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Old March 21st, 2011, 06:50 PM
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Jessie and Simon - advice needed

Jessie is such a smart little girl, she knows how to sit, shake, lie down really well and is learning to scratch at the back door to go out and/or ring a jingle bell hanging from the door knob if we don't hear her. She knows "leave it" for things like electric cords.

We are working on stay out of the cat box - can't say we've mastered that job, yet.

What I am asking for advice on is how to keep her from constantly hanging on to and bugging Simon. She doesn't listen well when they are playing. He makes it worse, he loves to play with her, so after we get her to "break" he takes a toy to her to play.

How do I discourage her from the constant play when we ask, but still encourage them to have play time? I just want her to "break" when we ask, but not stop them from ever playing.

Looking forward to advice from smarter folks than me.

Diane
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Old March 21st, 2011, 07:05 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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She knows "leave it" for things like electric cords.
Oh that brings back such a memory... The morning after, a good half dozen beheaded and betailed... Sigh.

Can you give me a bit more background on age, sex, and breed for both?
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Old March 21st, 2011, 07:14 PM
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Oh that brings back such a memory... The morning after, a good half dozen beheaded and betailed... Sigh.

Can you give me a bit more background on age, sex, and breed for both?
Not sure what you are quoting with the "half dozen beheaded" ugh!

Simon is almost 7 (we think - as he was dropped off) mixed breed lab and ? male, and Jessie is 3 mths, mixed breed, border collie and ? female.

Diane
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Old March 21st, 2011, 08:12 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Not sure what you are quoting with the "half dozen beheaded" ugh!

Simon is almost 7 (we think - as he was dropped off) mixed breed lab and ? male, and Jessie is 3 mths, mixed breed, border collie and ? female.

Diane
Extension cords, believe it or not. None plugged in, though she did snag the computer cord but thankfully not far enough through it. Counting pieces, measuring the length of the leftovers to see if any was swallowed, which some was. Took years to be able to trust her at all after that.

Okay. Here are some thoughts to start you off.

The trouble with Jessie is going to be that for a border collie, the line between like's great and life sucks is very fine, and that's the line we're aiming for. She will grow out of the behaviour, to a certain extent.

If Simon is showing any active resistance toward her, showing teeth, growling, etc. the best thing might be to let it play out, and let them work it out themselves. If he fights back, gives her what she deserves, maybe pins her to the ground or grabs her muzzle, she will learn the right lesson. Your risk of her being actually injured by a lab are slim. However, if Simon may have pit in him, or if you have any other reason to believe that if a fight starts it could go beyond pushing, shoving, and dominance and reach the point of him causing serious injury, don't do it.

You also might, like many people, just be too nervous to do that, or Simon might be the kind of dog who is just lying there saying, Mom, please help...

Jessie needs to learn two very strong commands, come and go play, the actual words you choose to use are neither here nor there. During any play session, you should be able to call Jessie and have here leave the fun right in the middle of the best moment. Do NOT get in the habit of every time you call, the leash goes on or she has to come in the house or go in her kennel or the game is over. Sometimes that will happen, sometimes she will get a pet or hug or treat and get to go back to playing.

You can also establish separate resting areas for each dog. Jessie is never allowed in Simon's private zone, so when he learns how that works, he will go there when he wants to be left alone, and come to the neutral zone when he wants to interact with Jessie. Jessie's zone can be more of a time-out area. Put her there when she is relentlessly bugging him, and give her a favourite toy that is taken away at other times, so it is a special enjoyable spot, not so much a corner for naughty dogs. You would teach her something like "go to your mat". This is not a strict "stay" that means don't move a muscle until you're told otherwise, she will be allowed to do just about anything, as long as all four paws remain on the mat.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 09:44 PM
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Hi Diane. I am going to suggest you PM luckypenny or one of the other members who have tons of experience with training. You could even try tenderfoot. Sounds to me like Simon and Jessie are just being rambunctious. Simon isn't baring teeth, is he?
Just have to say something about that "pit" comment- as a new member SamIam you will not know that most of us here do not place labels on dogs because of breed so I will excuse you. Some of our members have pitties. They are much loved, gentle members of their families. We blame the owner - not the breed. Why even put something like that in the equation?
As for labs - I have one. There are moments when she has felt threatened because of an incident that happened to her when she was younger that she could very easily injure another dog.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 10:06 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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Just have to say something about that "pit" comment- as a new member SamIam you will not know that most of us here do not place labels on dogs because of breed so I will excuse you. Some of our members have pitties. They are much loved, gentle members of their families. We blame the owner - not the breed. Why even put something like that in the equation?
As for labs - I have one. There are moments when she has felt threatened because of an incident that happened to her when she was younger that she could very easily injure another dog.
My impression of pits is that although they are unlikely to fight or start a fight, once pushed to the point of fighting - which I can imagine this little puppy might be persistent enough to get a reaction - they are more likely to bite harder. And when you say "we blame the owner, not the breed" isn't that because they need to be managed properly, such as knowing to avoid conflict with other dogs? This is getting a bit off-topic, though. All we know for sure is the dog is part lab, part non-lab!

Yes, as I mentioned, although letting the dogs work it out on their own is often the best solution, a dog like your lab, because of her history, would be a dog to use more caution with in this type of situation.

Last edited by SamIam; March 21st, 2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old March 21st, 2011, 10:45 PM
SamIam SamIam is offline
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I stand by my advice 100%. Knowing the sex, age, and breed of these two dogs gives ma a lot of insight into what their motivation is and into what is likely to work for them. Without being able to watch this situation in person, I can still get a good picture of what is going on. Breed is not just about looks it is about behaviour. Labs ACT like labs, border collies ACT like border collies, but in the case that these breeds are mixed with breeds of similar looks and vastly different instincts, or in the case they may display characteristics not typical of the known half of their breed - such as due to traumatic events in their past, a different approach to managing a happy home may be necessary.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:10 AM
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Samiam, the amount of knowledge and experience you seem to possess just amazes me. And these last few posts remind me so much of Brad Pattison. Did you ever take any training with him ?
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 12:40 AM
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Vandike, you do not have PM turned on.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 01:13 AM
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Have you thought about tethering Jesse DMC?
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
However, if Simon may have pit in him, or if you have any other reason to believe that if a fight starts it could go beyond pushing, shoving, and dominance and reach the point of him causing serious injury, don't do it.
Any breed of dog can show dominance or aggression. In my opinion, it is unfair to pits, who have already endured unjust discrimination due to the narrow-mindedness of uneducated humans, to be put in such a bad light on a pet forum that has members who are so well informed on dog behaviour.

dmc to you. I hope you get the advice you need. That little Jessie of yours is such a cutie pie
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:19 AM
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Hi dmc. The good thing about all this is that your older dog has tolerance and is not bothered by the constant playing. That in itself is a great sign as you will have harmony as the pup matures. The fact that they play well, they will bond well as the pup reaches maturity. So that's all good.

For puppies during this period of excitement, it is very difficult to use recall as they are thrilled with the interaction. What I would suggest is to use a distraction when you want everything to simmer down. I use a teething bone to get the pup's attention. I then put it in the crate and let the baby have some down time. If you don't like using the crate for this, then bring the pup in a room with you along with favourite toys and/or teething bone and let her entertain herself.

I am currently fostering an 8 week old boxer X and I have 5 dogs of my own. My GSD and this pup seem to keep going...and it is I that is going nuts with the constant playing. but the GSD has not lost patience and seems to encourage this play. So I am going through EXACTLY what you are. I have found that this method works. It also gives everyone time to have their own space and also the opportunity for the puppy to bond with you alittle, if you take her into a room with you while you do chores, go on the computer, fold laundry..whatever..

It sounds like you have a great little family and everything is working out great.

All that you describe thus far is healthy interaction.

As for the cat litter box...well when you know how to keep the dogs out of it..please let me know.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:55 AM
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you've been given great advice by everyone, Samiam, have you ever been a prof trainer? *S* you gave all the advice that our trainer gives out. As for the litter box, when I had my cat and my dog enjoyed "treats" I ended up getting a covered litter box and keeping it up on a side table in a spare room...only thing that seemed to work.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 10:10 AM
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I went though this with Ginger and teaching her to take a break.always jumping on jag or grabbing at his back legs during play or just walking past. I started tell her enough and would set in and stop the play at the same time.did this till just saying enough was all i had to do.my 2 like to start their playing right in front of you or the tv when watching a good movie or show so the verbal command comes in handy.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Melinda Melinda is offline
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Brina (almost 6) will lay full out on top of a pup once she's had enough, our trainer comes to borrow her whenever she has a pup that she wants to teach lessons to about playing rough
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 03:00 PM
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Brina (almost 6) will lay full out on top of a pup once she's had enough, our trainer comes to borrow her whenever she has a pup that she wants to teach lessons to about playing rough
Aw come on, ya big tease ~ pics!
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SamIam View Post
You can also establish separate resting areas for each dog. Jessie is never allowed in Simon's private zone, so when he learns how that works, he will go there when he wants to be left alone, and come to the neutral zone when he wants to interact with Jessie.
I like the private area - in fact Simon kind of started that on his own by going to the couch when he was tired. We don't let them wrestle on the couch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Hi Diane. I am going to suggest you PM luckypenny or one of the other members who have tons of experience with training. You could even try tenderfoot. Sounds to me like Simon and Jessie are just being rambunctious. Simon isn't baring teeth, is he?
good idea about PM those training members. And no, Simon doesn't bare his teeth - we hope he won't.

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Have you thought about tethering Jesse DMC?
I have thought of it, afraid they will tangle up in it, would rather try a command of some sort.
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
That little Jessie of yours is such a cutie pie
aww - thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
It sounds like you have a great little family and everything is working out great.

All that you describe thus far is healthy interaction.

As for the cat litter box...well when you know how to keep the dogs out of it..please let me know.
Thanks for the advice and glad to know someone else is facing this. Will let you know what we do - about the cat box.

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Aw come on, ya big tease ~ pics!
LOL here's two other threads with pics, LOL
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....ghlight=jessie

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....685#post993685

Thanks all - keep on with more advice if you think of more

Diane
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Old March 22nd, 2011, 08:49 PM
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Melinda Melinda is offline
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Aw come on, ya big tease ~ pics!
if any of you have Ontario cable, and have seen commercials for Shannoncourt dog training , you'd have seen Brina, she was borrowed for two days for the filming because of how she kept herd on the puppies and how well she interacted with older dogs, it was Brina, 4 pitties (rescues belonging to the trainer) and 3 pups all together in one room and doing obedience training with one trainer all at the same time. this was about 3 or 4 yrs ago.

sorry, off topic.

Last edited by Melinda; March 22nd, 2011 at 08:50 PM. Reason: apologizing for being off topic
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