When you finish with it, gift it to a friend or a puppy rescue. When you want to give him more freedom in the house, try doing the umbilical leash method. Keep his leash on him and attach the other end to a clip on your belt loop. If Thor is only six feet or so away, he won't be chewing your shoes and you can pick up on his elimination cues. You have to watch them constantly or have them in a safe area. It is worth trying the bitter apple spray. I had to saturate the fringe on my area rug since this was the favorite chew area. Good luck. He will grow up so soon. (Simple Solution or Nature's Miracle enzymatic cleaners can do wonders on the carpet BTW. For stubborn stains, Resolve pet cleaner spray also works.)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old April 10th, 2011, 09:11 AM
Masha's Avatar
Masha Masha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 745
Definitely play pan is better than a muzzle... puppies can become little when left to roam the house...
__________________
Mommy to two amazing boys and one awesome girl:

Monkey and Amy (cats)
Jermy (GSD)


“Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God.”

"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old April 10th, 2011, 04:28 PM
Brandon W Brandon W is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masha View Post
Definitely play pan is better than a muzzle... puppies can become little when left to roam the house...
Little devils are an understatement haha! Lola honestly was out of control lol,but now she is such an angel. It was well worth it !
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old April 10th, 2011, 06:03 PM
Masha's Avatar
Masha Masha is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 745
yeah our guy was a little terrorizer too, but he grew out of it as well, now he wants to play, hugs and kisses and all the good stuff and none of the destruction
__________________
Mommy to two amazing boys and one awesome girl:

Monkey and Amy (cats)
Jermy (GSD)


“Dogs believe they are human. Cats believe they are God.”

"The average dog is a nicer person than the average person."
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old April 10th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Thor's Pet Thor's Pet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon W View Post
ohhh haha it works with dogs. I havent met one that has liked that stuff yet! Thats is actually a pretty decent idea.


Good theory on the peeing on carpet. Lola didnt have a lot of carpets to pee on,just the one at the front door. If she was not near the pad,she would go there most of the time. Sucks but you might want to roll them up and put em away for a bit. Up to you tho,just till he gets the idea of going on the pad,then eventually outside.
My mom's dog Trixie LOVES the stuff...you'd spray what areas she'd chew...she'd stop chewing it just long enough to lick off all the spray, then chew again...haha Altho that was 16 yrs ago, so the spray could be different now...

As to rolling up the rugs, can't....they're the actually floor covering...meanin the apartment is all rug(except bathroom and kitchen/dining area)...the rug by the door that we had use to be his fav spot...could count on a present there EVERY time you came home....that rug made friends with the dumpster pretty quickly...lol

What's frustrating....if I'm home he's GREAT...he'll only have 1, maybe 2 accidents all day, and hits the pad the rest....but when i'm not home, he hits everywhere BUT the pad....ugh!
It's the same with the chewing, if I'm home, he doesn't even try(ok, maybe once, twice max, which I then replace the chew object with a toy) but overall he's GREAT....
It's just when I'm NOT home that he goes evil...lol

I've thought of a crate, or such, but he'd howl bloody murder....trust me...he's does it if I so much as go to close the door on his crate. He'll go in, he'll even sleep in it, but if I so much as make a move towards it while he's in there, he bolts like his butt caught fire...lol
Heck, I can't even leave the room without him howling the place down(like when I try to go to the bathroom...and leave him in his penned off area of the living room/kitchen)...
He's just WAY to attached to me...I don't know how to break it...tried treats, they worked the first few times, then he caught on....and just drops the treat, follows me as far as he can, then starts....I tried toys, while he's sleeping, etc NOTHING works...sigh...he'll be at that gate, regardless, whining and howling...sigh.

Altho when I leave the apartment, he's fine....no whining or howling behind me....so I guess that's good. Won't disturbing my neighbours that way.
But ya....I'm just hoping the pen idea will work, without him freaking out.
Cause my apartment looks like a big dog lives here....when in fact it's just a little 5lb jack/pappillon.
So what age does the "puppy stage" end???lol
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old April 10th, 2011, 10:05 PM
Dee-O-Gee's Avatar
Dee-O-Gee Dee-O-Gee is offline
You can call me DOG!
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Niagara, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor's Pet View Post
So what age does the "puppy stage" end???lol
Our Mollie will be 2 in June and she's still crated when we go out. She enjoys sleeping in the crate with the door open when we're home and we're fortunate she likes the crate when we're not home.

We covered her crate with a dark old sheet which I think helped alot and the crate is located in the our livingroom where we all sit. We've had 2 dogs and 1 cat all sleeping soundly in the crate at the same time!

Chewing: From our past experiences, we've used wedges of lime as a distraction to chewing/biting. Keep a piece of it within arms reach and if you catch Thor chewing on anything, gently squeeze the juice from the wedge while rubbing it gently on his nose. Chewing/biting and lime wedges lasted up to approximately six months of age before breaking that habit.

As far as puppy stages....it gets better after a couple years.
__________________
A dog wags his tail with his heart
Dogs have Masters--Cats have Staff

Rest in Peace Bailey: 12/10/95-1/9/09 (Golden Retriever)
Rest in Peace Kitty: 7/1/2000 - 10/7/2013
Gryphon (sounds like Griffin): 10/14/2004 (English Springer Spaniel)
Bella: 3/09/2005 LHD Cat adopted by/from Child
Mollie: 6/2/2009 (English Setter)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old April 10th, 2011, 11:47 PM
Thor's Pet Thor's Pet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Edmonton Alberta
Posts: 54
I tried the crate beside my bed, blanket covering it, with my fingers sticking thru the bars, while softly talking to him, all while he howled.....until 2:30am(we put him in the crate at 12 midnight)....before that he was ok with being in it, even with the door closed for about 5 or so minutes, or sleeping with no problem....but that night has made it IMPOSSIBLE to even get him near it at the same time I am....he knows if I'm coming to it, it's to shut the door....and he HATES HATES HATES being separated from me when I'm home.
Heck, I can leave him in the room with my bf, and he STILL whine and howls at the gate for me...bf leaves the room, it's like meh, whatever....it's like UGH!lol
If you let him howl he generally stops after 10 mins, IF you make NO sound....if you make so much as a peep, you're screwed...lol...and he's also ok if he hears you in the shower, but from 30 seconds after the shower ends, til you get out back into the living room he howls....
It's like having a baby that you can never put down or else they scream....only at least him, I don't have to physically have to have him near me, he's content as long as I'm accessable if he needs me...
He could be dead to the world, but if I get up, he's awake and right behind me....
It's frustrating....lol

And better after a couple YEARS! ugh geez...lmao!
So basically I'll be just getting Thor outta the distroying my house kinda thing, to be bringing in a baby to do it(as the bf and I plan to start planning for a family in about a yr).
My life is just GRRRRRREAT!hahahaha
Oh wells...like I tell the bf...Thor's just a test run on kids...if we can't handle a puppy there is no way we'll handle kids....his reply tho "ya, but the kid won't eat the carpets..."...lmao!
But ya, took Thor for a NICE LONG WALK....2 hrs worth...he is out cold right now...haha...about an hr in, he was begging to be carried(he jumps my legs when he wants to be carried) and I just ignored him....usually after walks we come home and play...but not today...he's curled up and out cold...haha
But he did good...even made friends with 2 other dogs while out....altho the huge german shepard kinda scared him at first...but afterwards, they were nose to nose without issues on either side!
Cutest was the other puppy tho....who was 4 times Thor's size....Thor was SO excited tho, as was the other puppy, and us owners were just laughin at their antics...lol
But ya...today was a good day....Thor and I just spent the day playing, snoozing on the couch, then took a nice long walk....about time we got just so "chill time"...more so me...so ya....we're calmer today...or at least I am...I got to see the "good" side of having a puppy today...cause watching him with that other puppy such gave me some really good laughs!
Angie
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old April 11th, 2011, 12:22 AM
reanne reanne is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 171
Do some research on proper crate training and try that. Make sure he gets lots of exercise that includes free play AND leash walking/training. You need to find a way to keep him safe as well as save your house. Also with regard to the accidents while you're at home, the umbilical training will help with that, as does being proactive-take him out immediately upon waking, after feeding, before and after play, etc.
Also, if he can't be separated from you when you're home, it sounds like you need to do some work on that.
Remember that our dogs' issues are manifestations of things that WE are doing or not doing. Yes, puppies are naughty, but continued bad behaviours are usually our own faults.
Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old May 8th, 2011, 07:50 PM
MyBirdIsEvil's Avatar
MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
I tried the crate beside my bed, blanket covering it, with my fingers sticking thru the bars, while softly talking to him, all while he howled.....until 2:30am
That is a problem. You have to IGNORE howling and barking in crate. Talking to them gives them positive reinforcement. They want attention, they howl, you talk to them, thus giving them attention. That's a no no.
It's kind of like weaning a baby, or teaching them to sleep in their own room. If they cry and you go pick them up and let them suckle, why would they ever stop crying? They know crying will get you to come and feed them or hold them.
Some dogs may howl in the crate every day for weeks until they finally understand they will not be let out. Put them in their crate at the EXACT same time every night, and let them out at the EXACT same time every morning, no matter how much noise they make. MOST dogs will learn that the howling is futile because they are always left in the crate between the same times no matter how much noise they make. Most people that say "my dog just won't stop howling" simply are giving in to the dog before the dog gives into them. Some dogs have a massive amount of patience, so if they know you'll give in first they will make noise until you do.
In light of you planning a family, I'd suggest you figure this out now, since a child will be much smarter and more manipulative .

You're lucky as far as the chewing. I got a dog that will chew anything and everything, and also swallow dangerous items when unsupervised. We first started by locking her in the laundry room at night, until she decided she was going to eat the panelling off the walls, the exterior of the closet door, and chew a large hole through the sheet rock (and it's thick sheet rock...).
On the plus side, now my cats have a nifty little hole to enter through .
Last time she got left out of her crate (not by my fault, my friend let her out to play with her when I was gone, then didn't shut the door good), she chewed up a very large patch of vinyl flooring (so yeah, leaving them on vinyl flooring isn't necessarily safe either ).
So if you have a dog like mine, you're pretty much just going to have to crate her. And use a really sturdy crate, possibly with zip ties, because mine will actually claw at the metal crate enough to partially break it down and squeeze out. She can also open the latches, so those need to be clipped shut. Though she is apparently ok in her plastic crate and hasn't gotten out of it yet.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old May 26th, 2011, 12:08 PM
H.P.'s Avatar
H.P. H.P. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VA
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor's Pet View Post
he HATES HATES HATES being separated from me when I'm home.
He probably HATE HATE HATES it when he is separated from you when you are gone, causing him stress, resulting in his destructive behavior. Check out the threads about separation anxiety, sounds like you may have a case, and it is, in my experience, fixable, but takes some work. Good Luck!
__________________
Jo side of the road cat
Allie the shy dog
Benny the failed foster
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 10.00%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.