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Old February 21st, 2009, 11:53 PM
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Hyperthyroidism

I've done a copy & paste with editing starting from: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....559#post749559 to keep that thread on the CRF track, and so we can discuss the HyperT here

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Catter View Post
I will keep checking back...still don't have my numbers, getting them tomorrow early evening. They are doing a urine culture because the diluted urine really might be a UTI, my kidney values are ok (again, I find out details tomorrow), but my T4 is high -- I definitely have hyperthyroidism and doc has already mentioned meds. This really threw me. I was expecting a much more dire call. However, I know hyperthyroidism can mask kidney values, so I haven't run into the street to celebrate. And now I must learn all I can about HT (is that the correct acronym?) and how it relates to kidney function, how HT meds impact kidney values and function, etc. Regardless, I am going to continue to treat her as if she has crf/arf, etc. because it is so common in older cats and it appears HT and crf are very closely related...I will most likely study up on HT tonight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Catter View Post
i'll keep you all posted tomorrow evening when i get my actual values from the doc...am definitely wanting to do the Radioactive Iodine Treatment for her HyperT..it will kill me to think of her all alone for at least a week (maybe less ), but i think it will be less stress on her in the long run (this is, of course, assuming she is a candidate..it sounds as though it is standard protocol to try meds first..?) we shall see.

one of the hardest parts of caring for an animal companion is that they don't understand english (or whatever language you speak) (imagine that)...like i can't just say 'i'll be back in a week, you stay positive and eat and drink well, the faster the radiation levels come down, the sooner you get to come home. we'll do something special when you come home...so you have that to look forward to...'

nope. can't do that. for that week, they think that is what the rest of their life is going to be like (or at least i imagine that is what they think).
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Mad Catter,my Rocky has been on Tapazole for,I think,more than a year now(I forget,since time is flying by)and is doing ok.
Rockys symptoms were,weightloss,although he ate like a fiend.
Pacing,being hyper,he has also lost muscle-mass in his back-legs,with some signs of arthritis.
Rocky is 13 yrs old,I do have other problems with him,not related to HT,I think.
He goes every 3 months for a blood-test,next one due in March.
The Iodine-treatment is just not doable right now,if ever:sad:
But we'll see how he is doing.
Since on meds,he's gained most of his weight back.
During his last bloodtest(taken in the neck)he was extremely traumatized,they had trouble finding a vein,so getting him in to a carrier in March,will be doubly difficult
The vet said though,because I was very upset,that the next will be taken in his leg.
Is Mad-Catter your only kitty??
I have 2 others,Vinnie and Chico
for good testresults for Madison Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
As for the treatment for HyperT there are 4 options: Medication, Surgery, RaId, and Homeopathic Remedies. I wasn't seeing a Homeopath Vet at the time Duffy was diagnosed w/HyperT (2005) so I wasn't aware of that option. Duffy was never on any meds for it since she was caught early & in otherwise excellant health. It was my decision to go straight for the RaId though the cost is quite steep up front but when you compare it to a lifetime of testing & meds it is actually cheaper in the long run. Alot of cats are put on meds first in order to stabilize the Thyroid values then look at either surgery or RaId, however many are just treated w/meds and do great. There are not very many clinics that do the procedure since it is very specialized, the standard minimum stay is one week, some very sick kitties however do need to stay an extra week. If faced with the same situation I would either go for Homeopathic Remedies or RaId, my Homeopath Vet doesn't like the RaId treatment because it's obviously not a natural solution given that it releases radioactive iodine into the body to kill the abnormal cells, where as the remedies work to fix the cause of the imbalance. My previous Homeopath vet has a senior kitty with HyperT and she is being treated with a specific Homeopathic Remedy and she is doing great.
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  #2  
Old February 21st, 2009, 11:57 PM
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In keeping with the copy & paste and minor editing as mentioned above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Growler,I've never heard of the Homeopathic treatment,but of course I never asked anyone.
When you have time,maybe you could PM me some more info,or a site that I can visit.
I often feel guilty for not going the Iodine route,the cost is not the only issue,it's mostly about Rocky and the kind of cat he is,the effect this procedure and after-care would have on an already troubled kitty like him.
Then I feel guilty about putting poison(pills) in him every day too
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Catter View Post
Thought I would post our numbers, which we received last night:

BUN 21
Creatinine 1.2
Phosphorus 5.2
USG 1.011 (still waiting on culture results for UTI, etc. - find out on Tuesday)
T4 9.9

So, on Thursday night, after much research, I was pretty convinced about the Radioactive Iodine treatment, and then I slowly started changing my mind...decided to give it a go with the meds, hoping to tweak out a small dosage to control the HyperT...We are started on 2.5 mg twice a day, we just had our first pill a bit ago and I'm watching her every move, hoping for few side effects

I can't remember exactly what changed my mind about the meds, it is early and I'm still trying to 'catch up' on all the sleep missed this past week

I am wondering if it is possible to find a dosage where we retain the 'good' of HT - blood flow through kidneys and get rid of the 'bad' - they probably go together of course; I will next spend some time researching the meds, what they do exactly, is it a naturally occurring substance in the body (probably not. that probably sounds naive. but let me have my moment of naivety!), if there are any long term studies on the effects, etc.

There is also the issue of the 'type' of cat she is too.

And I may just need to incorporate liver health into her long term diet, to help as much as possible with ickiness of meds...hopefully the liver diet and the kidney diet will be similar, because I am definitely going to treat her as if she has crf (and she may very well, we will see soon hopefully...).

And we can always change our mind. I am sure she will wise up to me trying to sneak a pill in twice a day. The doc also mentioned a pharmacy here that will make it into a liquid and you can pick pretty much any type of flavor you want...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Madcatter,My Rocky is now on two 5mg pills/daily,we started off just like you.
It takes some adjusting and testing to get it right.
I think for food,if you feed them healthy,good quality food you take care of liver,kidney functions,the best you can.
My cats are all off the dry food totally now,which I feel really good about and they love the Wellness
You can clearly feel Rockys enlarge thyroid,it's almost 1 inch long:sad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Catter View Post
I am worried maddie's thyroid(s) is larger than normal too...I can't see it, but I can 'see' her purring and I don't think I ever used too (but, then again, perhaps I am now 'looking' for things

I did ask the doc about the size and if could possibly block the airway and she said no...not sure if she meant no for me or no in general...maybe they grow 'out' away from the airway and not in...

Well, I thought I had given her her medicine last night, but this morning, there it was peering out from two pieces of pill pocket. I don't know how I missed it last night and it didn't look digested (like it came back up later), I was really tired, but I don't miss things like that. Well, evidently I do.

Anyway, I just gave it another try..this time I placed half the pill on her plate, ran a fork under water and began to make a bitter pill soup...I was surprised and just how little it was (certainly I can sneak this past her), added some wet food, just a bit to make sure she ate it ALL and she pretty much did I think..I added some more and mixed it some more and she ate that up too...there are always remnants of the food on the sides, but I am thinking positive that she ingested it all..

The only thing is, it was a new flavor of wet, so that could be the reason it was hidden well, time will tell...
I am definitely going to have to keep a steady supply of variety...the thing is I only feed wellness grain free...another thing to research...other grain free...well there is NV I think too...plus I feed raw and may even make something one of these days...!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
If she likes raw(mine don't)I would go for that for sure..I can give them a couple of little chunks of raw beef,or chicken,but they only eat very little,Chico not at all.
As for the pill,for a long time now,I put a drop of water in his bowl and mash the pill with one tbsp of food and he'll lap it all up,whatever goes on the side of the dish,I scrape down,to make sure he gets all of the pill.
After that he gets the rest of the food,I have had no problems.
Apparently the Tapazole has a terrible taste.
When I gave Rocky antibiotics,it came in a small capsule,it was very easy just to drop it in his mouth.
I too was told the enlarged Thyroid does not hinder his breathing.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 12:16 AM
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Mad Catter Do you have the reference range for the T4 listed on the results? I don't have an actual range for US values but by calculation the US units 9.9 is SI (cdn) units 128 that's is fairly high - CDN value ref range for normal is 18-40.

Some reading for HyperT & treatment options:

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=138

On medication
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Con...&S=0&C=0&A=510

An overall view:
http://www.2ndchance.info/hyperthyroid.htm

http://www.fabcats.org/owners/hyperthyroidism/info.html

RaId is only available in a few clinics across Canada & the US. It is expensive (cost me $1300CDN) but when you compare that to the cost of years of medication, Drs appts, blood tests for rechecking levels - it works out to be either around the same amount or cheaper.

This site is full of information on RaId - this is the clinic in Vancouver BC I went to for my grrl's treatment, it is the only thing they do http://www.iodinecafe.com/

There is another alternative treatment for HyperT - homeopathic remedies prescribed by a Homeopath Vet working to treat the symptoms of the whole cat not just one issue.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
I am worried maddie's thyroid(s) is larger than normal too...I can't see it, but I can 'see' her purring and I don't think I ever used too (but, then again, perhaps I am now 'looking' for things

I did ask the doc about the size and if could possibly block the airway and she said no...not sure if she meant no for me or no in general...maybe they grow 'out' away from the airway and not in...
Most people think the thyroid gland is high up in the neck around the vocal cords (about where her middle finger is in the pic), when infact it is lower as shown here:
Name:  hyperthyroidism2.jpg
Views: 393
Size:  11.7 KB

I think where you are "seeing her purring" could be her voice box, I made that assumption once then my vet showed my where exactly the thyroid gland is. The next time you have Maddie in for a check ask the Dr to show you exactly where the Thyroid gland is and let you feel it, normally is it very small and almost undectable of course having high numbers will make it enlarged and noticable to the touch.

No it won't affect their breathing unless it is very very large.

Quote:
I am sure she will wise up to me trying to sneak a pill in twice a day. The doc also mentioned a pharmacy here that will make it into a liquid and you can pick pretty much any type of flavor you want...
The compounding of the meds works for some cats, but can be not as effective. Especially if you have a flavour the cat won't eat - just because the flavour says "salmon" doesn't mean that it's actually gonna taste like salmon to a cat

There is also the option of compounded Transdermal meds for HyperT that basically is the medication made into a gel that is placed on the skin inside the ear - the problem with that is the skin is the bodies first line of defence against everything so often it will attack the incoming meds and render them useless.
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 08:28 AM
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Thank you Growler,you are anfor doing this and giving me the reading on Homeopathic meds.
When Rockys neck was shaved,I could clearly see the bump,not quiet as large as the pic.
At one time I thought it was smaller,but my vet said it won't go smaller:sad:
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Old February 22nd, 2009, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Thank you Growler,you are anfor doing this and giving me the reading on Homeopathic meds.
When Rockys neck was shaved,I could clearly see the bump,not quiet as large as the pic.
At one time I thought it was smaller,but my vet said it won't go smaller:sad:
The homeopath remedy mentioned in the article is not necessarily right for every cat. The principle behind homeopathy is based on the individual animal/persons personality, mental state, energy, likes & dislikes, background & home environment and health. Some animals need a combination of remedies and each animal may need a different dosage. In order to have the proper remedy and correct dosage an appointment with a trained animal homeopath is necessary.

Unfortuately no the gland will not shrink in size.
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