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Old August 18th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Very Upset please I need advice.....

Hi Everyone,

I haven't been here in a while just a very busy life getting one son ready for 8th grade and the other for first year of College and loving my fur baby. I'm extremely upset and I don't know what to do. I'm hoping someone can give me some advice. Before I'm jumped on the dog has been to the vet several times for this.

I have a Shih Tzu male who is going to be 10 months old Aug 20th. I had him neutered May 15th and cried the whole two days. He was so out of it and I was really scared but he was fine. Just really doped up and I never saw anything like that. I didn't leave his side.

Yes the puppy is a puppy mill dog. I did not set out to do this. I don't even go into puppy stores. My sister needed me to pick something up for her and I saw him and fell in love with him. He was already 4 months old and I heard them say he was at their other story and that he was getting old. Well we bought him and he has been a fantastic puppy.

He is bell trained to go out side. He loves to cuddle and we only feed him Natural Balance. Sometimes we will give him some cooked ground turkey mixed in his food. He loves baby raw carrots and we are careful with his treats not giving him wheat or soy of red dye #40. I bought him a water bottle from Aqua babies to drink from and he only gets spring water.

Here is my problem. I noticed that every time he went out to pee he would drop down and lick himself. It was like he had a burning sensation. It would come and go so when I noticed it happening more I made an appointment with the vet and had him checked. It came back that he had blood in his urine and had a UTI. He was put on Amoxicellin for 14 days but on the 10th day I was told to bring in another urine sample. I do clean catches with a sterile container. (human urine sample cup) Well he still had the UTI so I was told to stop the amoxicellin and start the Clavamox he was put on 62.5 mgs giving him 1 and a half 2 x's a day and bring in urine again between 9 to 12 days. I brought in the Urine today which is day 10 and he is no better.

Now I'm told that he will need x-rays and ultra sound and a urine cultural. This will cost 375.00 on top of the 225.00 that I have already spent. Now I asked the vet if we could do a clean catch Urine cultural first to see if the antibiotics were the right one for the infection he said that they are done all together but the girls said yes they could do that and it would be 75.00. My reason for this is if they are not giving him the right antibiotics for the infection that this could go on forever. Not to mention I don't want my dog on antibiotics for so long. I don't even like them for my kids.

I have front lined him 3 times 6-7 weeks apart so far but I'm scared to do it again and am looking for something more natural. He has had the Lyme vaccine due to where we live and I myself have Lyme. Could there be something really seriously wrong with my puppy. He is like one of my kids and I'm really upset as to what is going on. I read that Shih Tzu's could have renal disease but when he was netured they gave me the option as to weather or not to have blood work for 75.00 on top of the neutering and I said yes. I have copies of all the labs that were run and they are perfect.

He is well groomed, peter kept clean and hair is shaved in that area. He is groomed every month.

Please give me advice. I'm so upset I don't know what to do. I don't even know what could cause this?

Sami
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Old August 18th, 2009, 12:59 PM
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I''m sorry your pup is going through this.

Have you thought about taking him to another vet for another opinion? Maybe there is something your vet isn't looking for that another vet can find.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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A clean catch sample won't give you a decent culture, Sami. Too many contaminants. So if you do the culture, have them do a cystocentesis...they extract urine from the bladder via a needle and can get a more sterile sample.

Having them just do the culture from that will be much less expensive than the xrays and ultrasound. It could be that he needs a different type of antibiotic. Since they were going to do a culture, anyway, when they did the xrays and ultrasound, it's a good first step. If the results indicate that there's something more going on, you can always opt to have xrays and ultrasound done later--that will give you some time to put a little extra money aside each week to put toward future expenses.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 02:26 PM
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What would best for the puppy? I will get the money I just don't want to put the dog through all of this if it's something that I'm doing wrong. I called a bit ago and they are going to spin down the urine and see if there is crystals in it. At least this will give me one answer.

Is there something that I can do naturally to help with the UTI? Could this be the food?

The Vet is a great Vet but he's not cheap. Just to have the urine dipped in house is 29.00 that's without a visit. The last dose of meds were 47.00 and his office visit is 43 for non emergency.

I thought the water bottle would be good but then it may hold bacteria so now he's getting water in a glass bowl.

He's not a big drinker nor eater but he weighs 13 lbs at 10 months. He free feeds. I tried for months to put the food down for 30 minutes then remove it but he refuses to eat. So now I know he will eat 1 cup of food a day so as long as he eats that I'm find with it.

Thanks for the advice and concern.
Sami
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Old August 18th, 2009, 02:37 PM
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Best thing for puppy is to get to the root cause of the problem--and I'm afraid that means working with a vet to pinpoint it.

Food choices might help, especially if it turns out to be stones, but probably won't be a cure-all. What are you feeding him now?
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Old August 18th, 2009, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
A clean catch sample won't give you a decent culture, Sami. Too many contaminants. So if you do the culture, have them do a cystocentesis...they extract urine from the bladder via a needle and can get a more sterile sample.

Having them just do the culture from that will be much less expensive than the xrays and ultrasound. It could be that he needs a different type of antibiotic. Since they were going to do a culture, anyway, when they did the xrays and ultrasound, it's a good first step. If the results indicate that there's something more going on, you can always opt to have xrays and ultrasound done later--that will give you some time to put a little extra money aside each week to put toward future expenses.

I completely agree here, it's my thoughts exactly. Have them start with the cysto and the culture&sensitivity. This could be a simple case of the wrong antibiotics. Once you know what critter you're dealing with you can treat is more effectively.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 05:48 PM
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They did a urine gravity and it was high. One of the problems I am having with him is he refuses to drink. I even bought him a Aqua baby water bottle but he just doesn't drink. I was told this could very well be the problem. How can I get him to drink? He has fresh water at all times and it's spring water.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Will he eat some really watered down canned food? That is strange, and scary, that he wont drink water.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:00 PM
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Have you tried tap water? Maybe he doesnt like the spring water. I imagine it would burn to pee if he wont drink, poor little guy. Maybe he was not used to having water available
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:29 PM
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Very upset please

I have had sucess getting them to drink by adding a couple of tablespoons of milk to a small bowl (1/4 cup) of water .
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Old August 18th, 2009, 06:32 PM
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Have you tried a drinking fountain? Some animals are attracted to the running water.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 07:08 PM
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Try adding low sodium chicken or beef broth to his water. Or make it yourself without salt. Add to his food too. I add about half a cup of water or broth to my dog's food as her urine is quite concentrated.

I would also have your vet compare the urinalysis done with voided urine versus urine by cystocentesis. I would have the xrays done so they can determine whether there are stones in her bladder or kidneys. I too have spent $1000 this year on my dog's UTI and crystal issues this year. She had had an xray done and then when they didn't see anything, they did an ultrasound on her. They did find some inflammation in her kidneys but no stones. The problem seems to have cleared up other than her not drinking enough. She had struvite crystals which often occur with a UTI. However, usually, these crystals will not be a problem when the UTI has been resolved. There is another type of crystal - calcium oxylate - which are harder to get rid of.

Good luck...try to get your dog to drink more water. Do you exercise him a lot? Sometimes crystals can form from inactivity. I don't know if he has crystals but I would do the xray and see if they find anything. Then if nothing is found and he still has the UTI, maybe get a second opinion.
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Old August 18th, 2009, 07:55 PM
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When a dog doesn't want to drink enough clear water you need to find something to bait it with that he finds appetizing. For some it's as simple as a handful of dogfood floated in it, or something like broth, gravy, meat meal etc. In the winter I cook a lot of chicken for us and the dogs so that I can make them broth to keep them hydrated at the races. Sometimes there's too much activity and excitement for them to want to bother drinking unless it's baited. Usually I get about 1 1/2 four litre jugs of broth each time I make it. I take that plus another jug of clear hot water (to mix with the broth to warm it) for 4-5 dogs and by the end of the weekend they've drank it all up. When then get home each day and have their supper they also get chicken and a bit more broth or water in their kibble. That's another way to increase water intake - add it to the food. If the dry food is mixed with some canned food, gravy, broth etc. and watered down he'll probably eat it right up and it won't have time to get soggy like if you just add clear water.
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Last edited by Gail P; August 18th, 2009 at 07:59 PM.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 05:08 PM
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I agree that further testing needs to be done. Bloodwork is a good starting step and in many areas will give you advance notice of any problems. The exception to this is kidney function. Unfortunately kidney problems won't show up in bloodwork until the kidneys are down to a fraction of their normal function.

If your vet is concerned about kidney issues, there is a test called an E.R.D. that can detect kidney issues much earlier than normal bloodwork. It's not expensive and might give you a better idea of what you are dealing with, or at least what you aren't dealing with.
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Old August 19th, 2009, 06:23 PM
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I just want to take the time to thank each of you for your concern and taking the time to advise me on what I should do.

Update:

Sace is like a new dog.....LOL He is still on antibiotics and will be for 2 more days. He then has to go off of them for 4 days to do a culture. I took the advice and added in water to his dry food along with some ground turkey. I also added in a bit of 1% milk. Not a lot just a splash and this dog drank more in a day then he did in a week. OMG! I can't believe something so simple would do this.

Doctor called and I told him about Sace not drinking and he said this could be a big part of the problem. So I guess now we wait. I have to bring in urine to have the Urine Gravity done again and then the culture but I'm conviced that everything will now work out.

I just thought this was normal since he never really drank much.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!
Sami
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