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Old September 22nd, 2004, 11:16 PM
Kai One Kai One is offline
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Even if Pit Bulls are as bad as they say

Fist of all I don't for a second believe that pit bulls are as bad as they are being made out to be by the media. However, I also know that convincing the vast majority of ignorant voters out there (which really is the problem) that pit bulls are as safe as any dog is not going to be easy. I think they should focus on how ludicrous the issue is EVEN IF one were to conceed that pit bulls are nothing more than "dangerous and vicious weapons on four legs." My point is that cars are nothing more than " vicious weapons with four wheels," guns are nothing more than "vicious weapons with bits that go click," and knives are nothing more than, "vicious weapons with pointy parts." However, I have never read anything about banning cars, guns, or knives as they play an integral role in our lives. How many robberies happen at "bullpoint," how many murders are committed by dogs (except for that one CSI episode where the lady got her dog to kill people so she could eat them...)? There are plenty of weapons in the world, just look at the crazy US customs agents (don't take that nailfile onboard you TERRORIST!!!), but we realize that it is not the weapons that are inherently dangerous, but the people who would utilize certain objects in a dangerous manner. IF we are to believe that pitbulls shoult be banned because they CAN be used as weapons, then we must remove cars, trucks, guns, nailfiles, bars of soap, socks filled with quarters, oranges, tether balls, baseballs, cricket balls, etc. from our world as well.


-Kev
  #2  
Old September 23rd, 2004, 07:39 AM
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Kai One,
THANK YOU for your understanding especially since you probably don't own a Pit Bull. They are truly wonderful loving dogs if they are with the right owner. Sure people will always be skeptical, but people always pass judgement on things they really don't know nothing about!

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 07:48 AM
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Coppers mom,there was yet another story today in the Toronto Star how two Pitties killed a Jack Russel.....
Apparently the owner of the dogs,cried seeing the dead JR,probably also because she knew her dogs were doomed.
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 07:58 AM
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I have asked the newspapers since they are so interested in reporting dog attacks, when they are going to start reporting them all?? Why only when a couple of breeds(pit bulls/rotties) attack and kill? Like when the GSD attacked and killed a JRT in the park i go too, why didn't that make the papers?? Or when a dog trainer i know had half her lip bitten off by a whippet?? Or when my cousin got dozens of stitches after a GSD attacked her?? I could go on and on
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 08:42 AM
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I certainly feel for the owners of the JR,my grand-doggie is a JR,it must have been a horrific experience,but it seem there is a"hot-Line" to the press about pit-attacks.
In my pet-supply store,a Whippet attacked one of the in-store cats and nearly killed it,the cat had 40 stiches..but is now doing ok.
A young man on my street has a Doberman and a Blue Pit-Bull he walks on one double leash,extremly obedient dogs.Then there is a little lady(100lbs if that)who walks,or I should say is being walked by a HUGE Husky.
Yesterday,the young man and his dogs encountered the lady and her Husky,his dogs totally ingnored the Husky,but the Husky was soo excited,the lady had to put the leash around a tree to hold him.She wears a big construction-glove on her leash-hand as not to lose her grip.
I've seen this Husky attack an old Rottie at one time.
The Husky is a hero,he saved the ladies life in a house-fire,but he is very dog-aggressive.
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 01:26 PM
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Chico 2,

I know, I saw the news story this morning. I wonder about a few things that the media didn't report: 1) How or why did the dogs get loose?
2) What are the owners like?
3) How well were these dogs raised?
I think all this boils down to is irresponsible ownership. The dogs obviously weren't being monitored as to what they were doing. I constantly check on my dog. If I don't here him or see him I look for him. He is with me all the time anyway (even at work!) I take him everywhere and always make sure he is on a leash or tied up but not left alone.

Also another factor is that when there is more than one dog, they are in a pack. Most stories of attacks there are two pitbulls involved. When you have a third dog there's more of a chance of trouble because all dogs have to determine their pack order. There are many possibilities of why this attack happened. Like I said, irresponsible ownership.

My heart goes out to the owner of the JRT. I certainly don't blame anyone for being afraid of Pits, thanks to all of the irresponsible people that own them. And its stories like this that give them a bad name.

I often wonder whether or not my dog will "turn." If he ever does, I can only hope he would turn on me and no one else. This is how much I love my dog.
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 06:07 PM
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I just wish these irresponsible owners would smarten up, already. If they truly love their dog, they should be taking every precaution to avoid a problem.
Espescially now, with all the ban nonsense.
When you own a pit bull, everything your dog does is under constant scrutiny.
This was true before the ban-talk, and it is worse now. Is it fair or deserved? No.
But it is the price we have to pay, for the joy that these wonderful dogs bring us.

I read that the dogs that attacked today, pushed through their screen door. They never should have been left alone to look out the door.
To me, if I'm strong enough to bust a door open, then so is my staffy.
My dog isn't the least bit aggressive, but why chance it?

I know we can't be prevent every incident, but with pitts, there are no second chances. You mess up, your dog dies. To me, that is motivation enough.
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 06:17 PM
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I agree with you guys it is not the dogs it is all about the owners and I think as responsible dog owners that we need to report every bite to the paper especially when no pit bull is involved. Then we need to find a sympathetic reporter like the woman that wrote the pro pit bull story and tell of all the other dog bites that nobody else will report. I am not a pit bull owner but I think that everybody must defend the breed because right now it is pitt bulls next it will be another breed and I think that we would all want to be supported if it were our dogs that were taking the heat.
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Old September 23rd, 2004, 09:31 PM
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I don't have any dogs anymore,I used to a long time ago,but I would worry about ANY dog running up to me.
Before joining this Forum,I had all kinds of preconceptions about Pit-Bulls,mostly from the media.
But I have since learned different,from people here owning wonderful Pits and reading the many Pit-sites.
If I owned a Pit-Bull,I would be heartbroken and worried about all the nasty-ness going on and I hope a solution can be found other than a ban,anything that is banned will go under-ground and the dogs will be the ones suffering.
But it looks like MR BRYANT has already made up his mind
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Old September 24th, 2004, 01:10 AM
Spurby Spurby is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copper'sMom

I often wonder whether or not my dog will "turn." If he ever does, I can only hope he would turn on me and no one else. This is how much I love my dog.
How old is your dog? Do you own a pit bull? Dogs don't just "turn" on their owners(BIG myth), there are always warning signs to be seen. If you do see any type of aggression towards humans in a pit bull, then you would have to seek professional help asap, as this is not a acceptable or normal trait in this breed.
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Old September 24th, 2004, 04:43 AM
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That is something I have wondered about Why would a pit-Bull"turn"against their owner or anyone???
I have read Lucky talking about it and Lucky has a beautiful pittie"Chloe"...
Is it in the make-up of a Pit???
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Old September 24th, 2004, 09:40 AM
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Spurby,

I do own a pit bull (or maybe a look a like). He is 3 and a half years old. He was neutered at six months and acts like he is still 6 months old. He has never showed any aggression towards humans except if I try to cut his nails. He hates that, but the vet has no problems doing it! Most dogs hate having their nails cut so I'm not worried about it. I used to cut his nails when he was a pup, but as he got bigger he didn't like it as much. The vet accidently cut his quick one time and Copper never even flinched!

Anyway I also think that there are warning signs that a dog shows if there is any human aggression. Some people say they can "turn" - whether it happens or not I don't know and I'm not worried about it. If it happens, well I guess I'll be in for a great shock. I have heard that the reason they "turn" suddenly is because 1) they have a chemical imbalance(schizophrenic) or 2) their brains grow to big and starts crushing against their skull and they go haywire. Whether these are true or not, I don't have a clue. I'll ask my vet next week and see what she says.

If my boy starts to show any aggression then I will start to worry and will seek professional help. I don't see any need to worry as he is well raised and under supervision all the time. He was well socialized as a pup and still is as he goes with me just about everywhere. He's quite content to sit in his jeep and watch people come and go in parking lots. And no I don't leave him in a vehicle on hot days - he stays home then!!

I've had many positive comments on how well behaved he is. Some have asked me if he was trained by a professional! That has been the greatest compliment I could ever receive.

I LOVE MY BOY!!!
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Old September 24th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Spurby Spurby is offline
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You sound like a very loving owner! Your dog is very lucky You do not need to worry about there brains growing to large and crushing the skull, that is a very big MYTH, as far as chemical imbalances of some kind?, that is very rare, and i doubt you would have to worry about that. He is at the age where his true temperament is showing(mature) so if he is friendly and loving to all people, he won't change, or "turn on you"

And yes, many dogs hate getting their nails done!!
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Old September 24th, 2004, 10:32 AM
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My boy brings me more joy than anything else in the world. When I think of him, he brings a smile to my lips. My friends and family tell me I shouldn't put my dog before everything else in my life, but I can't help it - I love him so much. I hate leaving him for an evening out with friends!! Luckily, I have an understanding fiance that knows how much Copper means to me. The day he dies will be the worst day of my life. I can't even think about it or I'll cry...

If I'm going to be away for more than 4 or 5 hours Copper goes to his grandma's(my mom) to visit!! My mom, her husband and my 90 year old grandma LOVE Copper and he is welcome there any time.

Copper gets birthday parties, christmas presents and of course is dressed up for halloween! He's spoiled rotten but he does know who his boss is! He rarely needs to be corrected of wrong doing except when it comes to chewing his blankey!!

I should train him to be a seeing eye dog or something just so he can come into stores and restaurants with me! Maybe I'll work on that!

I can't wait to put pics up of him. I have tons!! I have photo albums of him all in order from the first day I got him until present. Good pics, bad pics they are all in there!

I could go on and on but I won't!
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Old September 24th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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Talking Simple way to find out if PB/Staffys are Bad!

Start as a volunteer walker @ your local shelter. (I assume you can hold a strong dog)
Talk to the shelter staff about the dog that you are going to walk, before you go out. Th ey can tell you what to expect. And usually it's nothing.
(If the dog you are walking was dog aggressive, it would not be allowed out of the shelter with a volunteer.)
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Old September 25th, 2004, 04:58 AM
skunkney skunkney is offline
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I was walking down the street one day and saw a dog attacking a spaniel that was walking with its owner who also had a child in her arms. The woman was doing everything she could to stop the other dog as it was relentless with its attack on her defenceless dog, but it just kept coming. I ran across the street to help, and after chasing the attacker around a couple of bushes, finally grabbed it as it was heading back for another attack. It was a pitbull puppy, probably no more than 4 or 5 months old. The collar had a tag with it's name and the owners number. and I called them to come and pick it up. The owner took me back to his place and gave me 20 bucks for my efforts. I guess I'll never really know, but he seemed genuinely concerned about his pup, as it had escaped out the front door earlier, and he didn't seem like the type who would abuse his dog or raise it to be vicious.

I am a lover of all dogs and animals in general, but I am always anxious whenever I am in the presence of a pit bull, especially if I have a dog with me. Other dogs can be vicious, and can inflict serious harm, but none that rival the destructive power of a pit bull. I truly feel for pit bulls that are mistreated, abused, raised to be vicious, or put down, and I know that the majority of these outcomes are due to the dogs having owners that want nothing more than a dog that symbolises their own need to exude toughness. It is these irresponsible people that should be held accountable, not the dogs. However, these dogs, when on the attack, inflict serious and sometimes deadly injuries, especially if another dog is the target. Much of the time, these very same dogs have been raised well and the owners are quite shocked to hear that their dog has just seriously injured or killed someone.

Cars, trucks, guns, nailfiles, bars of soap, socks filled with quarters, oranges, tether balls, baseballs, cricket balls, etc. dont have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle that are bred for the sole purpose of killing and act on their own using instinct.

There are so many other breeds of dog to choose from. Why would you want to own a pit bull, other than merely to be tough.

Last edited by skunkney; September 25th, 2004 at 05:02 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old September 25th, 2004, 01:18 PM
Loki Loki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skunkney
... etc. dont have fangs, lockjaws, and bodies of solid muscle that are bred for the sole purpose of killing and act on their own using instinct.

There are so many other breeds of dog to choose from. Why would you want to own a pit bull, other than merely to be tough.
That doesn't describe any pit bulls that I've ever seen.
To answer your question as to why someone would choose this breed:

I adopted mine from the humane society to save a life. Others, who are capable of actually researching the breed( and not just blindly regurgitating what the media reports) , find that the dog's gentle and loving nature is ideal for them as a pet. I know, why let the truth get in the way of a good ole witch-hunt.
I actually believed all the hype about pit bulls years ago, then I learned to think for myself.
By the way, talk to someone at an emergency vet clinic and ask them the kind of damage other breeds of dog are capable of.
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Old September 25th, 2004, 08:07 PM
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I get the same stuff over 1 my dogs (not a Pit bull)

Every time a dog bite, or attack happens, the breed in question gets hauled over the coals. If they succeed in banning Pits & Staffys, next time it might be Rottis, or Neopolitan Mastiffs, or Malamutes, or Akitas. Or Jack Russells's? LOL!!

To get back to your question, there are times when i wonder why. Not why I have an Akita (& a Lab) but why I bother to work so hard on socializing, Obedience training, neutering/spaying, & schooling my dogs as the years go by. If my dogs are only as good as this week's headlines, then why did i bother to help them become friendly, & useful parts of the community? Why did i spend the money, or take the time?

If over 8 years worth of work comes to nought after 1 bad newspaper story, should we all not just become irresponsible owners? And save ourselves a ton of money & time?
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Old September 26th, 2004, 12:07 AM
skunkney skunkney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akeeter
If over 8 years worth of work comes to nought after 1 bad newspaper story, should we all not just become irresponsible owners? And save ourselves a ton of money & time?
No, of course not.

This thing is, pit bulls and rotty's are favorites among people who like to be tough. They think they are tough, and they want a tough dog. This is not a very good reason to own a dog. So not only are these individuals stereotyped by the media and society for living on the fringe and exhibiting almost criminal characteristics, but their dogs are stereotyped as well - especially when they go out of control.

Anyway, the reason people are so terrified of pits is that when they DO attack, whether they are from a good home or not, they are VERY difficult to stop. They will keep coming until either it's victim is dead or it is. There aren't many other dogs that will take a bat to the head and keep on fighting.
As far as the ban goes, if I understand correctly, they would also have to ban every crossbreed of the pit bull, and thats alot of breeds. So don't expect this to happen anytime soon. It's not just as simple as banning the one breed.
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Old September 26th, 2004, 02:25 AM
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Question The same is said of Akita owners, too.

(Although we didn't know that when we bought him) It doesn't say that in 'selecting a puppy books', or in books about Akitas. I guess it's a generalization made from Without. Ie: people who are outside of that breed?
Probably the same for many breeds of dog.

I went with my gut instincts, & decided that the books said 'some' Akitas are dog aggressive. They didn't say, 'All Akitas are dog aggressive'. I think all Akitas & (probably) Pit Bulls are Dominant dogs. But I think there is a big difference between being dominant, & dog aggressive. A dominant dog is confident & usually not the aggressor unless pushed or threatened. An aggressive dog is the aggressor, even when no threat is made.

There 'may'(?) be a higher %age of dog aggro Pit Bulls because of their more recent history as fighting dogs, but I still don't get the human aggression.
Something very strange has happened here. Like poor breeding. Either the dog on human aggro. happened by accident, or maybe on purpose.
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Old September 26th, 2004, 09:33 AM
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The 'tough-guy' thing is a problem with alot of the larger breeds. I'd be willing to bet that if 'Gangsta rappers etc, started using Shihtzus in their videos, we'd be facing a shihtzu crisis right now.
Image is not a reason to own a dog.
I'd like to think that these clowns aren't getting their dogs from shelters and responsible breeders. Personally, I'd like to see a mandatory neuter law across the board. Too many dogs are in shelters. Regulate the pro-breeders and stop
the amateurs and criminals.
  #22  
Old September 28th, 2004, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
blindly regurgitating what the media reports
I think that statement right there holds the Root of all this 'ban' discussion.
Not only are we (the targeted viewing audience) subject to the spoon fed fear of the media but so are our politicians, whose lackeys encourage to act 'boldly' to snag another sect of voters. (The 'overprotective-quick to blame-media reliant-need to be affraid of everything' group.)

Akeeter-Something very strange has happened here. Like poor breeding.
And hey guess what?! It DIDN'T start with the poor breeding of a dog! It started with the poor rearing of a human.

Banning a breed is so not the answer anyone is looking for, but will anyone care or bother to notice that the road these polititians and media are leading the public down does not have a place for a U-turn when they finally decide "oh wait thats not the result we wanted". With genetics and cloning and all the other scary "advancements" out there, do we really want to start playing God and decide what living being is worthy of life????!!!!!

I mean where does it go after we clean up the animal species so that only the "desirable" remain? What if they turn on the undesirables in the human poplulation?
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Old September 28th, 2004, 12:42 PM
Akeeter Akeeter is offline
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Question Totally agree that poor breeding starts with a human.

And BSL won't change that, except for the breeds specified under the BSL.

But I do a slow burn when I see people (idiots) marketting their dogs on aggression, size, & little else to other idiots who are looking for aggression. It's simply a fast track to BSL for that breed.

We can't shut down a kennel, (except by BSL -& who wants that?) if food water, & adequate shelter are provided to the dogs in it. It doesn't matter what mentality is behind the breeding. If they meet basic humane laws, they are legal.

Nothing will ever change things except the mentality of the buyers. If they stop buying dogs for all the wrong reasons, those producers will have no market.

I think one area in the U.S. started a Lemon Law for puppies & dogs. Maybe that isn't such a bad idea along with licensing for dog buyers & owners. A lot of bites could be prevented if owners knew more about the breed thay plan to purchase before they do it.

(But would you not think that a caring breeder should suggest not to buy this or that breed, if the puppy buyer has a house full of pre-schoolers, or has never owned a dog before?)
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Old September 28th, 2004, 01:11 PM
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It's not only pit bulls who are aren't raised properly, it's all types of breeds. Then these animals go to a shelter and no one wants them because they are mean. People should have to get a license to own ANY dog or animal for that matter. Maybe then we could cut back on the amount of neglect and abuse of animals altogether. Yes there will still be people getting dogs without getting a license, just as there are people driving without a license. The world will never be perfect. Even if they ban pit bulls, people will probably still get them if they can find them. Will veterinarians accept new pit bull clients after this ban? After all, no one is supposed to own one right?
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Old September 28th, 2004, 01:26 PM
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No perfect world in site!

I was refering partly to Pits,& my own breed too.

I also saw one of those glossy puppy marketing tools (magazine) that was pushing Eastern European flock guarding dogs on the basis on aggro,- human aggro suggested in the ads. Talk about a fish out of water! 160-200 lb+, long coated dog, bred to protect sheep & farm property being located in downtown anywhere. This Is Not Good! These dogs have never historically even lived in a house!
  #26  
Old October 1st, 2004, 08:01 PM
BANTHEPITBULL BANTHEPITBULL is offline
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Angry Ban The Pitbull, Now

your pitbull might be the nicest dog in the world...but i'm mad at the breed b'coz:

- i'm sick and tired of having to pick my dog up when some off-leash adult pitbull comes running around

- i'm sick and tired of having to carry a hammer to defend myself and my dog when i get in a deathmatch with a pitbull

- i'm sick and tired of the fact that my young cousin got his jacket's hood grabbed by a pitbull and for that he is terrified of all dogs now

- i'm sick and tired of having had to read about cases in the newspapers which involved pitbulls mauling and almost killing humans and small pets

- i'm sick and tired of being terrified by pitbulls. ENOUGH

get some sense now and realise that pitbulls aren't suuposed to be kept in densely populated areas. if you have a 100 acre ranch..and want to keep your pitbulls...sure go ahead....but YOUR RIGHTS END WHERE MINE BEGIN..

the WAR IS ON

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Old October 1st, 2004, 08:05 PM
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BANTHEPITBULL, if you want to join a discussion, please READ all of the posts in the thread and respond to what is being written about in the thread. Writing one post about your feelings about pit bulls and then copying and pasting it to every thread at all related to pit bulls is obnoxious, and unhelpful. If you want to get into healthy debate here, go ahead, but no one will listen to you if you don't listen to them, and YOU'RE NOT LISTENING! No one here wants to promote pit bulls, even those who have a pit bull of their own that they love. These people aren't breeding pit bulls or even buying pit bulls from breeders -- they have all rescued pit bulls, and they deserve their opinions to be listened to. So at least READ THEIR POSTS and then respond to what is being written, if you have something to add. I'm not saying you have to agree.
  #28  
Old October 2nd, 2004, 11:18 AM
montys_pet montys_pet is offline
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I know in Winnipeg where I live there is a total ban on Pit Bulls and I agreed with it for a long time after reading all the newspaper articles on Pit bull attacks. However I have since met a Pit Bull and his owner and the dog was the most kind hearted dog I have ever been around. So I do NOT agree with a ban any longer. I apoligize for my years spent agreeing with the ban as now I see it's NOT the dogs fault it IS the owners fault and why can't we just ban the owner? Everyone jumps on the dog right away well its NOT the dogs fault train it properly and it won't be aggresive.
  #29  
Old October 2nd, 2004, 11:29 AM
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Who do we blame for training BANTHEPITBULL? LOL
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Old October 2nd, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BANTHEPITBULL
- i'm sick and tired of having to carry a hammer to defend myself and my dog when i get in a deathmatch with a pitbull
LMAO!! you have GOT be kidding me (and i hope you are, because you would have to be a pretty parranoid person not just about pit bulls, but about EVERYTHING) to carry around a hammer. Seiously, i hope you continue with your posts, because they make me laugh(at your stupidity), thankyou, for making my day!!!
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