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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:38 AM
colekar colekar is offline
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Exclamation Dog Jealousy makes him snap and bite

My border collie I've taken in from a rescue centre is generally well behaved, doesn't jump up, bark or attack anyone or other dogs (unless he's attacked first) and shows no signs of aggression mostly. However in the last couple of days he has started barking, jumping up and tried to bite anyone I hug or kiss.

He gets down immediately I say "no" but I am concerned he will end up biting someone. I'm not sure but it seems that he is jealous. I have a 7 year old grandson who he's not met yet and I'd like to stop this behavoir before it gets out of hand.

Any ideas of the best way to do this?
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Old April 30th, 2009, 08:47 AM
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Blackdog22 Blackdog22 is offline
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You need to make an appointment with a dog trainer.
It's impossible to be able to tell you where the aggression is stemming from over the internet. Someone needs to see the dog and witness the action before advice can be given. That being said, going by what is written (which is very vague) I would say it sounds like it could be dominance as well as a few other things, which I feel are unlikely.
From what you have written it sounds more like this dog has alot of control over you and your actions. Where does he sleep at night? How is he fed? How much daily OB are you doing with him?
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Old May 1st, 2009, 10:27 AM
Promethean Promethean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colekar View Post
My border collie I've taken in from a rescue centre is generally well behaved, doesn't jump up, bark or attack anyone or other dogs (unless he's attacked first) and shows no signs of aggression mostly. However in the last couple of days he has started barking, jumping up and tried to bite anyone I hug or kiss.

He gets down immediately I say "no" but I am concerned he will end up biting someone. I'm not sure but it seems that he is jealous. I have a 7 year old grandson who he's not met yet and I'd like to stop this behavoir before it gets out of hand.

Any ideas of the best way to do this?
First thing you need to do is stop pretending you have some insight into the dogs motivations and specially his emotions or lack thereof. All you really know is that under certain circumstances the dog reacts.

This reaction is quite normal and you will commonly see it in other dogs and from your description it is not an aggressive reaction - barking does not mean aggression.

You change this behavior by practicing alternative behaviors, sit for example - practicing is the key here. Waiting for it to spontaneously happen an then REACTING is not helping. Secondly make the hugs a predictor for the dog to be rewarded in some way, in essence turning a hug/kiss into Pavlov's bell
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 07:53 AM
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Gail P Gail P is offline
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First of all, are you absolutely certain that what you're seeing is an aggressive type of behaviour? One of my BC's gets really crazy when he's playing, he jumps, barks and will poke at me with his nose (and sometimes bump with his teeth but never bite, though he does love to nibble at times) He gets very loud and very toothy looking but it's all in play. To someone not used to such behaviour it's possible he could seem to be very overbearing and possibly aggressive. Hugging or kissing doesn't set him off, but running/yelling/squealing etc. does get him going if anyone starts playing around or rough housing. But, if I say "Enough!" it stops.

Have you ever had a border collie before? They are super intelligent dogs and it doesn't take long for them to learn how to train us if we're not careful. One or two repetitions of a behaviour that brings a desired response can be all it takes for something to become ingrained. This can work for us in training, or against us if we make mistakes and reward the wrong kind of behaviours accidentally.

Something you will need to be very clear with your grandson about - this is a type of dog that has certain innate instincts. Your grandson needs to calmly and quietly get to know the dog, throw toys etc. but no running until you are certain he can do so without evoking a chasing behaviour. If at any time your grandson is running around and the dog tries to control the boy's movement your grandson needs to know to stop, stand still and when the dog is relaxed to walk instead of running. Border collies are bred to control movement and gather livestock, they don't like anything running away from them. They will try to control the situation with "eye" and body language (which humans do not always notice) but if that doesn't work it can escalate into "gripping" with their mouth, which to humans is viewed as nipping or biting and can cause fear in a child (which will then cause the situation to escalate as the child becomes upset and tries harder to run away). Gripping is a border collie's last resort, generally reserved for ornery sheep that are not responding to the dogs other signals, but if children ignore the dog's first attempts to stop them from running away, the dog may grip. BC's have different levels of drive, not all will react in this manner however considering your other thread about the desire to chase cars, it's possible that your new fellow may react to the fast movements of a child. Border collies can be excellent family pets, but the children as well as the dogs need to be trained how to properly interact and play in appropriate ways. When my daughter was younger and our dogs were pups I was very strict with her about the no running, not allowing ankle nipping, no encouraging chasing behaviour etc. and it's worked out wonderfully for us. We have 4 border collies plus a couple of mixes and other dogs, 8 in total and it's all good. Some of our dogs are trained to work stock, others love their balls/frisbees/other toys, a couple do some agility and most of our dogs are also sled dogs. There are so many fun things your grandson will be able to do with your new dog, BC's are always ready for anything. Active children and active dogs can be great buddies when they are taught how to get along the right way.
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Last edited by Gail P; May 2nd, 2009 at 08:14 AM.
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Old May 4th, 2009, 05:21 AM
colekar colekar is offline
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The advice for how to have our grandson behave is good and along the lines of what we already intended. However, my concern is that when I show affection, like hugs and kisses, to another person he can jump and bite - on one occassion breaking the skin on my husbands hand and leaving some quite distinct teeth marks.

My husband has had a collie before and was able to deal with the situation but I am concerned as this behaviour is a little beyond joining in a group huddle and appears to be like jealousy (even if not an exact definition of his motivation) . Whilst he stops when told 'no' it may be too late by that point with a child involved although the behaviour has lessened lately as we are more prepared.
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Old May 10th, 2009, 04:43 AM
Corinthian Corinthian is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by colekar View Post
My border collie I've taken in from a rescue centre is generally well behaved, doesn't jump up, bark or attack anyone or other dogs (unless he's attacked first) and shows no signs of aggression mostly. However in the last couple of days he has started barking, jumping up and tried to bite anyone I hug or kiss.

He gets down immediately I say "no" but I am concerned he will end up biting someone. I'm not sure but it seems that he is jealous. I have a 7 year old grandson who he's not met yet and I'd like to stop this behavoir before it gets out of hand.

Any ideas of the best way to do this?
Hello! my first post!
I don't think on this case that unwanted behaviour on your dog could be the result of Envy or Jealousy.
What I know about this breed is a herding dog,
The Border Collie was born to be Working, Playing, Running, Jumping.
I think he need an outlet for that Energy, I don't know if you provide him with enough Activity, Walking, Jogging or some Dog Sport.
I differ from the advice that say with a simple sit you go to correct your problem.
In my experience, give to him an activity, remember you start and finish the activity 45min or 1hour , then make sit or down and keep him relaxed, and then you can introduce to people or dogs.

Also Studies show somehow that dogs can fell Envy or Jealousy, accord to
The Journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Everybody who has a dog at home probably [suspects] that dogs can be very jealous of other dogs and also of people,
accord to Friederike Range of the University of Vienna, Austria.

'In experiments with 43 dogs, Range's team showed that the canines reacted to inequity.
The team had one dog watch another dog receive a reward for doing a trick. When the watching dog performed the same trick and was not rewarded, that dog refused to do the trick again, Range said...'

I hope this can help you! work for me!
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Old May 11th, 2009, 02:48 PM
Promethean Promethean is offline
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"Corinthian" is the stolen handle of the odious internet youtube troll "Starwarsucks" and he goes around stealing the handles of other people.

The real Corinthian can be found at
http://www.curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=1018
which is where this jerk formed the Youtube handle "FreThinkerCorinthian" as well as stealing his avatar.

In two other boards he also tried to sign up with a misspelled version of my name "Promethaen" and was quickly booted out for trolling. He has a history of stealing names and creating "sound alike" in the same or other boards to malign those who oppose his views.
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