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  #31  
Old June 21st, 2010, 09:19 AM
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Thank you for your explanation, Abe. It does matter and is obviously needed. It is unfortunate that you and other members of your faith or any other faith for that matter are put in a position (on this board or elsewhere) where you need to defend or explain your religion. Unfortunately, there is far too much ignorance and misinformation about Islam here in North America, although I believe and hope that this is slowly changing.
As in predominantly Islam countries towards Christianity.

Marko,

I have to agree with 14+ kitties, nobody is bashing the religion, just the treatment of dogs. I am reading that some members are getting defensive and taking things the wrong way . Just my
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  #32  
Old June 21st, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Just curious how a simple post about a media article caused such a rigamarol...I haven't seen anyone bashing SS,,and i see no reason why this thread has become about a certain religion instead of what the original topic was...Like 14+ i was wondering what happens to the animals people already have as pets...

On a side note,,having met a laaaaarge majority of the pets.ca member in person,,14+ included,,i have to say being in a minority also...I have NEVER met a more non-judgemental group of people in my life. Each member has included me no questions asked. Religion or lack of religion,,age, sexual identity,,etc are not an issue here,,how animals are treated is...
  #33  
Old June 21st, 2010, 09:41 AM
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Like 14+ i was wondering what happens to the animals people already have as pets...
I too am curious about that answer, maybe S.S.S has an opinion on it.

I would suspect that more religious Muslims will give their pets up for adoption (and that does make me feel sad), and the less religious may disregard the cleric's Fatwa. Drinking alcohol is also prohibited by Islam but many Muslims drink...it's all a matter of religious devotion imo.
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  #34  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:06 AM
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Thank you ladies for the support. Believe me, it is very much appreciated.
I just want to know one thing........... WHERE'S ONSTER???!!!??? She would be able to present some answers to our questions in a calm manner. Onster sweetie - please check in sometime soon while visiting family in Egypt. WE MISS YOU!!!!!!!!
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  #35  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:07 AM
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Marko,I think your comment was directed at me and I have deleted the part of my post that went over what you accept.
I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on,not step on anyones toes.
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  #36  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
I would suspect that more religious Muslims will give their pets up for adoption (and that does make me feel sad), and the less religious may disregard the cleric's Fatwa. Drinking alcohol is also prohibited by Islam but many Muslims drink...it's all a matter of religious devotion imo.
If this is what you suspect then pray tell what opinion do you have as to who they give them up to? In a country where the leaders pass these rules would they allow animal shelters and rescues to exist? Just wondering.
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  #37  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:12 AM
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Marko,I think your comment was directed at me and I have deleted the part of my post that went over what you accept.
I'll keep my opinions to myself from now on,not step on anyones toes.
Chico - Your opinion is as valued as anyone elses on this site. You are well read. You keep up to date on political doings and news. Please don't feel as if you cannot express yourself.
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  #38  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:19 AM
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It's sad to hear of something like this happening. I know there are many service men and women who are actually trying to get some of those cats and dogs they have grown to love over there back home. Even though they are not allowed to keep them on base as pets, many do keep them. I read about one particular dog that was sent back by a soldier, who sent him to his parents. The soldier unfortunately died, but his parents found solace in this little dog that his son loved so much that he wanted to give him a better life.

Sadly, many animals don't have that kind of luck.
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  #39  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:29 AM
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For what it's worth..... it would not surprise me one bit if certain branches of Christianity also believe the same.
Let's learn - not bash please.

What I am incredibly curious about is how this Fatwa (and Fatwas is general) affects Muslims in the western world.
Hello Marco

I am Christian. From the many "branches" I know of, there are none that state you cannot own a dog. Our teachings are that every living thing was created by God and therefore should be valued and cherished.

I do have quite a few Muslim friends. For the most part they are kind people. I know sew-sew-steve stated a Fatwa does not mean a "war", and maybe to most Muslims, this is true. But there are many Islam extremists to whom it does mean war. I think it most especially affects the ones who are living in western civilization as they are the ones who are here to defend their faith and believe they don't have to abide by our laws, like for example the man in Texas who killed his teenage daughter because she was too "westernized" and he didn't want his family shamed.

I think most of the people posting here are just concerned that this Fatwa will eventually mean the slaying of innocent dogs. I know that is my concern. Unfortunately, when a post like this is made, religion is involved and people will discuss it. Some less tactfully than others. But again, I am quite sure the reason for any hostility is not the religion itself, but more the consequence of this Fatwa being taken to the extreme.
  #40  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:36 AM
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Hello Marco
I think most of the people posting here are just concerned that this Fatwa will eventually mean the slaying of innocent dogs. I know that is my concern. Unfortunately, when a post like this is made, religion is involved and people will discuss it. Some less tactfully than others. But again, I am quite sure the reason for any hostility is not the religion itself, but more the consequence of this Fatwa being taken to the extreme.
Thank you Rgeurts! That is my point exactly. My concern is with these poor dogs/cats too? who are going to be ousted.
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  #41  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:43 AM
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Hello Marco

I am Christian. From the many "branches" I know of, there are none that state you cannot own a dog. Our teachings are that every living thing was created by God and therefore should be valued and cherished.

I do have quite a few Muslim friends. For the most part they are kind people. I know sew-sew-steve stated a Fatwa does not mean a "war", and maybe to most Muslims, this is true. But there are many Islam extremists to whom it does mean war. I think it most especially affects the ones who are living in western civilization as they are the ones who are here to defend their faith and believe they don't have to abide by our laws, like for example the man in Texas who killed his teenage daughter because she was too "westernized" and he didn't want his family shamed.

I think most of the people posting here are just concerned that this Fatwa will eventually mean the slaying of innocent dogs. I know that is my concern. Unfortunately, when a post like this is made, religion is involved and people will discuss it. Some less tactfully than others. But again, I am quite sure the reason for any hostility is not the religion itself, but more the consequence of this Fatwa being taken to the extreme.
well said, I think you are bang on!
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  #42  
Old June 21st, 2010, 10:55 AM
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14+ if i'm not mistaken and by what she is posting on fb,,Onster is in Egypt visiting her dad and family...As for the support,,,you've always treated me with respect so i choose to do the same.
  #43  
Old June 21st, 2010, 11:17 AM
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As in Christianity, there are many "branches" of Islam, e.g. Sunni, Shia, Ismaili etc., and often there are differences between the different sects on topics. Generally speaking, though all the prophets including Muhammad, taught that animals are part of God's creation should be treated fairly and compassionately. Unfortunatley, this is not always the case; people get off the "straight path" or follow old cultural traditiions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_animals
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  #44  
Old June 21st, 2010, 11:33 AM
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An interesting comment made about cows being sacred in India and dying in the streets. It's true, but I must let you know that not all cows are considered sacred anymore. That is right...money has come into play where India is now producing cow hides for clothing. So cows now have a dollar value and all of the sudden some that are bred for slaughter are no longer considered sacred. Go figure - money!

There are many misconceptions in regards to other countries and their cultures. Though I am a born Canadian, my heritage is in another country. I don't understand their ways, because I have never lived their ways. I also jump on the bandwagon at times preaching only what I have learned through the media, and we all know that the media sensationalizes on misconceptions.

In my family we have catholics (Me!), protestants, jews, muslims, hindus and buddists. A mish mash of interesting conversation and controversy but in the end, we all have a common ground. Respect.

Sorry off topic.
  #45  
Old June 21st, 2010, 11:41 AM
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i have to say,,,i was raised by anglican parents who didn't practice,,i do not believe in any of the BIBLE gods but i do believe in a higher power...my higher power is loving and gentle..by my own choice i do not choose to believe in ANY religion be it catholic, hindi,,muslim or halebops that condone the killing of any living creature, be it man animal or insect..It was man who decided we are the superior race,,we are screwing up our planet by the gallon right now,,,bombing cities,,killing people in the name of A god...The city i live in is being totally screwed over right now due to a lovely little gathering of political heads that is making certain sections of MY city unavailable to me,,the army is willing to shoot down anything that flies into the no fly zone,,to protect these politicians no matter how many uninvolved people get killed...Seriously,,,do we really want to defend any of the religions or political entities that in anyway condone murder.
  #46  
Old June 21st, 2010, 11:55 AM
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by my own choice i do not choose to believe in ANY religion be it catholic, hindi,,muslim or halebops that condone the killing of any living creature
I know alot of people who believe the way you do (as do I) However, with that statement, I wonder how many of those people choose to eat meat? Animals that are killed for meat, are usually tortured, treated inhumanely and sadly most are slaughted alive. People tend to forget this or just turn a blind eye, more like a out of sight, out of mind mentality, when it comes to animals that are killed for meat...but in the name of eating a burger off the BBQ, people's beliefs seem to go out the window.

Last edited by NoahGrey; June 21st, 2010 at 12:00 PM.
  #47  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:04 PM
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It's sad the majority of Western news we hear about Islam seems to center on extremism. This has a lot to do with news marketing though. "If it bleeds it leads".


I feel very bad for the dogs that will be affected by this ruling because I love dogs. I'd LOVE to know if S.S.S. thinks most Canadian and American Muslims will follow what this Cleric has ruled.

I can tell you this, if I were somewhat religious (like many of my friends) I would ignore this ruling, and I am positive my friends would do the same. Most modern religious people i know do not follow god's law verbatim and do not follow the interpretation of god's law vertabim either. They pick and choose.
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  #48  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:06 PM
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I know alot of people who believe the way you do (as do I) However, with that statement, I wonder how many of those people choose to eat meat? Animals that are killed for meat, are usually tortured, treated inhumanely and sadly most are slaughted alive. People tend to forget this or just turn a blind eye, more like a out of sight, out of mind mentality, when it comes to animals that are killed for meat...but in the name of eating a burger off the BBQ, people's beliefs seem to go out the window.
I prefer to get my nutrition naturally so, yes I do eat meat for that purpose. I do not, however, condone killing animals for the sake of killing them. Especially because some person said they were unclean. Not that I am saying the cleric wants them killed, but there is no doubt that people will do this to eliminate their pet dog.
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  #49  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:09 PM
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Islam seems to be the Pitbull of religion these days.

and as we clearly know around here....you cannot punish the breed, only the deed. (I apologize in advance if this metaphor offends anyone, I just thought it was apropos given that this is a pet site)
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  #50  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:19 PM
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I agree Marko. I do think alot of these things are exactly what you said, interpretation. And I do agree about the media. I, myself, have to deal with alot of that. I am an American living in Canada. I come across alot of Canadians who are very ignorant to me just for that reason and say stupid things like "oh... you're American. Let me just say we do not live in igloos or keep polar bears for pets" as they roll their eyes. I honestly don't know anyone back home who thinks that. So the media does have alot of influence over how people think of others. I, however, did not make my statements soley based on media. I do have a very good Muslim friend who has some family members who are extremists. They truly don't have any respect for westerners or western law. She is bound by their culture, even here. She is a beautiful person. The others, I'm afraid, are not. There are 2 versions of the Koran (not in a literal sense). There is the Koran that teaches love, peace etc, then there is the Koran that teaches war, murder and travesty. They are one and the same. But depending on who is reading it, goes either way. Again, it's all in the interpretation and what's in the heart/mind of the reader.

But I would be interested in whether sss or the community he is in will uphold the ruling.
  #51  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:19 PM
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It's sad the majority of Western news we hear about Islam seems to center on extremism. This has a lot to do with news marketing though. "If it bleeds it leads".

Unfortunately isn't that the way the world learns about other countries these days? I know for a fact other countries base their ideas of us and our neighbours on TV and what comes out in the news. It happens. We have to pick and choose what we believe and what we do not. Most times we retain the worse and get rid of the rest. It's human nature.
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  #52  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:24 PM
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But I would be interested in whether sss or the community he is in will uphold the ruling.
Sew-Sew-Steve is from Kuwait if I remember correctly. This ruling came out of Iran.
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  #53  
Old June 21st, 2010, 12:32 PM
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Ah, ok. Would be interesting to see how the communities here in North America feel about it. As long as they surrender the pets and don't abuse or put them down. It's bad either way, but I would rather see them surrendered. It just breaks my heart to think of all those innocent dogs/puppies who will just be pushed aside.
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Old June 21st, 2010, 12:44 PM
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14+ if i'm not mistaken and by what she is posting on fb,,Onster is in Egypt visiting her dad and family...As for the support,,,you've always treated me with respect so i choose to do the same.
I know Onster is on holiday. I would just love to hear her take on this. She is always very calm and truthful without ruffling feathers.
And thanks.
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  #55  
Old June 21st, 2010, 01:06 PM
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[QUOTE=marko;929775]I feel very bad for the dogs that will be affected by this ruling because I love dogs.
QUOTE]

Interesting statement only because we as Canadians do horrible things to our own dogs. Take a look at the dogs at Mile 26. Look at our shelters and pounds that are packed with animals dogs and cats that are going to be killed. Look at the petstores filled to the rafters and our government here in Canada do absolutely nothing to stop this sickness. And why...because it boils down to money, which is just flippen SICK.

What are Canadians doing to stop our own shortcomings? Why are we worried about those animals in another country when we cannot even preach to our own people.
  #56  
Old June 21st, 2010, 01:15 PM
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[QUOTE=BenMax;929789]
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
I feel very bad for the dogs that will be affected by this ruling because I love dogs.
QUOTE]

Interesting statement only because we as Canadians do horrible things to our own dogs. Take a look at the dogs at Mile 26. Look at our shelters and pounds that are packed with animals dogs and cats that are going to be killed. Look at the petstores filled to the rafters and our government here in Canada do absolutely nothing to stop this sickness. And why...because it boils down to money, which is just flippen SICK.

What are Canadians doing to stop our own shortcomings? Why are we worried about those animals in another country when we cannot even preach to our own people.
Very well said, BenMax
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  #57  
Old June 21st, 2010, 01:44 PM
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[QUOTE=BenMax;929789]
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
I feel very bad for the dogs that will be affected by this ruling because I love dogs.
QUOTE]

Interesting statement only because we as Canadians do horrible things to our own dogs. Take a look at the dogs at Mile 26. Look at our shelters and pounds that are packed with animals dogs and cats that are going to be killed. Look at the petstores filled to the rafters and our government here in Canada do absolutely nothing to stop this sickness. And why...because it boils down to money, which is just flippen SICK.

What are Canadians doing to stop our own shortcomings? Why are we worried about those animals in another country when we cannot even preach to our own people.
It's a very solid point BM. In the end it comes down to education and I'm not at all convinced we can do anything to get religious Iranians to accept our point of view over the Cleric's.

I realize that any injustice to beloved dogs worldwide hurts the many pet lovers that visit our board....but really what can we practically do to help out Iranian dogs?

It's sad that it's that way, but I think our efforts are better spent tactfully educating westerners that come to our board. one by one.
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  #58  
Old June 21st, 2010, 02:02 PM
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I agree with your last statement Marko. We need to take care of our own before we take care of others. Sorry to say that we cannot compete at all with religion. If this is their belief, then this is it. We can disagree but then again they disagree with ours as well. I can tell you that no one from another country is going to tell me that my dogs are not worthy to share the same space. Let them try. And - I am sure they feel the same way.

We as Canadians have alot to learn. We are definately not ahead of our time either. We are just as neglectful and irresponsible as the next. Infact I would go alittle further and say we are worse as we are money oriented and our government is run by the coin. Our pitbulls are banned, gassing still happens as well as electrocutions of unwanted pets, our millers are ALLOWED to bring their falling apart, over produced dogs to a shelter without recourse even though there are HORRIBLE signs of neglect and abuse...and we do nothing. Marko - you know this for a fact as you see this first hand. I personally am totally in disagreement and appauled by this as now this is my problem in trying to find refuge for those that are rejected for adoption.

I may be slightly off course with this thread but I just want to point out that we have no right to dictate to other countries when our own is nothing but a piece of crap where animal welfare is concerned.
  #59  
Old June 21st, 2010, 02:07 PM
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marko marko is offline
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Amen sista!
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  #60  
Old June 21st, 2010, 02:18 PM
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mikischo mikischo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
We as Canadians have alot to learn. We are definately not ahead of our time either. We are just as neglectful and irresponsible as the next. Infact I would go alittle further and say we are worse as we are money oriented and our government is run by the coin. Our pitbulls are banned, gassing still happens as well as electrocutions of unwanted pets, our millers are ALLOWED to bring their falling apart, over produced dogs to a shelter without recourse even though there are HORRIBLE signs of neglect and abuse...and we do nothing. Marko - you know this for a fact as you see this first hand. I personally am totally in disagreement and appauled by this as now this is my problem in trying to find refuge for those that are rejected for adoption.

I may be slightly off course with this thread but I just want to point out that we have no right to dictate to other countries when our own is nothing but a piece of crap where animal welfare is concerned.
Again very well said, BenMax and I don't think you are off course at all.
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