Frustated with shelters

[NoahGrey]

Just have to rant about shelters, municipal and some pounds that do not spay or nueture animals before going to a new home. I don't understand how a animal welfare organization can claim that they are into protecting animals, when they are infact contributing to the pet overpopulation, by not having the animals spay/nue before going to their foever home. Giving the adoptees a voucher for it and giving a adoptee a choice is absurd. I think society has proven that getting their pet fixed is not a priority. Just look at all the shelters overcrowed.

Also, the fact that they can send animals to research. Please support the Project Jessie Fund. The project Jessie fund places animals in foster homes that would have been sent to research or will be euth for inapproiate reasons.

www.projectjessie.ca

ACO22

[kathryn]

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/

Animals are apparently second class citizens. If that.

I'm glad my state made it illegal for research people to take animals from shelters. My (county) shelter has a rather morbid history though. Ages ago they used to sell animals to kids at the county college to be dissected and stuff. Luckily that's all illegal now and all the people who used to run the shelter are long gone.

Why does it seem like Canadian shelters are worse then American ones at this point? I can never find statistics for Canadian shelters either. How many are impounded/year in Canada and how many are put down ??

[BenMax]

Kathryn - the worst Canadian statistics for animal control and what actually happens to animals are in the province of Quebec.

Also it is virtual impossible to find out the stats because many shelters, animal controls etc are not sharing the accurate numbers as to how many come in, how many adopted, how many euthanized, how many found by owners. I am certain the US has the same problems.

The laws in Canada are very week unfortunately, and are not government run. Most are 'businesses' or non-profit organizations.

ACO22 - reputable rescues and the SPCAs do infact adopt animals that are sterilized. If a bitch is not sterilized immediately it is because of the heat cycle and honouring the 30 days after sterilization of the female in question.

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by BenMax

ACO22 - reputable rescues and the SPCAs do infact adopt animals that are sterilized. If a bitch is not sterilized immediately it is because of the heat cycle and honouring the 30 days after sterilization of the female in question.

I know that reputable rescues and the OSPCA and it's branches and afflicates do not send animals to research(although I do know of one OSPCA afflicate that did or still does send animals to research) Usually it is the City shelters that give out vouchers (although there are some shelters..yes even spcas that hand out vouchers for spay/Nu) When it comes to an animal in heat. A good SPCA will wait till the heat cycle is over, then spay and then the dog can go to their forever home.

For research, it is usually City run shelters that give animals to research.

And I agree. Ontario is actually the worst when it comes to protecting our animals from cruelty. We are so far behind from other provinces, countries, etc.

ACO22

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by kathryn

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/.

Own and read the book. A must read.

Originally Posted by kathryn

Animals are apparently second class citizens. If that.

You hit it on the mark. Sadly they are not even 'if that'.

I work for a Humane Society. We bring in thousands of animals a year. We do not euth for cage space. We work with rescues, wildlife rehab centers. As of right now, we have over 450 cats in our cat and counting.

ACO22

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by ACO22

And I agree. Ontario is actually the worst when it comes to protecting our animals from cruelty. We are so far behind from other provinces, countries, etc.

ACO22

Actually ACO22 - the third reading of Bill 50 just happened last week, which will give Ontario the best animal protection laws in the country. Not great by any means but better than zilch.

[kathryn]

Originally Posted by ACO22

I work for a Humane Society. We bring in thousands of animals a year. We do not euth for cage space. We work with rescues, wildlife rehab centers. As of right now, we have over 450 cats in our cat and counting.

ACO22

But are you 'open admission' aka animal control?

My 'no kill' shelter has over 200 cats in it's care as well. My county shelter that does most of the animal control work got in about 6,000 animals last year and hardly euthed any. I mean, they kill, but not for stupid reasons. It's really not that hard to become no-kill or even low kill. My county shelter follows the sort of 'no kill' agenda... convenient hours, spay/neuters animals before they go out, has low cost spay/neuter options available, has a great foster care program, utilizes PetSmart luv-a-pet centers, offsite events when they can, handing out literature and putting out donation jars... etc etc. It obviously works since we have the lowest kill rate in New Jersey. AND we probably get more 'unadoptable' animals in then any other shelter. We're contract to take in animals from Camden, which is 'nuff said if you know the deal with Camden. (google Camden NJ).

If everyone would just work together and perhaps if the government would invest some $$ into saving instead of killing animals, we could have done alot better.


Another example is Spalding County Animal Control in Griffin, GA. Before their kill rate was 90%+. A few years ago, a rescue group called Winging Cat Rescue formed and stepped in to help. If a few women, a couple foster homes, a MySpace page and 2 transport vehicles can make the kill rate at that shelter drop to 5-10% in about 5 years, that really shows something. The shelter still gasses unfortunately, but their adoptions have skyrocketed from this rescue group getting the word out and providing s/n+rabies vac. vouchers out of their own pockets, it really goes to show how extremely easy it is to fix the problem

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by kathryn

But are you 'open admission' aka animal control?

Yes Kathryn, we are an open admission shelter, wheather it be Animal Control bringing them in, Surrenders, etc. We take in ANY animal that comes through our doors, no matter what time of day. We rented two trailers to help with the incoming of stray cats. We even have cats and rabbits/other small animals, in every office, hallwalls, staff bathrooms. We also work with Petsmart and Petcetra. We also have foster programs, humane education programs, etc.

All sick and injured wildlife, that can be rehabilated are driven to one of the best Widlife rehab centers in the country.

ACO22

[chico2]

This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by chico2

This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

It does seem that they have more resources in the US Chico. Here they carry equipment to help injured animals also.

I would say more power in the US, it seems from watching those shows that a lot of them carry guns which makes them somewhat more intimidating. Here now they carry animal repellant (pepper spray) and batons, but up until 6 months ago not even that. Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Other Provinces

[kathryn]

Originally Posted by chico2

This might only be happening on TV(Animal-Planet)but it seems to me the SPCA rescues in the US have more resources,more power,more staff,better rescue-vehicles etc...than we do in Canada,like I said it might just be the rescues on TV
The rescue in Phoenix even have equipment to treat injured animals in their trucks,I think that's fantastic.
Am I just being fooled in to thinking the US have a better system???

You are just being fooled. Down South (Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina specifically), 'animal control' consists of a guy, a pickup truck and a gas chamber.

Some places are lucky to have things like that. My county has several animal control officers and several shelters. They are equipped for some emergencies but not much.

My county shelter runs on about $500,000 a year for 6,000 animals. Only 150,000 is from the county. The government does not care about animal shelters or animals.

[kiara]

I really don't know how municipal pounds operate, (each town has its own rules) but they should check for a microchip first, in case it is a lost animal. If they really send animals to research isn't there money involved? I did not think that pounds did that? There are a lot of very good rescue groups in Montreal. (They are unpaid volunteeres and they do the best they can with few financial resources) They adopt out only spayed and neutered animals. The new prospective owners are also screened. I think you should be frustrated with pet shops that sell unnutered animals for profit and also the government gets a cut, for sales tax. These stores keep the puppy mills and kitten mills on full going basis and making them a lot of money.

[Karin]

DO not get me started here. I see way to many false reports here. Know what you post before you hit the button.

[chico2]

Karin,I realize what I see on TV,is just that,TV,usually from Houston,Phoenix and New York City,most of the time with happy ending stories.
If these shows bring awareness to people,awareness of animal-abuse,puppy-mills etc...plus donations,they are not a bad thing,IMO.

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by Karin

DO not get me started here. I see way to many false reports here. Know what you post before you hit the button.

Could you be more specific.

Originally Posted by ACO22

Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

Actually they are puncture resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22

Which shelter do you work at ACO22?

[kathryn]

Originally Posted by ACO22

Actually they are not Bullet proof. I am assume you are talking about the vests that have been issued by the OSPCA. While they do look like bullet proof vest, they are not. They are knife resistant.

We always laugh at the shelter, saying that lets hope, someone doesn't answer the door with a gun, cause we would be in trouble.

ACO22

......What's the point of a knife resistant vest? Do people get stabbed alot in Canada?

Okay, so here is a question. What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada? It seems to vary from place to place. In my state, an ACO is the person who collects the stray and injured animals and brings them back to the designated shelter. However, down south, the ACO is the person who collects the animals, but not only that, they run the shelter, do all the paperwork and are the ones to decide which animals to kill and is the one to kill them!

It's all rather backwards....

[BenMax]

It various from province to province and municipality to municipality. There is no standard, nor are they regulated.

And no, people do not usually get shot or stabbed around here, but there is always precautions I suppose or these vests were given to them due to over production.

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by kathryn

......What's the point of a knife resistant vest? Do people get stabbed alot in Canada?

Canada as a whole Kathryn In Toronto lately there seems to have been quite a few, seems that most of it is gang related from what I read in the papers.

Okay, so here is a question. What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada? It seems to vary from place to place. In my state, an ACO is the person who collects the stray and injured animals and brings them back to the designated shelter. However, down south, the ACO is the person who collects the animals, but not only that, they run the shelter, do all the paperwork and are the ones to decide which animals to kill and is the one to kill them!

It's all rather backwards....

I guess it varies throughout Canada, the same as in the US. Our local SPCA which is also the biggest in Ontario covers animal control for two of the Municipalities in the area. Their function is to collect strays and any wildlife in distress. They are then brought to the shelter where they are scanned for a microchip or any other identifying information (ie tags etc.,), if any is found the owners are contacted. The shelter then holds them the specified time (each municipality has their own guidelines that they want adhered to) then they are placed for adoption. It is not the decision of the Animal Control Officer to decide who is fit for adoption, that decision is made by shelter staff.

I think too that this thread is getting crosswired with Animal Control and Investigations, which are two different departments. A lot of the shows we watch on the Animal Planet cover both. Going by these shows Cruelty Agents in the US have way more power vested in them than here in Ontario. I cannot speak for the rest of Canada.

ACO22 - before you wish to correct any of what I have written above this is the way things are run at our SPCA branch.

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

ACO22 - before you wish to correct any of what I have written above this is the way things are run at our SPCA branch.

Ok, I guess I was going on your quote here

Originally Posted by Chris21711

Here now, they wear bullet proof vests. This was all made possible from the ONE TIME grant from the Provincial Government of $5 million this year.

Seems like it is a bit too generalized here in the quote.

Originally Posted by kathryn

What is the function of an Animal Control officer in Canada?

An ACO rescues sick/injured domestic and wildlife. They pick strays. Alot also enforce the animal-related bylaws in their city...bylaws such as dogs running at large, dogs off leash, etc. They also help out with wildlife issues, educate the public on responsible pet ownership.

Animal Cruelty Investigator: deals with animal cruelty. (while they can also help with the above, they usually only deal with the cruelty aspect)

While I know many SPCA'S have both titles. They do both Animal Control and Animal Cruelty. The shelter that I work for does. To become an Agent (Animal Cruelty Investigator) in Ontario, you must be accepted in the OSPCA training course. Which is currently 2 weeks. Use to be only a week course.

ACO22

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by ACO22

Ok, I guess I was going on your quote here

Seems like it is a bit too generalized here in the quote.

Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

Sorry I don't understand what you mean.

In your post you had referred to the use of bullet proof vets as "here now". As in you were referring to all of Ontario? Since it seems like the OSPCA has handed out different vests for different SPCA's, instead of "here now", maybe "at the shelter that I work for/know" would have been better?

But I do agree with you that Canada does have less resources then our neighbours. It is frustating..isnt?

ACO22

[Chris21711]

Originally Posted by ACO22

"at the shelter that I work for/know" would have been better?

Would it?
ACO22

To the best of my knowledge ALL agents in Ontario have been equipped with the same defensive equipment. Not Animal Control Officers but Agents

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by Chris21711

To the best of my knowledge ALL agents in Ontario have been equipped with the same defensive equipment. Not Animal Control Officers but Agents

I understand what you are saying, however the vests that we have at our shelter are not bullet proof. And yes, only Agents can wear the vest.

[BenMax]

In this province (Quebec) Animal Control and SPCAs/Shelters have two separate mandates and work in two different capacities. Here - Animal Control is a bad word as far as animal welfare is concerned. Inspectors and Animal Control is also very separate. It just goes to show how different we are just cross the 'line'.

[Chris21711]

Animal Control also covers by-law infractions, i.e. barking, too many animals, dogs or cats running at large. They work with the by-law officers of the municipality that they are under contract to.....This is in my neck of the woods.

[NoahGrey]

Originally Posted by BenMax

In this province (Quebec) Here - Animal Control is a bad word as far as animal welfare is concerned. .

I think you will find that all across the board here, in Canada. It really is sad. Our goal is too protect every animal and give it a second chance. Rescue the lost, abused, distress, sick, injured and the whole time thinking "what is the best interest for this animal" and hopefully give them justice in the end.

However, I have been getting alot more Thank you's from the public. Maybe slowly things are turning around?

ACO22

[BenMax]

Originally Posted by ACO22

I think you will find that all across the board here, in Canada. It really is sad. Our goal is too protect every animal and give it a second chance. Rescue the lost, abused, distress, sick, injured and the whole time thinking "what is the best interest for this animal" and hopefully give them justice in the end.

However, I have been getting alot more Thank you's from the public. Maybe slowly things are turning around?

ACO22

When you start getting those thank you's - it's proof that citizens are seeing change. It's also those thank you's that encourage our animal 'workers' to not get frustrated and keep plugging away.

[kiara]

Sorry Karin, but these are the facts that there are very good rescues in Quebec !!! There were several bad ones, but they do not "rescue" anymore. At the same time, I don't know anything about bullit proof vests, they are not needed here in Quebec, because it is not a crime to abandon, abuse or neglect an animal. For everyone who lives outside this province QUEBEC IS THE WORST FOR ANIMAL ABUSE, NEGLECT AND ABANDONMENT IN THE THE WHOLE OF NORTH AMERICA, THERE ARE APPARENTLY 2,000 PUPPY MILLS IN THIS PROVINCE, WHICH IS A TOTAL DISGRACE. I know that a lot of people with paid jobs like to complain and point fingers. Unless you actually do something about it, ( donations of money, which is desperately needed, doing clinics, driving animals to vet appointments, doing fundraisers, fostering, trapping and releasing etc....), you are just talking. Talk is cheap and it does not help animals!!!

[Karin]

Originally Posted by kiara

Sorry Karin, but these are the facts that there are very good rescues in Quebec !!! There were several bad ones, but they do not "rescue" anymore. At the same time, I don't know anything about bullit proof vests, they are not needed here in Quebec, because it is not a crime to abandon, abuse or neglect an animal. For everyone who lives outside this province QUEBEC IS THE WORST FOR ANIMAL ABUSE, NEGLECT AND ABANDONMENT IN THE THE WHOLE OF NORTH AMERICA, THERE ARE APPARENTLY 2,000 PUPPY MILLS IN THIS PROVINCE, WHICH IS A TOTAL DISGRACE. I know that a lot of people with paid jobs like to complain and point fingers. Unless you actually do something about it, ( donations of money, which is desperately needed, doing clinics, driving animals to vet appointments, doing fundraisers, fostering, trapping and releasing etc....), you are just talking. Talk is cheap and it does not help animals!!!

And...you are addressing me, why? I stated don't get me started, for a reason. And there are false reports here. Nothing else.
Yes, talk is cheap, I see a lot of it. Are you questioning what I have done to help animals?
Go ahead chickie, I can run you around the block and then some.
I am adult enough, I do not or will not bow up with a badge like Barny Fife (with only one issued bullet, in his pocket) and strut the walk.
Show me your proof on the mills..cough it up. We have problems here times a megatude, I have seen it so bad I can shower until my skins ripples and I still cannot feel clean, forget about the nightmares. They follow you no matter what.
I worked animal control/ rabies control too. I have been shot at and had a shot gun aimed at my forehead in a stand off after only being employed for 3 weeks.

Keep yaking, I'm listening. P.S., I have some shoes you can borrow if you want to walk in them.