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Old November 25th, 2009, 03:56 PM
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Cool H1N1 vaccines strange

I watch TV5 news from France with hubby and yesterday they said that in Canada we've had several hundreds of people with severe reactions to the vaccine
Isn't it weird that if this is the case,we have to hear it from France??

France bought 90 million vaccines,although there only is about 60 million people in France and very few people have chosen to go for it,here people were lining up for hours to get it

We did decide not to get vaccinated,we chose the regular flu-vaccine instead.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 04:58 PM
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There were some reactions due to something in one of the batches. Glaxo Smith Kline is investigating.

I personally don't do vaccines mainly because I know what they do to our pets .
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:08 PM
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One of the ingrediants is apparently eggs or from eggs??? We have chosen not to get it at this point. I have never had a flu shot either.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:32 PM
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I read yesterday that Glaxo Smith Kline has recalled a batch of H1N1 vaccine in Canada.

Personally, I think the H1N1 scare is all media hype. I have never had a flu shot and rarely get anything besides a cold. It has been probably 12 years since the last time I called into work because I was sick.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:44 PM
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i agree - huge media hype!
i heard on cnn this morning that the recalled batch was distributed to ontario
glad i opted to not get one - for the same reason as l4h!
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Old November 25th, 2009, 06:58 PM
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Considering the fact that the vaccine was tested on very few people and that the doctor who invented the shot, has stated that he wouldn't give it to his own wife or kids...I can see it now, in 20 years, it will be out that people who had the H1N1 shot in 2009/2010, now have health issue or worse cancer.

I agree it is the media. Look at Sars lol, that was a joke...however the WHO made it that NO ONE visited Canada for about a year.

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Old November 25th, 2009, 07:45 PM
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I've been sitting and waiting for H1N1 to get nuts and it never has. The boring flu killed 36,000 in 2008 and in the US we barely have something like 400 people die from H1N1 (give or take the last time I checked).

I looked at the ingredients and it has MSG which causes migraines. I suffer from them, so I'm not interested in causing a migraine. They last for days and are almost unbearable.

I haven't had a flu shot since I was little and have so far been ok. I don't see any reason to over-vaccinate when there doesn't seem to be a need.

Personally, I have issue with most of the vaccines we have now. Sure most of them do good things, but there is a problem when we are vaccinating our children so much. I forget how many they get before the age of 2, but it is over 20!! And we wonder why we have so many problems with ADHD, autism and such.

I agree that it is media hype how bad H1N1 is. We are bombarded with the commercials on Vegas. This gets back to my inherant mistrust of the government. Fear is the control of the masses.

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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:20 PM
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Take out the "Hundred" and you're about right. There have only been a few severe reactions to the H1N1 vaccine.
Both the H1N1 and Seasonal Flu Vaccines are made using eggs so people who are allergic shouldn't get the vaccination.
There has been a recall of one batch of the Vaccine by GSK and they're investigating what happened.
I'm planning on getting both shots. I prefer to err on the side of caution.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:22 PM
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i prefer to not put something in my body that a doctor can't recommend 100%. Having just recently gotten over H1N1 and being in the high risk catagory i can totally say it's definatley media hype. Another members here's wife also had it and is no worse for wear.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:29 PM
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I don't usually get the seasonal flu shot but I opted to get the h1n1. I wasn't going to but my DH has asthma and I work with several people who have health conditions, so I don't want to be a carrier to others (as well as contract it myself). We do have several confirmed severe cases in my community, so I figured it was a calculated risk. Didn't take the decision lately at all, I'm as skeptical as the next person... I hope I don't regret my decision.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:34 PM
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yup my turn is monday , have a premie for a grandson will do it for him
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:38 PM
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The way i see it, we have immune systems for a reason. I choose to let mine do what it is there for.
I was exposed to H1N1 3 times for certain and never got anything, if you're healthy , excercise, and eat well, there is no reason to worry about any flu.

I hate media hype.
On the ingredient topic, what about mercury, I mean we already get mercury from our foods (some of them) why would you want more in your body? Most vaccines are preserved by using thimerosal which contains mercury and h1n1 is one of them
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erykah1310 View Post
The way i see it, we have immune systems for a reason. I choose to let mine do what it is there for.
I was exposed to H1N1 3 times for certain and never got anything, if you're healthy , excercise, and eat well, there is no reason to worry about any flu.

My thoughts exactly. If you don't get your flu shot every year, there really isn't a reason to get the H1N1 shot this year... especially considering the fact that it is very new and not that well tested.

After pubicizing the deaths caused by H1N1, the news turned around and said they all had "underlying conditions" that complicated things. They scared the crap out of us and then said, "oh wait, it's not THAT bad... don't panic."

I think if the pros outweigh the cons for you, then get it. If you work in a school or around children for any reason, then get it... but only if the ingredients aren't harmful to you personally (such as MSG in my case). If you are in good health (not even great health... just not bad) and generally don't get the seasonal flu, I wouldn't worry about it.

I've just been spraying Lysol around the house. That's enough for me. No germies here!
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Old November 25th, 2009, 08:52 PM
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I plan on getting the shot this week.

There have been several cases in my area of young, healthy, fit, active people with no preexisting health conditions dying within two days of arriving at the hospital. Almost a third of all confirmed cases required hopitalisation. This is NOT a normal flu.

I have family members who work in health care. They're actually more scared about it than anything I've heard on the news...they see a lot, and they see how sick people are getting.

Are the odds pretty good that you WON'T die of it? Sure...but if YOU survive you can easily pass it on to someone else who might die.

The whole point of vaccines is not to save YOUR butt, it's to keep those around you safe.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 09:42 PM
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Boy, was I glad to see this thread! Although I still haven't made up my mind. I don't know what I fear more, the virus or the vaccine .
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Old November 26th, 2009, 12:20 AM
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I think the people who are elderly or in poor health should be the only ones that get these vaccines. I dont believe in getting vaccines if your healthy unless its something serious like polio or something like it.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 12:46 AM
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According to this article, which uses numbers collected from the CDC and JAMA, an average of 36,000 Americans die of the flu or complications from the flu every year. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2240054/posts)

The problem isn't whether or not you get the vaccine - the problem is that we have sanitized and sterilized ourselves and our surroundings to the point that catching a cold can be fatal. It is simply ridiculous! In order to build up an immunity to something, you have to be exposed. Exposure builds up antibodies which help fight off infection.

Quote:
The whole point of vaccines is not to save YOUR butt, it's to keep those around you safe.
That just has to be the craziest statement I have heard all week! That is like saying I don't get my dog his parvo shot to keep him from getting parvo but to keep my neighbors dog from getting it!
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Old November 26th, 2009, 04:31 AM
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chico, it was written up in our papers last week about the few reactions some people had, and also on cjoh news. I received my shot about 3 weeks ago for the sake of our grandson. I've never had a flu shot in my life.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erykah1310 View Post
The way i see it, we have immune systems for a reason. I choose to let mine do what it is there for.
I was exposed to H1N1 3 times for certain and never got anything, if you're healthy , excercise, and eat well, there is no reason to worry about any flu.

I hate media hype.
On the ingredient topic, what about mercury, I mean we already get mercury from our foods (some of them) why would you want more in your body? Most vaccines are preserved by using thimerosal which contains mercury and h1n1 is one of them


I totally agree, the onlything I can add is not smoke. I think that is one of the worse things to do to your body.

The people who have died or had severe cases without underlying medical conditions, I wonder who were smokers or lived with smokers and who did not eat proper diets, but junk food.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 06:57 AM
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From what I understand the only way to get the virus is by breathing it in, unlike the cold virus that can make you ill by touching the virus, then touching your eye, nose, or mouth.

Soooo, if you want to prevent the spread, step away from people when you are talking to them.

The healthy people who are dying quickly from it is ususally due to the virus speading to the heart.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 07:22 AM
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Lot's of opinions
We,since we are retired and not mingling too much with the general population,will not be getting the H1N1,if there is side-effects to anything,I usually get it..
Had the flu last year pretty bad(lost 10lb's),so we just got the regular flu-shot.
I too am strongly against putting anything medicinal in my body,if not absolutely necessary.

L4H,I don't usually disagree with you,but lets not blame smokers againpeople with underlying problems,such as heart,lung, ,kidneys,liver etc...are not ALL smokers or someone exposed to a smoker.
I would put the blame(if any) on our paranoid anti-bacterial society
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Old November 26th, 2009, 07:44 AM
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never having gotten the flu shot before so therefore not putting chemicals into my body is not an issue with me, I was used as a "tester" or "guinea pig" when I was a child of 8 yrs, I had TB and instead of being put in a sanitorium for two years flat on my back my parents opted to try an experimental drug, new to canada, besides a 40 pound weight gain in a two month period, it worked....so I'm willing to try anything *L* well at least once. My mom also took Thalidomide while she was pregnant with me and that was a terrible drug, *knock on wood* I was ok, well depending on who you ask, I have two sisters that told me it affected my brain *L*. I work with children who are school aged and with babies under 6 months old, so to protect my grandson and the children in my daycare I decided to get the shot. I have to add that I'm a smoker and have not had a bad cold or the flu in over 15 yrs, of course I walk 3-5 miles daily outside with Brina, wash my hands frequently, eat very well except for my chocolate habit and take my kids outside for play daily.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 09:14 AM
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I have never had the flu shot and don't think I ever will..And I have never had the flu..With me it's only a head cold.

Since there are many different strains of the flu, you get a shot but a new strain comes out. Well guess what, that shot you got will not protect you from the new one.

As for the H1N1..Won't get that shot either..I refuse to take anything(shots.meds) that hasn't been on the market for at least 4 years...That's just me.

I was reading lastweek that they tossed out 500 of the bottles. Something to do with they had to be used within 24 hours...Something that wasn't mentioned before.

As for the eating heathy and exercising..Well that won't stop something from happpening..My Aunts BIL never smoked, was a fitness freak, ate right, and didn't drink. And was healthy as a horse...Dies of a heart attack.

Quote:
L4H,I don't usually disagree with you,but lets not blame smokers againpeople with underlying problems,such as heart,lung, ,kidneys,liver etc...are not ALL smokers or someone exposed to a smoker.
I would put the blame(if any) on our paranoid anti-bacterial society
Soooo very true chico..And I am not agreeing cause I'm a smoker...My Mom, sister and brother all have heart issues..My mom never smoked and neither my sister...Yes my brother does(he also lost a kidney at 16)..Many times genetics plays a role.

Quote:
In order to build up an immunity to something, you have to be exposed. Exposure builds up antibodies which help fight off infection.
I agree with this..when you have little ones, doctors will say not to be such a clean freak with them..If they touch certain things, don't go running to clean their hands..This was even brought up by the pediatrition on the show The Doctors....
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Old November 26th, 2009, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
From what I understand the only way to get the virus is by breathing it in, unlike the cold virus that can make you ill by touching the virus, then touching your eye, nose, or mouth.
sorry, that's incorrect. This virus is spread through contact with any mucous membrane, be it in the eyes, mouth or nose. It can be inhaled or put there via contact with a contaminated surface, like your own hand.

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Originally Posted by edwina View Post
I think the people who are elderly or in poor health should be the only ones that get these vaccines. I dont believe in getting vaccines if your healthy unless its something serious like polio or something like it.
Hm. The flu (whether the "normal" seasonal flu or the H1N1) kills people. Granted, not by the millions, but it kills people. Seems serious to me. I bet all the healthy people who died wished they got the shot or that those around them had gotten the shot. And the problem is that the really sick people CAN'T get the shot...so they remain at risk unless we protect them by getting inoculated ourselves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post

That just has to be the craziest statement I have heard all week! That is like saying I don't get my dog his parvo shot to keep him from getting parvo but to keep my neighbors dog from getting it!
It's called "herd immunity". If a significant proportion of a population is immune, the unvaccinated portion is protected. It slows the spread of disease and protects those who CAN'T be immunized to to a preexisting condition (like immune disease etc.). I personally don't want to be responsible for potentially killing someone who is immune-compromised (or heck, someone who is healthy for that matter) just because I think getting the flu isn't that big a deal for ME.

And as for developing immunity, a bunch of you said it already: you can't develop immunity unless you've been exposed. A vaccine does just that, only under a controlled situation with dead virus. For some people, getting exposed "naturally" is going to mean their death. Don't get me wrong, I am the LAST person to use anti-bacterial ANYthing, I don't give germs/whatever a second thought 99% of the time, and I totally agree that for the most part the world is ridiculously germ-phobic and that we ARE contributing to weak immune development in children by putting them in a bubble. But your body doesn't just build up generic antibodies that fight off any ol' thing that sneaks into your body...antibodies are very specificly formed in response to each specific virus, or at least to those which are extremely similiar structurally (for example, this is why people who are over 50+ might have some immunity to the current H1N1 strain; because they were exposed to a similar swine flu virus decades ago).


but we're talking about something that kills people...but is totally preventable.

I just don't get it.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 10:05 AM
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I'm not very proud that I smoke and respect that's it's disgusting but it annoys me when people who make comments about it. The same ones' drive their cars polluting away or don't recycle, use plastic bags/bottled water - I can go on but that's a whole other topic ...

I've never received a flu shot nor ever will, same for the H1 shot

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post
The problem isn't whether or not you get the vaccine - the problem is that we have sanitized and sterilized ourselves and our surroundings to the point that catching a cold can be fatal. It is simply ridiculous! In order to build up an immunity to something, you have to be exposed. Exposure builds up antibodies which help fight off infection
Although I too use the hand sanitizer constantly, agree!
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Old November 26th, 2009, 10:18 AM
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I'm not pro or anti vaccine. I really feel people should weigh the risk factors.

For instance, the last vaccination I've had since my original kid vaccines was for Rabies. I weighed the pros and cons, and clearly getting the vaccine was in my best interest. I am always exposed to animals, especially feral cats. After having already been bitten once, it was of course in my best interest to get the vaccine before I die of rabies

But I have no intentions of getting any flu vaccines, H1N1 or otherwise. Regardless of if I get the vaccine I am sure I will eventually get the flu. I am ALWAYS sick and frankly I would rather deal with a few days of the flu then inject myself with some vaccine that has barely been tested.

I just think people need to chill out with the vaccines. Doctors are getting so pushy with vaccines for EVERYTHING. Being a young female I've been bombarded beyond belief with the Gardasil vaccine. I wonder how much these doctors have to get paid that I can't even go to the doc for a stomach ache without having being told about the vaccine or having pamphlets all over the place.



So overall I'm not willing to get upset over something called 'swine flu' I'm sure I'll live even if I get it.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post


Hm. The flu (whether the "normal" seasonal flu or the H1N1) kills people. Granted, not by the millions, but it kills people. Seems serious to me. I bet all the healthy people who died wished they got the shot or that those around them had gotten the shot. And the problem is that the really sick people CAN'T get the shot...so they remain at risk unless we protect them by getting inoculated ourselves.



but we're talking about something that kills people...but is totally preventable.

I just don't get it.
Getting hit by a bus is pretty serious too and I am guessing that someone who gets hit and killed by a bus is wishing they hadn't stepped off the sidewalk.

I don't mean to infer that the flu is not serious to some people. What I mean is that the media has blown the seriousness of H1N1, as compared to seasonal flu, completely out of proportion. That really shouldn't be a total shock - we fight media hype every day every time we fight BSL. It is exactly the same thing.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 10:44 AM
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Just to put things in perspective. (This is a common sense analysis based on what the media tells us--I'm not a doctor or a medical professional.)

The seasonal flu kills around 36,000 yearly during the flu season in the US. Unless the numbers change drastically in the next few months, H1N1 is much less lethal.

I heard these figures on the news last week, so they're fairly recent: So far, in the year it's been making the rounds, the CDC estimates 22,000,000 have been exposed here. Of that number, some are immune, some get mild symptoms, some get sick enough to see the doctor and a small group gets sick enough to need hospitalization. Of that last group, yes, a fair number have died...maybe 5,000 of them over the past year (not just the flu season). Of the original 22,000,000 exposed, that's less than one quarter of one percent fatality rate. Not very lethal at all. (If you want to work out maximum fatalities if the lethality of the virus doesn't change, that 22,000,000 is about 7.3% of the total population. So if the rate of infection/fatality remained constant and it swept through the rest of population, we might see perhaps 70,000 deaths nationwide over the next few years. Still less lethal than the 36,000 per year from the seasonal flu.)

Once that information came out, the media started concentrating on the kids instead of the general public. Less than 200 have died so far nationwide, but there are usually only about 60-70 deaths nationwide among children from the seasonal flu. So that number in the hundreds looks scary, but is still just a small proportion of children being exposed. The schools and universities have been hit hard--last fall, all summer and this fall. Many of the kids have already been exposed, fought it off, and should be immune.

Now, does that mean don't get the vaccination because it's not important? As bendyfoot points out, if the vaccine works, a case of the flu is preventable. In addition, many people have already been exposed and/or had H1N1 since last fall...millions in this country. Those people don't need the vaccine...and a good case could be made that they shouldn't get it. Medical personnel here say that if we've had the flu since spring, it was most likely H1N1 since the seasonal flu didn't start till just recently. So there are likely millions of people who are now immune. Makes it difficult to tell if you need the vaccination or not.

The schools here have been hit hard--most of our school-age kids probably have already been exposed and are now immune. I think many people are vaccinating their very young children (not yet school age) but not their older kids who have already had the flu come through the school.

The confirmed number of children that died of the H1N1 flu stood at 35 for the month of October (that's a monthly high). New cases of H1N1 infection in the States seems to have peaked.

Certainly anyone with an egg allergy should not get the vaccination. But for everyone else, illness history in the past year should be considered (if you've had H1N1, you shouldn't need the vaccination), as should underlying chronic medical conditions, age of children in your household and advice from your physician. And then, you just have to decide if the risks of the flu outweigh the risk of the vaccine. Unfortunately, since all the info we get here is filtered through the media, the risks we perceive are not always realistic. Although the H1N1 vaccine hasn't caused many problems in the US, there are always problems that surface with any vaccinations--including that for the seasonal flu.

If we could predict who will die and who will fight off infection, it would be an easy decision. Unfortunately there's a lot of gray area. So you have to look at the statistics for your area and make your decision as best you can.

I have asthma and likely have not been exposed to H1N1 yet. WI led the nation in number of cases confirmed over the summer--not sure where we stand in the rankings now. Even so, my chances of infection are low as infrequently as I see people so I don't think I'll get the vaccination If we suddenly start seeing an accelerated fatality rate as seasonal flu takes hold and the viruses combine and mutate, I may change my mind.
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Last edited by hazelrunpack; November 26th, 2009 at 10:51 AM.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 11:11 AM
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H1N1 went through our office. The colleague I share an office with was very sick along with her children...very sick...
We also had several healthy children in Eastern Ontario who got sick and died within hours, if not days, of an initial diagnosis and were under observation.
Our school had an absentee rate which was well above normal during the second wave, and this trend concerned me.
My concern was not about getting the flu, but the disporportionate rate of healthy people under 50, with no underlying conditions who experienced hospitalization with severe complications (kidney shut down, need for ventilators) or death.
I chose to get vaccinated and my children were also vaccinated.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
L4H,I don't usually disagree with you,but lets not blame smokers againpeople with underlying problems,such as heart,lung, ,kidneys,liver etc...are not ALL smokers or someone exposed to a smoker.
I would put the blame(if any) on our paranoid anti-bacterial society
I didn't blame smokers, I just wondered how many of those who have passed away from h1n1 were smokers or lived with smokers and had no underlying medical conditions. Nothing to do with stating heart/lung diseases are caused by smoking.
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