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Old August 16th, 2004, 09:28 AM
Katherine Katherine is offline
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Unhappy **Update at bottom* Broke out of plastic kennel

I feel horrible even posting this but i really feel like im at the end of my rope. My puppy has continued with the behaviour including defecating and peeing all over our sofa this morning. Im at work today and hubby is home sick and the dog has been flipping out ever since i left. He has major seperation/confinement anxiety. The crate is absolutely out of the question as he breaks out of it. My husband tied him to the radiator in the kitchen this morning while cleaned up the mess and he chewed through the leash . He also procedeed to chew our kitchen table ,the blinds. knock everything off the counters and microwave stands and also broke through the gate at the kitchen door. What else are we supposed to do ??? I understand that i need to get him into obdience classes but in the interim he is going to destroy the house and probably injure himself.

Starting tomorrow nobody will be in the house during the day and im nervous about the damage hes going to cause. This dog is like houdini , he always manages to break free.

We tried a metal leash to and he managed to break the tether off.

The next thing im thinking is getting him medication for when we leave to take the edge off of his panic. Other than that i feel like ive run out of suggestions
  #2  
Old August 16th, 2004, 10:06 AM
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You might contact your vet and where you adopted him from. They can maybe refer you to a trainer that can assess his behavior and best advise how to approach this problem. The vet can prescribe medication also that can help calm him temporarily while he is being retrained. Poor guy must have a sad history of being left and rejected. I keep picturing his sweet mischievious face. Den-Den was my "wild child" - wonkiest puppy I ever had, and had me in tears many times. When he settled down, it was amazing. Really worth the time and effort! I realize now that he's the most sensitive dog I ever had. There are some things I would have done differently, but hindsight makes it easy to see that. You might also check into a doggie day-care while he's settling down. Please discuss all your options with a professional trainer before you give up on him.
  #3  
Old August 16th, 2004, 10:45 AM
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Well it's a puppy!! YOU need to train him as if he never was trained before!
First of all take a DEEP breath and know it WILL GET BETTER!

Second, how can he get out of the crate???? What type of crate is it, post a picture!

It's all frustrating esp when 'nothing' seems to go right! BUT it will!
YOU NEED TO FIX the crate so he can't get out of it! AND when he's that high strung especially you can't tie him up to anything or he will hurt himself.


This dog / pup cam from a shelter and who knows where it came from before that and how long it was not trained!

You will need to get that pup outside every single hour until it he learns not to go inside. NEVER scold him when he goes inside just take him outside. Don't yet at him for 'anything' or you will do more damage then good.

Remember, this pup may be big but you are teaching him things he should have been taught at 2mons old.

So, how many hours will he be left during the daytime? I hope we aren't talking 7/8hours here!! IF so you should never have gotten a puppy!
AND you HAVE to get someone to your home during that time to get this puppy outside OR you have to have a petsitter, board him during the day.
You CANNOT leave him alone unsupervised running through your home. AND he cannot stay 7/8 hours in a crate!!
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Old August 16th, 2004, 12:02 PM
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You are going to have to contain this pup, no doubt about it. You can't leave it in the kitchen while gone, you may come home to no kitchen. Do some reading on the internet and see what you can come up with.

This must be extremely frustrating for you and your family. I would be mortified if my dogs peed on my beds and couches. What I "would" do though, is make sure they didn't have the chance to do it. Confine, confine, confine.

Get some great treats and chew bones for your boy.

I feel bad for you, because this guy sounds like a handful.

Heather and 3 Golden Girls
  #5  
Old August 16th, 2004, 01:51 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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I really feel for you! But if you take this puppy back to the shelter, he is liable to be killed, or be bounced from home to home and maybe be abused or condemned to life on a chain in some backyard.

For now, a 6' x 10' chain link kennel the yard might be a good place to keep him until he calms down and gets some training.

You might want to go to the health food store and get something called "Rescue Remedy". Many people swear by it to ease anxiety in newly adopted dogs.
  #6  
Old August 16th, 2004, 03:05 PM
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If he's this high strung he has probably been adopted out a few times in my opinion and each time it gets worse as he feels anxious and unstable in his environment.
It's very sad, poor guy!!
The rescue remedy may help some, good idea LR

Let us know how things go. AND if your crate is broken sometimes u can rent them from a pet store or from a vets office.
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  #7  
Old August 17th, 2004, 01:13 PM
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After the incident yesterday morning i spoke to one vet and made an appointment with another.

One vet that i spoke to said that it was possible to turn him around with a behaviour specialist but it wasnt guaranteed. I took him for an appointment with my local vet yesterday and it was a very negative experience . After describing his behaviours the vet recommended that i return him because in his opinion his behaviours would not improve . Nonetheless i was able to get him to give me some meds for him ( Clomicalm? ) to help take the edge off of his panic when we leave.

I also called the Toronto Humane Society becuase i was hoping they would offer some support in caring for the dog ( since they obviously didnt evaluate this pup properly before adopting him out, there was no mention of seperation anxiety when we got him ) . Anyways the lady there basically emailed me a standard info sheet on seperation anxiety because obviously i hadnt thought to do that myself and offered to let us borrow a plastic kennel which she stated would be stronger and less likely for him to break out of. I responded immediately taking her up on her offer and asked to pick it up yesterday evening , i also followed up with a phone call and got no response

We left him this morning in his newly repaired reinforced crate, with a kong filled with peanut butter ( his favorite ) , one of my nightshirts and his water. We also gave him his dose of medication.

Hubby came home on his lunch hour and he managed to break out again ( despite the crate being reinforced and him being sedated ) , he did some more damage , chewed , defecated and urinated .

I called the humane society again and spoke to another lady who stated we can pick up the kennel tonight. I was also basically told that there was nothing they can do to assist me with his behaviour.

I really dont want to give him up , but i dont know if im going to be able to turn his behaviour around. We are basically away for 4 hours in the morning, walk on lunch , then alone for another 4 hours.

We are getting the plastic kennel tonight and im really hoping that will contain him .

Just thought i would post an update .
  #8  
Old August 17th, 2004, 01:25 PM
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Well atleast they are going to let you use a plastic crate thats one good thing.

Poor guy probably very very highly stressed out!

It's terrible witht your vet not offering you any encouragement. Pups can be destructive esp the ones coming from rescue.

I see how frustrated you are but lets try this plastic crate and see how that goes. I hope they're gonna give you one big enough for him to stand up and turn around in.


Make sure in the morning he has a good run and bowel movement before you leave to go to work! Its all very very new, I'm sure things will calm down once he begins to trust and know that you ARE coming back.Afterall we don't know what he went through before!!

Keep strong!!
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2004, 01:44 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Just as most vets aren't nutritionists, most are not behaviorists either. They are medical doctors. You wouldn't ask advice of an ear,nose,and throat specialist for your own emotional problems because you know they are not trained in that field.

I suggest you do consult a behaviorist before you do anything else. There are dogs who cannot be crated, and this one might be better off outside when you aren't home (in a secure kennel of course). I think the crate might be making this dog worse.
  #10  
Old August 17th, 2004, 02:13 PM
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I adopted a 5 year old part doberman/ part rotti dog and there was NO mention of his separation anxiety ... My first experience was that I left him loose for 20 minutes in the house while I went to get his dog tag, and when I came home, my neighbour told me he jumped through my opened window in the livingroom and was running away, my neighbour brought him back. So I bought a cage and put him in the cage when I went to work... came home and before I came into the driveway, had an eerie feeling, well somehow he got out of the cage ( obvious first time user didn't make sure both latches were locked tight ) .... My curtains were off the rods, my sheers where all ripped apart, my blinds were shredded, my stereo speakers were face down and wet.. and he chewed the phone cord...
Needless to say, I brought the dog back ( my heart still hurts because I knew his destiny ) But these places should warn the new parents what to expect from the animal, surely they are aware ( especially an older dog ) of their background... I heard that prozak is supposed to help with separation anxiety, with the kong and other treats to keep him/her busy...

I wish you all the best.... My heart goes out to you ... Good Luck
  #11  
Old August 17th, 2004, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
surely they are aware ( especially an older dog ) of their background.
How would shelter know? Many dogs come in as strays, with no background at all. Separation anxiety or destructiveness would not be apparent in a shelter kennel. Another thing (BIG thing) is that owners LIE like crazy when they want to dump their pets!

I know of a couple who adopted a Husky (a breed not known for being good with cats) The original owners swore he was perfect with cats. The first thing the dog did in his new home was to kill the cat.

New owners have to anticipate problems, and treat any new dog as though it WILL kill the cat, pee on the floor, or destroy things until they see with their own eyes that it won't.
  #12  
Old August 17th, 2004, 04:25 PM
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mastifflover mastifflover is offline
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I think that most people do not realize that people who work in shelters and rescues are overworked under paid and stretched to the limits emotionally and physically. Most of these people do this because they love animals and want to save and help as many as they can. Lucky you are so right people that dump there pets are liars and will say how perfect there dog is. That is why they are dumping it at a shelter if the pet is lucky enough to get dumped at a shelter and not on a dark street or a field somewhere. So they try to evaluate the best they can. These dogs are not in a home enviroment where they are left alone and you can find out more about them. You also must realize these dogs are scared and don't know what they did wrong for there owner to dump them. It takes a while for these dogs to trust you and vice versa but once they feel safe and loved they will do anything to please you and love you unconditionally. I know this for a fact my last 3 dogs have been rescues and yes they have been a lot of work and time and worth every second of it. I have had dogs from breeders and dogs from rescues, I will not ever purchase a puppy again and yes these rescues love you even more probably because they have seen the other side of life.
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Old August 17th, 2004, 04:28 PM
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I stand corrected !
  #14  
Old August 18th, 2004, 10:56 AM
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So he broke out of the supposedly "indestructible impossible to break out of" plastic kennel that the Humane Society gave us. The woman there told me yesterday that she has NEVER heard of a dog being able to get out of it , so i guess Farley goes in the record books

Hubby said that it doesnt *appear* to be that much damage this time. Apparently he only knocked over our coat rack and chewed my husbands new jacket ( that makes me sad ) .

So what now? Leaving him outside is out of the question, we live in Toronto and #1 our backyard isnt huge and #2 i know he'll get away and if does hes liable to get hit by a car.

So its been determined that hes not containable at all , i feel like our only option is to just let him run free but i feel like its a recipe for disaster.

Suggestions?
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Old August 18th, 2004, 11:17 AM
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Noooo don't let him run free YIKES!!

He may dig through walls, eat the floor and get into something horrible!

WOW you do have a huge situation here! Poor you! Can I say the weekend is coming? LOL and you will have more time to help him with his anxiety.

He actually got outta the crate huh, well yur dog is smart!! and that can be both good and bad.


Would you consider putting him in a doggie daycare for a bit?? IT may help.
They can keep an eye on him , he can play and get some of his energy out and he wont get hurt??


WHere in T.O are you? Just roughly.
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Old August 18th, 2004, 11:23 AM
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Do you have a room that you can put a crate in it? So at least if he does break out he has only that area. Do you leave the tv or radio on for him? I hope there is something that works for you guys. My husband would have no patience for a dog that destructive. Good Luck in finding something that does works.
  #17  
Old August 18th, 2004, 11:29 AM
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Maybe these services can be useful:

http://www.barkingalong.com/puppy_visits.htm
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  #18  
Old August 18th, 2004, 11:34 AM
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I had a dog much like you describe. He broke out of the metal crate, so I bought him a travel kennel. Well, he broke his tooth getting out of that one. He ruined four sets of blinds, the curtains for the sliding glass door, two crates, pulled the wall paper off the wall and ate the doorframe. And this was a corgi mix! Who would have thunk it! And after he broke out and did his little destruction routine, I would open the front door to find him calmly laying on my couch!


I found him a wonderful young couple where someone was always home. She worked nights, he worked days. The dog was great with their kids and never destroyed anything. After several months, they were able to leave him alone loose in the house to go shopping, as long as they weren't gone for too terribly long.
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Old August 18th, 2004, 12:07 PM
Katherine Katherine is offline
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Hiring a service for us is not going to work. First i dont like the thought of giving the keys to a stranger and secondly its not going to stop him from breaking out of the crate.

Doggy daycare , none in our area and he hates riding in the car to begin with. Also if im going that route i might as well quit my job because to have both my kids and a dog in daycare would surpass my income.

I just hope he doesnt get into mischief this afternoon ... I know theres strong recommendations to not let him run free but i feel slightly positive since he didnt detroy anything this time. Just knocked over the coat rack (no damage to the jacket thank goodness ) and he didnt poo or pee anywhere !! I almost feel like this dog is training us to how he wants to live . I wish we had a door on our kitchen that would have been perfect.
The only other room would be the washroom but it is quite narrow and for some reason my husband is adamant on him not ruining that door .

Ill post an update after i get home
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Old August 18th, 2004, 12:11 PM
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Well very best of luck

Too bad doggy play/day care wouldn't be a good idea for a few days.

If you need help lookin for one in your area let me know I'll help you out
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Old August 18th, 2004, 01:36 PM
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Have you tried putting him in the kitchen and putting a baby gate up and put every thing up that he could tear up and things like that (rugs, towels, plants, trashcan, etc.) and see how he does in there. Does he have plenty of toys to play with? I would leave him in there with nothing but his toys water and food and a blanket to sleep on and see how he does in there. I mean he is not locked in pen, but he also does not have free reign of the house. I know this sounds dumb but when we found our dog and after he was over being sick he wanted to get into everything until he found one of my bras and he loves the thing he sleeps with it takes it outside and on walks and everything else. Try something that smelles like you that he can have on top of all the toys (something he can tear up if he wants but is fun to play with) worth a try!
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  #22  
Old August 18th, 2004, 03:02 PM
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Katherine.
I'm not quite sure how big your pup is, but I had to invest in the biggest metal gage there was, and maybe taking him for a walk first thing in the morning before work then putting him securely in the cage with his toys might help...TV or Radio on will help also, this will give the dog a sense that there is someone there...
maybe if he's really young, a ticking alarm clock will help, reminds him of his mother's heart beat ... these are little things you can do ...eventually, you can leave him say for 1/2 alone, loose, just go for a walk yourself or to the store then gradually leave him alone for longer periods ... Remember this is necessary to leave him alone... this will help with the separation anxiety..
When I left my pup alone, I was so worried, but he was caged and had all his toys with him to keep him company...
Let me know how it's going
  #23  
Old August 18th, 2004, 04:05 PM
Katherine Katherine is offline
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Hi thanks for all the suggestions,

We did get the biggest metal cage and i also take him for a good walk in the morning to poop him out. I also leave him my nightshirt ( which no longer smells like me but pee ) , some toys and a treat. I also leave the radio on.

He broke out this afternoon and didnt destroy anything. Slight digging at the door but not like before , and he also peed on the hall carpet and on the guest room bed.

Its actually improvement .

Could these mean hes turning the corner or could he easily regress back to the defecating and chewing?

Thanks for all the help btw. Its been so nice having this site to go to . I honestly dont know what i would of done without it
  #24  
Old August 18th, 2004, 04:39 PM
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He's on the road to doghood ( like manhood ) give him lots of praise. Make sure that you limit his rooms... put up baby gates up, close bedroom doors etc ... if you make sure his cage is securely latched, he shouldn't be able to get out unless he's half piranha joking. You are doing everything right. It's tuff being a mom ... mines 19 months old, and there are days I come home and still find the odd ripped up papers on the floor, they get bored so easily.
You will find messes but in the meantime, maybe you should lay down some
puppy training pads where he messes... until he's truly trained, this might help on the carpet cleaning bills .... once again Good Luck

Here's a pic of my pup -- he won't be into adulthood till he's two!
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Old August 18th, 2004, 05:36 PM
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BEAUTIFUL I love gsd's..............
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Old August 18th, 2004, 05:42 PM
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Thanks Heidiho
He's my Baby ... never had a purebred before, but they sure are intelligent. Now if only I can teach him my job .... I'd be all set
Have a great evening.
Kuma's Mom
  #27  
Old August 18th, 2004, 05:46 PM
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To funny i ahd one just recently,a male,long story short,i had noooo idea how smart gsd s are til i got him,he became very very alpha,outsmarted me every step of the way,but has a good ending he is gonna be a rescue dog,the lady that has him was so impressed with how smart he is,miss him alot,but his mind had to be put to use..His pics are under the picture section,damien is his name,your dog is truly perfect..
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Old August 18th, 2004, 05:47 PM
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oops,i meant service dog..
  #29  
Old August 18th, 2004, 06:34 PM
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I didn't read all the posts, but it seems that your dog should not be able to get out of his kennel. How can your dog get out? Does he actualy break it in order to get out of it? If it is a plastic one, you will want a metal one that is stronger.

It sounds like your dog is a bit crazy. Is he getting enough excersize? It sounds like he is maybe a hyper breed. Do you take him for at least two hour long walks a day? Does he have lots of fun toys and toys he can chew on? Maybe he is teething and needs to chew on something. His mouth might hurt. Does he have a place outside to go where he can't escape? He might want to be outside so he has a bit more room. Do you excersize him really hard like playing a fast game of fetch, jogging, or frizbee? He needs something to put his energy into.

Do you have a regular routine? Make sure he knows when you're coming back each day and when you're leaving. Give him his food at a certain time, put him in his crate for a nap at a certain time, take him out often all at times when he knows that you will, play with him at a certain time and train him at a certain time. Dogs need this.
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