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Old July 13th, 2010, 07:03 PM
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MiniTiga MiniTiga is offline
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Home Made Food for Kitty - Diabetic & Renal Friendly

Many of recipes I see on-line and in this forum sound great, but:

1) I am uncomfortable with some of the ingredients (and some posters here have expressed similar concerns, i.e., with carbs)

2) I don't know how to best prepare meals for both diabetic and kidney issues.

Plain boiled chicken and liver works for my feline's palette. (Tried it for the first time this week.) Why add rice? Which veggies are good for diabetic/renal cats?

Otherwise, I found interesting recipes at these sites, but not confident that they are diabetic and renal friendly.

http://users.ameritech.net/critterz/crf_recipes.htm
http://www.healthyrecipesforpets.com...d_recipes.html

Anyone have input on this? I am not "ready" to go raw.

Diabetics can use a high protein/low carb diet, but too much phosphorous is detrimental to compromised kidneys.

Thanks.
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Old July 13th, 2010, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
Many of recipes I see on-line and in this forum sound great, but:

1) I am uncomfortable with some of the ingredients (and some posters here have expressed similar concerns, i.e., with carbs)
You're right to be skeptical about most of the recipes found online. Very few are actually worth feeding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
2) I don't know how to best prepare meals for both diabetic and kidney issues.
It's not impossible to make food that covers both issues, but it does take a fair amount of research. I still think a better idea would be to find a pre-made frozen raw food that fits the bill, like Nature's Variety Instinct Raw, which is low in phosphorus and carbohydrates.

Some things to keep in mind:

-for the diabetes you want to avoid adding grains and too much plant matter, although some shredded low-glycemic veggies like zucchini or green beans can be a good source of fibre if required.

-for the renal insufficiency, stay away from bone meal as a calcium source, and cut back on the amount of fresh bone if you're using that (that's if you're making a raw diet - cooked bones are a no-no). Adding a calcium salt like calcium carbonate (or ground eggshells) to balance the phosphorus (ideally in a 1.2-1.4 to 1 ratio) is preferable, since bones add more phosphorus to the amount in the meat.

-cooked egg whites are an excellent source of low-phosphorus, high quality protein. Unfortunately most cats don't like egg whites, so you'll probably have to mince them very fine and thoroughly mix them into the rest of the meal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
Plain boiled chicken and liver works for my feline's palette. (Tried it for the first time this week.) Why add rice? Which veggies are good for diabetic/renal cats?
Cooked chicken and liver are fine for the occasional treat and it's great that your kitty likes it, but it's terribly unbalanced for regular feeding. At the very least, you'll need to add taurine and calcium, but there are so many other essential nutrients that also need consideration.

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Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
Otherwise, I found interesting recipes at these sites, but not confident that they are diabetic and renal friendly.

http://users.ameritech.net/critterz/crf_recipes.htm
http://www.healthyrecipesforpets.com...d_recipes.html

Anyone have input on this?
I would stay away from both those sites. The first one is outdated, and the second one is a mish-mash of unbalanced recipes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
I am not "ready" to go raw.
I hear ya. I'm also vegetarian. But honestly, the frozen raw foods available are super easy to feed.

Other options are to look into: a complete supplement like the Feline Instincts Kidney formula, which you add to fresh meat. You could also do a phone consult with Dr. Lisa Pierson of www.catinfo.org, who has extensive experience treating both diabetic and CRF kitties. You'll find her email addy about 2/3 of the way down this page, after the part where she says: "Note: I do not recommend this recipe for CKD (Chronic Kidney Disease) cats." http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood There is a fee for this, just so you know.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 08:12 AM
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OK - that's a launch pad.

She doesn't always lick her bowl clean, so my objective was to find enticing home-made treats in between commercial canned food. I can't possibly cook each meal -- especially not with the limited info available. (I contacted AAFCO in a quest to find out what daily nutritional requirements are for healthy felines and a volunteer rep replied with a convoluted response, referring me to the National Research Council (NRC). I've asked numerous vets, as well, and they don't have figures or numbers. I don't think anyone can duplicate the diet intended by nature -- which made the feline a predatory hunter of healthy prey, blood, guts and -- LIVE ENERGY.

When reflecting on calchos issues relevant to kidneys, I wondered why supplementing additional calcium to high phosphorus meals wouldn't be as good or better than using a phosphorous binder with calcium, as my vet suggested. So, now, I see how egg shells can be used in a home-made treat.

(An aside, as far as you know, calcium sulfate doesn't supply usable calcium, does it? It's the #1 ingredient in her enzyme powder mix.)

I like the way she chose the bigger pieces of cooked meat over the tiny pieces I diced. It's in the least, a minimal source of natural iron, protein and vitamin A, even if it falls short of ideal. And ultmately, it introduces her to the concept of chewing a different type of texture. She has only known kibble crunch before her wet food transition.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a financial position to contact any other vets for consultations or to do an all raw diet. I could most likely swing occassional commercial raw meals, like the one you suggested.

Meanwhile, was hoping for some kind of tried and true recipe to fit her health condition.

Like (making it up) tiny meatballs made of:
Chicken thighs
Liver
Olive oil
Tomato sauce
Parmesan cheese
Egg shells --

Arent' tomatoes toxic to cats? I didn't read that until years after realizing my cat would secretly hunt my emptied bowl of pasta -- which would always have lingering garlic tomato sauce to lick up. Garlic is toxic, too, they say, but I read so many cat recipes that include them.

Thanks, as always, Sugarcatmom!
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Old July 15th, 2010, 09:02 AM
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Have you checked out these websites?

http://www.catinfo.org/

http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php

I use the recipe in the catinfo website and have great success with it.

My coworker is a very strict vegetarian and she feeds her cats raw, she hates making it, but does what is best for her kitties. She uses the premixed additives, TC Instincts??? and has had very good success with her one kitty that has chronic diarrhea while eating commercial cat food. I think it is so she doesn't have to grind bones and such .
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Old July 15th, 2010, 09:16 AM
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I agree with SCM, they are not good recipes for cats.

The first one which includes alfalfa has high calcium levels in it. I think the simpler the better when it comes to cat's diets. When you start adding plant matter, you have do your research to find out what minerals they contain to ensure you are feeding your cat a balanced diet. Most of those ingredients are just not necessary for a cat.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

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Old July 18th, 2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
(I contacted AAFCO in a quest to find out what daily nutritional requirements are for healthy felines and a volunteer rep replied with a convoluted response, referring me to the National Research Council (NRC). I've asked numerous vets, as well, and they don't have figures or numbers.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....1+2244&aid=657

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
I wondered why supplementing additional calcium to high phosphorus meals wouldn't be as good or better than using a phosphorous binder with calcium, as my vet suggested
If you use a calcuim based phos binder you are actually adding more calcuim to the food while removing the phosphorus from it. Using an aluminum based binder doesn't tip the scales that badly, plus the aluminum ones are apparently more effective.

I used human grade ground raw chicken from the butcher & added Feline Futures Instincts Plus Chicken Liver. (Different from the formula scm posted) They do have a receipe on the site for kidney cats but it's a reduced protein & replaces some of the meat with squash/yams but I just used the regular receipe. As far as diabetes is concerned:

Quote:
Our raw diet premix and the resulting diet is void of carbohydrates and only contains traces of glycogen from the liver in the formula
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Old July 19th, 2010, 06:22 AM
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Yes, Growler, ironically or coincidentally... or just simply because we're both on the same page...

I included that very same link in my correspondence to AAFCO with a request to help me understand how to apply it. I asked numerous vets and they could not interpret it -- as far as determining what the recommended daily allowances of vitamins, minerals, etc. are for felines.

Can you? It takes some calculation because these nutrients are recommendations based on kilogram of food - or dry matter, more specifically.

And yes, the calcium thought was not wrapped around a binder -- it was a reflection on keeping calciumhos proportions when feeding home prepared meat. (We delved into binders on another thread. Thanks again. Yes, it seems aluminum based is the way to go.)

Mentioned mixes and products are interesting and good to be aware of -- especially when someone I am communicating with has used them successfully. Right now, raw is a hard sell for my kitty. It's not an immediate attraction for her.

I tried medium rare chicken, with some pieces having some of the blood still dripping. It wasn't a show stopper, but she did lick it (loving the broth) and consumed one slightly more cooked piece.

In turn, I experimented with a recipe that went over really well:

Chicken thigh (run through the food processor)
Olive oil (just a touch)
Tomato Sauce (just a dab)
Pulverized egg shells

She ate it ravenously -- wet food style -- as a treat -- to fill in the gap for incomplete staple meal portions.

And before bedtime (as she has a habit of meowing in the middle of the night for food), I packed this mixture into bite-size pieces, and very lightly sprinkled the introductory pieces with (veggie) "parmesan" cheese to entice her to try it. That was a smash hit -- and the rest I gave to her without the cheese.

Thank you for all of your wonderful insights on raw!

I just needed an immediate appetizer in the moment with food she is more apt to eat -- and as a result of reflecting through this thread, we found a treat that boosts her energy and keeps the overnight hunger pangs away. She slept through the night for the first time after these bedtime treats.

Regard to all.
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Old July 30th, 2010, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
Can you? It takes some calculation because these nutrients are recommendations based on kilogram of food - or dry matter, more specifically.
Unfortunately math has never been a strong point of mine , so I'm not so good with that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniTiga View Post
She ate it ravenously -- wet food style -- as a treat -- to fill in the gap for incomplete staple meal portions.
Good to hear her appetite is strong
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