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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:24 PM
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Captured Whale

A five-tonne orca named Tillikum "Tilly" was captured in 1983 off the coast of Iceland and lived for 9 yrs at Sealand BC then sold in 1992 to Seaworld Orlando as a stud after he killed a man in 1991. Then killed a trainer in 1999 and now another trainer yesterday.

How many people do you think you'd kill if you were forced to live in a bathtub for 27 years


SeaWorld 'killer whale' incident gives parents pause
The 'killer whale' accident at SeaWorld Orlando has some parents questioning the value of bringing children to zoos and animal parks
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society...-parents-pause

SeaWorld will keep whale despite trainer's death
Despite calls to free or destroy the animal, SeaWorld said Thursday it will keep the killer whale that drowned its trainer, but will suspend all orca shows while it decides whether to change the way handlers work with the behemoths
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100225/...dvcmxkd2lsbA--
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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:27 PM
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oh i know eh,,hmmm maybe letting him free would be a brilliant idea..just amazes me,,hmmm i wanna see a killer whale,,lets trap one and train it and keep him in captivity forever..where do humans get off.. good for you Tillikum...
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Old February 25th, 2010, 07:33 PM
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Take your kids on a whale watching tour to see the magnificence of nature at its finest.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:17 PM
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As sad as it is that this whale has lived in captivity for so long, I feel awful for the trainer who died. All life is precious and to lose one so tragically hurts my heart .
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:18 PM
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Captured Whale

Anyone know of a petition to free Tilly? All those places should be shut down, animals kept in confinement and forced to perform for our entertainment
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Old February 25th, 2010, 08:49 PM
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they announced tonight that they are going to continue working with this whale....why not...there are tons of people lined up to become trainers....whats a few more deaths?? As long as our kids see the pretty whales....whats that? its your kids bday??? sure..bring him/her down and let the whale give them a birthday kiss.............how many times have we seen that commercial where the whale "kisses" the kiddies at pool side........

my prayers are with the trainers family at this horrible time
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Old February 26th, 2010, 08:03 AM
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A tragedy for sure for the family of Dawn Brancheau who was a lifelong animal lover and realized her dream of working with marine animals. But they don't call orcas "Killer Whales" for nothing. They have a high prey drive and on occasion a person does look like a seal!
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Old February 26th, 2010, 08:27 AM
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I was just reading - they want to keep Tilly for breeding

I don't feel sorry for lives lost - these kind of trainers are not the victims the whales are. It's insulting and nauseating their dream job was to "teach" killer whales to perform circus tricks by withholding food & isolating them in pittiful small tanks it's abuse!

My sympathy goes out to every whale, dolphin et friends being exploited because of GREED by IGNORANCE. My voice and my opinion.

I haven't yet found a petition but Blackstone Group owns SeaWorld. Ask Stephen A Schwarzman, Chairman, CEO & Co-Founder to RETIRE AND FREE Tilly & the 7 others Orca's being held in their captivity http://ir.blackstone.com/contactus.cfm
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Old February 26th, 2010, 08:36 AM
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I dont like what is going on either, but there is no way they could release this whale. He has been raised in captivity most of his life and has been hand fed, he would die out in the wild. So its either use him despite what happen or put him to sleep, there the only 2 options they have.
I am really tired of the animals paying for human error.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 08:46 AM
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I feel terrible for the trainer, but I'm glad they will not destroy the whale. I'd read the sister of the trainer mentioned her sister would not want him destroyed.

Releasing this whale would likely mean death. He's been raised in captivity and likely would have no clue how to live in the ocean and feed itself or be around other whales. I don't think they should use him for breeding and I don't think they should "train" with him anymore. He's been tied to 2 other deaths
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Old February 26th, 2010, 08:52 AM
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Willy was freed? Another option maybe a sanctuary where he could learn how to survive on his own he certainly has earned at the very least his freedom to try.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 09:39 AM
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I just ran across this article. I thought it was interesting, and sad.

Killer Whales: What to do with captive orcas

It brings up the case of Keiko, "Willy"

Quote:
Captured in 1979 as a near two-year-old calf, Keiko found fame as the star of the 1993 family film Free Willy, after which public pressure grew to release him back to the wild.
Keiko the killer whale
Keiko at the Oregon Coast Aquarium in Newport in 1998

Training for his reintroduction began in 1996, and after 2000 his trainers began taking him out into the sea on open ocean swims designed to prepare him for a wild life.

But Keiko rarely interacted with wild orcas, and never integrated into a wild pod.

He also struggled to learn how to hunt, making shallower and less frequent dives than wild whales.

Eventually, and despite the best efforts of his trainers, he could not break his need for human contact, and kept following or returning to the trainers' boat.

Keiko eventually died, still semi-captive in 2003.

"The release of Keiko demonstrated that release of long-term captive animals is especially challenging and while we as humans might find it appealing to free a long-term captive animal, the survival and well being of the animal may be severely impacted in doing so," the report's authors write.
When it comes down to it, leave them in the wilderness. If we want to educate people, there are different ways to do so without taking these animals and parading them for our entertainment by doing something that is not natural to them.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 11:51 AM
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I don't think releasing him to the wild would be an option, since the only thing he would porbably be able to "catch" to eat would be humans, so he would be killed for sure in the wild.

He sould be retired to a large retirement enclosure...preferably a sectioned off area in it's natural habitat.

It's so sad, they weren't meant to "preform" for our entertainment nor were they meant to be kept in tanks!!
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Old February 26th, 2010, 11:58 AM
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Agree Happycats and until we as a whole find another way to entertain ourselves and our children other then pay these places to exploit them it will continue.

The price we pay for caging whales ~ Martha Holmes ~ Marine Biologist and wildlife film maker
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ging-them.html
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Old February 26th, 2010, 12:00 PM
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It is very sad indeed. . I hope that they find this whale safe haven.

But sad also for the trainer and the family. I don't know how anyone could not feel some human emotions for this tragedy.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 12:34 PM
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this just in from CNN
-- SeaWorld to resume shows with killer whales Saturday, but trainers won't get into the water with the animals.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 12:46 PM
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I feel terrible for the trainer and her family. They have my deepest condolences for their loss. The trainer died doing what she loved.

Most of us humans have had drastic changes of heart over the captivity of whales in the past 30 years. We know that releasing a captive whale into the wild is very rarely successful for the whale itself. (Hello!! Don't we bash people who ditch their cats or dogs to fend for themselves??)

I honestly, in my gut, believe that a large amount of the compassion society now has for these animals and our overwhelming desire to see them free stems from the fact we have seen them in captivity and how discontented we are with that. So sadly these whales have forfeited their freedom for the greater good maybe. Now as long as these whales are in captivity somebody has to care enough for them to work with them and keep their brains engaged. It may not be what they would do in the wild, but it's not entirely cruel.

With any luck we will live in a world one day where all wild animals are free. I believe that an injured animal that can't be rehabilitated into the wild should be kept in captivity, but only if all other options have been exhausted.

I don't approve of the breeding programs so that you can rear your own captive whales. No better than catching them as far as I'm concerned.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 06:44 PM
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Captured Whale

What gives the human race the right to capture wild creatures and hold them captive for the duration of their lives, what also gives these humans the right to exploit these creatures for monetary gain and human amusement. The trainer knew the risks involved, especially with this whale but she had to fulfill some misconception that she could master and control such a huge creature and where was her compassion when subjecting this whale to conform to the wishes/wiles of profiteering, side-show, idiots when he showed all the signs of frustration and stress and had been for years.
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Old February 26th, 2010, 11:55 PM
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Angry

I'm happy to see that many other people also feel the same way as I do about this issue. While I do feel very sorry for the trainer's family & friends, and my thoughts are with them, a tragedy like this just makes me want to scream "Well what the hell did you expect??"

Again, it goes back to the same point: these are wild animals! Study after study has shown that the incidence of aggression (if you can even call it that) in wild animals kept in captivity is quite common... and really, should this surprise anyone? These are animals that travel many, many miles in one day that are being kept in a fishbowl! This is a 14,000 LB ANIMAL... what the $%^& is he doing being kept in a fishbowl?! It would be comparable to a human being kept in a bathroom their entire life! Wouldn't you start to go a little crazy too? True, we can train them and perhaps somewhat domesticate them, but essentially they are lacking the physical and emotional stimulation in their "mock" environments.

And yes to be fair, I will say some zoos, aquariums and groups of the like really do try to mock the animal's natural environment, feeding patterns etc. and in all fairness, some of the world's most incredible species would likely be extincit if it wasn't for zoos & some of their breeding programs, STILL I think it is time that we stand up for those that don't have a voice and demand that if these animals are to be kept in captivity, that certain standards must be met (i.e. physical space, feeding, social requirements etc.)

The same argument could be made for dogs... how many times do we hear of someone wanting to euthanize their dog because it bit their child? These are wild animals, and as such they have instincts and are not predictable at all times! Caution MUST be used all the time.

I am glad to hear that they are not putting him to sleep, but I still don't think being kept in captivity devoid of so many of their normal, natural surroundings is okay! But yes, releasing him into the wild at this point would be devestating... he has no survivial skills.

Arrrrgggghhh!
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Old February 27th, 2010, 03:54 AM
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are our own pets not captive. used for our entertainment?

i sympathize the circumstances.

supplicately, what is your opinion?
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Old February 27th, 2010, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t.pettet View Post
What gives the human race the right to capture wild creatures and hold them captive for the duration of their lives, what also gives these humans the right to exploit these creatures for monetary gain and human amusement. The trainer knew the risks involved, especially with this whale but she had to fulfill some misconception that she could master and control such a huge creature and where was her compassion when subjecting this whale to conform to the wishes/wiles of profiteering, side-show, idiots when he showed all the signs of frustration and stress and had been for years.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 06:42 AM
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I personally don't think there should ever have been a thought about killing the poor whale..I don't look at this situation any differently than a person abusing,whether physically or mentally another person..and the person being abused finely having enough and fighting back. Would you condemn that person for their actions? They could look into using the tank that was created in Mexico for the movie shoot of " Titanic" It is much larger than any tank these whales are used to now, it's actually a penned off section of the ocean. Retire these animals there to live out their lives.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenkinsdjtg View Post
are our own pets not captive. used for our entertainment?

i sympathize the circumstances.

supplicately, what is your opinion?
What an absurd comparison! There is a huge difference between a captive Orca and domesticated canine/felines, can we please stick to topic, thanks.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:29 AM
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I read this morning that it was the trainers pony-tail that attracted the whale,the presumption is,the whale probably thought the pony-tail was a new toy.
With the trainer in the water,her pony-tail was floating on the surface.
I too feel for the family and the horror this woman must have experienced,she loved these animals.
I am certain,she like us,would have preferred to see them wild,in the oceans.
However since they are captive,I am certain she did what she could to help these massive,beautiful creatures.
I do not condone capturing wild animals for our enjoyment,nor do I find any pleasure in going to Zoo's.
I believe certain breeding-programs of endangered animals is important,since us evil humans are destroying their habitat.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:37 AM
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Tilly has sired 17 calves, some of which have not survived, IMO the lucky ones.
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslan View Post
I personally don't think there should ever have been a thought about killing the poor whale..I don't look at this situation any differently than a person abusing,whether physically or mentally another person..and the person being abused finely having enough and fighting back. Would you condemn that person for their actions? They could look into using the tank that was created in Mexico for the movie shoot of " Titanic" It is much larger than any tank these whales are used to now, it's actually a penned off section of the ocean. Retire these animals there to live out their lives.
Exactly. There is also two huge coastal sactuaries that was created for marine life in Brazil & Chile. Millions & millions was profited from these aquatic shows therefore they should pay to relocate, rehabilitate and monitor him for the remaining of his life. He was born free and should be allowed to die free, but no the show must go on
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
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IMO the lucky ones.
I dont think anything misses what they never had IMO.. The calves wouldnt know what its like to be free in the ocean and would look at the tank as their home the place they feel safe.

Sure they still have instincts, but so do JRTS, yorkshire terriers, hound dogs, german shepherds, ETC ETC, and they deal with being indoor pets with no job.. Really doesnt seem much different to me..

That said I would NEVER condone taking an animal, especially a whale, from its enviroment and sticking it inside some tank leaving it probably looking for a way out and back to its family... But I personally dont feel too bad for the ones born in captivity.

Sucks about the trainer. Ive never been to a zoo/ marine world.. Dont really see the big attraction. :/
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Old February 27th, 2010, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Dancer View Post
The trainer died doing what she loved.
I believe that too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Dancer View Post
Most of us humans have had drastic changes of heart over the captivity of whales in the past 30 years. We know that releasing a captive whale into the wild is very rarely successful for the whale itself. (Hello!! Don't we bash people who ditch their cats or dogs to fend for themselves??)

I honestly, in my gut, believe that a large amount of the compassion society now has for these animals and our overwhelming desire to see them free stems from the fact we have seen them in captivity and how discontented we are with that. So sadly these whales have forfeited their freedom for the greater good maybe. Now as long as these whales are in captivity somebody has to care enough for them to work with them and keep their brains engaged. It may not be what they would do in the wild, but it's not entirely cruel.
Makes me think of the animals we choose to keep as companions. In addition, the study of marine mammals has taught us a great deal about behavior in both animals of all kinds including humans. The research and training of Karen Pryor at Sea Life Park in Oahu is what brought us the science of clicker training, a more humane way to teach/train/communicate with many species of animals including dogs...and humans too (eg TAGteach for children with autism).

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
I read this morning that it was the trainers pony-tail that attracted the whale,the presumption is,the whale probably thought the pony-tail was a new toy.
With the trainer in the water,her pony-tail was floating on the surface.
I too feel for the family and the horror this woman must have experienced,she loved these animals.
I am certain,she like us,would have preferred to see them wild,in the oceans.
However since they are captive,I am certain she did what she could to help these massive,beautiful creatures....
That was my understanding of this tragic accident as well. Tillikum's actions were consistent with playing, not with anger.
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Old February 28th, 2010, 01:41 PM
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That was my understanding of this tragic accident as well. Tillikum's actions were consistent with playing, not with anger.
You wouldn't catch me playing with a 5 tonne Dolphin.
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Old March 1st, 2010, 06:30 AM
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this will all be discussed on Larry King live tonight on CNN
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