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Old June 26th, 2010, 03:22 PM
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NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
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Ontario fur managers federation...

I am will be trying to fight and change regulations that pretains to trapping furbearing animals.

I will post the whole fur management regualations, but will also post tidbits of it on here. Mainly the tidbits that I am fighting to change.

http://www.furmanagers.com/section.aspx?section=regs

Here are some the

25. It is illegal for any person to:

b) Set leghold traps for beaver, otter, mink or muskrat unless the trap is set under ice, or it is attached to a sliding lock or a heavy object and set in such a manner that the captured animal would be immediately submerged and drowned. This does not apply to a leghold trap set for mink or muskrat if the trap will sub-merge the animal in water immediately upon springing the trap or the trap is heavy enough to prevent it from resurfacing.

From my understanding it is illegal to drown an animal, and that is causing unnessary suffering...THIS needs to be changed!!!

27. A trapper or a farmer shall inspect at least once daily every live-holding trap set by him in that part of Ontario south of the most northerly east-west line of the Canadian National Railway Company.

Hmm..serisously?? Once a day?? Again seriously? Apparently as well, it is suitable to check on once a day WITHIN a 24 hours. I wonder how many animals suffer, from being injured, heat stroke, dehydration, starve, etc.

BUT then they add this is their Code of Conducts: This is laughable:

Up-to-date Conibear or similar killing traps should be used in trapping to ensure that captured animals are trapped as efficiently and humanely as possible. buutt letting a animal die a slow death by drowing or sitting in a trap injured, heat stoke, etc..all while being checked once daily..it considered humane!!!

I just posted a few, although i don't agree with trapping at all, it sadly will be done for generations to come, however saying that...it doesn't mean that it is right to let animals suffer. Trapping an animal, should kill the animal instantly.

Also...i have to wonder why some methods are ok for some animals and other are not? All animals feel pain and suffer. If one is not right, then it should not be right for all. If anyone wants to enlighten me and tell me that this methods are humane...please try...

Last edited by NoahGrey; June 26th, 2010 at 04:20 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:08 PM
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Why does anybody need fur anyways , there is technology out there now that is just as warm
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:21 PM
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I hear ya Love4himies...however the "powers that be", would say it helps with conservation, etc.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:51 PM
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Geesh, what a lame excuse. I didn't think they trapped anymore, guess I'm just naive.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Geesh, what a lame excuse. I didn't think they trapped anymore, guess I'm just naive.

This is from the Ontario Fur management Federation site:

Trapping... Our Naturally Renewable Heritage
Our Federation, with the support of individual trappers, along with natural resource partners and others, will promote our heritage and our future through sustainable, professional and humane fur management practices.

Our Mission
To promote the conservation and sustainability of fur bearers and the eco-system.
To promote the general welfare of the trappers of Ontario.
To promote the humane harvest of fur bearers on a continual basis.
To promote and participate in the continuing education of fur harvesters.
To promote and participate in public education and awareness.
To represent the trappers of Ontario in any and all resource management issues.

As you can see from some of the reguations above...they are contradicting themselves.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 08:46 PM
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The link supplied is not complete, as soon as the page opens it makes the following statement:
"This summary is neither a legal document nor complete collection of the current trapping and fur dealing regulations. It is prepared for purposes of convenience only."

The complete Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act can be found here:
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/sta...7f41_e.htm#BK9

I am not a trapper but one thing I'd like to point out is that it is highly unlikely any animal is going to suffer heat stroke while caught in a trap. Open season for all but a very few furbearers is only during the colder months, ranging between Oct. to March (some until May) depending on species. Neither does starvation occur in a 24 hour period.
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Last edited by Gail P; June 26th, 2010 at 09:23 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail P View Post
I am not a trapper but one thing I'd like to point out is that it is highly unlikely any animal is going to suffer heat stroke while caught in a trap. Open season for all but a very few furbearers is only during the colder months, ranging between Oct. to March (some until May) depending on species. Neither does starvation occur in a 24 hour period.
Heat stroke can occur while sitting in a trap. I have witnessed animals have heat stoke while trapped. Domestic and wildlife. Also depending on their current body condition at the time of trapping, an animal can strave within a 24 hour period.

I'll check the link again...seems to work on my end.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahGrey View Post
Heat stroke can occur while sitting in a trap. I have witnessed animals have heat stoke while trapped. Domestic and wildlife. Also depending on their current body condition at the time of trapping, an animal can strave within a 24 hour period.

I'll check the link again...seems to work on my end.
You've seen heat stroke in the winter time, really? I'm quite surprised, I'd think hypothermia would be more likely. And how many people feed their pets only once daily (once in a 24 hour period, the same frequency that the traps must be checked). Nobody accuses once-a-day feeders of trying to starve their animals. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just trying to play devil's advocate here...if you want to help facilitate changes that's great but these the kinds of challenges you'll be faced with from the "other side". You'll need to be prepared to meet these challenges in a manner that makes sense and suggesting to a bunch of trappers that the animals are going to suffer heat stroke in January isn't likely to fly with them. They'll write you off as a "bleeding heart" and tune you out.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail P View Post
You've seen heat stroke in the winter time, really? I'm quite surprised, I'd think hypothermia would be more likely. And how many people feed their pets only once daily (once in a 24 hour period, the same frequency that the traps must be checked). Nobody accuses once-a-day feeders of trying to starve their animals. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just trying to play devil's advocate here...if you want to help facilitate changes that's great but these the kinds of challenges you'll be faced with from the "other side". You'll need to be prepared to meet these challenges in a manner that makes sense and suggesting to a bunch of trappers that the animals are going to suffer heat stroke in January isn't likely to fly with them. They'll write you off as a "bleeding heart" and tune you out.
Huh..I am taking about trapping animals in the summer...not winter lol Besides the main topic, that i was referring that it seems to be acceptable to drown an animal. I was only making a reference to heat stoke, for animals that are trapped during summer. Yes, are right..in winter it would be hyperthermia. Seen that too.

As for your comment about nobody accuses oonce a day feeders trying to starve their animals... not to be rude, but I didn't say that and think you are missing the point. I was making a point in leaving an animal in a trap for a 24 hour period, leaving to to possible to suffer...again whether it be heat stoke, hyperthermia, injuries, dehyration and yes even starvation..again depending on the animals body condition. All that could possible have been prevented if the regulation of checking the trap was changed. Why do you think when you went a trap, from a wildlife organziation or Humane Society, it is enforced that the trap be monitored every hour or so. For the welfare of the animal....and that pertains to domestic or wildlife.

Trappers trap animals in every season...not just winter.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 12:48 PM
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The point about once-a-day feeding was raised only because if we deem that to be an acceptable practice for feeding pets then it is unlikely to be seen as unacceptable to deprive wildlife of food for the same length of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahGrey View Post
Trappers trap animals in every season...not just winter.
Not legally they don't, with the exception of red fox and skunk. You need to really know this stuff to be able to effectively rally for change. Here are the open seasons as listed on the link you provided:

Open seasons (all dates are inclusive)

Beaver
1. October 5 - May 15 in the year next following. Part 1 and 2.
2. October 5 - April 30 in the year next following. Part 3a.
3. October 15 - April 30 in the year next following. Part 3b.
4. October 25 –Apri 30 in the year next following. Part 4a and 4b.

Otter
1. October 5 - May 15 in the year next following. Part 1 and 2.
2. October 5 - March 31 in the year next following. Part 3a.
3. October 15 - March 31 in the year next following. Part 3b.
4. October 25 - March 31 in the year next following. Part 4a and 4b.

Bobcat, Lynx
October 25 - the last day of February in the year next following. Throughout Ontario.

Mink
1. October 15 - last day of February in the year next following. Part 1,2 and 3a.
2. October 25 - last day of February in the next year following. Part 3b.
3. October 25 -January 15 in the year next following. Part 4a and 4b.

Muskrat
1. October 5 - May 31 in the year next following. Part 1.
2. October 5 - May 21 in the year next following. Part 2 and 3a.
3. October 15 - May 21 in the year next following. Part 3b.
4. October 15 - May 10 in the year next following. Part 4a.
5. October 25 - April 30 in the year next following. Part 4b.

Fisher and Marten
1. October 25 - last day of February in the year next following. Part 1, 2, 3a and 3b.
2. October 25 - January 15 in the year next following. Part 4a and 4b.

Coloured Fox (All phases of the "RED" fox.)
1. September 15 - the last day of February in the year next following. Part 1, 2, 3a and 3b
2. No closed season. Part 4a and 4b.

Opossum and Badger
1. October 25 - January 15 in the next year following. All Parts.

Raccoon
1. October 15 - January 15 in the year next following. All Parts.

Arctic Fox
1. October 25 - March 31 in the year next following. Throughout Ontario.

Grey Fox, Red Squirrel, Weasel
1. October 25 - the last day of February in the year next following. Throughout Ontario.

Coyote, Wolf
1. See the Hunting Summary for open seasons.

Skunk
1. No closed season throughout Ontario.

Black Bear
1. See the Hunting Summary for open seasons.

As for the drowning issue, I "believe" that the type of traps used for animals such as beaver, muskrat etc. are designed to kill and that having the animal submerged "may" be the failsafe method of making sure that the animal is not left languishing in the trap for a longer time than drowning would take, if they do not immediately die in the trap. In addition, having the carcass submerged would protect both meat and pelt from land predators and prevent spoilage of the meat.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 01:38 PM
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NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail P View Post
Not legally they don't, with the exception of red fox and skunk..
Sorry I meant trapper trap in every season..meaning they are doing it illegally. poachers are everywhere.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail P View Post
As for the drowning issue, I "believe" that the type of traps used for animals such as beaver, muskrat etc. are designed to kill and that having the animal submerged "may" be the failsafe method of making sure that the animal is not left languishing in the trap for a longer time than drowning would take, if they do not immediately die in the trap. In addition, having the carcass submerged would protect both meat and pelt from land predators and prevent spoilage of the meat.
I understand were you are coming from, however from the below regulation it is stating the the animal in trapped alive, then submerged in the water to drown. Drowning is a slow agaonzing death, that I think you would agree with. I guess what I am saying is that it seems to be acceptable to be inhumane and cruel, because it will prevent spoilage of the meat, etc.

b) Set leghold traps for beaver, otter, mink or muskrat unless the trap is set under ice, or it is attached to a sliding lock or a heavy object and set in such a manner that the captured animal would be immediately submerged and drowned. This does not apply to a leghold trap set for mink or muskrat if the trap will sub-merge the animal in water immediately upon springing the trap or the trap is heavy enough to prevent it from resurfacing.
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