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Old March 1st, 2009, 02:09 AM
Terrycito Terrycito is offline
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Exclamation Seizures

Hi ,
It's me again, now writing about Molly; she is going to be 6y/o in a couple of weeks, and has had seizures since a year ago. The first time was horrible, and of course every time she has an episode is very traumatic. She started on medication a couple of weeks after her first seizure, since then she's had a couple of episodes, mostly (I think) b/c she missed a pill (yes my fault). She's taking Phenobarbital, one pill AM and one PM (at least she has the lower dosage so if things get worse it can be increased). Last night she had a seizure , it was about 3 am, then tonight-midnight- she had another one..... I gave her a pill and a half almost at 1am and will continue with the increased dosage (half of a pill, so instead of giving her one twice a day I will be giving her one and a half twice a day) This was suggested by the vet, last time she had a seizure, which was a month ago. Since it's Sunday, I can't get in touch with the vet but I will call him on Monday, in the mean time I wanted to ask if anybody can give me any advice on this????? It is so hard to observe Molly during the seizure, I try to hold her head so that she doesn't hit herself, and after it has passed I talk to her and pet her while her "hyperness" goes away.... It is sad and I am very scared she will get worse, I just lost Terry last Dec. and I don't want to loose her too :sad:
Thank you for reading
worried Vicky
Terry
Molly
Mitzi
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Old March 1st, 2009, 08:39 AM
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Terrycito, so sorry to hear about your beautiful Molly's seizures...I am sure it is very difficult to watch. I really don't know anything about the dosing but if the vet already suggested it I would stick with it until you can talk to him tomorrow, especially if there has been another seizure.

I know for humans and am pretty sure it is the same for animals, it is not recommended to hold or restrict movement as this can lead to further injury it the seizing becomes more violent. If you are concerned about Molly's head, try to place pillows/blankets around her so she has a safe place but I would caution about holding her head. It could invite a head/neck injury. As I said, I am trained in this for humans but I am sure it applies to animals too. just my

I would be great if you could post some pics of Molly and Mitzi while you are waiting to call the vet tomorrow
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Old March 1st, 2009, 09:11 AM
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Sorry, no advice. Just wanted to let you know that I have been through this and I know how horrible it is. My Odus,was really bad, had them everyweek. We could not get them under control. I was a basket case. I slept so light, I wasn't even really sleeping, just waiting for the next seizure.

It sounds like you have things under control. Just remember to take care of yourself, because she needs you and she doesn't even know after a few hours, you are the one left with the horrible memories.

Give Molly and yourself a from people who know.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:25 AM
Terrycito Terrycito is offline
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Thank you for replying.... I know I have to rest but I can't, if Molly moves I am there, or if she breaths differently. While having the seizures I just try to prevent a fall , she is usually on our bed, or if she is on the ground I just put blankets so that she doesn't hit herself too hard..... I don't "hold" her head, b/c like you said, it has to happen... we can only be there to cushion.... anyways I hope Molly gets better

Here are some pictures of Molly and Mitzi.... we just adopted Mitzi over a month ago, she is 3 y/o and gets along with Molly very good!!! like if she had been living with us since she was a puppy...
Vicky
Terry (Schnauzer)
Molly (Redbone Coonhound)
Mitzi (Schnauzer)
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:35 AM
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It is so tough to deal with seizures. My toy has had them since she was a year old and is now almost 15. Hers are stress and food related so I can sometimes control them. She is not on meds though as hers are infrequent. About one every month or so. Doctor told me unless she started having them on a more regular basis, like once or twice a week, she didn't needs meds. Just to keep an eye on her. She tends to be exhausted and want to sleep after one and I let her. I just keep an eye on her to make sure she is still breathing. But then at her age I do that every day!
Has the vet told you what is causing them? Does he know?
Hang in there. Hopefully it will get better.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 10:46 AM
Terrycito Terrycito is offline
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We don't know what the cause was when she had the first one, but since she had a few within a month the Vet recommended to put her on her medication. Since then, this was a year ago to be exact, she's had maybe three episodes, two which happened b/c we didn't give her the pill (we missed two dosages) and the last one was this weekend but we didn't miss the pills this time. I don't know what the cause is......We are hanging in there, thank so much for your words
Terry
Molly
Mitzi
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Old March 1st, 2009, 11:37 AM
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corky/max corky/max is offline
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Which one is Molly and what breed is it?

What kind of dog is Molly? I ask because in a couple books I have it says which breeds are more prone to this happening. Let me know and will post another reply from these books. One thing I will quote right now: Most dogs that get seizures have a magnesium defiency and/or low thyroid (hypothyroidism). Under the supervision of a veterinarian (-right--you'd be lucky if they had any ideas about magneseium at all!) you should be able to significantly cut down on seizure medication by adding magnesium supplements to your dog's diet. As you can see, I am pretty down on most vets,--take too long to elaborate on but one little tidbit here--One of my vet's admitted she knew next to nothing about supplementing--that out of all their schooling about one day was spent on this kind of thing. Now a holistic vet probably would know a lot more. Will finish what else these books 'say' after I hear from you.

See you are from Wi. too. Ever hear of the little place I'm from--Cobb (about
10 miles west of Dodgeville (southern WI) and about 50-60 miles southwest of Madison. How far apart are we?
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Old March 1st, 2009, 11:49 AM
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Judging by the pictures and her signature, Molly is a redbone coonhound.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 11:50 AM
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Mitzi. btw, is adorable...love her little smirky face
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I did not love you, but because I loved you too much to force
you to stay" ♥ ♥

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Old March 1st, 2009, 01:18 PM
Terrycito Terrycito is offline
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Thanks for replying, yes Molly is a Redbone Coonhound, she'll be 6 in a couple of weeks. I am in Milwaukee.
I understand the "thing" with the vets, when my other dog, Terry, got sick, they (many vets saw him, even specialists) didn't know what he had, did not give a definitive diagnosis.... I don't even want to remember, it is so frustrating and sad!! I still can't recover from his loss

What kind of test would Molly need to find out if it is a magnesium deficiency? I will ask the vet about that and about the thyroid.

Please let me know what you find in the books.... thanks again
Vicky
Terry
Molly
Mitzi

p.s Thanks for Mitzi's comment, she is adorable, since day one with us she just fit in, with Molly, us and our friends, even during the superbowl the guys were more interested in Mitizi than the game.... that was funny.
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 10:13 AM
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corky/max corky/max is offline
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More on magnesium and seizures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrycito View Post
Thanks for replying, yes Molly is a Redbone Coonhound, she'll be 6 in a couple of weeks. I am in Milwaukee.
I understand the "thing" with the vets, when my other dog, Terry, got sick, they (many vets saw him, even specialists) didn't know what he had, did not give a definitive diagnosis.... I don't even want to remember, it is so frustrating and sad!! I still can't recover from his loss

What kind of test would Molly need to find out if it is a magnesium deficiency? I will ask the vet about that and about the thyroid.

Please let me know what you find in the books.... thanks again
Vicky
Terry
Molly
Mitzi

p.s Thanks for Mitzi's comment, she is adorable, since day one with us she just fit in, with Molly, us and our friends, even during the superbowl the guys were more interested in Mitizi than the game.... that was funny.
Sorry to be so late in getting back to you! Will quote frm Earl Mindell's Nutritin and Health for Dogs 1st as I am quoting frm where I left off on my first post: Dr. Beverly Cappel-King (Have you heard of her---She is very good and well-known but can't remember exactly 'what' she is called---to do with holistic and natural methods--She must be a vet though!) She puts all dogs with seizures on magnesium and consistently sees a decrease in the frequency and intensity of their seizures. Go to "bowel tolerance" (gradually increase dosage until the dog experiences diarrhea or gas) and then cut back until the diarrhea stops. Start w/doses of : sm. dogs--10 mg, med. dogs--20 mg., lg. dogs--50 mg, and giant dogs--75mg. His 'sizing' is sm. dogs = up to 20#, med=20-50 #, lg=50-100#, and giant=over 100#. A simple blood test can tell you if your dog has hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) or hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid). Ask your vet for the natural, rather than synthetic, thyroid supplements such as Armour (also called desiccated throid or USP thyroid), and be sure your dog is getting her daily dose of selenium. Selenium works with the thyroid hormone, enabling it to work more efficiently. Of course if your dog doesn't have hypothyroidism you won't need the thyroid supplement, nor the selenium. (med, lg, and giant dogs would get a daily 50 mCg. dose(NOT MG BUT MCG!) Nutritional sources for selenium are garlic, fish, red meats, shellfish, broccoli, eggs, organ meats, and chicken. A word about selenium--You live in WI. as I do--this is an area that doesn't have very much selenium in the soil--so anything grown or raised here is not the best selenium source. Did you know that areas that have little amount of selenium have more cancer in people!!? Now will tell you more of what he has written on magnesium. (This is in another part of his book---and talking about the book--This is copyrighted 1998--whether things have changed that much or not as far as newer medications, etc. or not I don't know but the author is/was(?) acclaimed author of bestselling books on natural health, including 'The Vitamin Bible, the pioneering reference work that revolutionized our understanding of vitamins and minerals. He is/was(?) a professor of nutrition at Pacific Western University in Los Angeles. He has R.PH., PH.D. after his name. I have prob. 4-5 books on supplements by him. This is a good book even if it is 10-11 yrs. old and I know they had it for sure on Ebay a few wks ago and very cheap for the used ones! Magnesium: Approximately 60-70% of the magnesium in your dog's body is in the skeleton. It is the 3rd member of the calcium-phosphorus team that builds and maintains strong bones and teeth, and it enables your dog's body to use sodium and potassium. Magnesium is important for proper muscle and nerve function and helps the body absorb calcium, vitamin C, vit.E, and the B-complex vits. Magneseium is active in producing enzymes that prevent blood clots, and it helps prevent lead toxicity by drawing lead out of bone and other tissue sites. Magnesium is also a heart-healthy mineral. Studies done in the 1970s found that dogs recovered frm heart-failure faster when given magnesium intravenously. Nutritional sources are leafy green vegs, milk, meat, beans, bananas, and apricots. Am going to put 'stuff' frm other book in the upcoming other post. Be right back!
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Old March 3rd, 2009, 11:47 AM
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More about seizures

Thought I'd better get that last post posted as my computer is acting up and I thought there for a couple minutes that I was going to lose it!

The name of this book is Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook by James M. Giffin, MD & Liisa D. Carlson, DVM--Being that it is written by a vet-I take this book w/ a grain of salt and tend to ignore some of the things they have to say esp. concerning commercial dog foods and some medications--But otherwise I consider it a very good book! Mine was published in 2000 and sold more than 600,000 copies--This being the 3rd edition---so prob. newer version(s) out there. But here goes: (Am not copying everything--too much and some isn't as important) Seizures are commonly associated with brain injury, encephalitis, brain tumor,heat stroke, brain abscess, poisoning, kidney failure and liver failure. Seizures associated w/a concussion frequently occur weeks or months after the head injury, and are caused by a focus of scar tissue in the brain.
POST-ENCEPHALITIC SEIZURES occur 3-4 wks after the onset of encephalitis. Distemper, in particular, is characterized by attacks that begin w/champing, tongue chewing, foaming at the mouth, head shaking and blinking, all followed by a dazed look.
POST-VACCINATION SEIZURES have been described in puppies under 6 wks. of age following vaccination w/a combined distemper-parvovvirus vaccine.
A sudden drop in blood sugar (hypoglycemia) can trigger a seizure. A common cause of hypoglycemia is giving too much insulin to a diabetic dog.
Common poisons that cause seizures are animal baits such as strychnine, antifreeze (ethylene glycol), lead, insecticides (organophosphates) and chocolate. Seizures caused by organophosphates are preceded by drooling and muscle twitching. Exposure to a spray, dip, or premise treatment suggests the diagnosis.
There are a number of conditions that, while not true seizures, are often mistaken for them. CARDIAC ARRHYTHMIAS can be mistaken for seizures because they cause loss of consciousness and collapse.
TREATMENT: If the dog is in a dangerous location at the time of the seizure, move him to a safe site. Otherwise, do not disturb the dog during or after the seizure, as THIS MAY TRIGGER FURTHER SEIZURES. Despite the old wives' tale, do not pull out the dog's tongue or wedge something between his teeth. Note the length of the seizure. As soon as the seizure is over, notify your vet., as he or she will want to examine the dog in order to diagnose and treat the underlying cause.
Seizures lasting more than 5 mins. (called STATUS EPILEPTICUS SEIZURES) or CLUSTER SEIZURES (several seizures one after the other without a return to consciousness) are EMERGENCIES. They must be stopped with intravenous Valium to prevent permanent brain damage or death. SEEK IMMEDIATE VETERINARY ATTENTION. Status epilepticus has a poor prognosis, because it is usually caused by a poisoning or a serious brain disease. I could write more on EPILEPSY but I just can't spend any more time here now---Ask your vet more about that. May come back at another time and print out what is in this book---It is fairly long and I am a 1-fingered typer so takes me longer than it should. Hope what I've sent you is of some help---Darn, I wish I would of got this to you Sun. night or early Mon. morn before you saw your vet. What did you find out-if anything?
GOOD LUCK---Hope everything turns out okay. Oh ya, almost forgot to tell you this--Now this is just the experience I had with my Max--Don't know if the 1 problem he had at the time was related or had anything to do with the seizures he was having but I'm inclined to think so because he has never had any problem since (and this happened about 7-8 yrs ago--He will be 10 on Apr. 1st.) I was feeding him too much fat (cooked for my dogs at that time and use to cook a lot of chicken and I should of taken the skin off--too much fat) Anyway he got bowel problems--colitis. He got dehydrated. He started having seizures (only lasted a couple seconds at a time and were not severe. They got a little more frequent as time went on (couple days this was happening before I started treatment for the colitis. Vet intravenously hydrated him and no fat diet, etc for a few days so it would clear up. Anyway found out his ph was out of whack--way too alkaline--up to 9 I think it was.---eating too many veggies I think. But I believe the ph problem and/or the colitis was causing the seizures. Think if I remember right--A dog's ph is suppose to be in the 5+ range--more acidic than ours.
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Old March 16th, 2009, 06:17 PM
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CarolynInPEI CarolynInPEI is offline
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Post Sounds Familar

Hi, I have a 14.5 year old dog named Monty who has been suffering from seizures for a little over a month now. He is on Phenobarbital and still is. He's been it a state of constant drowsiness since starting the phenobarb. He bumps into things, falls down, and doesn't seem to notice where he is a lot of the time. This is mostly due to the medication but partly due to his brain tumor. Well, on Wednesday nite he started having seizures again. I took him to the vet, tested the phenobarb levels in his blood and since he is on the low end of the dosage we increased him from 1.5 pills twice a day to 2 pills twice a day. Although the seizures have stopped, his mind is gone more. He can't handle what the phenobarb does to him and now his drowsiness is worse than ever. It's hard to watch. He fell down the stairs last nite. We have decided that putting him to sleep will be best for him. Although it's breaking my heart to think of him not being with me anymore. Even though he is not all there, he still is happy to be around his family. When he runs to me wagging his tail I forget all about whats wrong with him. But then he falls down and gets such a confused/scared look on his face. I'm heartbroken. I know that we have to do whats best for him, but I don't want him to go.
Sorry to get off topic. But I just want you to know that I know what you are going through. Your dog is young and hopefully will get through it. As long as she can cope with the side effects (if she has any) of the phenobarbital the higher dosage should keep her seisures away. (well hopefully, im not a vet).
I hope everything turns out great for you and Molly!
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 11:29 AM
Geracem Geracem is offline
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My Baby

My 18+ cat friend has a brain tumor which we have controlled with Valium up until Saturday, He had repeated grand mal seizures most of the day and again small ones on Sunday. I began him on 1/4 grain phenobarb and still can see the seizures and he is having trouble walking, etc. The vet wants to put him in the hospital and give him massive doses of pheno and steriods. I know he does not want to go to the hospital and I don't want him to die alone. I am not sure what the extra pheno will do. It won't make the tumor disappear and I do not know if it will increase whatever quality of life he may have.

It is so terribly hard to let him go........to help him pass over. I've loved him for so long.

Marty G
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 12:12 PM
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Hi, I'm sorry that your cat is sick. 18 years is a long time to know a cat, he must be very special to you. Seizures are a terrible thing. Watching your pet that you love so much go through them is very painful. And brain tumors, they are terrible too. That's what Monty had....the brain tumor was causing the seizures. The phenobarbital did stop them for a bit, but it didn't stop the tumor. And unfortunately they came back.

I don't really know what to tell you. Every situation is different. In Monty's case, the phenobarbital was too much for him, and the seizures wouldn't stop without more phenobarbital. We knew that his quality of life was very low....and it hurt to see him suffering. We had to put him to sleep on the March 18, 2009. I'm hurt beyond words to not have him with me anymore. As you know, pets are your best friend no matter what.

When Monty left us, I held him right to the end. He was surrounded by the people who loved him all his life.

Your cat, at 18, is obviously a strong kitty. The important thing to remember is his quality of life. Nobody knows your cat or loves your cat like you do, you will know what is right for him. I'm praying for him.
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 01:50 PM
Geracem Geracem is offline
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My Baby

Carolyn,

You would think that 18+ years would be enough, but it is never enough. He is my light, who helped me through the deaths of both my Mom, in 1992 and my Dad, in 2000. He has been with me in this house since my husband and I bought it. He is everywhere here. I also have 2 other cats, one 15 the other 13, but Bastian, who was my rescue, has always been my special.

He has a slow growing tumor and we don't know how long he has had it, but some symptoms go back to summer of 2007, with circling and constant walking on 11-29-2007.

It's just so hard to think of not having him run down the stairs, through the living room to greet me when I got home, to follow me up the stairs every single night, to lie next to me, head on pillow, paw on neck,,,,,,never missed a night since the day I brought him home.

I wish there were miracles and I wished I believed in them...........this all seems so very cruel. Why such a sweet, gentle, loving creature. I don't understand.

He is now laying in the hallway, watching me, making sure I am close by. I've taken this week off of work to be near and close to him and trying to make the right decision, for him.

Marty G
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Old March 23rd, 2009, 02:29 PM
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it's never enough...

I feel your pain. And 18 years may seem like a lot of time, but your right...it's never enough. We had Monty for 14 years......but it was not nearly long enough. And you will make the right decision. whatever it may be. Someone on this site told me to cherish every moment you have left.....there will be time to mourn when the time comes. As hard as it was for me to picture my life without my constant companion, I tried even harder to enjoy him while he was with me. Knowing that Monty's time was limited, it was so hard to not cry every time I looked at him. But I know he could sense my heartbreak and I tried to be strong for him.
Enjoy every moment you have.
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Old March 24th, 2009, 09:51 PM
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So sorry to hear about Molly's seizures. My dog also has siezures and is on phenobarbitol. Sounds like we are on the same medical protocal (1 pill in the am, 1 pill in the pm of phenobarbitol) but my vet also gave us a dose of Valium that we can administer if she has a breakthrough siezure. You might want to ask the vet for something similar to have on hand. Also, I've been advised to try and darken the room, be very quiet and not pet or talk to her. Just put my hand on her to let her know I'm there, but to do NOTHING to overstimulate her. I hope this helps. Good Luck
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