Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Cat health - Ask members * If your pet is vomiting-bleeding-diarrhea etc. Vet time!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 28th, 2010, 08:34 PM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
Feline Bladder Tumor

Has anybody had experience with a bladder tumor. We got a sample of the tumor to test -- but the lab said the test failed. A tumor in the bladder isn't usually benign, so we can say, it's cancer.

To say I am disillusioned and frustrated with veterinary science, given my experiences with misdiagnoses, and the fact that I can't get a clear answer from vets, I am reaching out to this forum to see if anyone has had or has a cat with bladder tumor.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old August 29th, 2010, 07:30 AM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
I had a cat had been used as a stud cat for 2 years and then I had him neutered and kept him as a pet. Of course that was back in the days when dry food was not thought to be harmful even tho I was feeding them a top of the line brand. This cat had 3 UTIs over several years that were successfully cleared by medication. Then when cat was 15 y.o. he had a urinary blockage, but this time medication didn't help, and it was determined he had a bladder tumor. At that time the vet deemed it was likely malignant and inoperable (this was in the early '90s), and our boy was euthanized. Had it happened today maybe they would have operated or suggested some sort of cancer treatment?
Did you get a second opinion on your cat?
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous

Last edited by catlover2; August 30th, 2010 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Correction of date
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old August 29th, 2010, 08:17 AM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
Thanks for your feedback.

Yes, surgery or chemo, these days...

I don't have clear info from vets on the surgery. Even if we knew without going in there if it was completely removable, it doesn't mean it will be a success. It seems like a huge gamble, and a whole lot of stress, confusion and pain on the cat. Would it mean an additional week, month or 1-2 years of life? Who could tell? I am just trying to figure out what's best for her.

Chemo just sounds plain cruel at this stage of my feline's life. She is not going to "get" what's being done to her and she has to be sedated each time a vet even walk into the same room. That would weaken her already compromised geriatric health.

I don't have the magic answer and don't expect anyone else does. I am thinking a gentle, holistic, eastern-healing modality may be in order as she moves towards the inevitable fate.

PS - 2nd opinion, 3rd opinion, yes --Thank you. Any specialist or vet with the equipment to conduct surgery, say surgery. Holistic vets say go gently into the night and tumor may be managable. Generalists that don't do this surgery, say, "I can't say, it's not my field of expertise,"it's up to you."
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates

Last edited by MiniTiga; August 29th, 2010 at 08:23 AM. Reason: PS
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old August 29th, 2010, 10:48 AM
catlover2's Avatar
catlover2 catlover2 is offline
Catlover2
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: GTA (Greater Toronto Area)
Posts: 1,031
I've haven't had a cat treated for cancer so can't comment on what kind of success would be achieved, but if you search on this forum under "cancer" or "chemo treatments" or "radiation". I know there were some threads not too long ago where this was tried. Can't remember the cat, but I think it went through a lot up and down and not feeling well for many many months with some remissions, but I think it eventually succumbed to the cancer. Only you know your cat best, and by the sound of it she would be highly stressed by all the vet visits that would be entailed. It will be a hard decision but I know you'll have the cat's best interest at heart. I wish you well. So sorry to hear.
__________________
"We humans are indeed fortunate if we happen to be chosen to be owned by a cat." -- Anonymous
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old August 29th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Dr Lee's Avatar
Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
Senior Contributor - Expert
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
Has anybody had experience with a bladder tumor. We got a sample of the tumor to test -- but the lab said the test failed. A tumor in the bladder isn't usually benign, so we can say, it's cancer.

To say I am disillusioned and frustrated with veterinary science, given my experiences with misdiagnoses, and the fact that I can't get a clear answer from vets, I am reaching out to this forum to see if anyone has had or has a cat with bladder tumor.
I am sorry that you are disillusion with veterinary science. Certainly medicine can be frustrating and veterinary medicine has its own flavor of problems when compared to human medicine.

1) How do we know it is a bladder tumor? If we see it on an ultrasound, it is not unusual for severe inflammation and/or blood clot to look identical to a tumor. So either empirical treatment with recheck or further diagnostics would be recommended. If they saw it on surgery, then it is very unusual for the lab test to not identify a proper biopsy bladder sample but you may want to try again.

2) If it is a bladder tumor, then unfortunately you are correct, most are malignant. Occasionally in cats you can have a benign mass such as a leiomyoma but malignant bladder tumors are more common and have a poor prognosis. In dogs, it is usually TCC (Transitional Cell Carcinoma). In cat, while we do see TCC, SCC (squamous cell carcinoma) is more prevalent. In dogs, we usually recommend piroxicam but it is not typically recommended in cats. Typically we will use meloxicam however this medication is not curative but palliative. Surgery can be pursued but does not in any way guarantee an elongation of survival unfortunately.

Again, we need to establish that it is a malignancy as sometimes, what look like masses can be focal inflammation of the tissue.

I hope that this helps.
__________________
Christopher A. Lee, D.V.M., C.V.L.S.
Promoting surgical options and pet comfort through the use of lasers.
www.acerlux.com

Last edited by Dr Lee; August 30th, 2010 at 11:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old August 30th, 2010, 02:55 AM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,277
I'm sorry to hear this diagnosis

A homeopath vet can certainly give you options for pain management, increase in comfort levels etc. There are also various remedies that have been used for cancer treatment & a trained homeopath vet can assess which is best for your girl
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old August 30th, 2010, 02:40 PM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
Thanks to both of you for your outreach and concern.

She has consistent blood in her urine and all the other symptoms of serious UTI. A vet took cell samples with an aspirate and it came back not diagnostic. He said it's "big" and looks like a cauliflower, but can't remember what he noted as its literal size -- and his office does not see notes of it anywhere....

And this is the new vet. Growler has already heard about the old vet.

The hospital can't use his information and just want me to repeat the same tests. I am through putting her through lab rat abuse and going even further into debt.

Surgery is no option because it has the potential of causing more harm than good. Let's not delve into the expense of the gamble. It's a great way to exploit distressed pet owners by saying surgery is a valid option for bladder cancer. Let the animal go in peace. No BODY is eternal.

Just please lend a prayer for minimal pain and suffering through her transition. I pray that she can pass gently in her peace when her time comes.

I pray for a new generation of vets that are devoted to healing, not a lifestyle of luxury.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old August 30th, 2010, 03:01 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 10,191
My prayers are with you.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 30th, 2010, 03:45 PM
mikischo's Avatar
mikischo mikischo is offline
Mickey, my angel
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posts: 1,185
I am wondering what tests were done to determine that this was a tumor. Maybe I am stabbing in the dark but Dr. Lee did say that severe inflammation or a blood clot can look identical to a tumor.

Back in the 80's I received a misdiagnosis from a vet who indicated that he could feel a large mass in my 11 year old cat's bladder and he was quite certain he had bladder cancer. My cat's symptoms consisted of peeing in places other than his litter box and there was quite a bit of blood in his urine. I could tell you the whole story here, but to make a long story short it turned out that it was a UTI. After a course of antibiotics all symptoms disappeared and he was perfectly fine and ended up living another 6 years until he passed away from other causes at the age of 17.

I am not saying that this is the case with your kitty, although it would be wonderful if it was. That is why I'm am wondering what tests have been done for the vets to arrive at their diagnosis of a tumor. I am also wondering why the vet can't use the information from the tests done by the previous vet and has to run them again.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The animals share with us the privilege of having a soul." -Pythagoras
"The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different." -Hippocrates
"Let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." -Jack Layton
"Be the change you want to see in the world" -Gandhi

Kitties: Punky (13), Tweeky (6), and Sassy (7)

SweetMickey 1991 to May 24, 2009
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old August 30th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Dr Lee's Avatar
Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
Senior Contributor - Expert
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 1,058
Angry

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
I pray for a new generation of vets that are devoted to healing, not a lifestyle of luxury.
The volunteer time that I spend here and other websites, and the time my friends spend doing volunteer surgery must seem like it brings us a lifestyle of luxury. I know my small one bedroom apartment and no vacation for almost five years must seem like true luxury but it doesn't appear to compare to careers with similar education time: lawyers, bankers and "real doctors". They seem to have nice cars, nice houses, savings accounts with actually something in it and amazing vacations. Which vets have this lifestyle of luxury? I wonder what this new generation of vets will look like?

It is sentiments like this that make many of us vets decide to give up the "lifestyle of luxury" and settle for a career that actually gets us enough money to do more than break even and without false accusations of "exploiting distressed pet owners" And people wonder why there are articles on compassion fatigue in veterinarians!
__________________
Christopher A. Lee, D.V.M., C.V.L.S.
Promoting surgical options and pet comfort through the use of lasers.
www.acerlux.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old August 30th, 2010, 04:50 PM
14+kitties's Avatar
14+kitties 14+kitties is offline
150% PRO S/N
Starcastle Champion, V:force Champion, UFO Shoot Out Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, Mission To Mars Champion, Disc Dash Champion, Crazy Closet Champion, Railway Line Champion, Penguin Pass Champion
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MYOB
Posts: 15,408
While I feel your frustration with your ordeal you can not generalize vets just as you can't generalize doctors. I know some very good doctors who do whatever they can to help the suffering of others. I'm sure everyones heard of Doctors Without Borders. I know and have met some very very good vets as well. Dr Lee is one of them. I for one appreciate the help he gives to all the members here during their times of questioning and heartbreak.

Have you tried getting a second opinion?
__________________
Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 30th, 2010, 06:21 PM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
Dr. Lee -

As I said, thank you for your outreach. I said nothing negative. It is not a false accusation and it is based on my experiences -- plural.

I am not here to prove my experiences with vets to anyone. I have a cat with bladder cancer and the suggested, unaffordable options are not options for me. I was hoping someone here had real experience to share on how to cope with this. I don't have the energy for this. I am drained -- emotionally and financially -- listening to one misdirection after another from vets. This is not about YOU. At least you have a job. I haven't taken a vacation in six years, and I find pleasure in volunteering and helping stray animals and people whenever I can. No one needs to thank me for that. It's all about what's in your nature.

God bless everyone.

My fault for posting. Answers must come from within now.

As far the question regarding possible UTI misdiagnosis. I had a urine culture done last week and no bacteria grew, so the vet said there is no infection. She was on antibiotics before then, anyway. The Baytril gave her alarming side effects so I stopped it before the urine culture results came in.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old August 30th, 2010, 06:33 PM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
14+kitties - neglected to add: the vet saw it with ultrasound.

Good night.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old August 30th, 2010, 11:18 PM
Dr Lee's Avatar
Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
Senior Contributor - Expert
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area California
Posts: 1,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
neglected to add: the vet saw it with ultrasound.
In light of a negative culture then I would be concerned that that is a real finding and would be concerned regarding a malignancy. That is not an absolute but I would not want to raise your hopes. Some bacterias do not culture well and some masses are benign but both of these are exceptions and not the rule.

I agree with you on Baytril. You must be very, very careful with the drug in cats. At the recommended dose, it can be safe but at slightly higher doses - you can risk very serious side effects. If the culture is negative, then I would not recommend the use of Bayrtil.

I also agree with you. If there is a malignant bladder tumor, surgery is unlikely to change the course of events. Palliative treatment such as Metacam is typically recommended. Metacam is not without risks and may not be recommended for all cats. However when we are looking at promoting quality to the remaining time, then sometimes metacam should be considered.

I did not wish to in any way add to your difficult time. I realize this must be a very difficult time for you both. I do wish you and your cat the best.
__________________
Christopher A. Lee, D.V.M., C.V.L.S.
Promoting surgical options and pet comfort through the use of lasers.
www.acerlux.com
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 8th, 2010, 05:18 PM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
Thank you. Anything is possible.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 8th, 2010, 08:35 PM
hazelrunpack's Avatar
hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
The Pack's Head Servant
Chopper Challenge Champion, Mini KickUps Champion, Bugz Champion, Snakeman Steve Champion, Shape Game Champion, Mumu Champion, Mouse Race Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Just east of the Hazelnut Patch, Wisconsin
Posts: 49,911
How is she doing, MiniTiga?
__________________
"We are--each of us--dying; it's how we live in the meantime that makes the difference."

"It's not what you gather, but what you scatter that tells what kind of life you have lived!"

"Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 9th, 2010, 06:38 AM
MiniTiga's Avatar
MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 44
All things considered, I would say she is doing exceptionally well. She's hanging in there. The "things to consider," of course, are not palatable. To say there is blood in the urine is not accurate. It's more like there is some urine in the blood. She is still walking, jumping, eating and unlike humans in similar health conditions, she has absolutely no self-pity.

There is always "hope" -- but false hope is no hope at all.

One moment at a time.

Thanks.
__________________
“The soul is the same in all living creatures, although the body of each is different.”
—Hippocrates
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 PM.