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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:31 AM
2goldenpups 2goldenpups is offline
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2 puppies littermates

Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:47 AM
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don't beleive everything you read on the internet, my best friend adopted two goldens from the same litter about 4 yrs ago and never had any problems, they kept each other company, slept together and are inseperable, have fun and enjoy your new babies
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:51 AM
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Never heard of such a thing
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Old February 9th, 2010, 07:40 AM
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Litter mates are certainly very active as are all puppies. The only thing I have found is that they are very independent when they have each other and training is definitely more challenging. Littermates can be a challenge but so much fun...they grow up fast!
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Old February 9th, 2010, 09:42 AM
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Are you familiar with dog play, particularly young pups? I cannot imagine any aggression between 8 week old puppy litter mates. Yes, they nip and bite each other, but this is how they teach each other what is okay and what is too much. It is important for them to learn these skills.

Have you spoken with your breeder about these concerns?
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:03 AM
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On a nice day, go to a dog park (without your puppies) and watch the dogs. You will see many dogs playing rough. They stand on their hind legs and wrestle, make play snarls and bites, that cover each other in slobber, but do no real damage. This is the kind of play your puppies are doing at 8 weeks and it is very important. When they play with a littermate, or other dog and bite too hard, they learn by the other dogs' reaction how to control the strength fo their bite and what is acceptable and what is not.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:25 AM
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My Lodi and Laci were from the same litter and never had any more problems than any other dogs raised together. They were extremely close and I think Laci has a bit of depression since Lodi died in November. They loved each other very much. I kind of think of the internet like the Enquirer - don't believe everything you read.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:35 AM
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We have personal experience with litter mates and were told those horror stories e.g. they will never really bond with you, they will ignore you, etc, etc,

We never set out to get 2 puppies however, when we got to the breeder (?%$$??- read puppy mill), she had 2 left and both in real bad shape. They were 10 weeks old and sometimes really played roughly, and we felt that we had to protect the female. Well guess who the bully is now... yep Cleo. They each have their personality Buddy being just endearing and a cool little dude and Cleo being the little buffon. We even had to remove their collar and tags (Buddy nearly choked on it once) cause he would grab Cleo by the collar and shake her.

What Ownedbycats said in her post is exactly what happens with our 2. Buddy is extremely protective of his sister and they have bonded with us but whenever we are not sitting with them, Cleo just cuddles up to her brother. I have never heard either yelp in pain and sometimes their play can get a little rough. That is what Cleo is missing since Buddy has been diagnosed with diabetes and not as playful as he used to be.

Training was sometimes a bit of a challenge especially when Cleo had hip surgery and had to be crated a lot for a period of one year to prevent Buddy from playing and running after her. Then Buddy was sick for a while and although not crated regularly, he needed more attention but Cleo would go over and lick his ear regularly.

It is a joy to watch them play together, keep each other company and watch over each other. They are fun and just plain adorable.... of course, we are not biaised

They are now 9 1/2 years old and we never regretted taking 2 dogs.

Good luck
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Old February 9th, 2010, 10:50 AM
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We sort of have two sisters, by that I mean they are sisters but only live together for 6mts of the year. My bosses have one and we have the other, I work at a seasonal resort, hence the six months they are togther.

Anyway they do play rough with each other but as they get older they get a little less rough. Still may seem rough and sometimes scary to us but it's the way dogs play. If one gets a little to rough the other would yelp and the play would freeze for a moment. Until they decided everything was ok and then back to playing. They at times looked like they wanted to rip each other apart when they played, like yanking on each others ears, grabbing any loose skin and shaking etc... but they really were just playing. Again if the other had enough or yelped they would stop on their own. They never once hurt one another, no scratch, or injuries of any kind. If they played to rough in the house we'd break it up, as that kind of play inside was not allowed...something was bound to get broken.

I use to work at a vet clinic so I was always doing a nightly check on them just to be sure.

They definately kept each other entertained and were there for each other if one got into trouble. I also think they kept each other out of trouble. When they first arrived on the island they could fit under the cabins but as they grew they didn't fit so well. Well one day one got stuck and could make it out and panicked, well her sister came and got one of us to let us know. They also sort of taught each other to swim. One wasn't to sure about going in the water farther than a foot from shore and the other was a swimming fool. Well the swimming fool would wade out and swim around and bark, be goofy and eventualy encouraged her sister to give it a try and well now she loves to swim to.

Training is harder so we had to separate them now and then to work with them individualy and then slowly did small training sessions with them at the same time. When they understood the comands on their own we then brought them together.

Having the two of them together was great fun, just watching them and seeing what they learned from one another and of course sitting and watching them nap together was too cute.

It sure will be quite the reunion this spring when we all get together again. Whenever my pup(Autumn) sees another dog on a walk that looks like her sister she gets very excited and cannot take her eyes off the other dog, so I know she remembers.

Anyway just my experience with two sister pups from the same litter. Don't give up just yet they are still very young and there is soo much for them to learn and they do learn from one another.

On a side note we also have two cats, and my bosses have two cats. Mine stay in our cabin and the bosses have free roam of the island. It didn't take long for the pups to understand that the cats were not play things. We had to teach them they were not to chase them and to give them their space and the cats certainly helped reinforce that. From time to time they still wanted to play with the cats, mostly by yipping at them and taking a play bow stance, but they learned what "leave it" means. My dog is left home alone with our cats all the time and she's fine. Also with kids they both seemed to know on thier own that they had to be more gentle with them, we still needed to teach them but they did not play or try to play as rough with them as they did with one another.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 12:06 PM
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My grrrrls, Bridie and Ceili are littermate sisters whom I have had since they were about 4 1/2 weeks old . They are now 10.

It may seem as if they want to kill each other during play but you will soon be able to tell the difference between "I'm-a-big-bad-doggy-and-I'm-gonna-get-you" play snarly and the "Back-off Sis, you are getting on my nerves" warning snarly and the "Okay, you pushed me one too many times" anger snarly.

Training was definitely more challenging and more time consuming. One of the grrrrls (interestingly the smaller of the two) is definitely her sisters protector ~ there are pros and cons to that of course. Bridie (the protector) will also chastise Ceili if Ceili is having a selective hearing moment.

Great advice given so far.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 03:57 PM
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I completely understand where you're coming from. My siberian huskies are littermates and they're now a year and a half old.
The day after I brought them home, I read all those same stories on the internet (probably the same sites you're reading) and I was horrified They basically said how raising 2 pups at the same time was the worst thing I could ever do and I should get rid of one ASAP.

Well, they were dead wrong. My boys are best friends, completely inseparable. Even now, at 18 months old, they still like to cuddle up to each other when they sleep - I hope they never grow out of that.
They're also very bonded to my husband and I, and we couldn't imagine our lives without them.

The thing to remember is, even though they have each other, it's still just as important to socialize them with other dogs. I also find that my boys play much more rough with each other, than they ever do with their other doggy friends - I think it's a sibling thing.

As for training, I found it was easiest to do it separately. My husband would take one outside and I'd work with one inside. Otherwise, I found it was too confusing for them when teaching commands like sit and down because evidentally, one would do, one wouldn't, but they still thought the praise was for them. It's also harder to teach them their names if they're always together.

That being said, it's always been a nice little break for me to let them go off and entertain each other for a while.

Just remember, at this age, they'r still learning from each other what's acceptable play and what's not. If one of them gets too rough, the other will give a little yelp to let her know. But if at any point they're getting too rough for your comfort, you can just grab them each by the scruff (gently, as their mother would have done) and separate them. Make them sit and wait until they calm down. They'll learn quicker than you think.

Good luck with your new little bundles!
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2goldenpups View Post
Over the weekend I bought 2 golden retrieves from the same litter. The puppies play very agressively. Upon googling raising 2 puppies I was met with horror stories about adopting from the same litter. I have 2 8 wk old girls.

Does anyone have experience with litter mates?

Also in our home is 4 cats and 2 children one 8 one 15.

I am considering re-homing a pup
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:43 PM
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Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.
I TOTALLY disagree. I never had any problems with Lodi and Laci as littermates. They were each other's best friends til the very end and bonded with me and my (ex)husband also.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:45 PM
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Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.
I think, in order to be helpful to the OP, it would be nice to back up these very strong statements with some evidence, as the others have (even if it's anecdotal). Do you have studies to prove this? Or anecdotal evidence of your own?
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Old February 9th, 2010, 06:55 PM
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I think two littermates is a big job but can be done if you have the dedication and lifestyle. If you are away for long days then perhaps you won't have the necessary time to dedicate. It would also probably help if you are an experienced dog owner. Here is an excellent blog of someone who raised two labrador littermates. Not many recent posts but some excellent information if you dig farther back http://the-sunshinegirl.blogspot.com/.

If you do keep both pups then be sure to crate train them in seperate crates and to do lots of one-on-one work with each dog so that they don't become super focused only on each other. Retrievers are naturally social dogs which is probably helpful in your case as they will be interested in interacting with family.

Good luck .
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Old February 9th, 2010, 07:44 PM
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Just a question and I'm not trying to be rude, but did you not do any research on raising 2 pups/littermates before you bought them?

My niece is raising two littermates(brother/sister husky mix). They are 17 months now. She has not had any issues with them what so ever. They are great with everyone and not overly clingy.

My sister adopted 2 littermates(Husky) again no issues. And they are 12 years old now and loving the farm life.

I raised 2 -3month old GSDs. They were not from the same litter. I put in a lot of time and effort in training. And since I was doing the initial basic training for one(police work) there was no time for error in training. My training was with them together and also one on one. And at times with the one on one, I would still have the other with me. I actually found this easy. And I always used their name with every command. It's all about time and patience. And if you don't have that, then that is when problems happen. To me it was all worth it in the end...
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Old February 9th, 2010, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Beauceron View Post
Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.
Sarcasm is ok I guess but it's usually helpful if people know it's sarcasm. And given that you're fairly new here you might want to wait until folks get to know you before you lay it on so thickly, add smilie faces and use it in a more appropriate context.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 09:12 PM
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A friend of mine has two littermates (lab/rottie mixes), who are now a year old. They had some issues at the beginning, which subsided when they stopped kenneling them together for longer periods in an outdoors kennelled area, and instead crated them separately in the same area. The separate kenneling and alternating individual training and 'team' training created a wonderful set of dogs.
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Old February 9th, 2010, 11:29 PM
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No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 01:28 AM
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And where is your evidence to support your statements, Beauceron? I think I speak for most of us on here when I say that we are trying to provide real and accurate help and advice to others on here, and in order to do that you need to have some evidence to back up your statements. Simply stating something as strongly as you have with nothing to back you up, completely ruins your credibility and will likely make most people doubtful of what you do have to say.

Let's give the OP some honest and helpful advice here. Why do you think getting two littermates is a bad idea? Have you had a bad personal experience if so what went wrong and why? What did you do to help the situation?

Besides that we are overlooking that the OP has already bought the two pups. Giving one up is certainly not the best idea after the fact, let's be productive and constructive here.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 06:19 AM
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I agree with crating them separately from each other. During the first week that my littermates were home, we had them in the same crate, as kind of a transition period. Then we moved them into separate crates, but still side by side in the same room.
As much as they will naturally have a great bond to each other, it's also important that they're ok to be separated for periods of time.
For example, what if one of them has to stay over night at the vets, and one doesn't?
It just generally helps them to become more rounded individuals IMO
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Old February 10th, 2010, 06:53 AM
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No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.

hope you never have twins *LOL*
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Old February 10th, 2010, 06:54 AM
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As others here have already stated, i know of 3 members on here that have siblings and i can think of 4 of my neighbours withing a couple houses that have a sibling pair also..If the breeder I got Qman from didn't already have all of hers spoken for i would have loved to take his little sister too. Any dogs i know that are siblings were taught the exact same way you would teach two non-sibling puppies...I wouldn't crate two non-siblings together anymore than i would two siblings.

Beauceron,,just because YOU state something as fact doesn't mean it is so. Several members have experience with siblings and some have stated so in here. Where as you voice your opinion, and that is all it is unless backed up with solid evidence. Unless you have raised siblings, know of several dozen people who have and had problems,,where exactly do you get your information from that makes all of us with experience wrong. Apparantly we're something special that we managed to pull off something that the majority can't....yay for us good going guys.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 12:52 PM
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Yes, Please rehome one of the pups. Raising littermates is a horrible idea, these few stories should not convince you. They are the exception to the rule.
How can you make such a statement without knowing anything more than you do about the OP and their situation? You don't know anything about them, their experience, the amount of time and training they are willing to invest (or not) in their pups. Raising two puppies is definitely not something that everyone is able to do well, however it is not that unusual and the stories already posted here are not what I'd call "exceptions". Even if the OP has not raised 2 puppies before, or even one, if they are willing to take the right steps and educate themselves about how to successfully do so there would be no need to rehome a pup. Yes it will take time and effort, but even one pup requires and deserves that.

Myself, I've raised littermates several times over and quite successfully (no exceptions, there was never a time it didn't work out for me). Years ago I had two rough collie sisters, later we had a brother and sister great dane, then two shelter puppies that may or may not have been brothers but were the same age and raised as brothers. Next up two border collie pups (gasp! the horror! two high-energy puppies at once! I must have been insane Not! They were great puppies and are great dogs) Besides the siblings I've also thrown single pups into the mix as well, and we currently have 9 dogs all residing happily together, siblings and otherwise. The rough collies passed away years ago, though I got another one collie since (Noah), as did the danes, but we still have the mixbreeds (Thunder and Flash), the sibling border collies (Rain and Storm) and all the other single pups (Lightning, Flurry, Dru and Blaze). When they run, play and wrestle there are times you'd swear they were going to tear each other to pieces they can play so rough, but it's all just the way they interact within the pack and nobody gets hurt. All the teeth and growling can look scary but they know where to draw the line. Even though they will show their teeth and use them in play, as puppies they learned about "bite inhibition" and not to bite hard.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Beauceron View Post
No sarcasm. Raising doubles is a terrible idea. Simply because a few people have been lucky is no reason to do it.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt rather than thinking you are a... troublemaker.

As you are unable to provide any meaningful information and quite obviously know nothing about dogs and likely animals in general, perhaps you could find a more useful way to spend your bandwidth and leave those of us who DO know something about animals to have an intelligent discussion.

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Old February 10th, 2010, 03:22 PM
Beauceron Beauceron is offline
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Besides that we are overlooking that the OP has already bought the two pups. Giving one up is certainly not the best idea after the fact, let's be productive and constructive here.
Seems you've already decided. Can you tell me why giving one up is not the best idea. On raising littermates you will find general agreements whether its from an old time jerk and yank trainer of a progressive reward based trainer that raising littermates is a bad idea. There is a reason why in the OP, the author mentions all the horror stories on the net. It's because they are true.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 03:27 PM
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Raising littermates, is absolutley no different than raising two puppies from completley different litters.

IMO, you can find ANY horror story backing ANY concern over the internet.

It has nothing to do with the fact that they are from the SAME LITTER.

Problems arise because often families don't realize the intense responsibility and energy that goes into raising ONE puppy, let alone two.

It's double the work, period. Combine that with a pup's energy and high distraction levels, and you have your work cut out for you.

This doesn't mean in any way that two puppies from the same litter (or different) should not be raised together, or it should be avoided. It can be a great experience, as long as the entire family is ready to take on such a roll.
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  #28  
Old February 10th, 2010, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Beauceron View Post
Seems you've already decided. Can you tell me why giving one up is not the best idea. On raising littermates you will find general agreements whether its from an old time jerk and yank trainer of a progressive reward based trainer that raising littermates is a bad idea. There is a reason why in the OP, the author mentions all the horror stories on the net. It's because they are true.
Since you are the only person taking a firm stance against this and the rest of us, who have experience with multiple dog households, including littermates, are of a different opinion I think it is up to you to back up your opinion with verifiable facts Beauceron, not the other way around.

So, the ball is in your court. Prove me wrong.
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Old February 10th, 2010, 03:37 PM
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A personal attack. The first recourse of the intellectually deficient.
I called you a troublemaker Beauceron.

The definition of a troublemaker is one who deliberately stirs up trouble.

The tone of your posts and the content, or rather the LACK of content in your posts meets the definition quite nicely.

Unless of course you would prefer "troll".

Now as I said in my previous post, put up or ...you can fill in the blanks, I'm feeling intellectually deficient at the moment.
  #30  
Old February 10th, 2010, 03:39 PM
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Bailey_ Bailey_ is offline
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
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Quote:
Since you are the only person taking a firm stance against this and the rest of us, who have experience with multiple dog households, including littermates, are of a different opinion I think it is up to you to back up your opinion with verifiable facts Beauceron, not the other way around.

So, the ball is in your court. Prove me wrong.
Beauceron has a point.

We need to remember that many families adopt "littermates" because they are under the impression that the dog will grow up with a great friend and many families do not understand the full responsibility of such a task. This can be extremley detrimental to the dogs future. ESPECIALLY if the entire family is a) not an experienced dog home, or b) not on board to train both dogs individually as required in this situation.

There are MANY reasons why adopting two puppies should be taken into careful consideration. If it's not, it can lead to serious problems and concerns like what the OP is dealing with.

And I may get burned for saying this, but I stand by my comment when I say that I would much rather an adaptable puppy be rehomed - than an older dog with serious behavioral/training issues who may get bumped around from home to home to home in the future, all because of lack of education.
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"If you are a dog and your owner suggests that you wear a sweater. . . suggest that he wear a tail."

Bailey (Labradoodle)
Tippy (Collie/ShepX)
Vali (American Bulldog)
Artiro (Cane Corso)
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