Puppy growling to just my daughter

[splittie65]

We have a Border Collie bitch that is nearlly 4 months old that we have had since she was 12 weeks old.

She is very docile and very freindly to everyone we meet, however......

Occasionally she growls at my 11year old daughter for no apparent reason.

Today it happened when she came home from school and went to say hello. And again later when she went to her. This seems odd as after me she spends more time happily playing with her and sleeping on her lap!

My daughter also helps with the training and gives her treats, and everything is fine.

I assume it is a dominance issue starting to raise its head?

[Bailey_]

This seems odd as after me she spends more time happily playing with her and sleeping on her lap!

While cute, both of these things if not done properly can send your dog mixed signals.

It does sound like your puppy is starting to exhibit dominance over your daughter, which can be easily corrected. Children in families can easily be pushed to the bottom of the totem pole in a dogs mind because they often unknowingly exhibit submissive behavior around dogs. (Rolling around on the floor, allowing the dog to take toys even while during play, etc.)

Correct any growling. Ensure your daughter understands that SHE needs to instigate affection and playtime with puppy - not the other way around.

[luckypenny]

Hello splittie65, welcome to pets.ca .

Here's one article you'll find most invaluable when teaching your daughter and your puppy:

http://www.dogstardaily.com/files/DogsChildren.pdf

Please never correct your dog for growling...you don't ever want her to stop giving warning signals. http://www.doggonesafe.com/dog%20com...t%20the%20Kids (please take your time to read all all the articles on this site.)

Growling at the Kids

Never punish your dog for growling at your child. This may seem counter-intuitive and may even go against the advice of your dog trainer or dog trainers you have seen on TV. If your dog growls at your child he is sending a clear warning that he is very uncomfortable with the actions or proximity of the child. Be grateful that your dog chose to warn with a growl rather than going straight to a bite. If you punish the growling, you may inhibit the warning growl the next time and the dog may bite without growling first. Punishment or scolding will not make the dog feel better about the child, in fact he may even feel more anxious and be even more likely to bite in the future, especially if you are not there to control the situation. If your child cannot follow directions and/or has got into the habit of being rough with the dog, then the dog and child should be separated until the child has learned to treat the dog with kindness and respect. Seek the advice of a dog behaviour specialist who will use positive reinforcement to help teach the dog to change his attitude and to enjoy the company of the child. Do not assume that the dog will not bite because he hasn't yet. As dogs get older they can become less tolerant. As children get older the dog can become less tolerant of rough treatment. How tragic if your last memory of a faithful long time family member is of a bite to your child.

With the appropriate training, patience, and time, your daughter and puppy can grow to have the most wonderful trusting relationship .

[Bailey_]

Never punish your dog for growling at your child.

Yep, I've heard this one before. Lets be clear that "punishing" a puppy for behavior is very different than correcting and innterupting the growl with a sound of our own, or a vocal cue, or an innteruption with the leash, or a touch. Punishing a dog for growling implies that a phyiscal discipline has taken place (ie: swatting the dog, alpha rolling, etc.) which is never a good way to innterupt ANY unwanted behavior.

Having safe child and dog interaction is a two way street. A child needs to learn first how to properly play with a dog. If a dog bites a child - it is the parents fault first and foremost.

I will not allow my daughter to play with or handle any of our pets inappropriatley, and I think that is the first major step to controlling any unneccessary confusion among the pet and child in the home.

With that said, I will also not tolerate any dominance related growling in the home with children or guests, period. With all the dogs I've personally owned and worked with, I don't know any that stopped growling all together when that behavior was innterupted. If a dog is truly exhibiting dominance related behavior to the point of growling, this is extremely serious and should be addressed. It is much different than correcting a dog that is fearful, anxious, or growling as a result of being physically hurt due to bad health, etc.

When a dog begins an action, they have already achieved their goal. For example, for a dog that is not allowed to jump up on the couch and is caught in mid-jump, he manages to only get his front paws on the couch. The owner has innterupted the action, but the dog - in his mind - has already won. He has reached his goal. He was on the couch, he pushed past the 'leaders' boundaries, he got to do what he set out to do. Unless the behavior is stopped before the dog reaches the couch, it will continue.

The same goes for unwanted behavior - when we innterupt a growl, the growl has effectivley already taken place, which is the reason that innterupting the growl will never stop a dog in the future from growling.
The dog has managed to ellicit his warning - whether we innterupt the sound, or not. The thought that innterupting a growl will cause the dog to stop relying on its natural instinct to elicit a vocal cue whenever it's uncomfortable is simply not sound. We are not teaching the dog NEVER to growl, we are teaching the dog what is appropriate behavior and what is not.

In more serious cases, for older dogs or dogs that are also growling out of fear or insecurity around children or people, we need to remember that obedience training with our animals is essential. When we have a dog that has mastered a 'sit' command (which is a far less reactive stance than a stand), they are less likely to growl and progress to biting. There are great ways to innterupt the growling process, and it is essential to showing the dog that there are other ways to deal with it's insecurities than simply growling & biting.

Most of a dog’s behavior habits are formed from birth to 1 year of age. When you bring your new puppy home, it is important to get it accustomed to different sites and sounds. Slowly introduce it to the things in your household. If your puppy growls at an object or person, do not pick him up and cuddle him. This reaction will be rewarding to your puppy, and will intensify the dog's behavior. It will teach him that the appropriate reaction to fear is to growl. Growling can lead to biting. Rather the dog should be corrected, much like a mother dog would to their own puppy. Stern, firm, confident, and consistent.

Tell him "No," show him the object and let him know there is nothing to be afraid of. You may need to give him a touch that matches your dog's own intensity (mocking a mother dog). Puppies like to play. They chew on everything including your fingers and legs - sometimes with a playful growl. Do not confuse this normal, natural behavior with the defensive growl.

[BenMax]

I did not read everything but I will say that I personally would never tolerate my dog(s) growling at my child. Not ever.

I do not think that punishing the dog for growling is effective, but it is important to correct this before it escalates. When my dogs growl I usually use a load 'HEY' and point at them directly and they understand that what they did was not acceptable. I do not 'give treats' either as praise. In my world it's a given that this behaviour is unacceptable. They can growl when someone comes to the door, but it is not accepted when it comes to children. No how, no way.

That being said however, if a child steps on the dog and the dog growls, hey shiat happens. I think the dog is allowed to voice his opinion about being stepped on.

I agree Bailey on certain points but I do think that the goal is achieved for the dog if the dog is interrupted for any undesirable behaviour. It is not that far from their mind that they over stepped boundries.

Believe it or not I control my dogs with one 'pointing' finger. I do not have to touch them at all. All I do is point when something is not right, or if I want them to move, sit, go lie down or stop a growl. For some reason they get it. I do this with all my fosters, and to be honest it's been a real hit for potential adopters.

[splittie65]

Thanx, for all your opinions.....fairly varied, but food for thought.

The reason I believe it is a dominance issue is because she is not doing anything wrong or at an innappropriate time. If anyone else did the same thing there would be no reaction.

It only happens occassionaly, and most of the time they play happily together.

What I currently do is shout 'No!' and have told my daughter to just walk away.

I have now got my daughter to feed puppy most of her meals, and also to take the food bowl away (with a command so its not a shock) while eating to add more food. My puppy has no problem with this and readilly lets her.

I will see how things go with this.

Any more suggestions / comments welcome.

[Marcha]

Our youngest (8 years old) (I'll call him "Imp" here), has a harder time dealing with the rules around the dog than our oldest (10). Well, the youngest has a hard time with rules in general, and can be as pig-headed as our 6 month old, 74 lbs pup Bodhi. I think there's a reason that we've called our youngest "pup" as a nickname since birth. :haha For about a week, when Bo was about 4.5 months old, Bodhi would show dominance signs at Imp, among others barking at him to get Imp to do something (pick up a bone that had fallen, play with me, why are you leaving me, you can't leave me!, etc) and growling when whatever Imp did wasn't convenient for Bodhi.

Examples: Imp comes running out of the classroom after school and runs straight up to Bodhi. He ignores me entirely hugging and loving on Bodhi until Bodhi has run out of steam of enthusiasm.
The same in the morning, when the pup comes out of her crate. Imp will drop everything to greet Bo. After being away from the house, Imp rushes to find Bo, and hugs and kisses the pup, even though he's just rushed straight past me, his father, his brother, a friend...

What does that tell the pup? Bo thinks that Imp is acknowledging Bodhi as the leader - the leader is acknowledged first. Followers last. All eyes on the leader.

So the rules around the dog had to be tightened and made very clear.

Whatever happens, we acknowledge *people* first. Even when we see friends with their dogs, our kids must acknowledge the *people* first, no matter how insistent the dog is.

When our kids come into the room where the pup is, come running out of class, back home from a playdate... they *must* acknowledge the people first, regardless of how happy the pup is at seeing them again.

We ask the kids on a regular basis... when you do this, are you showing the dog you're a leader or a follower? The kids are starting to understand that there is no middle ground for dogs. You're either one or the other. Period.

We don't acknowledge Bodhi until she's calm. Hopping, jumping, crawling around... none of that gets ANY attention. Sit down, lie down, whatever... but it's got to be calm. We do not pet her when she's not calmly sitting or lying down.

We don't allow our children to take the pup out of her crate in the morning if the pup is whimpering. Of course the whimpering gets their attention, and they're antsing to greet the dog. It sounds like a duh thing, but it's hardest on the kids if the pup is whining to get out.

Also, our youngest needed to have an extra rule at after school greeting time: don't go to the dog - tell Bodhi to come to you after you've greeted the adults/ other people. When greeting her, stand at a yard distance or so, and tell her to come to you. Of course, during the day if Bodhi is lying down or sitting down, looking at what's going on, and Imp wants to approach the dog for a cuddle, that's fine and he can go to Bodhi whenever he wants. But in general: Imp needs to get Bodhi to come to *him*, not the other way around.

When he gives Bodhi food, he will eat something first. Whether he pretends to put Bodhi's food into his own mouth before lowering her bowl to the ground, or whether he gets himself some crackers or a sandwich... doesn't matter, as long as he eats FIRST, in front of Bodhi. Only when he's done, and Bodhi has performed a few actions (place, sit, stay, (put down dish), wait for a while, and the final 'go'), does she get food.


Imp will regularly not only give the food, but interupt the meal, take the meal away, have his hand in the bowl, touch Bodhi, and so forth. We all do that, but we made a point to double-check that our youngest also did that.

Imp is not allowed to play when Bodhi in any way tries to initiate a game. Imp only plays with Bodhi when Imp is ready to play. He's the leader, he determines when Bodhi plays. Since Imp enjoys playing with Bodhi as much as Bodhi enjoys playing with Imp, we're not asking Imp to ignore it all together. Say that Bodhi brings Imp her favourite toy, and starts tossing it at Imp (her favourite way of initiating a game). Imp needs to walk away, and do something else even if it's for an instant. Then he calls Bodhi toward him, and says "Bring it" while pointing at the toy. Bodhi then brings Imp the sock, drops it, and leaves it, while sitting at Luca's feet. THAT is when Bodhi gets to play. On Imp's terms, after listening nicely to a few commands. Nothing in life is free - everything that Bodhi gets is by the grace of us, and hard-earned (performing a few commands promptly).

The dog sits in the back of the car with the boys. This means that the boys leave the car BEFORE the dog does. The dog has to wait until the boys are out. And sometimes the dog stays IN the car.

It's little things like that combined that give the dog the firm understanding that the child is still a leader, and the dog is a follower.

Something you can do too, is physically step in front of your child if you feel the dog is dominating your daughter. That tells your dog you own your daughter, not the dog. You do not have to be angry or protective. Just calmly say "eh" or "hey", while pointing at the dog like BenMax suggest, or any other interuptive action that you're used to (as long as it's calm and firm, not angry or protective) and show your pup you own your daughter by 'claiming' her.

All that said, there are times when a dog can be startled and will growl. If a dog is sleeping in deep sleep, and he is suddenly touched or hugged, he might wake and growl as an instinctive reaction. They don't perceive it as a hug, but as an attack/play initiation. When the dog is sleeping, the boys are not allowed to suddenly touch the dog. They have to first call the dogs name or make a sound of some kind to get her attention, and make sure Bodhi is awake before they approach her physically.

We started seeing immediate improvements - within a day or two the situation seemed resolved. Because of our son's own impulsivity and umm - pig-headedness, we needed to make sure he internalized these rules and didn't let them slip so we are sticking with them until we see he's less impulsive and sure he sticks to them for now. With our oldest it took no more than a simple explanation of the rules - that's simply his personality. So how far you take it would depend entirely on your daughter's personality and your dog's personality combined.