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  #31  
Old January 13th, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Well, almost 1 month since my first email to Champion Pet Foods and 9 days since my second email. I haven't received a reply yet .
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  #32  
Old February 8th, 2011, 01:14 PM
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First, the calculations in my first post here are completely wrong! I don't know how I came to those figures but the protein content in the raw I feed is higher in comparison to the Orijen I was feeding.

I did finally get a response from Orijen a few days ago so I'm able to better compare the vitamins, minerals, and protein levels. The protein and amino acids provided by raw can be much higher (sometimes double and even triple with raw turkey providing the largest differences). I still haven't figured out exactly why Penny does better on raw (especially turkey and other poultry) than she does on Orijen . I'm hoping to consult with a canine nutritionist in the upcoming week so, maybe she'll be able to provide some more insight .
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  #33  
Old February 8th, 2011, 02:38 PM
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Glad you finally got a reply from Orijen.

I would think that the reason Penny does better on raw chicken versus the chicken in kibble is due to the processing as cooking changes the structure of the protein.
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  #34  
Old February 8th, 2011, 03:21 PM
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I agree, the processing must do something. One thing rarely considered I've found is what the processing equipment used is made of. A lot of info out there about not using non stick and aluminum pots and pans for humans, but I never see anything about what human or animal processed food equipment is made of. Just another thing to worry about with processed foods.

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  #35  
Old February 24th, 2011, 11:19 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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Quote:
The point on too much protein has me a little confused
A lot of people don't understand that the "too much protein", is derived from cheaper foods made out of poor quality or inappropriate proteins, such as soy. Yes, too much of that makes your dog sick!

On the other hand too much real meat, simply makes your dog overweight. You cannot compare raw meat to kibble on any day of the week. It's like comparing apples and oranges. One is a natural food with natural nutritional content, the other a synthesized food with processed protein and supplement with synthetique minerals and vitamins ( in most cases).

One is fully digestible, one isn't.

The two are not the same and cannot really be compared this way.
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  #36  
Old February 24th, 2011, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MerlinsHope View Post
You cannot compare raw meat to kibble on any day of the week.
I was hoping that in comparing the nutritional analysis, specifically Orijen to various meat, it would help explain why Penny would become more reactive (behaviorally speaking) on the Orijen. We've since discovered similar changes in behavior when she eats raw beef.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
I was hoping that in comparing the nutritional analysis, specifically Orijen to various meat, it would help explain why Penny would become more reactive (behaviorally speaking) on the Orijen. We've since discovered similar changes in behavior when she eats raw beef.
Does Penny seem more aggresive when she eats beef than she does on chicken?
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  #38  
Old February 24th, 2011, 07:08 PM
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Yes Rainbow.

Not sure if this is relative but, we did finally get her second round of tests results back which suggest cholestasis.
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  #39  
Old February 24th, 2011, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
Yes Rainbow.

Not sure if this is relative but, we did finally get her second round of tests results back which suggest cholestasis.
I'm not familiar with that .....does that have something to do with her liver?
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  #40  
Old February 24th, 2011, 07:36 PM
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Yes, it does. It's a rather vague term to me though . All I know is "liver cell-specific injury" and we don't know the cause. We've changed up her diet somewhat and have added SAMe and milk thistle supplements. We re-test in 4-6 to see if there are any changes. If it's worse, then we have other tests run.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
I was hoping that in comparing the nutritional analysis, specifically Orijen to various meat, it would help explain why Penny would become more reactive (behaviorally speaking) on the Orijen. We've since discovered similar changes in behavior when she eats raw beef.
Protein doesn't make a dog aggressive - but a component like sugar would. It's very possible in your beef flavoued Orijen that there is more sugar in that particular food, and that would make a dog more aggressive.
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  #42  
Old February 25th, 2011, 07:50 AM
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I agree that protein doesn't make a dog aggressive. However, Penny already has aggressive tendencies regardless of the food fed and, feeding a high protein grain-free diet seems to make her worse. We've noticed a correlation between her level of reactivity to raw beef as well. It's happened too many times for it to just be a coincidence in her case . Maybe she's intolerant to beef and it makes her feel unwell? I have no idea but one thing we're certain about is we can't feed it to her and we can't feed her a high protein kibble either. I'm just trying to figure out exactly what is it about certain foods, including certain raw meat, that makes her more reactive.
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  #43  
Old February 26th, 2011, 03:33 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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I/m telling you that the problem you are having is from sugar - not from the type of protein. there is probably more sugar in the beef flavoured food

You might consider testing this dog for diabetes. Diabetes would account easily for mood swings as well and as we know it's very influenced by sugar.
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  #44  
Old February 26th, 2011, 01:16 PM
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I don't know why you're insisting I feed her a beef flavored food . I'm talking about fresh raw beef...a meal of muscle meat with veal liver, heart, kidney, and green tripe.

Her blood has been tested 3x over the last 9 months, no diabetes. Only last test results show something going on with her liver.
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  #45  
Old February 26th, 2011, 01:33 PM
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A dog's liver will take protein and convert it into glycogen. If for some reason, her liver has some "issue" with beef protein, by not converting or "over converting" (if that is even possible ), then it could affect her blood sugar and moods.
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  #46  
Old February 27th, 2011, 04:53 AM
MerlinsHope MerlinsHope is offline
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Quote:
I'm talking about fresh raw beef.
Sorry. I guess it was not clear to me, but even though, meats have varying glycemic indexes and can influence behaviour.

Sorry to hear about the liver. Does your beef tend to be fattier than other other meats you serve by any chance?
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  #47  
Old February 27th, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
A dog's liver will take protein and convert it into glycogen. If for some reason, her liver has some "issue" with beef protein, by not converting or "over converting" (if that is even possible ), then it could affect her blood sugar and moods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinsHope View Post
...meats have varying glycemic indexes and can influence behaviour.
That's interesting. I'm going to research the indexes of the various meat we feed. Thank you both for that idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MerlinsHope View Post
Does your beef tend to be fattier than other other meats you serve by any chance?
No, actually I would say it's leaner than the other meats. Perhaps 5-10% maximum fat content (I usually feed inside or bottom round, fat trimmed).

I just want to re-iterate, I don't believe at all that the food we feed is causing Penny's reactivity (this has always been an issue with her from day 1) but I do have a strong suspicion that certain foods increase the intensity of it.

Thank you for trying to help me figure this out. Any and all insight is always appreciated.
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