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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:11 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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I just put my Karma down please help

I have loved and lived with a german rotti named Karma, I took her from a so called breeder who was treating the pups poorly.I did not think I had room for her in my life but the guilt of her situation overcame me and I took her in.
She has had some kidney problems and 3 days ago she stopped peeing/pooing and couldnt hold even water down,I kept her at home for the day but the next day when things had not changed. I held her all through the night,I thought I felt her swell and she didnt sleep much had interupted breathing and was in severe pain.I took her to the vet and they immediatly xrayed her,her bladder was 10 times the normal size it was so large part of it was swollen under her ribcage and she had a stone in her kindey,she was an older rotti and had damage to her back knees tendons. The vet said her bladder was so swollen that she may even if treated, become incontinet,or her bladder walls may be so damaged that she may rupture or be partialy rupturing as we spoke. I talked to everyone in the office that day and they kept telling me the same thing.
So I made the decision to put her down,as she was passing she urinated a foul smelling mix of blood and urine,I was horrified wondering and still am if I should have just treated her for the infection and had her given a catheder or somthing,they said her bladder was sooo swollen and most likely infected thats she may of burst when she died?
I lost my folks when I was young and have never developed another long lasting friendship or love since,never had a puppy from begining to end so I apologise for seeming so sensitive,but I am lost and feeling like I killed my best friend,when I felt I did it for her cus bringing her home would have just been for me
I just wonder if anyone has had experience in this situation or knows what kind of pain and damage a streched bladder like that can do ...did I help her or rob her of morelife?:sad:
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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:26 PM
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I haven't any experience with this, but did want to offer my sympathies to you . You did the most unselfish thing you could and that was to set your precious pup free of pain so don't feel guilty, she wouldn't want you to.

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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:29 PM
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I hope you can find the answers you are looking for, it is never easy to say good bye to a friend....it sounds like you did everything you could for your sweet Karma.



sweet Karma....
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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:29 PM
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I'm so sorry for the loss of your baby. I have never experienced anything like you described so I don't know if anything could have been done to help her. It does sound like she was suffering so you may have just saved her from a very low quality of life.

RIP Karma
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Old February 26th, 2009, 07:55 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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You are all so kind and I appreciate your support..I am not a soft person who trapses about with my heart on my sleeve but I am beside myself with guilt and as odd as it may seem I just want affirmation that she was truly suffering,and the more she was suffering the more I feel I can be at peace with my decision... to roll in here and just cry and pout but I have noone in life to reach out to and my Karma is gone ty for all your help.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillonious View Post
You are all so kind and I appreciate your support..I am not a soft person who trapses about with my heart on my sleeve but I am beside myself with guilt and as odd as it may seem I just want affirmation that she was truly suffering,and the more she was suffering the more I feel I can be at peace with my decision... to roll in here and just cry and pout but I have noone in life to reach out to and my Karma is gone ty for all your help.
I like to consider myself a strong person, but I can tell you when it comes to my cats, I become very emotional.

You need not apologize for crying and pouting over the loss of your Karma. This is one of the few places where people will not only understand, but cry along with you.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillonious View Post
You are all so kind and I appreciate your support..I am not a soft person who trapses about with my heart on my sleeve but I am beside myself with guilt and as odd as it may seem I just want affirmation that she was truly suffering,and the more she was suffering the more I feel I can be at peace with my decision... to roll in here and just cry and pout but I have noone in life to reach out to and my Karma is gone ty for all your help.
No need to apologize, we have all been in your shoes before.....cry all you need to and hopefully the tears will stop eventually. You did what had to be done for Karma and that makes you a very strong person.
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Old February 26th, 2009, 09:10 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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I cannot thank you enough for your kinds thoughts and words,I have not been able to google any real useful information as to what kind of pain and permanent damage that kind of swelling does to the bladder?www.RightHealth.com I went to that link and they lure you in with the promise of an answer from a vet and then right at the end after you have asked the question and made an account a "vet" sends you a message saying they have expertise in what you are asking about then offer you 3 different prices to choose from grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
I would just like any responses from people that have had or heard of similar situations or point me to where I may find them ty.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 08:39 AM
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D,please don't dwell on whether she was in too much pain,she was in pain and you gave her relief.
Guilt,we all feel guilt,after all we end the life of someone we love,but it's our love that lets them go and it takes a strong person to do so.
Also,don't feel you are oversensitive,you lost your best friend,a friend you loved very much,there is no timelimit on mourning or crying,but one day you'll remember your sweet Karma with a smile on your face for all your wonderful memories
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Old February 27th, 2009, 09:09 AM
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My deepest condolences. I can so relate.

She was loved by you so please find comfort in that. She knew.

Karma run free.

Peace to you both.
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  #11  
Old February 27th, 2009, 09:17 AM
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almost the exact thing happened to a friend of mine about 6 yrs back, her dog was a 10 yr old poodle.....she had her treated for a week and the poor pet was in so much pain, you couldn't touch her, hold her or even get a sip of water in her, she suffered greatly in the week she was kept alive, please know in your heart and mind that you gave Karma the greatest gift imaginable....the gift of freedom and no more pain. I only wish we could give our human family the same consideration. You're a wonderful person, I'm so sorry you had to make the decision, but rest assured, to 99% of us here with fur babies, you did the right thing.

run pain free over the bridge Karma.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 10:09 AM
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I pm'd Dr Lee to see if he could come in and answer your question Dillonious. I am sure once he gets the message he will show up.
It's a hard decision to make. You gave Karma peace.

Karma
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Old February 27th, 2009, 11:14 AM
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Dillonious, I want to offer you my sincere condolences on the loss of your beloved Karma. Know that you really did the right thing for her. Granting her a peaceful and gentle passage is the ultimate act of love. But with that decision, we are swallowed with guilt. It is almost like we end their pain, and bring it upon ourselves. We aren't vets and therefore must rely on the expertise of others for medical advice. It involves an element of trust, but we also fear the "what if I could have done more."

We faced the same painful situation a few months ago. We had an ill dog who was being treated for bladder cancer. She also had a compromised liver and her medication went toxic and caused kidney failure. Letting her go was in her best interest, but was the hardest thing I've ever done. She was dying; nothing else could be done. Our decision let her go painfree and in dignity. Even with this, I still had feelings that I killed her, that I was playing God and it wasn't right. It took a few weeks, but I know in my heart that I did the kindest thing I could for her and showed her my love by letting go. Know you did the same thing with Karma. It hurts so much. Try to find some way to memorialize Karma; it really does help. I wrote a letter to Tipper and put some of her special things in a memorial box. I also found comfort in the www.petloss.com site. Again, I am so sorry for your loss. I can tell how cherished Karma was. It is OK to mourn.

Karma
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:12 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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You are such kind strangers...as this is such a strange time, she was everywhere I went and in every thought when she wasnt with me,my house is so quiet and empty now,I do not want to apppear selfish or anything,but I am at a loss as to how to deal with this I cant sleep and when I do I wake up heartbroken. I really need to know she was in pain and I did all I could,Im pathetic I know but please bear with me as you have it really helps and perhaps soon I wont be a babbling mees I miss you so much Krama and I am so sorry of rwhatI did to you:sad:
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:23 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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My dear friend - you did nothing harmful to Karma. You gave her the best gift that there is to give and that was ending her suffering.

I understand how you feel...trust me, I do. What I realize about what you wrote and what I went through recently - we need someone to blame ....and that someone is ourselves. I have been doing some soul searching and I have been supported by some wonderful people here on pets as well as collegues and vets who are supporting me. They are right.

Your tears and sorrow will turn into wonderful and joyful memories. You will heal and in doing so you will realize that you did everything right - ethically and morally.

Let yourself grieve but do not be so harsh on yourself...you did the best you could.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:23 PM
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don't be sorry for what ypu did, you did the right thing. and i'm so sorry for your loss.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 03:35 PM
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crying does help, so does talking to friends that have been there as all of us have at one point or another, no they can not tell us when they are in pain, but we know....and we have the strength to help them.....as you did...rest assure that you DID do the right thing.....now its time to grieve, not question yourself....and smile through your tears knowing you beloved pup is running pain free in heaven waiting for you
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Old February 27th, 2009, 04:10 PM
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RIP Sweet Karma!

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Old February 27th, 2009, 04:43 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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I am left breathless at the kind thoughts and words from you people and can never think of a way to tell you how much it helps,and means to me......
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Old February 27th, 2009, 05:02 PM
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we're a sharing caring group.....welcome to our forum. where in canada are you?
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Old February 28th, 2009, 12:29 AM
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I am very sorry for your loss.

I don't know that I can fully answer your questions but I will try to help out. It is difficult to try to help give answers when I was not there to see the patient and I do not have the patient file. I am assuming she was diagnosed with a complete urinary obstruction which left the bladder 'ten times' of normal size and unable to urinate; then after euthanasia - urine began to leak. Correct??

If a complete urinary tract obstruction was present then the loss of all muscular and neuromuscular tone might have led to leaking on a bladder that was stretched beyond belief. If the bladder had burst - it would have been internal and little to no urine would have leaked out. If a stone moved away or she was just really, really, really, really 'holding' it in - there would have been a flood of urine... not leaking but almost all of the urine in this 10x sized bladder. Thus the description seems to support a complete urinary obstruction.

One of the questions that remains is why was the urine obstructed? If there had been a stone in the urethra as there had been in the kidney - why was this not mentioned? Was it not there? This would raise the suspicion of a possible TCC or transitional cell carcinoma or cancer of the badder wall. This might explain why an obstruction was present, no visible stones in the bladder or urethra, etc.... Hard to say. A necropsy (pet autopsy) would be necessary.

It sounds like you loved her very much and she had some very serious health concerns. While I cannot give you exact answers, there is nothing here that makes me think that you made a wrong decision. It sounds like you made a very hard decision in the best interest of a close friend that was relying on you. I do not think you let her down in any way. God bless.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 01:18 AM
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My sympathies on the loss of your dog.

I had kidney infection myself, and it was extremely painful, I honestly could not wish that pain on my worst enemy. I was ill, not eating, and yet I gained 20 pounds in a few days. When diagnoised, (only days from renal failure) then put on meds, I lost the weight all most overnight, but had to sit, "you know where". It has been 6 years, and I have cronic kidney and bladder infections. I only say this about myself, is because the pain was extreme, and yes, I was having trouble breathing, my abdomen was tight, and hurting.

What you did for Karma was unselfish, and you should not feel guilty. You gave her the peace, she needed. Had you opted to treat, there could have been lots of other issues.

binky
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:17 AM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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Dr.Lee ty for answering I will upload pics of her xray if you would like to see them and the blockage in her bladder was surmised to be from swelling or infection,the stone was clearly in the kidneys,not blocking the bladder,so the reason for her being unalbe to pee was lost on me...before I took her to the vet I saw her try to go to the bathroom but she just looked at me,she couldnt hold food or water down,I wonder what you mean when you say holding it, could she physicaly hold it? ,I am not exagerating when I say ten times the size, it was biggeer than a volleyball.
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Old February 28th, 2009, 03:33 AM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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The vet said the blockage may also be from the infection and swelling and she may have got pyometra,when she passed, she peed like is was falling out very slowly,so considering the swelling I would say the passage was still obstructed in death, but non the less it came out,the bladder walls appeared cloudy in the xray the vet saying this was probably because they were damaged and partialy ruptured.I thank you for any input and will post the pics as soon as the vet emails them to me. tytytytytytytytytytytytytytytyty.....
All the time you people took out of your day....I shall truly stay and help in any way,be a part of what you do here so to speak,you people are kind beyond words and I thank you.
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Old March 6th, 2009, 01:48 PM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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I cannot seem to find any cases wher ea dogs bladder was so mercilessly streched and swollen to such a size then recovering ....so I dunno,I think I take comfort in the facet that I do not think 4 or 5 vets would colaberate to give me the wrong advice on her care.....I thank all those who took the time and if in the future you find anything I would appreciate the chance to read a link.Everytime I find somthing telling me it was the "kindest" thing I could do for her,my soul heals a little.
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Old March 6th, 2009, 05:35 PM
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I am sure if Karma is watching over you she would thank you for taking away her pain.
A small poem to help ease your pain a little :

I STOOD BESIDE YOUR BED LAST NIGHT

I stood by your bed last night, I came to have a peep.
I could see that you were crying, You found it hard to sleep.

I whined to you softly as you brushed away a tear,
"It's me, I haven't left you, I'm well, I'm fine, I'm here."

I was close to you at breakfast, I watched you pour the tea,
You were thinking of the many times, your hands reached down to me.

I was with you at the shops today, Your arms were getting sore.
I longed to take your parcels, I wish I could do more.

I was with you at my grave today, You tend it with such care.
I want to reassure you, that I'm not lying there.

I walked with you towards the house, as you fumbled for your key.
I gently put my paw on you, I smiled and said "It's me."

You looked so very tired, and sank into a chair.
I tried so hard to let you know, that I was standing there.

It's possible for me, to be so near you everyday.
To say to you with certainty, "I never went away."

You sat there very quietly, then smiled, I think you knew ...
in the stillness of that evening, I was very close to you.

The day is over... I smile and watch you yawning
and say "Goodnight, God bless, I'll see you in the morning."

And when the time is right for you to cross the brief divide,
I'll rush across to greet you and we'll stand, side by side.

I have so many things to show you, there is so much for you to see.
Be patient, live your journey out ... then come home to be with me.

Author Unknown.

I think it's beautiful and oh so true. Karma is your angel now.
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Old March 7th, 2009, 08:23 AM
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

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Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

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Old March 7th, 2009, 09:19 AM
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14+,that's is so beautiful
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 04:47 AM
Dillonious Dillonious is offline
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I went on a little trip and like a silly fool the fisrt thing I did was come to see what more I could find, I am a pathetic whelp lol but I love and dearly miss my puppy Karma, I am still at a loss to find any cases of other dogs recovering from what ailed her,soI am trying to take what positive form it I can ...Imust sy again how sweet you all have been and I really mean when I say it helps,ty
I wish still to hear fomr anythat have seen or heard of what I sopke about...it seemslike its been so long.
I miss you Karma and I hope I did what was best for you
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Old April 22nd, 2009, 07:41 AM
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So sorry for your loss of your karma, i am sure you did what was kindest for her, and she is know free of pain, you are in my thoughts
Run free karma
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