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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:38 AM
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Update on Nanook-How can you get 2 completely opposite diagnosis in the same day

Morning all! It's been a very, very busy week. As some of you know, Nanook was sick again last Friday. After I posted, he threw up and was very bloated. I did not make it to the new vet (over an hour away) and instead, took him to the original vet as he looked like he was not doing well at all. They had me drop him off and leave him for the day. I asked that if any tests or treatment need to be done, please call me first.

They called me to come in and talk to the doctor, so I did. He went on to say that Nanook was in pretty bad shape but stable for the moment and said he needed to go to the hospital for overnight monitoring. They thought initially he had a twisted gut so they took x-rays. Turns out he had a bad bout of gas. Stomach was full, bowel was full and a huge pocket of gas in between. They also did chest x-rays and he pointed out a couple of spots and said his lungs were very bad, he could hear alot of lung sounds, which wasn't good and that it looked as though he had a bit of lung collapse. They also tested him for Pancreatitis, which was negative. The vet went on to tell me he felt very bad for us, he knew we spent alot of money and he was sorry. Then said no one at the clinic would "morally judge" us if we decided to euthanize him at this point. I was in tears, of course. He told me to stop the steroid completely because it was supressing his immune system too much. I told him I had read that was very dangerous, that he would have to be weaned off (he's on a 30mg dose 2x daily-60mg total). He just said "well, there is no right or wrong here. We have to do what's best for him. I don't know the outcome or effect but he needs to be taken off them for his immune system to recover". He also said again he didn't think it was Meningitis, just a case of juvenille epilepsy and he should remain on phenobarb. He said that after everything Nanook had been through he was afraid the lung infection was going to be his demise then hit me with an $800 bill.

We took him to the hospital to be monitored overnight. When we got there we had to pay their vet $150.00 for an "exam" fee even though we transferred him from the clinic to the hospital. He already had the IV and fluid bag and had just left our clinic and $240 to monitor him overnight.
I will say that I am glad their vet did examine him. He said that he thought clinically, Nanook looked pretty good and would probably feel better once he had a poo. So we took him out for a walk, he had a big poo and was alot perkier. We got back in to the hospital and the vet checked his respiritory and said he didn't hear the typical gurgling and crackle you would hear in a dog with acute pneumonia. He looked at the x-rays taken that day and compared them to the x-rays taken the last time he was in the hospital (a week and a half previous) and said it looked to him that there was improvement and he would equate Nanook's pneumonia with that of walking pneumonia in a person. He said he should be treated with antibiotics for 6-8 weeks to make sure it would take care of it completely. We told him our vet had said stop the steroids immediately and we were concerned with doing that. He said he would not stop the steroids, especially so abruptly. He said there was no evidence that it was hindering the antibiotic at this point and again said he saw improvement and the treatment should be at least 6 weeks. He said after the full course of antibiotics, if Nanook was not recovering from the pneumonia they may take a look at weaning the dose down at that point. He said we should consider weaning him off the phenobarb then said they would watch him overnight and if he was doing well, we could pick him up in the morning.

We called the next morning, he did great throughout the night (all he needed was a good poo). We picked him up then called the vet and told him that the vet at the hospital said he needs to remain on antibiotics for at least another month. He said he agreed completely and would call it in. I told him we had enough for that morning, and that was all and that we were heading out of town for a wedding and would like to pick it up on the way. He said he couldn't do it right away but would make sure it was at the pharmacy and if worse comes to worse, we could pick it up in the morning and he would only miss one dose
I told him that wasn't a good idea if his immune system was so supressed. He said it wouldn't hurt him. I called the pharmacy the next morning, no prescription. He had forgotten to call it in. I called the emrgency number (was a Sunday morn) and spoke with one of the girls from the clinic. They finally reached him at 3 in the afternoon and got him to call it in, so he missed a full day. That was the last chance. That is so negligent... I can't even begin to express how angry I was that he would put our baby in jeopardy like that. We have since transferred all of his, and Thorins, files.

We went straight to an internal specialist on Monday morning and told her about everything that had happened with our clinic, she couldn't believe it. She said it was good that we ignored his instructions to stop the steroid as that would have been extremely dangerous for Nanook. She also said she didn't agree that he has epilepsy and should remain on phenobarb and after weaning the dose for steroids down to a lower, steady level, she wants to wean him completely off the phenobarb and see what happens. She is doing it in stages because she said if she did them at the same time and he had another seizure, she wouldn't know if it was because the steroid dose was too low or he actually does need the phenobarb, which made complete sense to us. She was also very upset that Nanook went from Saturday morning to Sunday night without antibiotic. She said it's bad for any dog, but very bad with a dog that is as immunosupressed as he is. She thinks what he has is eosinophilic disease. She said they see it in respiritory but that it didin't show in the tests done on his lung fluid, but there were eosinophils in the fluid from his spinal tap. She does think he has it in his gut. She said if she were to try and explain what she thinks it is, the best she could do is Lupus in a human. She said his lungs don't sound bad to her and the x-rays do show improvement. She seemed very positive about his conditions/treatment and said it may be that he will have to remain on steroids very long time, possibly for life, or he may recover after these few months on steroids and be just fine. Even if we have to keep him on medication for life, we're ok with that!

So I guess what really bothers me is that one vet would have us considering euthansia, then hit me with an $800 bill even after I told them to call me prior to doing any tests, which he did not, and within the same hour another vet who seemed to think he just had a bad bout of gas and needed to poo, then should be fine, while 2 days later the specialist agreed that his outlook was not near as grim as our vet had made it out to be. She was also asking us why he did the pancreatitis tests and seemed to think it was not needed at all. Who knows
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Last edited by Rgeurts; August 26th, 2010 at 11:41 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 12:01 PM
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Holy moly! Poor Nanook and your poor wallet

Geesh, even I know you never stop steroids cold turkey unless it was life or death Glad to hear you transferred his files

Eosinophil cells, aren't they normally related to allergies?
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Old August 26th, 2010, 12:18 PM
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I am so sorry that you and Nanook are going through this. I hate to say this but your vet was taking advantage of the fact he knew you would do almost anything to save Nanook. If you did not authorize test you should not be paying for them, you asked to be called and were not. If you have not paid this whole bill yet I would seriously consider not paying the rest or in my opinion I would call the society that covers veterinarians and speak to them this seems unethical to me. Also the that you had to pay again at the hospital does not seem right. I know you have spent a small fortune and I think your vet was taking advantage of you.
I am very glad to hear Nanook is doing better. Good vibes coming your way for both of you
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Old August 26th, 2010, 12:21 PM
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to you for all you've been through. Poor Nanook. Did they say the bloat is something you will have to watch for with him now?
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Old August 26th, 2010, 07:27 PM
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All I can say is I'm sure glad you found the internist, Robyn!! I'm glad he's feeling some better. I hope the new vet can get him back on the right road!
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Old August 26th, 2010, 08:41 PM
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Keeping Nanook in my thoughts. Not having definite answers is so hard. Your sweet guy sure has a fighting spirit. Try to stay strong.
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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastifflover View Post
I am so sorry that you and Nanook are going through this. I hate to say this but your vet was taking advantage of the fact he knew you would do almost anything to save Nanook. If you did not authorize test you should not be paying for them, you asked to be called and were not. If you have not paid this whole bill yet I would seriously consider not paying the rest or in my opinion I would call the society that covers veterinarians and speak to them this seems unethical to me. Also the that you had to pay again at the hospital does not seem right. I know you have spent a small fortune and I think your vet was taking advantage of you.
I am very glad to hear Nanook is doing better. Good vibes coming your way for both of you
Thank you for the good vibes
I will be contacting the AVMA to report him. The fact that I now feel he took advantage of us is bad enough, but the negligence and borderline incompetence is the worst part for us.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post

Eosinophil cells, aren't they normally related to allergies?

I don't remember exactly what she said, but she did say Eosinophil cells are typical of an allergic reaction. The fact that they showed up in his cerebral fluid means that he has swelling and what they call meningoencephalomyelitis or EME, and idiopathic as they don't know the cause, which is good in a way. If it were infectious he would have a lesser chance of recovery. She believes it is an autoimmune disorder and called it eosinophilic syndrome (or something like that). She said they often see the eosinophils in the respiritory tract and the gut as well, which would explain the bloat, gas and diarrhea. She said she's quite sure if they did a stomach biopsy, that's what they would find and said the best way to explain is to equate it to human lupus. She said the transtracheal flush did not show any eosinophils though, which I'm sure is a good thing. We really did like her alot. She was so caring, and gave him lots of loves while she was checking him over... and said we had already done enough tests and spent enough money so she wasn't going to request anymore diagnostics, at least for now. She said it would be great to do an MRI and would be very interesting for her to study, but then said she wouldn't recommend it as it would have no real value to him at this point, it would just be more for her curiosity lol.
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
to you for all you've been through. Poor Nanook. Did they say the bloat is something you will have to watch for with him now?
She wants us to keep an eye on him. She thinks he may have food sensitivities and had us put him on a simple diet (switching food slowly) and something he has not been exposed to. We chose the Wellness Simple line, duck and rice. Hopefully it will help him She said he cannot have anything raw, at all. I guess because of his immune system and the possibilty of parasite infection and bacteria. She's hoping the prednisone will help with his gut also and if there are eosinophils, it should.

Thanks for all the good vibes everyone, hubby and I appreciate it!!
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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
All I can say is I'm sure glad you found the internist, Robyn!! I'm glad he's feeling some better. I hope the new vet can get him back on the right road!
Thank you hazelrun! It's looking promising, so far!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottieDog View Post
Keeping Nanook in my thoughts. Not having definite answers is so hard. Your sweet guy sure has a fighting spirit. Try to stay strong.
Thank you very much ScottieDog! And yes, he's a little fighter, for sure! We're hoping we will be able to enjoy him for many years, but there's still a possibility that he may not make it. If not, at least we are lucky enough to have him up to that point
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old August 26th, 2010, 11:39 PM
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Wow. Poor Nanook. And poor you . I really hope things turn around for the better really soon, you all deserve it .
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Old August 27th, 2010, 06:03 AM
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I'm sorry to hear about what poor Nanook has been thru. And you and your hubby too! Like someone said if u haven't paid for the tests that u weren't called about I wouldn't pay! that is just terrible how that vet treated u and poor Nanook!

Does this mean u will be taking Nanook to the internist from now on or do u have a new reg. vet now too?

Give Nanook a hug from me!

Debbie
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Old August 27th, 2010, 06:55 AM
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I am glad you found a vet you like . It is so important when you have enough worries about your pup, that you don't have to mistrust your vet too.

If she is so curious about the results of a MRI, could she not foot the bill for it?
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Old August 27th, 2010, 09:29 AM
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OMG Robin,this is almost unbelievable,I too would contact the AVMA,something is very wrong here and it's costing you a fortune,not to mention the emotional stress on you,your husband and poor Nanook,it's the worst I think,I have ever heard of.

it is something as relatively simple like allergies,which your very first vet should have considered from the beginning.
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Old August 27th, 2010, 09:37 AM
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It just angers me so when people take advantage of people when they are at there worst. That is truly despicable and after reading what you have been through my blood was boiling at the fact he is blatantly robbing you and worse not helping Nanook. I am glad you have found someone who seems to want to help you and Nanook. Please keep us updated on you and of course the cutie pie Nanook and a big hug for the furkid
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Old August 27th, 2010, 10:16 AM
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I pray that Nanook will recover from all of this and go on to live a happy healthy life. You're such good people to give him all this care, and blessed that you are able to. I agree that reporting this vet is required. He's taking advantage of you and not following your directions. So glad you have found somebody you trust.
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Old August 28th, 2010, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post

Does this mean u will be taking Nanook to the internist from now on or do u have a new reg. vet now too?

Give Nanook a hug from me!

The internal specialist will be working with our new vet, who she knows very well. She said the new vet is very smart, knows her stuff and she hardly ever gets referrals from her because she handles difficult cases well. So we're pretty happy with the choice, and loved how they both treated Nanook when meeting him

Debbie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post


If she is so curious about the results of a MRI, could she not foot the bill for it?

LoL, We were hoping maybe she would!! An MRI here is $2500. I did contact the vet teaching hospital in Sasakatoon and the lady there said an MRI is about $600. Maybe once we recover a bit financially we will go have it done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
OMG Robin,this is almost unbelievable,I too would contact the AVMA,something is very wrong here and it's costing you a fortune,not to mention the emotional stress on you,your husband and poor Nanook,it's the worst I think,I have ever heard of.

it is something as relatively simple like allergies,which your very first vet should have considered from the beginning.
to all of you

I will be contacting them to make a complaint Monday as well as a complaint regarding the hospital. The fact that they charged us $700 for a surgery to take fluid for cultures, then didn't do the cultures just angers me to no end. Our original vet said after he requested them a second time he got results stating nothing grew
They said it was full of bacteria when they pulled it out of him, so how nothng grew from that is beyond me. I think they either didn't do it or they messed up the sample.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastifflover View Post
It just angers me so when people take advantage of people when they are at there worst. That is truly despicable and after reading what you have been through my blood was boiling at the fact he is blatantly robbing you and worse not helping Nanook. I am glad you have found someone who seems to want to help you and Nanook. Please keep us updated on you and of course the cutie pie Nanook and a big hug for the furkid

I agree, it is despicable. The money isn't the worst part for me, it's the neglect. But hopefully now Nanook will be on the road to recovery
Thanks again all for the hugs and good vibes!! When the specialist walked into the room, Nanook was just sitting there. She said "Well hello handsome!" and he stuck his paw up to give her a high five and shake! She said "Well... aren't you polite!" And I said "not really, he's now expecting a treat!". His new thing is to high five everyone. We taught him that, it took about 3 or 4 times and that was it. He's SO food motivated lol
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old August 28th, 2010, 01:30 AM
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I pray that Nanook will recover from all of this and go on to live a happy healthy life. You're such good people to give him all this care, and blessed that you are able to. I agree that reporting this vet is required. He's taking advantage of you and not following your directions. So glad you have found somebody you trust.
Thank you so much Dog Dancer! I feel we really are blessed to have been able to take care of him. I feel horrible for people that can't and have to put their babies to sleep. And yes, I really like both the new vet and the specialist. Even if we do lose him in the end, I know that these 2 will have actually done the best they can for him
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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Old August 28th, 2010, 09:40 AM
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Thanks again all for the hugs and good vibes!! When the specialist walked into the room, Nanook was just sitting there. She said "Well hello handsome!" and he stuck his paw up to give her a high five and shake! She said "Well... aren't you polite!" And I said "not really, he's now expecting a treat!". His new thing is to high five everyone. We taught him that, it took about 3 or 4 times and that was it. He's SO food motivated lol
I think that is adorable! LOL
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Old August 28th, 2010, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Rgeurts View Post
Thanks again all for the hugs and good vibes!! When the specialist walked into the room, Nanook was just sitting there. She said "Well hello handsome!" and he stuck his paw up to give her a high five and shake! She said "Well... aren't you polite!" And I said "not really, he's now expecting a treat!". His new thing is to high five everyone. We taught him that, it took about 3 or 4 times and that was it. He's SO food motivated lol
Awwwwww , now that is the way to win a vet's heart

How is he doing today?
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Old August 28th, 2010, 04:03 PM
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Robin,how sweet,after all he's been through with vets,it's a wonder he's not terrified
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Old August 28th, 2010, 07:54 PM
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How is he doing today?

He's doing great the last couple of days! His breathing doesn't seem near as labored and he's running around and actually trying to play a little. His appetite is most definitely back too lol. He's such a piggy
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Old August 28th, 2010, 07:56 PM
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That is so great ! A good appetite is always a good sign
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  #22  
Old August 29th, 2010, 07:29 AM
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That's is great news,I was almost afraid to open your post..
I guess every good day is encouraging,one day at a time and I keep my for continued progress
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  #23  
Old August 29th, 2010, 04:53 PM
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I am both horrified and angry at your initial vet. What a terrible thing to do to Nanook and his parents I also can't believe how much you were charged and that you were charged twice for the exams especially after he appeared to feel sorry for the amount of money you'd already spent.grrrr Sounds like the clinic's motivation is the almighty $$, not the animals they should be there for
Quote:
They said it was full of bacteria when they pulled it out of him, so how nothng grew from that is beyond me. I think they either didn't do it or they messed up the sample.
Sounds likely to me. It is unforgiveable what he did and I hope you get some positive results from reporting him to the AVMA. With any good luck he has other complaints on file and your episode will cause him to be sanctioned. He shouldn't be allowed to practice but unfortunately there are many of them out there just like him.

When I read your post it made me thank my lucky stars that I have a vet whom I trust and who has been very good to me and my brood over the last 20 years. She is an angel

Quote:
When the specialist walked into the room, Nanook was just sitting there. She said "Well hello handsome!" and he stuck his paw up to give her a high five and shake! She said "Well... aren't you polite!" And I said "not really, he's now expecting a treat!". His new thing is to high five everyone. We taught him that, it took about 3 or 4 times and that was it. He's SO food motivated lol
How adorable lol Nanook sounds like a wonderful furby

I hope everything continues to improve for Nanook and for your pocket book. I was so happy to read that you have found a new vet who sounds like she is there for the animals. The fact that Nanook is now getting better is also excellent. Good luck to you, your hubby and of course Nanook sending
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  #24  
Old August 29th, 2010, 05:42 PM
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Glad to hear there's improvement! Way to go, Nanook!!!! Now keep it up handsome boy!
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Old August 30th, 2010, 08:04 AM
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I am so glad Nanook is feeling better and hopefully will keep improving. All
weekend I kept hoping for improvement Yeah this made me happy.
By the way it has been a while since we have seen pics cuz I am sure you have nothing else to worry about but they would be nice nudge nudge
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Old August 30th, 2010, 01:04 PM
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I am so happy that Nanook is doing better!! That is great news!
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Old August 30th, 2010, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE=dbg10;947974]I am both horrified and angry at your initial vet. Sounds like the clinic's motivation is the almighty $$, not the animals they should be there for

I agree completely! Nevermind the money, but the fact that they failed to properly treat him just disgusts me.


It is unforgiveable what he did and I hope you get some positive results from reporting him to the AVMA. With any good luck he has other complaints on file and your episode will cause him to be sanctioned. He shouldn't be allowed to practice but unfortunately there are many of them out there just like him.

I'm now considering not making the complaint, at least right now. We just found out that the hospital that charged us for the "exam fee" after transferring him directly from our clinic to the hospital (not once, but 3 times now) and who screwed up the bacterial cultures is owned by the same people our specialist works for
She's awesome, but I don't know if she will remain that way if we decide to file an official complaint against her employers, so we're kinda stuck for now. They own both hospitals here in Edmonton and the hospital in Calgary as well as both specialist centres.


Good luck to you, your hubby and of course Nanook sending

Thank you
[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Glad to hear there's improvement! Way to go, Nanook!!!! Now keep it up handsome boy!

Here's hoping!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastifflover View Post
I am so glad Nanook is feeling better and hopefully will keep improving. All weekend I kept hoping for improvement Yeah this made me happy.
By the way it has been a while since we have seen pics cuz I am sure you have nothing else to worry about but they would be nice nudge nudge

Thank you so much! I will post some piccies in the next couple of days. I have a very cute pic of him in an incriminating position...carrying the waterbowl and making a mess!! We were hoping he would pick up some of Thorins traits. He carries his food bowl and has little picnics everywhere, it's so funny. Nanook did learn from him, but he still hasn't figured out it's the food bowl, NOT the water
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Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
I am so happy that Nanook is doing better!! That is great news!

He's doing very well, so far
Still bloated and full of gas , but acting like a puppy!
I'll post a few piccies after I get home!
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  #28  
Old August 30th, 2010, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
That's is great news,I was almost afraid to open your post..
I guess every good day is encouraging,one day at a time and I keep my for continued progress

Yes, 1 day at a time
We're hoping the good days will start to outweigh the bad now!
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"Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole" - Ok... whoever said this has never had a sick or special needs baby. They ARE our whole life!

R.I.P. my sweet, handsome Thorin. You are missed dearly Dec. 25, 1999 - Mar. 4, 2012
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  #29  
Old August 31st, 2010, 09:29 AM
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does the vet know why he is so bloated? Is he on meds for it...if there are meds for such a thing that is. He must be uncomfortable...poor sweetie.
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  #30  
Old August 31st, 2010, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundra_Queen View Post
does the vet know why he is so bloated? Is he on meds for it...if there are meds for such a thing that is. He must be uncomfortable...poor sweetie.

She thinks he may have Eosinophilic syndrome which often affects the stomach. Diet will be the main thing in keeping it in check. We recently switched him from Wellness large breed puppy to Wellness Simple Duck and Rice. It will be a few weeks before we know if it's going to help. If not, as much as we despise the vet diets, we may have to put him on one and just give him a good supplement. They have 1 diet that is hypo-allergenic and consists of hydrolized ingredients. I feel bad for him, though it doesn't seem to bother him most of the time, as long as he passes the gas.
He was sitting at my feet watching me put his pills in the "meatballs" and let out the longest, squeakiest one I have ever heard from a dog . He was smiling and wagging his tail the whole time
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